Company hired to build US "Border Fence"

[avant1963]

Illegals.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6626823

Border Fence Firm Snared for Hiring Illegal Workers

A fence-building company in Southern California agrees to pay nearly $5 million in fines for hiring illegal immigrants. Two executives from the company may also serve jail time. The Golden State Fence Company's work includes some of the border fence between San Diego and Mexico.

After an immigration check in 1999 found undocumented workers on its payroll, Golden State promised to clean house. But when followup checks were made in 2004 and 2005, some of those same illegal workers were still on the job. In fact, U-S Attorney Carol Lam says as many as a third of the company's 750 workers may have been in the country illegally.

Golden State Fence built millions of dollars' worth of fencing around homes, offices, and military bases. Its president and one of its Southern California managers will pay fines totaling $300,000. The government is also recommending jail time for Melvin Kay and Michael McLaughlin, probably about six months.

It is exceptionally rare for those who employ illegal immigrants to face any kind of criminal prosecution, let alone jail time. Earlier this week, for example, immigration raids on six meat-packing plants netted almost 1,300 suspected illegal workers. But no charges were leveled against the company that runs the plants: Swift.

Golden State Fence's attorney, Richard Hirsch, admits his client broke the law. But he says the case proves that construction companies need a guest-worker program.

What a surprise. Fining companies and putting CEOs that knowingly look the other way (or implicit in their hiring) when hiring illegal immigrants is what will stop the flow. NOT building a fence around the US.

Show me a 8 foot fence, and I'll show you a 10 foot ladder.

[Camino LS6]

Unreal.

[CSpec]

God this fence is such a waste of money. I don't understand the recent anti-immigrant stance of people in this country anyway.

[Satty]

Republican candidates were making a huge deak out of immigration during the election and the talk seems to have stuck. Jobs are being shipped overseas so the job market sucks and people find it easy to blame immigrants instead of the companies who hire then or ship jobs overseas or the government that hasn't done much to keep jobs here.

[CARBIZ]

I don't think Boston or Rochester needs to worry about it just yet.

[CSpec]

Whatever you say. Worry about what? Cheap labor? Immigrants doing jobs that most mainstay Americans would never do? Improving American terms of trade? Making Americans wealthier on average?

This paper summarizes it well:

http://www.econ.rochester.edu/Faculty/jone...ration%20vs.pdf

[regfootball]

i got no problem with LEGAL immigrants paying taxes and not sucking off the government tit.

Edited December 16, 2006 by regfootball

[CARBIZ]

Read the book by Daniel Stoffman: "Who Gets In." He spent his Atkinson Fellowship studying Canadian Immigration for the past 10 years. Very interesting reading. It dispells the myths that the immigration industry has entrenched in our media and so-called chattering classes. And make no mistake: there is an entire industry on both sides of our borders that include doctors, lawyers and other academics whose livelihoods depend on the constant inflow of immigrants.

It cost me and my partner over $5,000 to legally "land" him in Canada from Brazil, so we contributed to that industry. But I have lived both sides of this issue and I can SEE with my own eyes what it is doing to Canada. Our much smaller population makes Canada far more sensitive to the recent influx; however, the millions of Mexicans and Central Americans landing on America's shores is having about the same net effect.

It is interesting that the results of 9/11 are that the subject is finally being broached, albeit in the guise of "national security" issues and Liberals are having to acquiesce about the situation to a point; however, when watching Fox News and others, the Elephant in the Room that no one quite dares speak about yet is that the recent immigrants are not integrating, as previous generations have, but they are profoundly changing the fabric of the communities in which they have moved.

The world has changed, thanks to the internet, $5 phone cards, internet banking and cheap airfare. A husband can fly here from a desperately poor country, such as Somalia, work for 3 years, not pay a dime in taxes, then return to his country a rich man. He need not learn anything about our culture, not even the language, he can send all his money back to his family, use free medical clinics, obtain false I.D. (very easily done), even form a "company" so he can receive legal cheques from unsuspecting companies.

Don't talk to me about immigration. Many of my friends are illegals and I know how easy it is to abuse our system because we are stupid and allow it.

[Croc]

The government just doesn't get it...

[Chris_Doane]

Well this was the joke all the comedians were making when this idea passed in Congress. People like Bill Maher were saying "who do you think is going to build the fence!?!"

Can't say I'm surprised to see it come true.

[Intrepidation]

That's damn irony right there.

I hate illegal immigrants. I have no problem with LEGAL immigrants.

[Enzora]

Once again . . . most illegal immigrants DO pay taxes to the US.

Illegal immigration has plenty of good and bad effects for our country; it's just that since our economy's not as strong right now, the negatives are felt more strongly than before.

Everybody's gotta have a scapegoat.

[Satty]

Everybody's gotta have a scapegoat.

228589[/snapback]

Couldn't have said it better.

[Cory Wolfe]

Haha...

[Flybrian]

I'm more worried about some Indian taking a job than a Mexican.

[PurdueGuy]

A few nights ago I enjoyed a story from a coworker about when he crossed the border. Pretty sure he's legal by now, though - he's been in the US for like 15-20 years, has family & stuff, and has worked in places that would definitely do background checks & such. He's a really smart, kind, hard working guy, and one of the best coworkers I have.

Maybe we should install a gate in the fence with some sort of intelligence test - let all the smart people cross the border.

[Satty]

Only if we c an send the dumb Americans to Mexico.

[ocnblu]

Mexico needs to do more to keep their people home, to build a stronger Mexico, instead of leaching off of us. I have no problem with US automakers' plants down there, because I know the engineering profits come back home to our country. The Mexican government needs to somehow create a better work environment for their people so more of them are willing to stay home and build their communities.

[balthazar]

>>"most illegal immigrants DO pay taxes to the US."<<

And how could that possibly be proven??

No papers, no legal existance, no English, but they know how to thumb a ride to the post office to pick up their 1040s so they can send 30% of their $80/day to the government. Uhhhhhh, sure.

[loki]

The government just doesn't get it...

228575[/snapback]

and what else is new... other than military spending it could be all seen as useless by lots of the early heroes of this country.

know what i mean?

[FAPTurbo]

Only if we c an send the dumb Americans to Mexico.

228646[/snapback]

You should. We send all our unemployed and dumb Canadians to Buffalo and Windsor.

[razoredge]

Id like to see all the pro imigration people identify themselves. As in - what part of town they live, what tax bracket they are in, AGE ! , nationality, what professions they are in. Its easy to make all these blanket statements when there is no way in hell you have been effected or around long enough to see the early results.

legal immigrants pay little in taxes what an ignorant statement. Not to mention that this immigration thing is the biggest problem with our SSI and then there all the law suits......you know the American legal process lottery....insurance jack pot....some illegals family was awarded over a million for him being shot in a hunting accident while trespassing on private land in a country he had no business being in........ I would have hunted the rest of the family till there was no one left to sue........though that could typically take hundreds of bullets........

These other nationalities as well as some of our welfare own, need to learn to pull it out and stop thinking their purpose on earth is being a baby factory........with American social services this all seems so easy but when you have to feed, cloth and house them from your own paycheck it reveils another story. One of survival of the fittest and the wisest. Just think about the next unicef commercial you see.......with all the babys playing in their own sewage, ah poor pathatic ones..........NO ! PULL IT OUT YOU STUPID BASTARDS ! If you can only feed one or two children thats all you have DUMB ASS ! Something just doesnt sit right when you see footage of a shanty town with hundreds of infants and few adults............DUH ! Or the huge Mexican family buying a big cart of groceries with fathers minimum wage paycheck.........yarite !

Lastly the fence is a very stupid idea, a great waste of money.

We have a trailor park locally that had Coyotes roaming through even in the middle of day, like they owned the place. Well they shot a few and now the Coyotes know enough "to stay the hell away from there". Everything is a learning process. If a child never gets away with mischieveness it will quickly learn right from wrong and stay away from the stuff that gets it scolded. Left to run free, wild and do as they please they become problems most of their lives. Its a learning process. Shoot the first few hundred illegals in the first week or two and its a good bet the problem will go away. Anyone having a problem with that can move to Mexico, India, Turkey, China...where ever ... and teach them the advantages of PULLING IT OUT !!!!!!! Then their massive populations will shrink and they will no longer feel the need to overpopulate our country and create an environment where our children need to compete with them for college grants and jobs.

[Sixty8panther]

Republican candidates were making a huge deak out of immigration during the election and the talk seems to have stuck.  Jobs are being shipped overseas so the job market sucks and people find it easy to blame immigrants instead of the companies who hire then or ship jobs overseas or the government that hasn't done much to keep jobs here.

228535[/snapback]

for once I agree with you... although it is NOT just

Republicans who are to blame. This country is

going to hell in a handbasket and BOTH the liberal

Democrats & uptight Republicans are to blame.

Politicians in general have failed us.

[CSpec]

Id like to see all the pro imigration people identify themselves. As in - what part of town they live, what tax bracket they are in, AGE ! , nationality, what professions they are in. Its easy to make all these blanket statements when there is no way in hell you have been effected or around long enough to see the early results.

legal immigrants pay little in taxes what an ignorant statement. Not to mention that this immigration thing is the biggest problem with our SSI and then there all the law suits......you know the American legal process lottery....insurance jack pot....some illegals family was awarded over a million for him being shot in a hunting accident while trespassing on private land in a country he had no business being in........   I would have hunted the rest of the family till there was no one left to sue........though that could typically take hundreds of bullets........

These other nationalities as well as some of our welfare own, need to learn to pull it out and stop thinking their purpose on earth is being a baby factory........with American social services this all seems so easy but when you have to feed, cloth and house them from your own paycheck it reveils another story. One of survival of the fittest and the wisest. Just think about the next unicef commercial you see.......with all the babys playing in their own sewage, ah poor pathatic ones..........NO ! PULL IT OUT YOU STUPID BASTARDS ! If you can only feed one or two children thats all you have DUMB ASS ! Something just doesnt sit right when you see footage of a shanty town with hundreds of infants and few adults............DUH ! Or the huge Mexican family buying a big cart of groceries with fathers minimum wage paycheck.........yarite !

Lastly the fence is a very stupid idea, a great waste of money.

We have a trailor park locally that had Coyotes roaming through even in the middle of day, like they owned the place. Well they shot a few and now the Coyotes know enough "to stay the hell away from there". Everything is a learning process. If a child never gets away with mischieveness it will quickly learn right from wrong and stay away from the stuff that gets it scolded. Left to run free, wild and do as they please they become problems most of their lives. Its a learning process. Shoot the first few hundred illegals in the first week or two and its a good bet the problem will go away. Anyone having a problem with that can move to Mexico, India, Turkey, China...where ever ... and teach them the advantages of PULLING IT OUT !!!!!!! Then their massive populations will shrink and they will no longer feel the need to overpopulate our country and create an environment where our children need to compete with them for college grants and jobs.

228844[/snapback]

What nationality are you? How did your family get to this country?

[razoredge]

What nationality are you? How did your family get to this country?

228859[/snapback]

Why would you ask me this question and not identify yourself.............?

I have no problem with answering but somehow you offered nothing.

My family was never handed a social services check, has been here 150 years, served the countries military, starved in the great depression, struggled on snow drifted farms to get by the rightous way, sacrificed during the World Wars, worked hard in factories or in the field to build a better stronger America as well as serving the community the state and the Church.

They did not simply walk across some line and have babies they could not afford just to gain "legal immigrant" status, buy a gas station with community money to play some tax game with and retire rich in the "homeland", nor harbor illegals for cheap abusive labor

No free rides here..............so hows abouts yourself ?

[wpbharry]

Ray-zar sweetie, please tell us....when exactly did you drop out of formal schooling? 11th grade? 10th?......maybe 7th.....yikes.

When exactly did you lose your job in....steel? construction site clean up? janitorial arts?

That trailer park you mention? Your home?

Edited December 17, 2006 by wpbharry

[Chris_Doane]

It sure is a good thing visitors to this website can't see the lounge.

[razoredge]

Ray-zar sweetie, please tell us....when exactly did you drop out of formal schooling? 11th grade? 10th?......maybe 7th.....yikes.

When exactly did you lose your job in....steel? construction site clean up? janitorial arts?

That trailer park you mention? Your home?

228876[/snapback]

you funny, but please tell us about yourself.........I pointed no fingers at anyone........nor made inferior implications......we have laws in this country which I must abide..........we also have immigration laws......whats the problem........lack of formal education ?

[razoredge]

It sure is a good thing visitors to this website can't see the lounge.   

228877[/snapback]

really! some of your topics are a bit unconventional.......... :AH-HA_wink:

[Chris_Doane]

really! some of your topics are a bit unconventional.......... :AH-HA_wink:

228885[/snapback]

Yes, REALLY.

Unconvential, perhaps. However I don't remember saying anything along the lines of:

some illegals family was awarded over a million for him being shot in a hunting accident while trespassing on private land in a country he had no business being in........   I would have hunted the rest of the family till there was no one left to sue........though that could typically take hundreds of bullets........

Shoot the first few hundred illegals in the first week or two and its a good bet the problem will go away. Anyone having a problem with that can move to Mexico, India, Turkey, China...where ever ...

The worst thing is you probably believe that those are good ideas. Older = wiser? Certainly not in this thread.

Edited December 17, 2006 by CD/BP

[Flybrian]

I can name about a thousand American citizens I'd shoot first...

[wpbharry]

you funny, but please tell us about yourself.........I pointed no fingers at anyone........nor made inferior implications......we have laws in this country which I must abide..........we also have immigration laws......whats the problem........lack of formal education ?

228881[/snapback]

So in other words, Im right on all counts. Thanks hon, thats what I thought. *kisses*

Edited December 17, 2006 by wpbharry

[Enzora]

Google is your friend. For example, you can correct major misconceptions of major issues in less than five minutes, by finding articles with valuable information.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...-2004Aug25.html

The study acknowledged that, on average, the costs that illegal-immigrant households bear on the federal government are less than half that of other households, and that many of those costs relate to their U.S.-born children. It also pointed out that tax payments by illegal-immigrant households constitute one-fourth those of other households because of low-income jobs.

"With nearly two-thirds of illegal aliens lacking a high school degree, the primary reason they create a fiscal deficit is their low education levels and resulting low incomes and tax payments, not their legal status or heavy use of most social services," Camarota said.

The report estimates that granting legal status to illegal immigrants would dramatically increase their cost, causing the net fiscal deficit to rise to nearly $29 billion because, the author argues, unskilled immigrants would have access to more government services while continuing to make modest tax payments.

As I said before, there are good AND bad results of immigration.

The Good: They contribute a LOT to our economy. Unless you like the idea of more expensive products or having to pay twice as much for any given construction project. Illegal immigration is a key part of how our economy works right now. And yes, they do pay taxes. Most can't get jobs without fake documents, so they do pay some, miniscule as it may be.

The Bad: Jobs and burdens to our system. And it's not that they use our welfare systems much, but how they use them. A huge issue is the problem with hospitals, where they use the emergency room, where costs are so much higher, because they can't afford medical treatment any other way. This has especially been a big problem in the southwest, where many hospitals have had to close down for this reason. Of course, this is as much an indictment of how our medical system is set up as it is about immigration.

The Ugly: Similar to the good, actually. Instead of getting any real improvement, both America and Mexico (and other countries, illegal immigrants do come from other places, ya know) become heavily entrenched into a flawed system that creates a lots of long-term economic problems. As Blu said, what we really need is for these other countries to develop their own economies, but that's highly unlikely as long as we continue to use them in this manner.

Am I necessarily for immigration? No. But as I've said before, it's a complex issue, and one that sure as hell isn't going to be solved by saying "go back home and close your legs." Blaming a poor immigrant looking for a better life, especially given the fact that the immigration quotas are RIDICULOUSLY low when compared to the amount of jobs available to would-be immigrants, is just a waste of time.

Edit: 21, college student (sociology major ) family's middle-class in a rural area where there are lots of illegal immigrants for farming.

Edited December 17, 2006 by Enzora

[Cadillacfan]

You should. We send all our unemployed and dumb Canadians to Buffalo and Windsor. 

228806[/snapback]

Normally, I would take offense to that, but you're absolutely right! So many dumb Canadians live here. I mean, WHAT THE HELL MAN?!?! Buffalo is in an economic depression and they keep coming. I think it's all that fresh air.

[razoredge]

Yes, REALLY.

Unconvential, perhaps. However I don't remember saying anything along the lines of:

The worst thing is you probably believe that those are good ideas. Older = wiser? Certainly not in this thread.

228888[/snapback]

Well those ideas dont work in todays society for obvious and pouty pathatic bleeding heart reasons. However there can be no question as to whether or not it would work, and how swiftly and inexpensively. The fence certainly will not work.

As for the law suit. Myself personally I would consider a law suit against myself as an act of aggression which is ?............war. Any invasive action in fact I would consider an act of war. In war we have casualities. There can be no denying that if theres no remaining survivors there is no one left to rip off our already out of control insurance system.

Do I believe it is right ? .......get real !

Do I believe any of it is right, like the law suits or some court even considering such a case let alone awarding it ? Hell no I dont. That is why I have my radical views, letting all this BS go unchecked only feeds the frenzy. Im no more wrong than this type of behavior on behalf of our supposedly "no tolerance" bleeding heart society.

There really was a family of illegals awarded this kind of money over a hunting accident and he was trespassing. Wonder if these types of law suits have a negitive effect on tax paying and insurance purchasing native born Americans ? I think its sickening.

[razoredge]

So in other words, Im right on all counts. Thanks hon, thats what I thought.  *kisses*

228896[/snapback]

oh my childish wittle moderator, hiding behind his cute little mockery. GROW UP ! then maybe your "thoughts" will clear and you will be able to process information as its intended.

OK babycakes, now here....... lets

[razoredge]

The study acknowledged that, on average, the costs that illegal-immigrant households bear on the federal government are less than half that of other households, and that many of those costs relate to their U.S.-born children. It also pointed out that tax payments by illegal-immigrant households constitute one-fourth those of other households because of low-income jobs.

Im not being a smart ass here but does anyone really believe this ? I mean swallow it whole ? Id like to know what bias this "study" was conducted and published under. My quess is a bleeding heart throw the doors wide open campaigne.

First it seems to deny that our government spends great fortunes on illegal immigration and immigration.....both the same case anyone wants to forget. They have spent much less since the "war" because little dewy needs the money for his war. None the less much is being spent.......that may be part of the topic, something about buidling a wall.

Second if they mean to imply that because illegals cant sign up for welfare places them at "less than half that of other households"....well either we have a large majority of Americans on welfare...or....we have a larger illegal immigration population than we ever thought.

Id say its a very flawed and interpreted "study"

I mean outside of infrastructure work which we pay taxes for I cant think of anyone I know that "costs our government".

Im surprised no one else realizes that this whole thing is just a big game. I mean the company gets in trouble in 99 and no one keeps an eye on them again until 04...?.........HELLO !

[FAPTurbo]

Normally, I would take offense to that, but you're absolutely right!  So many dumb Canadians live here.  I mean, WHAT THE HELL MAN?!?!  Buffalo is in an economic depression and they keep coming.  I think it's all that fresh air.

228901[/snapback]

[Satty]

Welfare families (even those with a wrecked Solstice in the driveway) cost the government a ton of money. If we put more money into making employers pay a living wage, keep jobs here and train people for advancement it'll ease the burden on the government coming from its own citizens. You'd rather keep out people who want to come here to work and make their lives(and the lives of their families) better than address the fat lazy white trash who do nothing but collect welfare checks and food stamps because they're from here?

[pow]

Why would you ask me this question and not identify yourself.............?

I have no problem with answering but somehow you offered nothing.

My family was never handed a social services check, has been here 150 years, served the countries military, starved in the great depression, struggled on snow drifted farms to get by the rightous way,  sacrificed during the World Wars, worked hard in factories or in the field to build a better stronger America as well as serving the community the state and the Church.

They did not simply walk across some line and have babies they could not afford just to gain "legal immigrant" status, buy a gas station with community money to play some tax game with and retire rich in the "homeland", nor harbor illegals for cheap abusive labor

No free rides here..............so hows abouts yourself ?

228866[/snapback]

Yeah, good for your family. But what did YOU do?

The recent immigrants I see (Los Angeles) are far more hardworking than complacent sixth-generation Americans who just happen to be born here.

[pow]

Shoot the first few hundred illegals in the first week or two and its a good bet the problem will go away. Anyone having a problem with that can move to Mexico, India, Turkey, China...where ever ...

228844[/snapback]

The US should ENCOURAGE immigration from India and China, countries that are killing us in education. Wouldn't you rather have them working under the US camp, so that we can reap their economic and academic achievements?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/12/14/...C-SearchStories

[pow]

Welfare families (even those with a wrecked Solstice in the driveway) cost the government a ton of money.  If we put more money into making employers pay a living wage, keep jobs here and train people for advancement it'll ease the burden on the government coming from its own citizens.  You'd rather keep out people who want to come here to work and make their lives(and the lives of their families) better than address the fat lazy white trash who do nothing but collect welfare checks and food stamps because they're from here?

228940[/snapback]

Exactly. America doesn't have the incentive or the motivation for the future. Starving nations realize the potential of pushing out little Einsteins, while we focus on football and reality shows instead. The value for education in our culture just isn't there.

Instead we blame equally-qualified immigrants for taking our God-given right to a job.

Edited December 17, 2006 by empowah

[ZL-1]

Kinda ironic that the company that is supposed to build the fence used illegal immigrants. Kinda funny too.

[razoredge]

Welfare families (even those with a wrecked Solstice in the driveway) cost the government a ton of money.  If we put more money into making employers pay a living wage, keep jobs here and train people for advancement it'll ease the burden on the government coming from its own citizens.  You'd rather keep out people who want to come here to work and make their lives(and the lives of their families) better than address the fat lazy white trash who do nothing but collect welfare checks and food stamps because they're from here?

228940[/snapback]

I agree except the part about immigration. Ive said many times I want to see them build their own countries, prove their worth.

I did say this "These other nationalities as well as some of our welfare own, need to learn to pull it out and stop thinking their purpose on earth is being a baby factory" which incidently reaches far and beyond the "fat lazy white trash" but going there would place us in jeopardy of prejudice. :AH-HA_wink: I hate the white welfares equally as I do those who ignore our immigration laws as well as the laws themselves and cost our system so much money and keep our wages artificially low.

empowah - I busted my ass since I got out of school for low wage jobs providing my fellow countryman with products they wanted and needed. Eventually I statred my own buisiness busting my ass and struggling for years, once again providing my fellow countryman with the raw product needed for high quality paper, an industry that migrated south of the border in 2000. Since then I have continued my hard laborous ways for many companys.

I mean I might be wrong here but beside working hard, paying tax's and at one time living in the American dream I dont think there was much else I could have done. I was to young to either become a junkie or die in Vietnam

[razoredge]

Exactly. America doesn't have the incentive or the motivation for the future. Starving nations realize the potential of pushing out little Einsteins, while we focus on football and reality shows instead. The value for education in our culture just isn't there.

Instead we blame equally-qualified immigrants for taking our God-given right to a job.

228949[/snapback]

Your streaching it here. Our education system and its employees for the most part SUCK. Then their liberal views along with our "no tolerance" bleeding heart, cry baby, soccor moms and their pussy wipped what every you say honey husbands creating an everything goes society makes it very hard (maybe impossible) for parents to keep their children focused.

Other nationalities have their share of "dummies" too.

We've lost the intense disipline but that was always part of the American dream to make things easier for the generations that follow... not the flood of immigration to follow. It has its downside but that seems to be part of the attraction for America. You could just say we are choking on our abused Constitutional rights, but no one would admit to that either due to its contridictory nature.

[Cory Wolfe]

Welfare families (even those with a wrecked Solstice in the driveway) cost the government a ton of money.  If we put more money into making employers pay a living wage, keep jobs here and train people for advancement it'll ease the burden on the government coming from its own citizens.  You'd rather keep out people who want to come here to work and make their lives(and the lives of their families) better than address the fat lazy white trash who do nothing but collect welfare checks and food stamps because they're from here?

228940[/snapback]

The recent immigrants I see (Los Angeles) are far more hardworking than complacent sixth-generation Americans who just happen to be born here.

228941[/snapback]

I agree.

[razoredge]

I agree.

229033[/snapback]

Ah common Vipes, Im not starting anything about anything here but lets be real.........what are you basing your agreement on ?

As another response to the quote from Satty seen here I want to add. I have seen more than my share of lazy ass's in my life. Only one of my problems with keeping a job without getting frustrated to a breaking point. But its not because everyone is a slacker, which is always...............ALWAYS ! implied here by the C&G crowd, its typically the one lazy DMF that creates all the trouble and myself as "the new guy" gets stuck dealing with. I have honestly indulged in the toughest of labors all my life and when finally forced to join the real world work force was impressed to find many other trades that were loaded with ass bustin, long hours, highly skilled, hard working, American born and bred WHITE BOYS !

So stop sterio typing us when you have not even been there.......I know where the majority of slackers go to find refuge............. ...........it aint where the sweat flows.

I have also watched crews of so called hard working alternatives and not been overly impressed. I figured it was a damn good thing they were only recieving minimum wage.

[razoredge]

OK

Fining companies and putting CEOs that knowingly look the other way (or implicit in their hiring) when hiring illegal immigrants is what will stop the flow. NOT building a fence around the US.

This is but one of the highly rational points brought up in this topic. I think it may be incomplete and should say putting CEO's and their hiring personal that knowingly hire illegals into jail.

would be a partial answer to the problem

[trinacriabob]

Has anyone seen that road sign that shows "Illegal Alien crossing." I swear. It exists. It's on the freeway north of San Diego and south of Orange County. Say you are going down the freeway at 65 mph at night and some of these idiots cross 5 lanes of freeway and they become "road kill." Every time I visit So. Cal. and drive down I-5 past this sign, I think about this and it freaks me out. Who's responsible? It's sad. It's a human life. But how many people have "Illegal Alien crossing" in their driver's manuals?

Immigration needs to be calibrated. There are quotas to that effect. They try to balance it between continents and/or countries. I don't know the criteria. There aren't too many spots for Europeans from what I can see. And then, most of the Europeans I know really don't want to come here on a permanent basis any more. Their quality of life has steamed ahead by leaps and bounds. I can't say much about other areas, since I am not in contact with nor knowledgeable of that.

Edited December 18, 2006 by trinacriabob

[Flybrian]

Shoot the first few hundred illegals in the first week or two and its a good bet the problem will go away.

228844[/snapback]

That won't work. These guys tried it...

...and it didn't work for them either.