More METAL

[razoredge]

Well Deftones got me go'in on these videos. This is my favorite band Savatage. Yea their old but this was in 87, from "Gutter Ballet" their 5 or 6th release. Forgive me if you guys have seen these videos, I rarely watched or watch MTV so I have seen very few. THis is a ballad of sorts but not "love", its about the feelings of a stage performer after the curtain draws closed for what may be the last time. Dont judge it from the opening. Simple song but from the heart, more commercial than most of their stuff. These guys were as much pioneers of "heavy metal" as Metalica or Iron Maiden - debut in 1983. But they have been too overlooked in my opinion.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=19...=Savatage&hl=en

for something heavier try

Gutter Ballet

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=45...=Savatage&hl=en

or "Jesus Saves" from "Streets - a rock opera"

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2...=Savatage&hl=en

[mustang84]

In a similar vein, Queensryche

I Don't Believe in Love

I got this off Google video...there's more on YouTube but it's having scheduled downtime right now

[Mr.Krinkle]

Its an illusion

[deftonesfan867]

Europe....ohhhhhhhh boy.

[razoredge]

In a similar vein, Queensryche

I Don't Believe in Love

I got this off Google video...there's more on YouTube but it's having scheduled downtime right now

221447[/snapback]

What a sound this band has...too bad the audio and video is out of time

1987 was an excellent year containing many of my favorite full plays

Mindcrime

Gutter Ballet

Whitesnake

Hysteria

OU812

[mustang84]

YouTube's up again

Probably my favorite song off Mindcrime...Tate's vocals are just unreal.

Queensryche - Eyes of a Stranger

[Mr.Krinkle]

Europe....ohhhhhhhh boy.

221991[/snapback]

HAHAH. You ever watch Arrested Development? You should. Only 2.5 seasons and quite possibly one of the best written shows...ever.

Razor, you seem to love the cheese metal, and I cant fault you for that, to each their own. ..Poison, white snake, great white, ...I kinda missed that boat but know plenty who dig it

The best thing about classic rock for me is everything I buy is always new. Grew up with Jimi (James Marshal) Hendrix, Sabbath, Cream, Airplane...the Dead,

FLOYD--perhaps my favorite right now...Echoes/Animals..The WAll....gilmours guitar work is absolutely fantastic...Primus. NIN, Ministry, ...just so many wonderful bands. You should check Bile, Hanzel and Gretel, and Titwrench... Pantera...poor Dime..RIP...NIrvana. (check serve the servants, opening track from in utero) Metallica...GNR...and so many more you havent heard of

SO many more to list...

Lots o' good stuff out there.

[razoredge]

Razor, you seem to love the cheese metal, and I cant fault you for that,  to each their own.  ..Poison, white snake, great white, ...I kinda missed that boat but know plenty who dig it

222100[/snapback]

I dont like cheese metal I like the best of the "pop metal" bands or at least the best of their work. The rest is non commercial.

Do not like Europe or Asia much, not enough ass or rowdy sound.

Do not like Poison

Dont really like Motely Crue - just a handfull of songs.

I like Great Whites "Rock Me" for its smokey blues hall sound

Ive never heard anyone call Van Halen cheezy, how can they ? Especially Sam Halen. Sammy was a pioneer and so was VanHalen, those that start movements, especially with that talent arent cheezy even if the type gets abused.

Im crazy about Cinderalla's song "Long Cold Winter" for one I have this thing about winter and the blues, but any Zeppelin fan knows LCW is the closest thing to "Since I've Been Loving You". Its a wicked powerful minor blues with smoking guitar.

Whitesnakes 87 release was anything but cheezy and it has 4 standout songs.

Hysteria - I like the production, they have thier own thing and Mutt Lange, it has its moments. I cant listen to heavy stuff all the time. Our daughter may have been concieved on a Hysteria or OU812 night.......

White Lions song "Leave me Alone" SMOKES ! HE did a pretty nice Stevie Ray Vaughan tribute on that album too. The rest I could care less about.

The rest of what I listen to which I play in their entirety - full library of Savatage, Dream Theater, Symphony X, Fates Warning, Iron Maiden, Megadeth plus all my older fusion recordings are far from cheezy and far from commercial.

My old rock stuff - Tull, Zeppelin, Uriah Heep, Deep Purple, early Chicago, Humble Pie, Montrose, Rush, Kansas, Crack the Sky, Mahagony Rush, Robin Trower.........not cheezy

I was always the least popular one at a party to have walk up to the turntable. When everyone wanted to listen to Foghat for the 5000th time or Blue Oyster Cult "Dont fear the Reeper" for the 10,000th time, or "Werewolfs of London" , or "Kiss" , or The Police, or The Cars. I appreaciate this stuff but.... it was cheezy

As for bands like Pantara, Exodus and modern "hard core" or "nu metal" that have guys that cant sing and pointless songs.........to me...thats mostly cheezy

Im thinking about buying a Motorhead recording.......whats the best one ?

[daves87rs]

Pantara..that's fun to listen to at 6 am...

As far as that music...I liked all different types... though I don't always remember the names...

[Cory Wolfe]

Where's the System of a Down?

[Cory Wolfe]

Finally got videos to work (damn PC). They take forever, though. So here's some SOAD.

A fair forewarning. If you're a Nickelback fan, you are most likely not going to like System of a Down. They are essentially the polar opposite to them. Their sound is much harder, much more unique, and much more complex. Most of this might make your head ache.

SOAD - Chop Suey! I haven't seen this video in ages. The song and the video are both favorites of mine. This is basically what started my love for the band. It's a great song.

SOAD - Aerials Another great song. This one is on the lighter side.

SOAD - Sugar An example of earlier SOAD material.

SOAD - Spiders Another example of that, but this one is softer.

SOAD - Question! Newer SOAD. I love this song.

SOAD - Innervision Ignore the video itself since this wasn't a single.

SOAD - Ego Brain Again, Ignore the video. I love this song as well, and used to have its lyrics in my sig.

SOAD - Hypnotize New SOAD again... and this is the last one I'll post.

Edited November 30, 2006 by blackviper8891

[razoredge]

I like SOAD, some at least, never bought an album. They might be too off the wall for me. The song they had on the radio... must have been 4 years ago I liked. The other song I remember from last year was kinda cool in the one part but then goes into some kind of a rant that makes no sence to be. I think they ruined the song. Not sure I would spend the money on them.

I'll listen to these a bit at a time.

[Cory Wolfe]

I like SOAD, some at least, never bought an album. They might be too off the wall for me. The song they had on the radio... must have been 4 years ago I liked. The other song I remember from last year was kinda cool in the one part but then goes into some kind of a rant that makes no sence to be. I think they ruined the song. Not sure I would spend the money on them.

I'll listen to these a bit at a time.

222378[/snapback]

It must have been Toxicity, Chop Suey!, or Aerials if it were 4 years ago. All three are great songs, too.

As far as the one from last year, it might have been BYOB. The rant might have been because SOAD is a very political/social band. Most of their songs focus on those issues, especially the older stuff. That song in particular, if its the one you're talking about, had mentions of the president and the war in Iraq.

[mjdecker]

Iron Maiden

Metallica

Death

Necrophagist

Cephalic Carnage

Frightmare

Slayer

Vader

[mustang84]

This song really rips it up...perfect mix of blues and rock n' roll. Meaty riffs, and the outro solo just simply kicks ass.

Great White - Rock Me

Another song in the same vein as the one above, also from '87:

Edited December 1, 2006 by mustang84

[mustang84]

And some heavier stuff

Powerful video and song about religion and abuse

W.A.S.P. - Arena of Pleasure

This is about as extreme as I go for metal...not really a fan of death and black metal, although some Mercyful Fate and Venom aren't too bad

Annihilator - Alison Hell

[Cory Wolfe]

More, because you love it.

SOAD - Toxicity

SOAD - BYOB

[deftonesfan867]

WTH have I started here

[C.H.U.D.]

Beneath the Massacre

Baroness

Burst

Glass Casket

Dillinger Escape Plan

Shadows Fall (A little singing for the ladies in the room )

This is the basic range of my metal tastes right now, just to give you an idea.

Can't forget, there's also my favorite metal band of all time :

Art Of Convulsion

[aaaantoine]

The lead singer from Dillinger Escape Plan ended his Gigantour 2005 Jones Beach performance by jumping off the stage into the nearby water. Fun stuff. Extremely energetic in concert. Though, not exactly pleasant to listen to.

, on the other hand...

[razoredge]

It must have been Toxicity, Chop Suey!, or Aerials if it were 4 years ago. All three are great songs, too.

As far as the one from last year, it might have been BYOB. The rant might have been because SOAD is a very political/social band. Most of their songs focus on those issues, especially the older stuff. That song in particular, if its the one you're talking about, had mentions of the president and the war in Iraq.

222475[/snapback]

It was Aerials, I made it as far as Spiders last night, which I also liked. If I was still in a band we would definantly be doing Aerials.The first one was funny but like I said, too off the wall and the 3rd one is a style I detest. The other one I was talking about is something about "going to a party, gonna have a real good time", I think its about Iraq. The one part really smokes with a great groove and riff but that other part "sucks". I never liked songs that changed radically anyhow, like fusing two songs together... but still that other part "sucks" .

Deftones - you started a good thing

Mustang - knows good music [opinion]. We were starting to learn a song by WASP but I forget which one. The drummer chose it. I learned Rock Me but no one wanted to play it because it challenged their testosterone level..... "its not heavy enough" "its not fast enough". I got them to play Dont Treat Me Bad and Dont Walk Away ... big Firehouse fan here, fun music, great riffs, origional homegrown solos, awsome alto vocalist, decent lyrics - Hold Your Fire is an excellent song.

No one gave me any insite on this Dragonforce ? Unknown ?

My next ventures are going to be Camalot - Epica - and another I found and cant remember the name. Their more of that Epic/Concept/Melodic/Symphonic progressive power metal I have always listened to, great working music for the shop. Brought in my Alter Bridge CD and cranked it last night along with Hendrix Bold as Love.......I still think Alter Bridge a great piece of music, but its leans toward old school and that suits me.

[Mr.Krinkle]

im very opionated when it comes to music. I have to be. But this is some of the stuff i could scrounge up...Some of the sound quality might not be there, but what do you expect.?

razor, theres a show on friday night called Friday Night Ricks. Eddie Trunk's Friday Night Rocks and I think it was mde for you. Its on at 11 I think, and im pretty sure its syndicated...if not you can probably catch it at q1043.com....

heres just a couple of songs...just a few things are I think are worth listening to at least just once..

walk

southbound pachyderm

electric uncle sam

master of puppets

primus seas of cheese

http://youtube.com/watch?v=n8eRge7S2DM john the fisherman

http://youtube.com/watch?v=tRWy7M48jvI great video...watch mr. krinkle

and no... not entirely.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9AJYa58Zg80&mode=related&search=

http://youtube.com/watch?v=-WwB84z_fTA jimi..liste to the drums ...and playing with his teeth.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=3WQAG_I1q6I&mode=related&search= jimi

http://youtube.com/watch?v=YXm5fVNVZzw cowboys from hell

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hc_i4VlstTc ministry stigmata

http://youtube.com/watch?v=a04cKaUdlbs&mode=related&search= nwo

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7B-Ke_MnZrk&mode=related&search= lay lady lay

http://youtube.com/watch?v=XRNrFCXHD0k&mode=related&search= pasalm 69

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0kRgVyQOZWk hg take me to your leader

primus lacquerhead Edited December 4, 2006 by Mr.Krinkle

[Cory Wolfe]

It was Aerials, I made it as far as Spiders last night, which I also liked. If I was still in a band we would definantly be doing Aerials.The first one was funny but like I said, too off the wall and the 3rd one is a style I detest. The other one I was talking about is something about "going to a party, gonna have a real good time", I think its about Iraq. The one part really smokes with a great groove and riff but that other part "sucks". I never liked songs that changed radically anyhow, like fusing two songs together... but still that other part "sucks"  .

222955[/snapback]

Yeah, I love Aerials and Spiders. If you like those, I'd check out Innervision, Ego Brain, Roulette, and Streamline. Those are just from "Steal This Album!" It has a good mix of song styles on it. I could see you liking half of it, but hating the other half. However, other than a few songs, I could see you liking the album "Hypnotize". Ofcourse, you should find someone who has it and listen to it first. But it is probably the easiest SOAD album to listen to if you're not into their more radical stuff.

As I thought, that's BYOB. SOAD typically does songs of that style with the "90 degree turns" as some call it. I personally like it, being a Queen fan as well (Bohemian Rhapsody, anybody?).

[razoredge]

As I thought, that's BYOB. SOAD typically does songs of that style with the "90 degree turns" as some call it. I personally like it, being a Queen fan as well (Bohemian Rhapsody, anybody?).

223070[/snapback]

From a musical standpoint Bohemian Rhapsody flows from one change to the next as does most progressive rock and metal. Zeppelins - Ramble On is another early example. The radical changes are another thing. THere are a few songs over my earlier history that did it but I cant think of them. Never thought it was creative but more elementary. Its takes more creative effort to flow a large picture together smoothly and precisely like Bohemian Rapsody or Stairway to Heaven than simply do something off the wall for kicks. It really ruins it for me when Im getting into a song and then suddenly it goes all to hell.

Queens debut recording is a must have for any rockers. Great King Rat, Liar, Keep Yourself Alive, the entire recording was great. "Doing Alright" changes radically, I would have rather had two separate songs built on.

Krinkle ! - Do you think you could add another 20 to that list.........that will disappear into the dusty archieves long before I get around to them ??????

Just a few at a time guys.......geeze !

[Mr.Krinkle]

Krinkle ! - Do you think you could add another 20 to that list.........that will disappear into the dusty archieves long before I get around to them ?????? 

Just a few at a time guys.......geeze ! 

223107[/snapback]

haha...guess i did go a little overboard...save the shortcuts in notepad or something, then copy and paste them.

Thats how I have them saved...no biggy.

[aaaantoine]

Another DT performance. This is from their 20th anniversary performance. For this show, they hired an orchestra to help em out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNp4tMcpM10...related&search=

[razoredge]

haha...guess i did go a little overboard...save the shortcuts in notepad or something, then copy and paste them.

Thats how I have them saved...no biggy.

223127[/snapback]

Can I save these ? If so how ? I dont mean the adresses I mean the file or clip or whatever it is.

Im a bit when it comes to computers. Limited

[mustang84]

Mustang - knows good music [opinion]. We were starting to learn a song by WASP but I forget which one. The drummer chose it. I learned Rock Me but no one wanted to play it because it challenged their testosterone level..... "its not heavy enough" "its not fast enough". I got them to play Dont Treat Me Bad and Dont Walk Away ... big Firehouse fan here, fun music, great riffs, origional homegrown solos, awsome alto vocalist, decent lyrics - Hold Your Fire is an excellent song.

222955[/snapback]

So you used to be in a band? What type of music did you guys play?

Firehouse rocks. Hold Your Fire is probably my favorite song by them...it sounds completely original from a lot of the rock that was coming out at that time. And the great thing about Firehouse is that even though a lot of bands from that era have kicked the bucket, they're still putting out great music to this day. They haven't put themselves through the modern rock strainer that most bands went through to make themselves sound "in" with the times...they just keep putting out great music without worrying what pop culture thinks.

[FAPTurbo]

Normally, I chime in on these threads, but it's got way to much metal for me.

[razoredge]

So you used to be in a band?  What type of music did you guys play?

Firehouse rocks.  Hold Your Fire is probably my favorite song by them...it sounds completely original from a lot of the rock that was coming out at that time.  And the great thing about Firehouse is that even though a lot of bands from that era have kicked the bucket, they're still putting out great music to this day.  They haven't put themselves through the modern rock strainer that most bands went through to make themselves sound "in" with the times...they just keep putting out great music without worrying what pop culture thinks.

223275[/snapback]

THe stuff we played for bar gigs was rock and some pop metal. It was the early 90's. These Firehouse songs were new then. We did some old stuff like Jailhouse Rock, Never been any Reason, Green Grass and Hightides, Bad Company, ZZ Top I cant even remember them all, seems like it was just over 30 songs. I didnt like playing bars and cover songs.

The last we were working on was a concept project of origionals, over 60 minutes, it was progressive metal I suppose but I drew stuff from many styles that was fused into a more metal sound. The bass player/vocalist co writers influences were Maiden/Tull/Fates Warning, so we jived really well. Lots of changeups, instrumental bridges. A few were straight up. That was alot of fun, much more fun that practicing those covers week after week.

[Mr.Krinkle]

Can I save these ? If so how ? I dont mean the adresses I mean the file or clip or whatever it is.

Im a bit  when it comes to computers. Limited

223208[/snapback]

Yeah man, just highlight with the left mouse button , hit the right click and copy and then paste it into a program like notepad. It should be in "accessories". Its easier for me to do it like that.

My thing with music is this--Its like lightning in a bottle. You think of Zep for instance and Robert Plants vocals. Would he have been the success if it wasnt for the other guys in the band? and the melodies that gel with Paige so well?

Or Sabbath...or any of the ones that are considered great.

People play and people jam but when it comes down to it there is a chemistry and

its almost alive when everythings hitting. I think you would like Primus because of the guitarwork...Very,very talented band all around Les Claypools vocals are somewhat of an acquired taste but is one heck of a bass player.

The grateful dead were very much like that. Lightning in a bottle. There was always a point in their show when everything came together and just made sense...Im not a dead head, although I like them a little too much, and would never...ever push it on anyone...but lyrically and musically regarding Jerry he was the man. Reminds me of a joke: whatd one deadhead say to the other when they ran out of pot? Damn this music sucks! I understand most people sell them short... but Live...wow.

ok done now....sorry about the book. To sum up. Yes, you can save all of them.

[razoredge]

Seems to me Primus is all about the bass. Great bass player. Goofy music. One of the local musicians around here goofs up the lyrics and singing in many cover tunes. Now that I hear this I wonder where it came from. Zappa was goofy then theirs Wierd Al......now I hear Primus.........

Love the bass playin though. My Daugher just borrowed Rhinoplasty, mostly covers. The Stanley Clarke tune speaks for itself.

You are so right about the chemistry, thats what its all about. So many musicians never get it back after a band breaks.

[Mr.Krinkle]

Seems to me Primus is all about the bass. Great bass player. Goofy music. One of the local musicians around here goofs up the lyrics and singing in many cover tunes. Now that I hear this I wonder where it came from. Zappa was goofy then theirs Wierd Al......now I hear Primus.........

Love the bass playin though. My Daugher just borrowed Rhinoplasty, mostly covers. The Stanley Clarke tune speaks for itself.

You are so right about the chemistry, thats what its all about. So many musicians never get it back after a band breaks.

223553[/snapback]

Yes and no about the bass. He does so much with the bass lines the drums and guitars have little room to fill in the empty spaces. Ler Lalonde was a metal player in previous bands and does a tremendous job filling the gaps when you listen. Very talented and very neglected/underrated as a pro.

Rhinoplasty is a good album for what it is. Different drummer--Brain, currently in GNR. Antipop is a superb album. That was technically their last. All the others up until Tales from the punchbowl are their best examples.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=n8eRge7S2DM john the fisherman from Frizzle Fry the first studio release.

If you can find a cut of Tommy the Cat from Sailing the Seas of Cheese with Tom Waits on vocals, youll probably dig it.

I like scissor man and amos moses on Rhinoplasty. I think a live copy of Tommy the Cat is on there as well...not exactly the same.

[Mr.Krinkle]

Tommy the Cat w/ Tom Waits

http://youtube.com/watch?v=09i5aig0IxI

[Cory Wolfe]

SOAD fans need to check out some of their unreleased stuff. Patterns is just awesome. Snowblind and The Metro are sweet. Temper and Marmalade are cool. Starlit Eyes and Honey are interesting. Check them out... somehow.

[Mr.Krinkle]

SOAD fans need to check out some of their unreleased stuff. Patterns is just awesome. Snowblind and The Metro are sweet. Temper and Marmalade are cool. Starlit Eyes and Honey are interesting. Check them out... somehow.

224282[/snapback]

I was digging SOAD at first...but they became too anti-American for my tastes soon after. It was in that condescending worship us kind of attitude. A lot of their stuff now is just too disjolted and erratic for me to think of them as anything more than a gimmick...Probably put on a good live show and they do have lots of fans...If they plan on sticking around their next album will be an almost about face and entirely different, imo.

the most ironic part i always found is that they are on the American Records label.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=a04cKaUdlbs&mode=related&search= Ministry NWO

Edited December 6, 2006 by Mr.Krinkle

[Cory Wolfe]

Hah... They're not anti American, just highly political and social. If they're anti anything, it's war. More than a few songs deal with that, whether it be the Iraq war or the Armenian Genocide their grandparents survived. I have all their songs, the lyrics to all the songs, etc... If anyone would know, it would be me. As far as their stuff becoming too disjolted and erratic, that's odd since each ablum after their first got softer and softer. Hypnotize is almost too soft and too... normal for some SOAD fans. I still love it, though it can't compare to Toxicity, my favorite of theirs. So yeah, you must not know what you're talking about.

Anyways, you guys... Razor, too... try to find a way to listen to Patterns. Its awesome.

[Mr.Krinkle]

Hah... They're not anti American, just highly political and social. If they're anti anything, it's war. More than a few songs deal with that, whether it be the Iraq war or the Armenian Genocide their grandparents survived. I have all their songs, the lyrics to all the songs, etc... If anyone would know, it would be me. As far as their stuff becoming too disjolted and erratic, that's odd since each ablum after their first got softer and softer. Hypnotize is almost too soft and too... normal for some SOAD fans. I still love it, though it can't compare to Toxicity, my favorite of theirs. So yeah, you must not know what you're talking about.

Anyways, you guys... Razor, too... try to find a way to listen to Patterns. Its awesome.

224481[/snapback]

In short, i liked them--they could not keep up their sound and resorted to more gimmicky music and antics that is musically out of sync and awkward--disjolted erratic have nothing to do with being soft or hard. Try to stay focused ok

id explain it to you but i have a feeling it would be a complete and total waste of my time.

The nice thing about being that young is you dont even know yet what you dont know. Try not letting that interfere just because you may like something

and they are anti-American. Thats a fact jack...you were what 10 when they first came about??

[Mr.Krinkle]

I see you writing down there and its either going to be a novel or something im probably not going to care to wait around to read...maybe later.

[Cory Wolfe]

In short, i liked them--they could not keep up their sound and resorted to more gimmicky music and antics that is musically out of sync and awkward--disjolted erratic have nothing to do with being soft or hard. Try to stay focused   ok

id explain it to you but i have a feeling it would be a complete and total waste of my time.

The nice thing about being that young is you dont even know yet what you dont know.  Try not letting that interfere just because you may like something

and they are anti-American.  Thats a fact jack...you were what 10 when they first came about??

224528[/snapback]

Someone's bitter. Take some Midol... Does wonders.

As far as all that, I'm not sure what my age has to do with any of that. Whether I was 10, or 33, when they first came out is irrelevant. That does not make me suddenly unable to know what they're about. I'm not saying I know all about them, I'm sure there are some SOAD fans that could put me to shame. However, when I like something, I look into it. This isn't liking something blind. Someone who got into SOAD at first, was turned off later, happens to have a few years on me, and likes to play the age card that's implying he therefore knows more about them? Exactly where is that getting you? I got into SOAD fully, you stopped. Don't try to turn this on me because I happen to like them while you think their sound became erratic and disjolted and they're supposedly "Anti American". To my knowledge and in my opinion, that's a bunch of BS. Instead of being a hypocrite, try to show proof of them being anti American, and not just berate me for some unjust reason. Until then... I laugh in spite of you.

[Mr.Krinkle]

A.D.D. for one. Mostly gibberish not worth my time really

They did change their tune on the latest album if you were paying attention and was more about sex and drugs and just plain odd for the sake of being odd. Running out of ideas..terracotta terracotta banana pie?? Theyll be a footnote in music unless they do something worthwhile again...right now its nonsensacle gibberish.

dont feel so bad. i remember when i found out jimi hendrix was dead. or heard the infamous l.a. forum concert.

shoulda quit after sugar. la la lala lalalalalala lalalala.

dont take it so personally. No ones out to get you, at least im not.

[Cory Wolfe]

I didn't take it personally, I just didn't understand why you sounded so bitter and mentioned something as irrelevant as age. I thought it was funny more than anything and just wanted you say something meaningful.

As for those songs, that's a style SOAD didn't start doing those out of the blue. Sugar is done in that style as is Ddevil and Peephole. On Toxicity, there's Needles, Bounce, Shimmy, and Psycho. STA, there's Chic N Stu, IEAIAIO, and Pictures. How are they any different?

And ADD? It's about the American government and war. SOAD is very political and social, forget? That does not make them anti American. If anything, it makes them the exact opposite. "The remainder is, An unjustifiable, egotistical, power struggle, At the expense of the American Dream, Of the American Dream, of the American, Of the American." Yeah.

[Mr.Krinkle]

No band would cop to being anti-American if they want to sell a lot of records commercially. I understand they are anti everything. I Just wanted to add--I gave them tremendous props when they first started hitting it big. I thought they were different in a good way esp after the lameness of the late 90's music. that is still going on now unfortunately...

Nirvana, Alice in Chains, Pearl Jam on and off-could prob write a book on them alone...Tool. etc etc. But these were too far and few.

My Chemical Romance right now has some decent cuts. I listened not too long ago. Not the radio ones as much...Theres not that many others, imo.

There are other examples but this was relatively easy for me to find in as much of the timing of it. A pretty quick pr campaign ensued shortly after and all was back to "normal" This was when I started to listen to them differently.

SOAD's contribution to the post-9-11 discourse didn't stop with their release date. Shortly after the attacks, Tankian, like many celebrities, was asked by various music news organizations to give his reaction to the events. He responded with a lengthy tract that tried to place the attacks in the context of U.S. foreign policy, touching on everything from Iraqi sanctions to America's alleged complicity in the Armenian genocide, in exchange for oil rights. The statement (since archived at angelfire.com/ok3/soad/speech. html) was mostly notable for Tankian's insistence that Americans should understand the terrorists' possible motives. "Terror is not a spontaneous human action," he wrote. "People don't just hijack planes without any weight of thought to the action."

The 33-year-old Tankian is no latter-day Dave Mustaine—his politics are clearly, for the most part, the product of protracted research and reflection. Tankian's timing pissed off a lot of people, however, and a few days later he appeared on Howard Stern's show to apologize for addressing the attacks in clinical terms so soon after the fact. The controversy over Tankian's comments mirrored the debate already fomenting on the left (and when was the last time you could say that about a band?) between those who attempted, as Christopher Hitchens derisively put it, to "rationalize" the terrorists' actions, and those who thought such explanations were either irrelevant, morally suspect, or ill timed. Like many left commentators, Tankian settled for a tentative rapprochement: He issued another statement expressing sympathy for the victims and praising the U.S. for supporting Armenian orphanages after the genocide.

http://www.villagevoice.com/music/0141,milner,28865,22.html

It wasnt the time or the place. Bill Maher pulled the same $h! and it pissed me off, but him I dont mind now.

SOAD never lived up to my own hype after that. I havent had the stomach for the latest stuff because it sounds too contrived to me. I still listen to the Dead Kennedy's for instance...with them its still political but the messages are more clear. Like i said at the start, for me it was with them being anti-American. Just didnt jive with me.

[razoredge]

First of all............KNOCK IT OFF !................

Secondly System of a Down is to radical, off the wall, confused direction for the sake of lack of better things to do.......my opinion off course.

I really dont listen to that type of music cept on the radio, anyhow.

If you want good deep intelligent multi versed music you listen to prog metal...Dream Theater, Symphony X, Fates Warning, Savatage, Queensryche....it goes down hill slowly from there......... if you guys werent such a bunch of grasshoppers you would know this.............

Yea, Im a jerk........

seriously now - a bit of trivia about 9-11. Regarding Dream Theater, read this, its very interesting

The cover for the CD version of the concert, titled Live Scenes From New York, showed one of Dream Theater's early logos (the Images And Words-era burning heart, modeled on the Sacred Heart) modified to show an apple instead of the heart, as an allusion to the Big Apple nickname given to New York City. In the flames above the apple was shown the New York City skyline, including the twin towers of the World Trade Center. In an unfortunate coincidence, the album was released on September 11, 2001 - the same day as the terrorist attack on the World Trade Center. The album was immediately recalled, but many copies were snapped up by Dream Theater collectors as a very rare piece of Dream Theater's history. It was re-released with revised artwork a short time later.

For pictures of these two album covers go here and scroll down till you see the flamin apple pictures...........is that crazy or what ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dream_Theater

anyhow, regarding Krinkles views on this guy in the band. First everyone knows I have little use for some races of people when they are in my country, riding the capitolism gravy train. Some find it offensive but I really dont care. I busted my ass, my life...for nothing...so I dont feel sorry nor have compassion for anyone, especially those that would not get off their ass's and fix the problems in their own countries, but rather buy the airplane ticket and come here and cram their cultures down our throats.

but forget all that, thats my bigoted opinion

I dont approve of what these people did, I find it enrageing, and am as pissed as anyone over the cowardly attack, I also was not surprised, but then I remember the air plane hyjackings of the late 60's early 70's. I remember seeing entire cities of these idiots, chanting "kill America" shooting guns in the air like crazed lunitics. I remember decade after decade of insanity in the land of sand. I see huge arogant temples in the sky built by slave labor. I have no respect for these people and never will have. I have also had bad personal experiences and never a good one...so ?

now moving on

Those innocent people or rescuers that were lost is a tragady for their families but Wall Street itself sucks ! If theres some dead lawyers or dead traders or law makers....like Shakespear said..."its a start".......... I in fact said within a week from the time it happened : "too bad I was not down there when it happened, I would be worth more to my family than living out my life" That is the shameful truth, I did the math on the money collected for the familys. People die all the time, in the end, this thing we call life... none of it matters. What does matter is for the living. Our government, American corporations, and Wall Street investors/traders are responsible for far more suffering within our own country that this attack. But its not called an attack if people suffer in the name of capitolism...thats all legal... Its not considered a heartless attack of terriorism to steal peoples pensions, annual pay raises or worse yet...their jobs, source of income... its all legal...

but forget that personal opinion of mine..which bears no truth......

as enraged or hurt or stunned as we the living were that day, who can honestly say that the message sent by the destruction of...."The World Trade Centers" was not more than obvious within minutes ? If it didnt click within minutes, one must be thick. The World Trade Centers, The Pentagon all repressive, underhanded establishments except for the sake of the fortunante minority.

So, I dont condone a few things that have gone on, way down yonder, wall street way.

Me anti American ?......... question is are the 1 Wall Street types anti American ? Thats the question I would like to see a positive answer to.

So with that and too much more said, while I didnt have the reaction to 9-11 this " tankian" had I do know where he's coming from.

So bring on that anti American establishment music, thats what alot of metal and hard rock has been about since the beginning anyhow.

[Mr.Krinkle]

First of all............KNOCK IT OFF !................

Secondly System of a Down is to radical, off the wall, confused direction for the sake of lack of better things to do.......my opinion off course.

I really dont listen to that type of music cept on the radio, anyhow.

If you want good deep intelligent multi versed music you listen to prog metal...Dream Theater, Symphony X, Fates Warning, Savatage, Queensryche....it goes down hill slowly from there......... if you guys werent such a bunch of grasshoppers you would know this.............   

Yea, Im a jerk........

seriously now - a bit of trivia about 9-11. Regarding Dream Theater, read this, its very interesting

  The cover for the CD version of the concert, titled Live Scenes From New York, showed one of Dream Theater's early logos (the Images And Words-era burning heart, modeled on the Sacred Heart) modified to show an apple instead of the heart, as an allusion to the Big Apple nickname given to New York City. In the flames above the apple was shown the New York City skyline, including the twin towers of the World Trade Center. In an unfortunate coincidence, the album was released on September 11, 2001 - the same day as the terrorist attack on the World Trade Center. The album was immediately recalled, but many copies were snapped up by Dream Theater collectors as a very rare piece of Dream Theater's history. It was re-released with revised artwork a short time later.

For pictures of these two album covers go here and scroll down till you see the flamin apple pictures...........is that crazy or what ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dream_Theater

anyhow, regarding Krinkles views on this guy in the band. First everyone knows I have little use for some races of people when they are in my country, riding the capitolism gravy train. Some find it offensive but I really dont care. I busted my ass, my life...for nothing...so I dont feel sorry nor have compassion for anyone, especially those that would not get off their ass's and fix the problems in their own countries, but rather buy the airplane ticket and come here and cram their cultures down our throats.

but forget all that, thats my bigoted opinion

I dont approve of what these people did, I find it enrageing, and am as pissed as anyone over the cowardly attack, I also was not surprised, but then I remember the air plane hyjackings of the late 60's early 70's. I remember seeing entire cities of these idiots, chanting "kill America" shooting guns in the air like crazed lunitics. I remember decade after decade of insanity in the land of sand. I see huge arogant temples in the sky built by slave labor. I have no respect for these people and never will have. I have also had bad personal experiences and never a good one...so ?

now moving on

Those innocent people or rescuers that were lost is a tragady for their families but Wall Street itself sucks ! If theres some dead lawyers or dead traders or law makers....like Shakespear said..."its a start"..........   I in fact said within a week from the time it happened : "too bad I was not down there when it happened, I would be worth more to my family than living out my life" That is the shameful truth, I did the math on the money collected for the familys. People die all the time, in the end, this thing we call life... none of it matters. What does matter is for the living. Our government, American corporations, and Wall Street investors/traders are responsible for far more suffering within our own country that this attack. But its not called an attack if people suffer in the name of capitolism...thats all legal... Its not considered a heartless attack of terriorism to steal peoples pensions, annual pay raises or worse yet...their jobs, source of income... its all legal... 

but forget that personal opinion of mine..which bears no truth......

as enraged or hurt or stunned as we the living were that day, who can honestly say that the message sent by the destruction of...."The World Trade Centers" was not more than obvious within minutes ? If it didnt click within minutes, one must be thick. The World Trade Centers, The Pentagon all repressive, underhanded establishments except for the sake of the fortunante minority.

So, I dont condone a few things that have gone on, way down yonder, wall street way.

Me anti American ?.........   question is are the 1 Wall Street types anti American ? Thats the question I would like to see a positive answer to.

So with that and too much more said, while I didnt have the reaction to 9-11 this " tankian" had I do know where he's coming from.

So bring on that anti American establishment music, thats what alot of metal and hard rock has been about since the beginning anyhow.

224784[/snapback]

I have no problems with Dream Theaters music.

There was a rap album that had the same problem with the cover. Except the two were holding a remote control and pushing a detonate button with it exploding...Its no shock. Its the very reason it was attacked and destroyed. Its a target and a symbol of all thats right and wrong with America.

You missed my point about why I dont care for SOAD in particular before you went off on the tangent--something I think we agree on. Odd for the sake of being odd..

Cant let this one go:

Wall st. and World Trade are not the same.. They were giant office buildings that housed all sorts of tenants. Linking it solely to what you consider wall st. is plain wrong. Wake up. Innocent men/women/and probably children vaporized and pulverized into dust and breathed in by people like me and everyone else within ear shot. I can still smell that stink at times to this day.

TV doesnt do it justice and I understaand being removed from it. I do. That attackwas a message to everyone in this country and if you fail to recognize that it is a shame.

An horrible shame.

Freedom of speech and healthy criticism is welcome. Music has always been political. I wouldnt have it any other way. CSNY, country joe, dylan, dead kennedys, RAGE(before he blew a fuse), reagan youth, ...almost any punk...so thats not my beef with SOAD. It goes beyond that and is more

about the music like you said...Its warped and contrived and phony. Started off fine and then they became a let down to me. Their issues with America was only the icing.

If I were to agree with anything else you said we'd both be wrong...Its gotta be nice to live that secluded and ignorant. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions but Razor, I think anyone who just read what you wrote is now a little dumber.

[razoredge]

I have no problems with Dream Theaters music.

There was a rap album that had the same problem with the cover.  Except the two were holding a remote control and pushing a detonate button with it exploding...Its no shock.  Its the very reason it was attacked and destroyed.  Its a target and a symbol of all thats right and wrong with America.

You missed my point about why I dont care for SOAD in particular before you went off on the tangent--something I think we agree on.  Odd for the sake of being odd..

Cant let this one go:

Wall st. and World Trade are not the same.. They were giant office buildings that housed all sorts of tenants.  Linking it solely to what you consider wall st. is plain wrong.  Wake up.  Innocent men/women/and probably children vaporized and pulverized into dust and breathed in by people like me and everyone else within ear shot.  I can still smell that stink at times to this day.

TV doesnt do it justice and I understaand being removed from it.  I do.  That attackwas a message to everyone in this country and if you fail to recognize that it is a shame.

An horrible shame.

Freedom of speech  and healthy criticism is welcome.  Music has always been political.  I wouldnt have it any other way.  CSNY, country joe, dylan, dead kennedys, RAGE(before he blew a fuse), reagan youth, ...almost any punk...so thats not my beef with SOAD.  It goes beyond that and is more

about the music like you said...Its warped and contrived and phony.  Started off fine and then they became  a let down to me.  Their issues with America was only the icing. 

If I were to agree with anything else you said we'd both be wrong...Its gotta be nice to live that secluded and ignorant.  Everyone is entitled to their own opinions but Razor, I think anyone who just read what you wrote is now a little dumber. 

224822[/snapback]

the thing about Dream Theaters album cover was the coincidence of it, I guess that one went right past you. Please pay attention

I missed no point nor went on tangent. Expansion is only a tangent if you cant keep up or lack realistic vision.

wall street, world trade and the people behind both are evil, selfish and the very meaning of the word anti, hardly a coinscience that they are both in the same place.

if you feel someone is stupid because what I believe or that I am stupid for what I believe, you are the dumb one. I have no ignorance what so ever, ignorance is for the inexperienced, deaf, dumb and blind. Ignorance is for those that cant see it from their house therefore believe it doesnt exist. If you havent been there you shouldnt speak words such as ignorance and secluded, a bit contradictory no ? To me the worse thing about 9-11 is the America that it was targeted at didnt learn a damn thing, didnt pay the price, just passed the buck and made up their losses from the oil industry, increased insurance rates and real estate assessments. Its still business as usual.

[Mr.Krinkle]

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/thecoup.htm

  but Wall Street itself sucks ! If theres some dead lawyers or dead traders or law makers....like Shakespear said..."its a start"..........  I in fact said within a week from the time it happened : "too bad I was not down there when it happened, I would be worth more to my family than living out my life"

thats where you lost me.

but i agree with your last point...business as usual.

Edited December 7, 2006 by Mr.Krinkle

[Cory Wolfe]

It wasnt the time or the place.  Bill Maher pulled the same $h! and it pissed me off, but him I dont mind now.

224614[/snapback]

I can see why, then. I'm also a fan of Bill Maher.

[razoredge]

  but Wall Street itself sucks ! If theres some dead lawyers or dead traders or law makers....like Shakespear said..."its a start"..........  I in fact said within a week from the time it happened : "too bad I was not down there when it happened, I would be worth more to my family than living out my life"

William Shakespear had some famous qoute that went something like "What do you call one dead lawyer ? " ................ " A good start "

I too also believe this. I have no use for lawyers, politician (law makers) and most of all capitolist pig investors, frenzy crazed "traders" and high level corporate employees. As they find the loss of our jobs or lifestyles insignificent I find their lives insignificent, they could drop like autumn leafs from a sugar maple and I would only smile and look forward to the next season.

[Mr.Krinkle]

Thanks for showing us the silver lining but maybe you should go back and sit at the kiddy table, now. Honestly, man...you are confusing the issues. Yes, dead lawyers...its a start...but this was a f@#k you to me and you and everyone else with the priveledge of internets and computers and onlines...Theres a bigger picture at stake here, and we all have to deal with it.

Edited December 8, 2006 by Mr.Krinkle