Is there anyone that's better than MT or CR?

[biff]

Hi guys, newbie here.

I noticed in another thread discussion about Motor Trend's bias against GM in favor of Toyota. Are there any good resources out there that present facts without Japanese bias?

I support American car companies and have GM vehicles. I have inlaws that no nothing about cars, swear American is garbage, think Consumer Reports (CR) is the bible, and are ready to trade off their Chevrolet on a Nissan because they had to replace a fuel filter. Anyway, I get an issue of CR to see what their deal is. I find rave reviews of a Tundra that isn't even out yet, nothing very positive in comparisson about GM's GMT 900's, Honda Ridgeline is the top rated pickup, and even a line about the Impala SS that the front wheels spin too easily. (Isn't that the point of the SS??) I looked at a CR top rated Ridgeline 'pickup' once. Even if it was big enough to haul anything, I'd break the tailgate off loading it since it only has one cable.

I live in a rural state where the west begins. A lot of people around here consider vehicles like the Ridgeline and Titan to be for spikey haired city slicker boys who are trying to get a tough guy image.

Are there any magazines out there that grade a pickup on being a pickup?? I'm not interested in some editors opinion on how a Honda makes a better grocery getter for his family than my GMC because the rough ride doesn't wreck his wife's hair. I'm looking for some facts for my inlaws and some support for my GM habit.

Thanks! Have a great day!

[Cadillacfan]

Good luck. Most of the magazines out there have a strong Toyota bias. Magazines like autoweek and various online auto magazines are a little more objective in their approach (from what I've seen).

Welcome to the website. You can count on someone here linking a positive article to C&G.

Edited December 11, 2006 by Cadillacfan

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

Welcome to Cheers and Gears, Biff! I was reading one of my 2006 issues of Consumer Guide (who I've gone by for 14 years), and upon reading, I noticed lots of bias not for Toyota, but for Honda. Yeah, we can pick on them for being bland in most cases, but then again so's most everyone else. My favorite auto enthusiast magazine is Automobile, though Motor Trend has improved a little bit, Car and Driver I'm not so crazy about, and Road and Track has always been different and interesting in its own right from the others. I like Automobile the best because of their future vehicle speculation (mostly, oddly from BMW and the VW/Audi/Porsche gang seemingly), but also their emphasis on design, and when Paul Lienert (before he went massively downhill) was writing future vehicle reports/speculation.

[Hudson]

Hi guys, newbie here.

I noticed in another thread discussion about Motor Trend's bias against GM in favor of Toyota.  Are there any good resources out there that present facts without Japanese bias?

I support American car companies and have GM vehicles.  I have inlaws that no nothing about cars, swear American is garbage, think Consumer Reports (CR) is the bible, and are ready to trade off their Chevrolet on a Nissan because they had to replace a fuel filter.      Anyway, I get an issue of CR to see what their deal is.  I find rave reviews of a Tundra that isn't even out yet, nothing very positive in comparisson about GM's GMT 900's, Honda Ridgeline is the top rated pickup, and even a line about the Impala SS that the front wheels spin too easily.  (Isn't that the point of the SS??)  I looked at a CR top rated Ridgeline 'pickup' once.  Even if it was big enough to haul anything, I'd break the tailgate off loading it since it only has one cable. 

I live in a rural state where the west begins.  A lot of people around here consider vehicles like the Ridgeline and Titan to be for spikey haired city slicker boys who are trying to get a tough guy image. 

Are there any magazines out there that grade a pickup on being a pickup??  I'm not interested in some editors opinion on how a Honda makes a better grocery getter for his family than my GMC because the rough ride doesn't wreck his wife's hair.  I'm looking for some facts for my inlaws and some support for my GM habit.

Thanks!  Have a great day!

226195[/snapback]

Welcome to the forum.

I read much into what you've written. It seems you're looking for a bias...through your own rose-colored lenses (not that this is a bad thing..or unique). Things like the "one cable" flaw you pointed out in the Ridgeline assumes that you've broken "two cable" tailgates in the past...or that you're picking on a truck that you've not fully tested (like your complaint about the Tundra praise).

Are you avoiding the Ridgeline and Titan because of what your neighbors think? And you're having a problem with the attitudes of some professional automotive writers because they don't sync up with your neighbors' opinions?

Please don't take this wrong (and I'm sure you will because of the way I write it), but your bias seems as misplaced as that of the bias of your in-laws. No magazine presents just the facts, because that would be boring and nobody would read it. If you want someone to praise GM products over all else, buy one of the GM fanzines. But there are reasons for magazines like Motor Trend and Car and Driver to heap praise on Toyotas and Hondas over competitive vehicles. In some cases, the Toyota and Honda products are actually superior. In some cases, the competitive vehicles are inferior. In some cases (relatively few), the writer just doesn't like the competition.

From my experience (and rightfully so), the people who frequent this site (and others like it) will present slanted beliefs in favor of GM at the expense of every other brand (even ones that are actually better).

My advice, back up a step or two and compare vehicles with as little of your own bias as possible. Your in-laws obviously need to know that the fuel filter (really? the fuel filter?) should be routinely replaced in EVERY car and truck, no matter the brand or manufacturer.

I like the idea of supporting the home country, but not at the expense of forcing a lesser product on myself. I earned this money and I'll spend it on the best product for the dollar...whether that's a GM product or one from Botswana. Of my two most recent auto purchases, one was built in the US (by an American manufacturer) and one was imported...and both were the best value for my dollar for their intended purposes.

Good luck to you!

Edited December 11, 2006 by Hudson

[Drew Dowdell]

How about an unbiased online magazine?

[FAPTurbo]

How about an unbiased online magazine? 

226405[/snapback]

I actually had a thought about that. Something to compete with TTAC, and such, but providing a more balanced, less petarded view on things.

It'd also have more useful articles... No stupid GM deathwatches...

[Robert Hall]

I like Winding Road (online magazine)...for the print mags, I still subscribe to Car & Driver, Road & Track, and Automobile, with Automobile probably my current favorite....been subscribing to it since it's first issue in the '80s..

[Intrepidation]

Top Gear! XD

[pow]

None of the enthusiast car magazines (C&D, M/T, R&T, Automobile) like trucks very much.

Try something like Truck Trends or 4x4 Super Duper Wheeling or something.

[balthazar]

Things like the "one cable" flaw you pointed out in the Ridgeline assumes that you've broken "two cable" tailgates in the past...

I disagree. If 2 cable s supports heavy loads, it is legitimate & logical to distrust half that much support in another vehicle; it has nothing to do with whether anothe vehicle's were broken, only that this vehicle doesn't measure up in this area.

[biff]

Hudson - You would be correct, I did look for bias since noticing it in some pubs. I think CR is a good reference, but I picked on the Ridgeline because they rated it as their top pickup, and there are a lot of things a Ridgeline can't do to be part of the full size pickup category. With the single cable, I intended to imply that's it's not built for heavy use, and don’t think it should be compared to a full size pickup.

I drove a Titan, Ford, and Dodge before buying a GMC in ‘04. Liked the seats, interior layout, ride, fuel economy and exterior styling of the GMC and my last Chevy treated me well. Ridgeline and Tundra were too small for what I pull/haul. My neighbors are ranchers, and only the big three make HD rigs that will get their jobs done, hence their opinions.

While I agree many Japanese vehicles are better than their American competition, CR sometimes focuses on only strengths or only weaknesses based on their criteria and not what the vehicle was designed for. Also, if they’re going to make ratings, they should show a little more math because they’re numbers are quite vague and general even though they do more than other magazines. That would make for a thick magazine though and I guess that’s the engineer in me.

Thanks for the info guys. I get Popular Mechanics and MT. PM’s reviews have been alright, but there just aren’t too many for vehicles since they do many topics.

[Hudson]

I disagree. If 2 cable s supports heavy loads, it is legitimate & logical to distrust half that much support in another vehicle; it has nothing to do with whether anothe vehicle's were broken, only that this vehicle doesn't measure up in this area.

226532[/snapback]

Why not make one STRONGER cable rather than two weaker ones? It seems you're assuming that all cables are the same strength.

I haven't measured the tensile strength of any of them, but I have to figure that the cable will hold a respectable amount of weight. And the primary reason for having only one is probably the dual-action tailgate on the Ridgeline, which could be seen as a plus.

Ridgeline and Tundra were too small for what I pull/haul.  My neighbors are ranchers, and only the big three make HD rigs that will get their jobs done, hence their opinions.

Do they have the same opinion of the F150 or Silverado 1500? Because the Titan and Tundra compare favorably to them. Of course the Toyota, Nissan, and Honda can't compete with the 3/4- and 1-ton versions of the domestic brands...but they weren't designed to either. Not yet.

...Also, if they’re going to make ratings, they should show a little more math because they’re numbers are quite vague and general even though they do more than other magazines.  That would make for a thick magazine though and I guess that’s the engineer in me.

Consumer Reports readers are not engineers. They simply want a "yes/no" answer. And since all vehicles sold in the US fit into the "adequate" category, magazines must be nit-picky to choose one over another. There are simply no bad vehicle on the market today.

[evok]

I disagree. If 2 cable s supports heavy loads, it is legitimate & logical to distrust half that much support in another vehicle; it has nothing to do with whether anothe vehicle's were broken, only that this vehicle doesn't measure up in this area.

226532[/snapback]

Legitimate?

Logical?

Besides your arguments are not logical and not legitmate, GM's pickups only load one cable strap at a time.

Edited December 12, 2006 by evok

[Mr.Krinkle]

Hi guys, newbie here.

I noticed in another thread discussion about Motor Trend's bias against GM in favor of Toyota.  Are there any good resources out there that present facts without Japanese bias?

I support American car companies and have GM vehicles.  I have inlaws that no nothing about cars, swear American is garbage, think Consumer Reports (CR) is the bible, and are ready to trade off their Chevrolet on a Nissan because they had to replace a fuel filter.      Anyway, I get an issue of CR to see what their deal is.  I find rave reviews of a Tundra that isn't even out yet, nothing very positive in comparisson about GM's GMT 900's, Honda Ridgeline is the top rated pickup, and even a line about the Impala SS that the front wheels spin too easily.  (Isn't that the point of the SS??)  I looked at a CR top rated Ridgeline 'pickup' once.  Even if it was big enough to haul anything, I'd break the tailgate off loading it since it only has one cable. 

I live in a rural state where the west begins.  A lot of people around here consider vehicles like the Ridgeline and Titan to be for spikey haired city slicker boys who are trying to get a tough guy image. 

Are there any magazines out there that grade a pickup on being a pickup??  I'm not interested in some editors opinion on how a Honda makes a better grocery getter for his family than my GMC because the rough ride doesn't wreck his wife's hair.  I'm looking for some facts for my inlaws and some support for my GM habit.

Thanks!  Have a great day!

226195[/snapback]

There is no one "unbiased" source of anything. Multiple accounts from multiple sources is your best bet. Dont be lazy. No one person is going have the definitve answer for you.

There will never be a shortage of opinions.

As far as trucks go I know where to look and theyve been doing it for a few decades.

[bcs296]

Most of the print magazines are going to be seriously biased, although they will occasionally go on sprees of fairness. It really depends on who authored the articles you read, which is stupid if you ask me. It'd be nice if these people didn't let their feelings show through so much in their writing.

I recommend you check out New Car Test Drive, or www.nctd.com. They tend to be very reasonable and appreciate every car for what it is, always highlighting the good aspects in a car. They don't nitpick very much and don't search for stupid little things they can use to spin the article in one direction or another.

Edited February 7, 2007 by bcs296

[balthazar]

>>"Why not make one STRONGER cable rather than two weaker ones? It seems you're assuming that all cables are the same strength."<<

It's a plausible idea, but are you not likewise assuming that the ONE cable is stronger than the TWO in this case? If this was a domestic truck, the mass opinion would be 'cost cutting!!', not a benefit-of-the-doubt assumption. Knowing automakers, it is logical to assume at least some degree of inferiority, pending proof otherwise.

RE: one cable- There remains the possibility that very heavy loads will unevenly stress both the tailgate itself and the hinge points, whereas 2 cables will distribute the load evenly. There is no question it's a compromise (for the dual-action tailgate, which IMO is useless).