GM targets smaller, more profitable Buick brand

[douglask]

General Motors Corp is prepared to nearly halve the number of Buick models it offers in the United States as it tries to reestablish the luxury brand in its home market, GM's chief executive said on Tuesday.

Rick Wagoner, speaking to reporters at the unveiling of the 2008 Buick Enclave, said the automaker would also reduce Buick sales to rental car companies as it shifts toward targeting more profitable retail sales with upcoming new designs.

Although Buick has offered as many as seven models in recent years, Wagoner said GM was prepared to accept lower unit sales with about four models in order to try to capture more showroom traffic and shun lower-margin sales to car rental companies.

"In the end we're going to let it flow. But what we're going to do is to make sure we make three and then four really good (Buick models)," Wagoner told reporters.

Full article:

http://today.reuters.com/stocks/QuoteCompa...UICK.XML&rpc=66

[douglask]

It's interesting how the full article mentions how Wagoner thinks the success of Buick in China will help turn the brand around in the U.S. market with opportunities over time for product sharing.

[79VetteZ06]

It's interesting how the full article mentions how Wagoner thinks the success of Buick in China will help turn the brand around in the U.S. market with opportunities over time for product sharing.

221505[/snapback]

He is targetting our Asian American buyers who might have heard good things about Buick from their homies in china. :AH-HA_wink:

[Dsuupr]

I, for one, would rather better products than more products.

[aaaantoine]

I, for one, would rather better products than more products.

221522[/snapback]

Agreed.

[ZL-1]

So, would it be:

1. Enlcave

2. NG LaCrosse

3. NG Lucerne (eventually RWD)

4. ???

Could nr. 4 be a TE so Buick could have a smaller crossover that appeals to both the SUV and minivan crowd?

[enzl]

So, would it be:

1. Enlcave

2. NG LaCrosse

3. NG Lucerne (eventually RWD)

4. ???

Could nr. 4 be a TE so Buick could have a smaller crossover that appeals to both the SUV and minivan crowd?

221525[/snapback]

#4 should be a Zeta derivative and should be timed to be out after the demise of the Ranier and Terraza...

[AxelTheRed]

Just so long as they don't pull an Oldsmobile on Buick.

[aaaantoine]

Just so long as they don't pull an Oldsmobile on Buick.

221560[/snapback]

Also agreed.

[Robert Hall]

So I wonder when the Rendezvous, Rainier and Terrazo are going away...

[ZL-1]

#4 should be a Zeta derivative and should be timed to be out after the demise of the Ranier and Terraza...

221529[/snapback]

Velite?

[Mr.Krinkle]

Video of the Enclave intro with Wags and Woods

[ocnblu]

Well, we have a midsize sedan, a fullsize sedan, a crossover... we need a coupe or a convertible. Or both with the same model name.

[VenSeattle]

He added: "We don't have to play hard in daily rental with Buick because frankly we've got other brands to play that role. We want to run a lot of volume through Chevrolet. It is the brand that should play broadly and if we need to push for some volume that's the place to push for it. Buick, we can focus."

Wagoner, who declined to discuss specific future product plans, said the Enclave pointed to the direction of GM's plans for the brand which he said was profitable on a global basis.

[FAPTurbo]

A smaller Buick. The way it should be.

Whereabouts is Buickman in all this? His job may be getting a little easier in the coming years.

[Flybrian]

So I wonder when the Rendezvous, Rainier and Terrazo are going away...

221588[/snapback]

Probably for 2008.

[enzl]

Velite?

221589[/snapback]

Possibly. It's a certainty that the Zeta will spawn a Buick. From what I have heard, the kind of vehicle is up in the air. Could be a Coupe, could be a hardtop 'vert, or it might be a 4 door sedan.

Since you're looking at an 09 intro at the earliest, a decision may not have been made, as the larger Zeta sedans sold in other markets could provide the bones of a 4 door and the 2 door Camaro & GTO are already being developed for an 08 intro as 09's, so a hardtop vert could easily be developed alongside a convertible 2 dr. Zeta for Pontiac or, more likely Chevy.

[AxelTheRed]

Velite?

221589[/snapback]

God I hope so.

[4gm]

Buick needs it'sown version of Bentley's 2 door Continental. THAT is where Buick design should be.

[ZL-1]

Possibly. It's a certainty that the Zeta will spawn a Buick. From what I have heard, the kind of vehicle is up in the air. Could be a Coupe, could be a hardtop 'vert, or it might be a 4 door sedan.

Since you're looking at an 09 intro at the earliest, a decision may not have been made, as the larger Zeta sedans sold in other markets could provide the bones of a 4 door and the 2 door Camaro & GTO are already being developed for an 08 intro as 09's, so a hardtop vert could easily be developed alongside a convertible 2 dr. Zeta for Pontiac or, more likely Chevy.

221755[/snapback]

But isn't it more attractive to be present with a smaller crossover (the crossover segment is publicly percieved to be a growth segment), than it is to have another coupe or convertible?

[PONTIAC06]

I would love to see a Velite coupe/convertible but in all reality a crossover to go against the X3, RDX, etc seems alot more likely...It would be really nice to see both of them but...we all know how that goes...

[Northstar]

Possibly. It's a certainty that the Zeta will spawn a Buick. From what I have heard, the kind of vehicle is up in the air. Could be a Coupe, could be a hardtop 'vert, or it might be a 4 door sedan.

221755[/snapback]

Nope, the vehicle is decided on, it's a sedan. Whether or not there could be more than one Buick on Zeta, well, I don't know.

[regfootball]

So I wonder when the Rendezvous, Rainier and Terrazo are going away...

221588[/snapback]

not soon enough

buick needs a convertible and a version of the Holden Stateman (RWD big ass car).

y'all remember......Buick dealers now will nearly all be BPG dealers and will carry huge product lines between the 3 brands. BPG is essentially one brand with 3 flavors.

Edited December 1, 2006 by regfootball

[Robert Hall]

But isn't it more attractive to be present with a smaller crossover (the crossover segment is publicly percieved to be a growth segment), than it is to have another coupe or convertible?

222219[/snapback]

It's probably better to leave that niche to Pontiac (Torrent) or GMC..

A big luxury coupe/convertible (Zeta based, not an Epsilon like the G6) would be nice for Buick..but that would probably overlap with a possible CTS coupe/convertible..

Edited December 1, 2006 by moltar

[regfootball]

It's probably better to leave that niche to Pontiac (Torrent) or GMC..

A big luxury coupe/convertible (Zeta based, not an Epsilon like the G6) would be nice for Buick..but that would probably overlap with a possible CTS coupe/convertible..

222625[/snapback]

RIVIERA anyone? coupe and convertible...!

[drew770]

Again, GM needs to set a clear goal and purpose for Buick!!

Your luxury brand is Cadillac! Not Buick. Buick will never be another Acura or Infiniti no matter how much we think it should.

No one in their right mind would think that people that is looking at an TSX, TL or a G35 will go to a Buick dealer. Leave that for Caddy or Saab.

So what is Buick's purpose? American luxury? Or just a cheaper, slower, softer Caddy?

It's amazing Lexus is the top selling luxury brand by trying to be all to all people but GM has to divide themselves into 3 or 4 different brands to compete with single brands such as BMW, MB or Lexus.

It almost seems that if GM would focus on Caddy and expanded its lineup then GM wouldn't need a Buick.

Just my opinion and I know there are alot of Buick loyalist out there but lets get serious about if Toyota can grow with 3 brands why is GM shrinking with 8 brands? There comes a time that someone needs to really examine each brand and see if someone needs to go the way of Plymouth or Oldsmobile.

Can you imagine if Oldsmobile was still producing cars? What would be their purpose next to Buick, Caddy & Saab?

[ehaase]

Again, GM needs to set a clear goal and purpose for Buick!!

Your luxury brand is Cadillac!  Not Buick.  Buick will never be another Acura or Infiniti no matter how much we think it should.

No one in their right mind would think that people that is looking at an TSX, TL or a G35 will go to a Buick dealer.  Leave that for Caddy or Saab.

So what is Buick's purpose?  American luxury?  Or just a cheaper, slower, softer Caddy?

It's amazing Lexus is the top selling luxury brand by trying to be all to all people but GM has to divide themselves into 3 or 4 different brands to compete with single brands such as BMW, MB or Lexus.

It almost seems that if GM would focus on Caddy and expanded its lineup then GM wouldn't need a Buick.

Just my opinion and I know there are alot of Buick loyalist out there but lets get serious about if Toyota can grow with 3 brands why is GM shrinking with 8 brands? There comes a time that someone needs to really examine each brand and see if someone needs to go the way of Plymouth or Oldsmobile.

Can you imagine if Oldsmobile was still producing cars?  What would be their purpose next to Buick, Caddy & Saab?

222978[/snapback]

You make some excellent points again. I would argue that Buick's purpose should be a super plush Chevrolet, but some have gotten angry with me for saying that in the past.

[drew770]

You make some excellent points again.  I would argue that Buick's purpose should be a super plush Chevrolet, but some have gotten angry with me for saying that in the past.

223084[/snapback]

We have alot of people that would like to live in the "Glorious GM Past" but it is the distant past.

GM had all of these brands because back in the day there wasn't a strong Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Hyundai or Kia.

These car companies have shown GM that you can grow by providing a wide range of vehicles under very few brands.

GM is just the opposite. GM still thinks that they need a whole brand for 1 lousy segment!!

If you would ask Wagoner what is the difference between Pontiac & a Chevy he couldn't tell you!

The Lexus brand is the prime example of what focusing on a brand and not dividing yourself thin can do.

Toyota did not release Lexus until their house was in order and the same thing with Scion.

If Toyota was struggling do you think they would have wasted money on Scion, like GM does with some of these dying brands?

[Robert Hall]

You make some excellent points again.  I would argue that Buick's purpose should be a super plush Chevrolet, but some have gotten angry with me for saying that in the past.

223084[/snapback]

I think a lot of people on here still want it to be 1970.. notgoingtohappen.

[bcs296]

Again, GM needs to set a clear goal and purpose for Buick!!

Your luxury brand is Cadillac!  Not Buick.  Buick will never be another Acura or Infiniti no matter how much we think it should.

No one in their right mind would think that people that is looking at an TSX, TL or a G35 will go to a Buick dealer.  Leave that for Caddy or Saab.

So what is Buick's purpose?  American luxury?  Or just a cheaper, slower, softer Caddy?

It's amazing Lexus is the top selling luxury brand by trying to be all to all people but GM has to divide themselves into 3 or 4 different brands to compete with single brands such as BMW, MB or Lexus.

It almost seems that if GM would focus on Caddy and expanded its lineup then GM wouldn't need a Buick.

Just my opinion and I know there are alot of Buick loyalist out there but lets get serious about if Toyota can grow with 3 brands why is GM shrinking with 8 brands? There comes a time that someone needs to really examine each brand and see if someone needs to go the way of Plymouth or Oldsmobile.

Can you imagine if Oldsmobile was still producing cars?  What would be their purpose next to Buick, Caddy & Saab?

222978[/snapback]

It's about time people start coming around and realizing this. If GM had the 50%+ market share (and profitability for that matter) that it did many years ago, there might be room for the many brands that it has today.

Unfortunately, this is not the case. Times have changed and GM is JUST NOW beginning to adapt. When a company with 2 brands is on track to sell more cars than you globally, there is something wrong with your approach.

Anybody who doesn't accept this is stuck in the past (most likely because of their age) and has a bad case of denial.

Model overlap (IMO) is just as big of a problem for GM as the entire union issue and everything that goes along with it. It simply wastes resources and leads to a bunch of mediocre vehicles that compete against each other rather than fewer GREAT vehicles that sell in huge volume by taking market share from evil Toyota.

[thegriffon]

It's about time people start coming around and realizing this. If GM had the 50%+ market share (and profitability for that matter) that it did many years ago, there might be room for the many brands that it has today.

Unfortunately, this is not the case. Times have changed and GM is JUST NOW beginning to adapt. When a company with 2 brands is on track to sell more cars than you globally, there is something wrong with your approach.

Anybody who doesn't accept this is stuck in the past (most likely because of their age) and has a bad case of denial.

Model overlap (IMO) is just as big of a problem for GM as the entire union issue and everything that goes along with it. It simply wastes resources and leads to a bunch of mediocre vehicles that compete against each other rather than fewer GREAT vehicles that sell in huge volume by taking market share from evil Toyota.

223227[/snapback]

Yes, what was wrong was that unlike Toyota GM didn't sell it's strongest brands globally, something it's only starting to do now, nor does it compete in anywhere near as many vehicle segments as Toyota outside North America. It will take some time to catch up. To be fair you also have to realise that Toyota's global volume is not just 2 brands, it's 3, and in Japan it still has 6 separate sales channels, many with overlapping models.

In most global markets there are at least 3, if not 4 volume price segments spanning a wide range of vehicles, with at least two lower volume segments above those.

At the base you have low-price brands, Suzuki, Daihatsu, Hyundai, Kia, Chevrolet etc.

The main volume segment is occupied by brands such as Nissan, Toyota, Saturn/Opel, Peugeot, VW, Honda and in some markets Ford.

Some markets such as the US, China and Australia sustain a premium sector, In Australia this is brands such as Subaru, Mazda, Honda (selling Acura models as Hondas) and European imports. In the US it is occupied by a mix of more expensive midsize sedans from mainstream brands (Azera, Maxima), and cheaper models from luxury brands (MKZ, ES350, TL, CTS sedans and MKX, MDX and RX crossovers). Lexus has succeeded largely by identifying and occupying this niche between mainstream brands and more expensive luxury brands such as Mercedes-Benz and BMW. When they try and compete on equal terms, as with the GS series, they don't do nearly so well. As you can see Lincoln has set its sights firmly on this segment and they will probably do very well. With the right product Buick could occupy this segment as well, and there is sufficient, although lower volume here to keep dealers happy. A smaller midsize sedan like the TSX would help no end. Unfortunately Cadillac is unfocused and GM suffers as a result.

If you are going to emulate Toyota you reduce Chevrolet to subcompacts and commercials, pour all your mainstream development dollars into Saturn, dump Buick and give up all true luxury aspirations for Cadillac and focus on Acura and Lexus. Notgonnahappen. All your revenue disappears, you lose Asia and South America altogether and maybe, just maybe after a lot of work you reach maybe a 10% market share in the US in 50 years' time.

Or, you can do what GM is doing, and expand Chevrolet aggressively around the world to match Toyota's coverage. They still need a lot of work here, new models like a new compact pickup, a better lower-midsize sedan, global midsize SUV and crossover etc. You need a strong medium brand in the US. No problem, we have a strong lineup in Europe, let's bring it over, supplemented by more-US oriented product like the Aura. Lexus and Acura have volume that Cadillac just isn't getting at it's higher price points, so we push Buick upscale away from Saturn, aided by Chinese volume. We need a better LaCrosse, but that's coming, we need to push the Lucerne up in price and down in volume, certainly possible. Saab fills the Buick niche in other international markets, at least for now, and selling a few in the US is not too much trouble.

Pushing Cadillac upmarket is the biggest problem but is not insoluble. Global expansion is necessary to create sustainable volume. The CTS needs to become larger (done) and slightly more expensive (drop the base V6 and add a V8), likewise the STS needs to become a true large sedan again, dropping the V6 in the US and adding a lwb model. Focus more on interior volume and comfort and call the new vehicles DTS in the US.