UAW May Form Merger(s) to Boost Membership

[Variance]

UAW May Form Merger(s) to Boost Membership

The United Auto Workers has not ruled out merging with another union, UAW President Ron Gettelfinger said Thursday.

The comment came during a question-and-answer session Gettelfinger hosted on the union's Web site, UAW.org.

"The UAW has not ruled out merging with other unions," he wrote in response to a question from a union member.

UAW membership fell to 557,000 in 2005 down from 1.5 million 20 years ago. With General Motors Corp. and Ford Motor Co. offering buyouts to more than 70,000 workers, UAW membership is expected to continue to decline.

Industry experts have speculated about a merger that could give the organization more clout. Union leaders have previously dismissed talk of merging. Gettelfinger's statement on Thursday is a significant shift on the issue, said labor expert Jim Hendricks, with Chicago-based law firm Fisher & Phillips.

"I don't think they have a choice," Hendricks said about the UAW joining with another union. "The UAW has lost 67 percent of the membership they had 20 years ago. You can't keep hemorrhaging members and stay in business."

The Detroit News

[aaaantoine]

Okay, so they'd like a merger. But with who? Would they be able to merge internationally with the CAW? Has a union ever done that before? Can a union do that?

They really need to try to get union control of the foreign owned plants. That will... Actually, that would probably just force more jobs out of the country.

[bcs296]

DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE!

Unions have absolutely no place in the global economy of the 21st century.

[FAPTurbo]

Merging the UAW and CAW would be kind of awkward. They used to be together... until they got pissed off at each other and split.

And I notice that the CAW seems to put out much more politically charged bluster than the UAW, likely because of my country's multi party system, with one party almost directly allied with the CAW. If they merged, I doubt a guy like Buzz Hargrove would be sticking around long.

And the CAW has a much different set of cards than the UAW anyway, because of Canada's healthcare, pension plan, etc.

Good to see them panicking. Maybe it'll knock some more sense into them yet.

[AxelTheRed]

Well, as much as everyone is going to hate hearing this, the unions NEED to stay around. If they did disappear, the companies would gradually revert back to the way they used to treat their workers and in less than a decade it would be just as bad as it was years ago. Workers will get sick of it and...BAM...we're back to square one.

Unions aren't something that can be completely unestablished or uninvented, they're a necessary evil and the fact that they exist keeps non-unionized (and of course unionized) companies in line. Does anyone actually think Toyota treats their workers well because they respect them any more than the other guys? Hell no, its the threat of unionization that keeps them from mistreating the workers.

[bcs296]

Well, as much as everyone is going to hate hearing this, the unions NEED to stay around.  If they did disappear, the companies would gradually revert back to the way they used to treat their workers and in less than a decade it would be just as bad as it was years ago.  Workers will get sick of it and...BAM...we're back to square one.

Unions aren't something that can be completely unestablished or uninvented, they're a necessary evil and the fact that they exist keeps non-unionized (and of course unionized) companies in line.  Does anyone actually think Toyota treats their workers well because they respect them any more than the other guys?  Hell no, its the threat of unionization that keeps them from mistreating the workers.

228468[/snapback]

What makes that threat disappear if the UAW disappears? I don't see what is stopping unionization from occurring just because the UAW went away.

Toyota could treat their workers decent because they *gasp* know how to run a company. Argue if you must, it's pointless. They are the ones making money hand over fist and on track to sell more cars than anybody else. GM? Well, not so much.

What a concept. Maybe if GM knew how to run their business, they could be union-less too and save millions of dollars.

Edited December 18, 2006 by bcs296

[AxelTheRed]

What makes that threat disappear if the UAW disappears? I don't see what is stopping unionization from occurring just because the UAW went away.

Toyota could treat their workers decent because they *gasp* know how to run a company. Argue if you must, it's pointless. They are the ones making money hand over fist and on track to sell more cars than anybody else. GM? Well, not so much.

What a concept. Maybe if GM knew how to run their business, they could be union-less too and save millions of dollars.

229180[/snapback]

Just out of curiousity, exactly what do you have against the UAW or unions in general?

[bcs296]

Just out of curiousity, exactly what do you have against the UAW or unions in general?

229214[/snapback]

American businesses cannot survive when their laborers are being paid $10-30 an hour while their competitors' workers are paid in the cents over in China, India, etc. There is simply no way to compete. The American standard of living is sliding, while that of developing countries is rising. This is more or less inevitable, but of course the union workers either deny that it is happening, or feel that it can continue to happen while they still make $25/hour and have full benefits.

When these companies (GM for instance) need to make changes to compensate, the union strikes. So, said companies can either stop production and go out of business (which obviously never does or will happen), or spend themselves into oblivion on their overpaid workers and die anyway. This isn't the 1950's, 1960's, or 1970's anymore.

I suppose the UAW will just keep losing members and GM will keep making plants outside of the U.S. until there are no manufacturing jobs left in the U.S. That's fine with me since I don't plan to go into that line of work, but it's still going to be a big hit to our economy, not to mention leave hundreds of thousands, if not millions, without jobs.

It's too bad really, but if these workers can't accept the reality of the situation, then the issue will be dealt with in another way.

Edited December 19, 2006 by bcs296

[AxelTheRed]

American businesses cannot survive when their laborers are being paid $10-30 an hour while their competitors' workers are paid in the cents over in China, India, etc. There is simply no way to compete. The American standard of living is sliding, while that of developing countries is rising. This is more or less inevitable, but of course the union workers either deny that it is happening, or feel that it can continue to happen while they still make $25/hour and have full benefits.

When these companies (GM for instance) need to make changes to compensate, the union strikes. So, said companies can either stop production and go out of business (which obviously never does or will happen), or spend themselves into oblivion on their overpaid workers and die anyway. This isn't the 1950's, 1960's, or 1970's anymore.

I suppose the UAW will just keep losing members and GM will keep making plants outside of the U.S. until there are no manufacturing jobs left in the U.S. That's fine with me since I don't plan to go into that line of work, but it's still going to be a big hit to our economy, not to mention leave hundreds of thousands, if not millions, without jobs.

It's too bad really, but if these workers can't accept the reality of the situation, then the issue will be dealt with in another way.

229975[/snapback]

So are you saying that the electricians, milwrights, tinsmiths and so on don't deserve high pay and benefits for what they do?

Besides, if anyone in the automotive industry is overpaid, its the executives. They pay recieved by the skilled tradesmen is pretty equal to the pay they'd recieve working independantly, but if you want to place blame on the folks that are making far too much, look no further than management. General Motors, Ford and probably DaimlerChrysler have far too many people in management and executive positions, which is no secret to anybody, making far too much...especially with the extravangent bonuses they recieve.

But I'm probably even wasting my time, since you already said "I suppose the UAW will just keep losing members and GM will keep making plants outside of the U.S. until there are no manufacturing jobs left in the U.S. That's fine with me since I don't plan to go into that line of work"...so I don't suppose you really give a rat's ass about the workers.

Edited December 19, 2006 by AxelTheRed

[bcs296]

So are you saying that the electricians, milwrights, tinsmiths and so on don't deserve high pay and benefits for what they do?

Those are jobs that, for the most part, can't and won't be outsourced. Their work isn't in jeopardy so they CAN be well paid. Their work is always going to be needed in this country, so it is very valuable.

Besides, if anyone in the automotive industry is overpaid, its the executives.  They pay recieved by the skilled tradesmen is pretty equal to the pay they'd recieve working independantly, but if you want to place blame on the folks that are making far too much, look no further than management.  General Motors, Ford and probably DaimlerChrysler have far too many people in management and executive positions, which is no secret to anybody, making far too much...especially with the extravangent bonuses they recieve.

I'm not arguing on this point -- I definitely agree. I recently read somewhere about how America has an astronomical number of management positions in which the people get paid three figure salaries to sit in an office and go to meetings all day. This is another crime and another area where the Big 2.5 could learn a thing or two from Toyota.

But I'm probably even wasting my time, since you already said "I suppose the UAW will just keep losing members and GM will keep making plants outside of the U.S. until there are no manufacturing jobs left in the U.S. That's fine with me since I don't plan to go into that line of work"...so I don't suppose you really give a rat's ass about the workers.

When business is in the toilet, cuts have to be made. It happens every day and for some reason, union workers think it doesn't apply to them. This is one reason why I hate the unions. When business is sucking and a company can't afford to employ so many workers, they would typically have lay offs. People who work in the IT field for instance are often the first to go, and they are helpless against it even if they worked very hard to maintain the technological backbone of the company. But when a company like GM needs to make wage cuts or change the way it handles benefits in order to save its business, union workers will just whine and strike until GM gives them what they want at the price of the company's ability to save itself from bankruptcy. Notice they don't even have to worry about being LAID OFF thanks to the contracts. The business world would be a mess if everybody could just whine and strike until they got what they wanted.

You might argue that striking forces management to reevaluate it's practices in order to turn business around. GM did that, and for once they realize that it needs products to succeed. In order to develop those good products, they need money. In order to make money, they need good products. It is a vicious circle but now GM has dug themselves into a hole over the past 20-30 years and unfortunately, the industry is more competitive than ever right now.

Edited December 20, 2006 by bcs296

[Ghost Dog]

Foriegn wage levels are only relevant as long as we import. If we stop Importation foriegn wage levels are irrelevant.As all goods would be produced here.

It could be done it just takes the will.

[bcs296]

Very funny.

You're going to have to be a little more realistic. The global economy is here and it's not going anywhere. I think most Americans know from history that isolationism isn't the answer.

Edited December 24, 2006 by bcs296

[Clownzilla]

I could care less about unions. They dug their own grave and it's about to be nailed shut..........by them. I, on the other hand, will keep working for my non-unionized dealer. I will keep paying my portion of my health care while getting paid a fair sum. I will advance based on my hard work and my abilities.........not because I have seniority. If it takes the fact that I will be selling Chinese made GM cars, so be it. At least all my co-workers and I will still have our jobs because we worked with the company, not against it.

[Intrepidation]

The problem is the unions but it's not limited to the unions. Overpaid executives who continue to get bonuses while their company is in turmoil (Delphi) should have their asses fired.

Our incompetent government led by our moron president who can't spell or speak for sh*t, and his vice president "sir shoots-alot" (of friends) only care about themselves, oil, and blowing up other countries in the name of "democracy". We're not even a real democracy. They have yet to do anything about heath care, and the soaring costs of it, and they have yet to do anything about our country's trade regulations.

However, unions are a problem, and what they fail to see is if they keep fighting with their employers, that employer will eventually go out of business because it couldn't make profits due to soaring health care costs, useless workers (job bank), and people who sit around doing nothing because they know they can't be fired because the union will go after the company. If that company goes out of business the bastards will be SOL and be without any sort of pay at all. They need to learn to work better with their company and not against it.

And finally, the companies did a lot of this to themselves. GM, Ford, and Chrysler all hurt themselves with craptastic product in the 70's 80's and even the 90's to an extent. Poor quality, awful platforms, poor reliability, lackluster designs, crude powertrains and abyssal interiors. The difference is now they are making huge efforts to turn themselves around, the unions need to help them out, not hurt them...because we all know the government won't do a damn thing.

Edited February 2, 2007 by Dodgefan