Nice Guys

[trinacriabob]

I just asked myself this question dealing with a client today. ARRRGGGHHH.

I once posted a thread about rude customers. (I had one contractor/client go for my jugular last spring because of a few things I didn't pick up on a floor plan after our firm went through a mutiny - 15 % of the staff walked out in 1 day - and a lot of us were scrambling to keep everything in check). I would have gone off on him but I kept cool thinking: braces to be paid for with cafeteria plan - check, vesting schedule for 401 K is higher in April - check...you get the idea. Today, I would tell him to 'eff off.

This is a different client I'm talking about now. Our projects with this client are winding down. She calls on the back end of the project looking for extra work for free - can you move this wall, can you help with evaluating this...(not billed). As I have moved on to other projects, I return her calls within 1 to 2 days instead up picking up the phone. Since she notices the difference from 6 months ago, she has gotten a little testy. In short, being the polite, polished and always at the client's beck and call routine was starting NOT to pay off, so I changed my m.o.

I believe in being nice...but firm. If you are nice and NOT firm, that's not a good spot to be. I don't think being an a-hole is the way to go, either. They can only get away with it for so long.

Post your opinions and stories if you like.

Edited December 8, 2006 by trinacriabob

[Flybrian]

Well, nice guys do occasionally get the beautiful girl, though this is probably irrelevant to some (most?) of you.

[american_revolution_2005]

People who drive Toyotas seem to be rude. From working at Canadian Tire, about 3/4 of our angry/rude customers own a Toyota. They seem to be snobby. Domestic owners are the best and they aren't very rude when looking for parts.

[z28luvr01]

Oh man, where to begin.

Despite the fact that being nice has gotten me more work than I can handle, and has failed to get me the LTR that I've been waiting for, I'll continue to do it. Why, because I'm called to, and because being a jerk will come back to bite me in the ass someday.

I hope you're right, Fly, because there's one in my crosshairs.

[trinacriabob]

Despite the fact that being nice has gotten me more work than I can handle

225139[/snapback]

Where do I begin? Gawd, I hate those marketing types who want to schmooze and can't do anything remotely technical to save their lives. It's the more detail-oriented people (some of them who tend toward the nicer end of the spectrum) who get all the work while they PLAY...

[ocnblu]

Prejudice is Poison.

[Drew Dowdell]

Well, nice guys do occasionally get the beautiful girl, though this is probably irrelevant to some (most?) of you.

225134[/snapback]

nice guys sometimes do get the prince...after kissing lots of toads.

edit: They might finish last, but they usually also win best.

Edited December 8, 2006 by Oldsmoboi

[capriceman]

The Nice guys Run over stop signs...

[XP715]

I believe in being nice...but firm.  If you are nice and NOT firm, that's not a good spot to be.

225119[/snapback]

I agree with you one hundred percent. If you're nice and not firm, some people will try and take advantage of you because most people tend to associate kindness with weakness.

[the_yellow_dart]

You know, there's a balance - Be nice, until the $h! hits the fan. Then, you have to be firm.

[razoredge]

nice guys finish last

its the ruthless people that get to the top

thats in the living capitoolistic world. after death they are the same pile of stinkin rotting flesh the rest of us are.

[trinacriabob]

Prejudice is Poison.

225144[/snapback]

Please explain. Others have fleshed out their arguments a little more.

[2005 EquinoxLS]

I used to be one of those really nice guys that would do anything for anybody. I have a little speech issue and maybe a slight slowness if you will. A lot of people have taken advantage of that in the past. I have had to become not so nice all the time and learn to not allow people to take advantage of the situation. I am doing a lot better now.

[ZL-1]

I believe in being nice as a principle. Sometimes you have to toughen up, though.

In the end it's 'nice and smart/wise' that wins, but a lot of times it's much easier said than done.

[Croc]

Nice guys only finish last when they whine.

[Enzora]

Nice guys only finish last when they whine.

225408[/snapback]

And people in general only whine when they finish last.

I definitely think it has more to do with strength/assertiveness than being nice or being an asshole. Balancing that means knowing how to be nice, while knowing that sometimes it's necessary to be a dick.

[sciguy_0504]

It pays to be nice but it also pays to be firm. If you're working for free and she knows this and is still acting rude then you need to set her straight. The worst is saying something and then not seeing it through. It makes you look very weak, IMO, and I hate when people do it.

[razoredge]

I somehow doubt a young man would have a clue as to what winds up where and when. Nice people are used, taken advantage of because they make it so easy to do.

This is more of a two sided question anyhow.

You pretty much have to be nice to important customers, customers you dont like you usually dont want. With boss's/employers you have to be nice or your going nowhere. But now it also turns on you, being nice and doing everything and anything will get you the work no one else wants, the $h! work. You'll be off busting your butt and the slackers be nob gobbin the hob nob. You're efforts will go unnoticed and the nob gobbers will be in tight... but now remember your a nice guy so you let it slide and your nice to the ones with the little brown spot on their nose, when you turn your back they are pointing out whats wrong with you and gulping down a little more.

Sooner or later your either going to snap or go work somewhere else and watch the whole process start all over again...........

my own favorite and often used quote is "your going to miss me when Im gone", it seems to hold true too or so I have been told. Some people just dont catch on till its too late.

[trinacriabob]

If you're working for free and she knows this and is still acting rude then you need to set her straight. 

225465[/snapback]

There is a lump sum budget for the project and it has a decent chunk of money in it. The scope was never defined as to this kind of crap (gee, we want to lease this office, can you compute the square footage of that part of the 2nd floor?). The fee and the budget were set by my old boss who walked with a handful of others and started his own outfit. I am sort of stuck with the fee and my boss did not create a category for variable crap, so I can't come back and change the situation/contract. She is taking a little bit of advantage of it, though I am getting shorter and shorter with this.

If I am running the project, I ask for more money or tell them it's not in the budget. I did that with a bank remodel and they ponied up the money.

I am generally very polite. They are then taken aback when that stops.

[sciguy_0504]

There is a lump sum budget for the project and it has a decent chunk of money in it.  The scope was never defined as to this kind of crap (gee, we want to lease this office, can you compute the square footage of that part of the 2nd floor?).  The fee and the budget were set by my old boss who walked with a handful of others and started his own outfit.  I am sort of stuck with the fee and my boss did not create a category for variable crap, so I can't come back and change the situation/contract.  She is taking a little bit of advantage of it, though I am getting shorter and shorter with this.

If I am running the project, I ask for more money or tell them it's not in the budget.  I did that with a bank remodel and they ponied up the money.

225477[/snapback]

I would so the same with her then. She may add to the budget or she may quit trying to squeeze every cent out of what is left.

[Camino LS6]

The pricks usually win - for a while. Then they piss someone off one too many times and lose BIG. The nice guys usually finish last, but they have a slew of people who have a good feling about them and will help them out when it really counts.

The worst thing you can do is to force someone who is nice by nature past their breaking point. If you do, the ensuing $h!storm will take you out. It's the same thing as picking a fight with the little guy, if you push him too far he's going to kick you in the nuts so he has time to cut your throat. Little guys don't "fight fair" it just isn't an option. If you force them to fight they are going to hurt you as severely as possible. The same goes for the nice guy - don't push him past his limits, you'll regret it.

[ocnblu]

Yeah, I'm a little guy, so errbody better watch it.

[regfootball]

wait, did we cover this.....IS SHE HOT?

[trinacriabob]

wait, did we cover this.....IS SHE HOT?

225584[/snapback]

Typical reg,

she is N-O-T HOT. She does not have a weight problem, nor is she thin...normal...but N-O-T HOT. She managed to snag herself a rich husband, though.

[mustang84]

I think nice guys can finish first, but like others have said, you have to let your boundaries and limits be known...that you can't be everything to everybody all the time.

I've found that being polite and helping others has gotten me a lot further in life than those who try to go around taking advantage of others or try to take the easy way out of things.

At my old job, I used to work with a bunch of guys who would always leave work a half hour early, leaving me to finish up the rest of it myself (which took an hour because they left early). I never complained about it because it gave me more overtime, but my boss began to notice how hard I was working and how lazy some of the others were. Eventually, I got the nice job up in the office while they continued to do $h!ty jobs in back without me there to pick up after them.

Edited December 9, 2006 by mustang84

[regfootball]

Typical reg,

she is N-O-T HOT.  She does not have a weight problem, nor is she thin...normal...but N-O-T HOT.  She managed to snag herself a rich husband, though.

225647[/snapback]

remember, its all just a bit.

[trinacriabob]

I never complained about it because it gave me more overtime, but my boss began to notice how hard I was working and how lazy some of the others were.  Eventually, I got the nice job up in the office while they continued to do $h!ty jobs in back without me there to pick up after them.

225653[/snapback]

Oh, believe me, it shows. That's why I got moved from a cubicle into an office with a door. Still, the clients who "turn one's stomach" are a constant and I find that I have to bite my lip because it would be a departure from my normal way, which is keeping it professional, though not uptight.