Another one bites the dust.

[Chris_Doane]

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_4817067

Amazing that these guys think being gay is the worst thing ever.

Oh well, he can be Ted Haggard's new boyfriend.

Edited December 11, 2006 by CD/BP

[Croc]

But this guy seems like he handles himself far better than the others. Eh, almost feel badly for him. Couldn't say the same about Haggard. From the article, this guy at least never got political, and that makes me respect him a bit more.

[ocnblu]

This man has thrown his life away in a lot of respects... by not being true to himself. That is a sin. Hating yourself that much must surely be sinful.

[Sixty8panther]

I've been disgusted by relegion for a while now... it's full

of hypocrasy and causes much more harm than good.

I'm all aout spirituality and karma.... relegion is about $.

[the_yellow_dart]

This reminds me of a Dave Chappelle skit - kind of showed how silly hate is by showing self-hate...

A black man is blind, and doesn't know he's black. He starts a KKK chapter, and eventually realizes he's black. He leaves his wife shortly afterwards. When asked why, he says, "She was a n***er lover!"

[Dsuupr]

I've been disgusted by relegion for a while now... it's full

of hypocrasy and causes much more harm than good.

I'm all aout spirituality and karma.... relegion is about $.

226595[/snapback]

Actual definition of religion;

Oxford dictionary definition (theistic): "1 the belief in a superhuman controlling power, esp. in a personal God or gods entitled to obedience and worship. 2 the expression of this in worship. 3 a particular system of faith and worship." Non-Theistic definition: "The word religion has many definitions, all of which can embrace sacred lore and wisdom and knowledge of God or gods, souls and spirits. Religion deals with the spirit in relation to itself, the universe and other life. ...

In everything we do we run across the human factor. Humans tend to screw up even the most beautiful things God has given us. As a Christian, I find it sad that many Christian groups have used Christ's name for human gain.

If you check out the Quaker Churches, you will generally find groups with little concern for the appearance of the church and themselves but rather you will see major concern for others (no matter who they are, where they came from and what they believe), the environment, and Christ.

[Sixty8panther]

Clayton Bigsby was the name.

I loved the gangsta-wannabe guys in the Mustang:

"dude did he justv call us ni&&ers??? ...AWSOME!"

[CARBIZ]

It is ironic how many closeted gay people are attracted to the Church, as if they believe devoting their lives to God will somehow purge them of their "sinful" feelings. Kind of like cutting off your penis because you're ashamed of being a man. Nottgonnahappen.com.

The worst aspect of this is that these closet types become the most rabidly anti-gay rabble rousers out there, spewing all kinds of hate and venom against those of us who are leading productive, happy well-adjusted (well, okay, sort of!) lives.

Franky, in the 21st Century, this totally disgusts me. There is no excuse for this type of behavior in this day and age. Forty or fifty years ago, I can understand people being deep in the closet, but not now.

[aaaantoine]

How does a man make love to a woman if he has no sexual feelings for her?

I don't mean to judge, but if he had to think of someone else to make love to his wife, that's adultery.

The acts he committed with other men are also adultery, as they were committed during his marriage.

The subject of sexuality in this case only distorts the fundamental reasons why this man had to resign. He committed grave sins in a position where he had to serve as a role model.

I know that he seeks forgiveness for what he did, and God will forgive him, even if everyone else won't.

[NDL]

Here's my take on it all:

God is perfect, although man is not. Therefore, when man teaches God's perfection, he is, by default, a hypocrite. For by default, how can something imperfect, teach perfection, without hypocrisy? Should not the teachers' heart and motive come into question, for no one is perfect? I myself am a Christian who, at times, has not acted like one. For there are times when I lost my temper. There are times when I've cussed up-and-down. There are times when I have been impatient. There are times when I haven't acted in a way that was as nice as I could have. Now, I am by no means excusing my behavior, although this must be considered: If I acted 'by the book,' all-of-the-time, I wouldn't be human, for I would be perfect. And so I am sure that there have been, at times, an unbelieving person or two, or Christian or two, who's thought of my person: 'He calls himself a Christian? For surely he's a hypocrite!' Yet, to those who know me, they know I have a sincere, and strong, concern, towards all people. For I believe that each person is significant, and that every life matters. And I have spent much of my adult life, in an effort to reach out to others, that all might know that God loves each and every one of us, and that the hurting and rejected always have a home. But I can be seen in both ways: A hypocrite that cussed while repairing something, or two, a flawed man who does his best in reaching out to others.

Finally, I must also wonder: Why separate yourself, or dislike, God, because of those who purportedly represent Him? What has God to do, with those who represent Him? Did you know that, when Jesus walked the earth, His main problem was with the religious people of His time?

[Croc]

Here we go:

[aaaantoine]

In response to that video:

Way to blame Christianity for all of life's problems. And group Republicans together with Nazis and the KKK.

[Camino LS6]

I had better leave this one alone. :AH-HA_wink:

[FAPTurbo]

Poor kid... Her parents are exploiting her.

I know it doesn't take an eight year old to realize that violence was done in the name of religion, but it takes an older person to omit the fact that the people who lead the crusades and holy wars were nuts, and abused their religion in the pursuit of wealth and power.

[Croc]

In response to that video:

Way to blame Christianity for all of life's problems. And group Republicans together with Nazis and the KKK.

226892[/snapback]

Where did it blame it all on Christianity? I remember it equally blaming all religions. The only times she even mentions Christianity is in a song title "Onward Christian Soldiers" and when she says O'Reilly wants children to go to church and be Christians...and I think that claim would be hard to dispute.

Poor kid... Her parents are exploiting her.

226900[/snapback]

Eh...I don't really see it. It isn't like they are gaining anything from her video. Frankly, I see this as no different than a child picking up on any parents' views and spouting them off.

I thought I was a Republican until college because my family was. I think Clinton was one of the greatest Presidents of the 20th century, but back in 1998 I could have given a very convincing argument of why he should have been removed from office...because I heard it from my dad.

Heck, even in preschool I could go on for minutes as to why Debbie Gibson was better than Tiffany because I overheard my dad talking about it to one of his friends back in 1989!! I was THREE!

The most obvious example I could use is stuff like from Jesus Camp, but I would prefer to avoid the religious indoctrination aspect of parents shaping children's opinions.

Edited December 12, 2006 by Croc

[razoredge]

itemized because I bounce around

first aaantoine post is 100% accurate as to the real problem. The man broke one of the commandments. Cant do that and lead a Church.

2. self hatred of sorts is not a "sin" and is most likely more common than homosexuality. If not - psy., theropy and counseling, as well as brain drugs would not be the huge industries that they are today. Homosexual people need not think they are the only ones with struggles or whos struggles are the only ones that matter.

3. I was surprised to see that someone had some type of homosexual attraction at the age of 5.................? Is that like in Kindergarten when we began writting those "do you love me ? Yes or No ?" notes with little girls........there are little boys that already want to send these notes to little boys ?........Wow ! never thought about that...Ill keep my thoughts on that one to myself.

4. religion..........god.........sin.......... shoot me ?..........

1st of all religious people need to realize that if there really was and or still is a god, he was far from perfect. For one we were supposedly created in "Gods image".... right away proving God was far from perfect. THen in the next hypricotical "scripture" we are born to sin or from sin or however they "put it" thus once again proving God is far from perfect. God also created the mind of a woman.........thus proving he is a far cry from perfect......... then the thing that really puts venom in my mouth is this "casting of satan or "the fallen angel" down to earth" to raise hell with all of us.........not only proves God is far from perfect, it also speaked little of his "humanity". Then somewhere in the "bible" it says you are either for me or against me...........speaks little for this dude "God"........"look Im not gonna show up, make appearences, help out with the tuff stuff........."BUT YOU WILL PRAISE ME OR ELSE !" and "by the way heres Satan, I cant deal with him so hes your problem now"........"but remember I am a jelous God and you will worship no false idols, praise and live your live for me and me alone !".........alrighty then....

finally someone that can make this huge of a mess in just 6 days......and then has the nerve to rest for a day..........AINT PERFECT !

This guy will be fine, it is however a shame that now he and his wife need to be subjected to the idiotic "counseling" over a matter that is what it is and needs no counseling. They'd be further ahead to join a swingers club and rid themselves of their inhabitions and "hangups"

[Croc]

razoredge, you make some interesting points. The only one I will comment on is your #3: My old friend Erika is a lesbian, and she says she's been attracted to girls since Kindergarten. She used to wanna pet and play with all the other girls' hair and would always get scolded over it...yet says she never really understood why her teacher said it was wrong because it felt so natural to her. It happens at young ages...

[Cory Wolfe]

Other than the commentary for the 3rd point, I actually agree with Razor.

But yeah, I read the article and the ass load of comments. Alot of hypocrisy over there. Being an Atheist and gay... I sort of have to laugh. All that over what some silly book says? Are you for real? People should live their lives as they see it, not by what some "god" or book says. Seriously.

Edited December 13, 2006 by blackviper8891

[04monteintimidator]

first of all... i fell kinda bad for the guy in some respects... but in others i dont...

i feel bad that this is being made into such a huge deal... if he wasnt homosexual it wouldnt be this big a deal and probably actually wouldve never even surfaced as a problem... i have a huge problem with the catholic church's complete resentment of homosexuality... especially because they preach acceptance and apathy

i DONT feel bad that he cheated on his wife... if he wasnt attracted to her, he shouldnt have married her... so called "cover-up" marraiges where closeted gays marry women to appear straight is probably one of worst recurring trends of our time... if you are closeted for whatever reason then fine... be closeted, but dont put another human being through what this mans wife will now have to deal with

now... i want to address this:

Finally, I must also wonder:  Why separate yourself, or dislike, God, because of those who purportedly represent Him?  What has God to do, with those who represent Him?  Did you know that, when Jesus walked the earth, His main problem was with the religious people of His time?

226716[/snapback]

i assume that this was in response to 68s post where he said he didnt like religion... he didnt renounce God at all in his post... he renounced the same thing i renounce... organized religions... and i completely agree with everything he said

i have huge issues with a lot of the world's religions... because a lot of them are hypocritical... i already pointed out one of Catholicisms hypocrasies... and i wont go into all the others now... itd take too long...

but the thing is... who is anyone else to tell me how i should act and what i should do on weekends and what is the right thing to do and what is the wrong thing to do... i make those decisions for myself... and if they are wrong... then so be it... i will be judged when the time comes... but i have free will for a reason and i am damn sure going to use it while i still can... no one in a robe with a really big old book is going to change that

[NDL]

i assume that this was in response to 68s post where he said he didnt like religion... he didnt renounce God at all in his post...

227045[/snapback]

I appreciate your feedback. Actually, my comment was not in response to any individual post, or poster, but to the tone that some take, towards matters of faith.

i have huge issues with a lot of the world's religions... because a lot of them are hypocritical...

Not to jump to conclusions, but perhaps on this matter, we are on the same page then, for I follow not religion, but Christ.

but the thing is... who is anyone else to tell me how i should act and what i should do on weekends and what is the right thing to do and what is the wrong thing to do... i make those decisions for myself... and if they are wrong... then so be it... i will be judged when the time comes... but i have free will for a reason and i am damn sure going to use it while i still can... no one in a robe with a really big old book is going to change that

You're right; we all have free will, thus, the complete freedom to do as we please. But would you say that you do, or do not, follow God? For if you claim to follow God,

what is the strength of your claim based upon? For how can someone follow God, and not do their best, to adhere to His standards?

[Sixty8panther]

Dsuupr:

You know who else was Quaker?

A great pacifist man who Founded Cadillac & Lincoln, Henry Leland.

grouping together the "white-trash-power" Klan,

Nazis & Republicans is very ignorant and just

makes your argument seem infintile. As far as

the issue of empathy I agree 100%.

[Flybrian]

In any case, Christianity isn't foolish and neither is not believing in Christianity. Whatever brings you satisfaction and comfort in life is what you should follow and if you choose to 'spread the word' to others, do it in a manner that respects that other people may be just as devout in their differing beliefs.

The vast majority of organized religion, spirituality, and plain good manners in the world has one common thread - treat others as you would have other treat you. I think if we all wake up and realize humanity is the pillar of who we are, we'd be a far more peaceful society.

[Croc]

In any case, Christianity isn't foolish and neither is not believing in Christianity. Whatever brings you satisfaction and comfort in life is what you should follow and if you choose to 'spread the word' to others, do it in a manner that respects that other people may be just as devout in their differing beliefs.

The vast majority of organized religion, spirituality, and plain good manners in the world has one common thread - treat others as you would have other treat you. I think if we all wake up and realize humanity is the pillar of who we are, we'd be a far more peaceful society.

227198[/snapback]

For truth and emphasis.

[NDL]

Whatever brings you satisfaction and comfort in life is what you should follow and if you choose to 'spread the word' to others, do it in a manner that respects that other people may be just as devout in their differing beliefs.

I am in total agreement, for it might surprise you that there's an actual Biblical mandate commanding believers to approach someone with the Gospel twice, and then leave it/them alone.

That's one thing that drives me nuts; the incessant, and forced, preaching. Yes, we are commanded to spread the Gospel, but I think the best way to win people to Christ, is through conduct, not words.

The vast majority of organized religion, spirituality, and plain good manners in the world has one common thread - treat others as you would have other treat you.

I gotta disagree with you there, for in many parts of the world, there is serious religious persecution.

I think if we all wake up and realize humanity is the pillar of who we are, we'd be a far more peaceful society.

I agree, and think that the compassionate and merciful side of Christianity, has been thrown out of the window, with too many Christians.

Edited December 13, 2006 by NDL

[aaaantoine]

there is no Catholic law saying you can't be homosexual and Catholic

227356[/snapback]

Be prepared for someone to call you out on this. I agree with you, but I'm currently ill-equipped to back you up.

Last time I checked, Jesus put more of an emphasis on helping the poor and downtrodden than giving all your money to the church.

227356[/snapback]

Also agreed. But I'd like to point out that if you visit your church regularly, then you believe in what it stands for. Tithing serves two purposes: it funds the church to keep it out of the red, and if the Church has a well-guided treasury, they will use the pooled revenue for greater things.

But then there are always the corrupt churches...

[Flybrian]

I gotta disagree with you there, for in many parts of the world, there is serious religious persecution.

227228[/snapback]

Heh. Let me clarify. The original message of the world's faiths and beliefs preach the Golden Rule.

[razoredge]

The original message of the world's faiths and beliefs preach the Golden Rule.

227393[/snapback]

actually the origional book of what we today call God promotes greed "all the land and its riches will be yours", self indulgence (such as multiple wifes and concubines), places no value on women other than the purposes of procreation........(the non Christian "heathen" native Americans even placed women high in importance), a promised land there for the taking as soon as you finally wonder on to the best parcial of land and slay its inhabitants (entitlement and the origional cause for the "holy wars" that still control much of our dayly world). Alters for sacrifice with one proposition from "God" for one dude to sacrifice his first born son as a show of fate, of course it was a test and never played out but somehow such a questionable request and consideration of this request is highly suspect. Then there was that thing about wondering the area while searching for the "promised land", spreading the word...........and slaying any and all who did not bow down to the Hebrews beliefs.

Sorry but the books of "God" are and have been so deeply flawed since the beginning. They may have worked well in a time when people believed the world was flat and feared everything because so much was unknown but today they read like an amature Stephen King novel.

Contrary to believing that we have compassion, mercy and know right from wrong on account of the bible, I personally believe we (most) are naturally born with this knowledge which then becomes corrupted according to our weaknesses for self serving greed.......which the bible deals with in really mixed self serving messages.....

so little has changed and this world is still the same 'ol, same 'ol sad state of affairs only with higher stakes.......shall we say a more advanced version of an amature Stephen King novel.

ones got to wonder if "the faiths" have helped, impeded or made little difference in the outcome of humanity

[Croc]

Be prepared for someone to call you out on this.  I agree with you, but I'm currently ill-equipped to back you up.

227361[/snapback]

No, because anyone with a passing knowledge of the Catechism of the Catholic Church would know that one can BE gay and Catholic, just asked to remain celibate. That's the doctrine, and it dates back to the 1970s.

[Camino LS6]

You know something funny?

I believe that religion is evil, and yet a huge percentage of my friends over the years have been practising Catholics.

Strange.

[CARBIZ]

I am an atheist, yet my current boyfriend grew up Jehovah's Witness, and my previous partner of 10 years was raised (but not was not practicing when we met) Pentacostal.

I am still scratching my head on that!!

[ocnblu]

"What's a Pentacost?"

[aaaantoine]

Well... the Pentecost is...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentecost

[ehaase]

"What's a Pentacost?"

227933[/snapback]

Evangelical Christians who believe that the miracles and speaking in unknown tonges from the Book of Acts still happen today. Most Christians believe these stopped when the apostles died. Assembly of God is the largest Pentecostal denomination, but there are Baptists, Catholics, and mainline Protestants who also believe this and are called charismatics. Jimmy Swaggart, Jim Bakker, Oral Roberts are some of the more famous Pentecostals. Pat Robertson is the most famous charismatic. I believe that Ted Haggard is a charismatic.

[Croc]

Most Christians believe these stopped when the apostles died.

227960[/snapback]

I know several mainstream Christian sects that hold speaking in tongues to be valid, though most congregations do not speak in tongues. I don't know if one can say most Christians believe it stopped, since a good majority of mainstream Christians probably haven't given it much thought in the first place.

[ocnblu]

"What's a Pentecost?" <---- quote from a movie. Thanks for the info, though.

[razoredge]

must be Im a pentecostal "speaking in unknown tonges"........according to members of C&G

That stuff is a curiosity, Ive seen it (on TV ed programs), maybe if you practise it or figure out a system to make all those weird sounds but otherwise is a bit like the movie Exorcist

[Sixty8panther]

Yup... I'm with you Camino.... but to each his own.

It's a free country and who am I to judge?

Only religious fanatics could twist Islam's peaceful

message of unity, spirituality & common ground

into a WAR of hypocracy.

[CARBIZ]

My ex, who was 23 when I met him, was raised to believe that the dinosaurs are a New Age hoax. That was part of their teaching at the Pentacostal Church where he went at the time. When we were in the Sudbury Science North exhibit, and they have the spine of a brontosauras (or some such critter, it was 15 years ago!) strung up the middle of their huge atrium, he denounced it as fake.

I challenged him to explain how the government couldn't keep Watergate under wraps for even a couple years, yet thousands of scientists world wide have kept the dinosaur hoax going for, what, 130 years?

When reason meets dogma, it is a scary, scary sight.

[lesabrefire]

I guess me being a non-trinitarian Christian places me on the fringes of theology but I'd like to chime in. Most think the Creation is supposed to be perfect, therefore since there is pain, starving masses, etc the Creator is flawed. The biggest eye opener in my studies is when I realized the our dimension and the one where the Almighty dwells are not the same.This seems to be a temporary universe especially is you consider entropy. The Book of Enoch (whom Jude, the brother of our Lord quoted)explains much of what the Bible does not in the beginning. Also, the early Israelis who lived in extremely barbaric times and had a COVENANTAL agreement with their God developed a warrior attitude strangely after being slaves for 400 years. A race called the Amelekites started the first war with an unprovoked attack at Rephidim. They fought nations that were comprised in many instances from races of giants. Women in ancient Israel were elevated to the status of Judges (Rulers)and the office of a Prophetess was at the top of the heap. Careful studying of the old Hebraic writings clarify many of our preconceived "religious" biases.

Edited May 26, 2011 by lesabrefire

[Potluck]

what does any of that mean and what does it have to do with someone being secretly gay?

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Here's my take on it all:

God is perfect, although man is not. Therefore, when man teaches God's perfection, he is, by default, a hypocrite. For by default, how can something imperfect, teach perfection, without hypocrisy? Should not the teachers' heart and motive come into question, for no one is perfect? I myself am a Christian who, at times, has not acted like one. For there are times when I lost my temper. There are times when I've cussed up-and-down. There are times when I have been impatient. There are times when I haven't acted in a way that was as nice as I could have. Now, I am by no means excusing my behavior, although this must be considered: If I acted 'by the book,' all-of-the-time, I wouldn't be human, for I would be perfect. And so I am sure that there have been, at times, an unbelieving person or two, or Christian or two, who's thought of my person: 'He calls himself a Christian? For surely he's a hypocrite!' Yet, to those who know me, they know I have a sincere, and strong, concern, towards all people. For I believe that each person is significant, and that every life matters. And I have spent much of my adult life, in an effort to reach out to others, that all might know that God loves each and every one of us, and that the hurting and rejected always have a home. But I can be seen in both ways: A hypocrite that cussed while repairing something, or two, a flawed man who does his best in reaching out to others.

Finally, I must also wonder: Why separate yourself, or dislike, God, because of those who purportedly represent Him? What has God to do, with those who represent Him? Did you know that, when Jesus walked the earth, His main problem was with the religious people of His time?

Excellent!

[GMTruckGuy74]

Here's my take on it all:

God is perfect, although man is not. Therefore, when man teaches God's perfection, he is, by default, a hypocrite. For by default, how can something imperfect, teach perfection, without hypocrisy? Should not the teachers' heart and motive come into question, for no one is perfect? I myself am a Christian who, at times, has not acted like one. For there are times when I lost my temper. There are times when I've cussed up-and-down. There are times when I have been impatient. There are times when I haven't acted in a way that was as nice as I could have. Now, I am by no means excusing my behavior, although this must be considered: If I acted 'by the book,' all-of-the-time, I wouldn't be human, for I would be perfect. And so I am sure that there have been, at times, an unbelieving person or two, or Christian or two, who's thought of my person: 'He calls himself a Christian? For surely he's a hypocrite!' Yet, to those who know me, they know I have a sincere, and strong, concern, towards all people. For I believe that each person is significant, and that every life matters. And I have spent much of my adult life, in an effort to reach out to others, that all might know that God loves each and every one of us, and that the hurting and rejected always have a home. But I can be seen in both ways: A hypocrite that cussed while repairing something, or two, a flawed man who does his best in reaching out to others.

Finally, I must also wonder: Why separate yourself, or dislike, God, because of those who purportedly represent Him? What has God to do, with those who represent Him? Did you know that, when Jesus walked the earth, His main problem was with the religious people of His time?

Excellent!

+1

I totally concur with FOG that NDL "nailed it".

[Turbojett]

^^^Concurrence^^^

what a lot of so-called "religious" people seem to forget are a few pretty important things the Bible also said:

Love all, serve all.

All of us are brothers.

Judge not, lest ye be judged thyself.

Put the welfare of others before your own.

Treat others as you would wish to be treated yourself.

all that gets cast aside and perverted when "religious" zealots use whatever Scripture they can get their grubby paws on to preach hate, xenophobia and hypocrisy. No wonder so many reject religion or have a distorted view on it; people like this drive them to it.

the devil will quote scripture to meet his own ends.

I realize I'm not perfect, I make mistakes. I sin. I know I shouldn't, but I do. I'm human. But I still try to remember those five points I mentioned. The way I see it, those are probably more important rules to live by than "you're gonna go to hell if you do the slightest thing wrong!!!" or anything else that these fascists want to shove down our throats.

Edited June 7, 2011 by Turbojett