How to buy American

[The O.C.]

This is where figures lie. If you DRIVE the Cobalt and the Corolla (apples to apples) back to back, the Cobalt FEELS the more solid and put together. I am convinced that Toyota puts their cars together so they show up well in the C&D/MT tests, but in the real world, that is a different matter.

Obviously you've got your mind set up.....

The Deltas that I've driven have had a clunky, flexy feel to the chassis......certainly not the "more solid and put together" you describe above......

[CARBIZ]

[sHRUGS] It isn't my mind being made up that is important, it is encouraging people to drive the Cobalt with an open mind. When the customer drives over the same stretch of road with both vehicles, back to back, the deficiencies of the Corolla are striking. Younger people almost universally remark on the lack of power in the Corolla (again, as with many Japanese cars, the engine is designed with manual transmissions in mind) and older people wonder why the car is pitching and shaking so much.

This has proven to be the most effect sales tool I know.

[regfootball]

[sHRUGS] It isn't my mind being made up that is important, it is encouraging people to drive the Cobalt with an open mind. When the customer drives over the same stretch of road with both vehicles, back to back, the deficiencies of the Corolla are striking. Younger people almost universally remark on the lack of power in the Corolla (again, as with many Japanese cars, the engine is designed with manual transmissions in mind) and older people wonder why the car is pitching and shaking so much.

This has proven to be the most effect sales tool I know.

the hardest thing these days is putting buyers in a position to determine empirically for themselves what is the better solution. But, most people don't want the responsibility to make decisions like that themselves. they would prefer to pass the decision making buck to someone with 'credentials' i.e. the media........then if you f@#k up YOUR decision you can pass it off and blame the faceless Consumer Reports or the Ann Jobs' of the world who said you'd like the Toyota better because your skirt didn't get dirty on the door sill when you got in the car.

Like I've said before, my Prizm which still has the same motor in today's Corolla had a deathly inadequate engine for keeping up with real freeway traffic, even with a stick. yet, EVERY car I have driven with a version of the ecotec, stick or automatic, has been a HOOT to drive and has had good power. I have driven like 10 cars with the ecotec i think

Saturn L series with stick

Satun Ion with stick

Saturn Vue with stick

Grand Am with stick

Alero with automatic

Cobalt with stick

Cobalt with automatic

Malibu with automatic

Malibu classic with automatic

Cavalier with stick

HHR 2.4 with automatic

now, its been a groaner in some cars because of no noise abatement. Isolated subframes and bushings and sound insulation and tuning may have done wonders in some of those cars. But I wouldn't have complained about the power in any of them, except maybe the HHR. And there are some heavy cars in that list.

Regarding the Cobalts also, they have had solid chassis and decent bump asorption. The Cobalts I have driven have all been solid feeling. Especially for the price class.

Edited January 5, 2007 by regfootball

[Intrepidation]

the hardest thing these days is putting buyers in a position to determine empirically for themselves what is the better solution. But, most people don't want the responsibility to make decisions like that themselves. they would prefer to pass the decision making buck to someone with 'credentials' i.e. the media........then if you f@#k up YOUR decision you can pass it off and blame the faceless Consumer Reports or the Ann Jobs' of the world who said you'd like the Toyota better because your skirt didn't get dirty on the door sill when you got in the car.

Like I've said before, my Prizm which still has the same motor in today's Corolla had a deathly inadequate engine for keeping up with real freeway traffic, even with a stick. yet, EVERY car I have driven with a version of the ecotec, stick or automatic, has been a HOOT to drive and has had good power. I have driven like 10 cars with the ecotec i think

Saturn L series with stick

Satun Ion with stick

Saturn Vue with stick

Grand Am with stick

Alero with automatic

Cobalt with stick

Cobalt with automatic

Malibu with automatic

Malibu classic with automatic

Cavalier with stick

HHR 2.4 with automatic

now, its been a groaner in some cars because of no noise abatement. Isolated subframes and bushings and sound insulation and tuning may have done wonders in some of those cars. But I wouldn't have complained about the power in any of them, except maybe the HHR. And there are some heavy cars in that list.

Regarding the Cobalts also, they have had solid chassis and decent bump asorption. The Cobalts I have driven have all been solid feeling. Especially for the price class.

What year is your Prizm? Our Prizm has the 1.6 w/ manual. It's no speed demon on the highway but it will go over 90 without much fuss.

[regfootball]

What year is your Prizm? Our Prizm has the 1.6 w/ manual. It's no speed demon on the highway but it will go over 90 without much fuss.

was a 99 with the vvt and 5 speed. it simply wasn't good at speeds above 55 or so. If you needed to accelerate you had to DS to 3rd or 2nd and strip the tranny. in 4th or 5th there was no torque. it was peppy stoplight to stoplight with one person in the car and below maybe 45 or 50.

[Intrepidation]

was a 99 with the vvt and 5 speed. it simply wasn't good at speeds above 55 or so. If you needed to accelerate you had to DS to 3rd or 2nd and strip the tranny. in 4th or 5th there was no torque. it was peppy stoplight to stoplight with one person in the car and below maybe 45 or 50.

My girlfriend and I traveled 1,700 miles from Kansas in it. While it may not have the most power at highway speeds, it did pass fairly well. It's an excellent cruiser, and is stable even at 08-85. The car was also fully loaded with stuff plus 2 cats and us...got 40 mpg too!

For a long time it only had 1st 2nd and 5th along with Reverse...it actually managed quite well with what it had, but the extra gears make a big difference. It's very smooth and refined as well. I will respect Toyota for that drive train if nothing else.

[haypops]

Some interesting comments on older Corollas above. Although I complain about my daughter's present generation Corolla, her older sister's previous generation Corolla was fine. Thanks for reminding me.

[regfootball]

let me put it to you this way. a cobalt felt much more substantial. it felt like a larger more stable car.

[2005 EquinoxLS]

Is that a surprise? The Cobalt coupe I drove while the Equinox was in for service was quite good in my opinion. It was as quiet as my Equinox in most places.

[The O.C.]

What year is your Prizm? Our Prizm has the 1.6 w/ manual. It's no speed demon on the highway but it will go over 90 without much fuss.

All this talk about Corolla being "underpowered" is mindless wishful thinking.....

Car and Driver's recent comparison test showed a Corolla LE with a 5-speed manual (NOT the more powerful XRS version) going from 0-60 in only 7.7secs.......that hardly spells "underpowered" to me.....

The only two Cobalt instrumented tests I've seen (non-SC) were an automatic LS by Car and Driver (8.4sec to 60) and a 5-speed SS sedan by Motor Trend in last year's CoTY competition (7.1sec)

[CARBIZ]

....and again we parade out the same boring "facts" to prove a point that wasn't even argued. NObody buys the 5 spd. in North America, so it doesn't matter a damn if the Corolla 5 spd does 0-60 in 3 seconds. American cars are geared for automatics; Japanese aren't. We know that. That is why Toyotas and Hondas sound like Moulinex machines on acid when they whizz by.

Again (sigh) when someone drives (DRIVES-DRIVES-DRIVES) the Cobalt and Corolla AUTOMATICS back to back, the impressions are striking to say the least. Toyota has closed the gap in 2007, but the Cobalt still feels more solid and quieter at highway speeds, etc.

IN AN AUTOMATIC.

[Robert Hall]

....and again we parade out the same boring "facts" to prove a point that wasn't even argued. NObody buys the 5 spd. in North America, so it doesn't matter a damn if the Corolla 5 spd does 0-60 in 3 seconds. American cars are geared for automatics; Japanese aren't. We know that. That is why Toyotas and Hondas sound like Moulinex machines on acid when they whizz by.

Again (sigh) when someone drives (DRIVES-DRIVES-DRIVES) the Cobalt and Corolla AUTOMATICS back to back, the impressions are striking to say the least. Toyota has closed the gap in 2007, but the Cobalt still feels more solid and quieter at highway speeds, etc.

IN AN AUTOMATIC.

Ugh... compacts with automatics...what an awful combination.