GM Minivan Plans Panned

[Variance]

GM Minivan Plans Panned

General Motors Corp. may be bowing out of the minivan business.

Faced with a steep drop in demand for the family vehicles, GM confirmed Tuesday that it has scrapped plans to build new minivan models that would have debuted as early as 2009 under Chevrolet, Saturn and other nameplates.

While GM declined to comment on future vehicle plans, company insiders told The Detroit News that the company has no immediate plans to build minivans after it closes its last minivan-producing plant. The Doraville, Ga., plant builds the slow-selling Chevrolet Uplander and Buick Terraza minivans. It recently stopped producing the Saturn Relay.

The Detroit News

[Dsuupr]

This goes the other way with the spy photo. Wonder what that is all about.

[Paolino]

Their products were so inferior. If they built a truly revolutionary minivan, it would sell.

[Dragon]

First Ford, now GM. Maybe there is a God afterall.

[pow]

The Outlook, Acadia, and Enclave are minivans in disguise.

[CSpec]

I think this makes sense. Demand for minivans has been falling greatly, and GM was reducing sales estimates repeatedly for these new vans. This frees up production capacity and resources for making other models.

[aaaantoine]

Why not build a Lambda variant with sliding rear doors?

Wouldn't that qualify as a "minivan"?

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

Too bad GM simply gives up instead bothering to try and do something right, in this case anyway. I only like the wheels, some colors, and Chevy front end, but otherwise I have always hated these vans, and so has everyone else. The poor crash ratings haven't helped the ancient/average-from-the-start design either.

[Matt276]

GM should not give up the market, but build just one version, a Chevrolet. The current ones are just awful.

[PurdueGuy]

Why not build a Lambda variant with sliding rear doors?

Wouldn't that qualify as a "minivan"?

218697[/snapback]

Exactly! Just build a lambda with sliding doors and unique sheetmetal, slap a bowtie on it, and at least you have a product for that segment! To not have any minivan in the whole company just seems shortsighted.

[NINETY EIGHT REGENCY]

GM could solve the minivan problem easy. The solution is in this thread.

Chopped image (courtesy of familycar.com)

That minivan in this thread would solve two problems.

GM could create minivans off the crossovers and change the rear styling and add the sliding doors( minivan features). They could use the lambda platform as stated and the crossovers and minivans would occupy the same space on the dealer lots. It is cost effective too. The product would adjust whatever is popular in the market. Chevy would get a version which would be the minivan. The interiors would be similar for the minivans and crossovers.

The set up would be:

Chevy - minivan( the front end would be unique to Chevy, but share Saturn headlights)( interior would be very Chevy (akin to the new 2008 Malibu)

Saturn minvan and crossover ( just like the photo in this thread). They would differ in the doors and the rear styling.

Buick- minivan (share front end with Enclave and "some" interior features, but different rear styling.)

GMC crossover(Acadia)

The Chevy,Saturn and Buick would share the liftgate,the taillamps in the back.

You could use the existing factory scheduled and other factory not being used.

3 minivans, 3 crossovers. A total of six vehicles off the same platform share partsa you do not see and some you do.

AWD would be offered too.

Edited November 22, 2006 by NINETY EIGHT REGENCY

[z28luvr01]

I agree - at least one GM minivan is needed. Why, because there are those out there that default to buying a minivan once they get kids. Honestly, the Lambdas might be a hard sell to those people, who think the stigma of owning a minivan is a lesser evil than the stigma of owning an SUV. Even if they just make one - a Lambda CUV with sliding rear doors would do the trick - it'd be better if they stayed in the segment

[Drew Dowdell]

I wouldn't do the Buick, just the Saturn and Chevy.

Saturn is moving upmarket and fast, it is easily going to take over Oldsmobile's space in a few years. Oldsmobile is more of a family/people's car than Buick is.

Chrysler, the biggest minivan seller gets by with just Dodge and Chrysler. There is no way that GM, one of the lowest minivan sellers needs more than that.

Chevy Biscayne = Dodge Caravan/Chrysler Voyager

Saturn Relay = Chrysler Town & country

[scharmer05]

The only problem with just putting sliding doors on one of the crossovers and calling it a minivan is that very few are going to pay $27000+ for a minivan. Minivans are priced right for new families and that is why many buy them.

[FAPTurbo]

I might catch hell for this, but I don't think GM should build minivans.

I do think they should build microvans like the Zafira, etc. and badge them as Saturn's.

Besides, the Lambda's are not SUV's. They are FWD crossovers. If GM markets them properly, families may actually be willing to get a Lambda instead of buying a "mommy-mobile"

[carman21]

The Lambda Crossovers are the replacement for all minivans. Expect Toyota & Honda to follow up by dropping or phasing out their Minivans in favor of Full-size Crossovers.

GM should build a midsize theta to compete with the Highlander & Pilot.

Crossovers should all be like this,

Compact CUVs with only an I-4

Midsize CUVs with either an I-4 or a V-6

Full-size CUVs with only a V-6

Well, Chevy def. needs a Lambda.

[Supremus]

I really, really hope that GM is simply calling this project by other name than "minivan", instead of abandoning it, because abandoning this segment would be quite stupid. There's the new DCX vans coming, the Ford Fairlane (with a Lincoln version, BTW), and surely Honda and Toyota will have new Siennas and Odysseys before 2010. That's too much market to ignore.

[Flybrian]

The simple fact is, some people are buying these CSVs we all make fun of and a lot more people would purchase GM vans if they were good. Abandoning this market completely just isn't smart.

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

The Lambda Crossovers are the replacement for all minivans. Expect Toyota & Honda to follow up by dropping or phasing out their Minivans in favor of Full-size Crossovers.

GM should build a midsize theta to compete with the Highlander & Pilot.

Crossovers should all be like this,

Compact CUVs with only an I-4

Midsize CUVs with either an I-4 or a V-6

Full-size CUVs with only a V-6

Well, Chevy def. needs a Lambda.

218730[/snapback]

I guess if you wanted an absolutely gutless Equinox 4-cylinder that might be a good idea-I know I don't.

[Drew Dowdell]

I guess if you wanted an absolutely gutless Equinox 4-cylinder that might be a good idea-I know I don't.

218757[/snapback]

I bet you would if it had an "H" on the grill </sarcasm>

[prototype66]

Exactly! Just build a lambda with sliding doors and unique sheetmetal, slap a bowtie on it, and at least you have a product for that segment!  To not have any minivan in the whole company just seems shortsighted.

218710[/snapback]

Agreed,without atleased 2 minis the whole segment would be missed.

atleased for the bowtie and the planet! BPG has too much overlap as it is.

I for 1 STILL get a minimum of 5 peeps a week looking for a mini. Maybe...just maybe if we design an ATTRACTIVE minivan with ALL of the options people ask for standard under $36k with the 5/100,000 pt warr and a 4/50k btb warr.............who knows. (abs w/tc and stabilitrac, airbags all around, fold in floor seats,dvd w/ phat noise, fwd w/ awd option, 6 speed trans with new hybrid stop and go power,3.9 v6 w/ afm and vvt, ...oh yah , and about a bajillion cup holders and a under floor storage. all of that in a great looking package! estimated mph of about 24 and 36 ay 240 hp. HOME RUN!jimo

Edited November 22, 2006 by prototype66

[prototype66]

I really, really hope that GM is simply calling this project by other name than "minivan", instead of abandoning it, because abandoning this segment would be quite stupid. .

218735[/snapback]

How about the new GM FLEXUV . The flexible use vehicle!

Edited November 22, 2006 by prototype66

[carstar]

Another reason to boo lutz.

[thegriffon]

I guess if you wanted an absolutely gutless Equinox 4-cylinder that might be a good idea-I know I don't.

218757[/snapback]

The Equinox is not really a compact, and neither is the Vue.

[CARBIZ]

There is too much gyrating going on at the top. First, they abandoned the car market altogether while focusing on trucks, then they realized the car market was crashing for them and they revamped their car lines while ignoring trucks again.

The Venture was a strong seller. It is a shame that GM never updated it with an all new vehicle a couple years ago. Instead, we got the Uplander. The Tracker was another vehicle that started off strong (although Chevrolet got screwed by not having a 6 cylinder available until the year they canned it!) but was allowed to rot.

Chevrolet needs a 5 cylinder CUV, a minivan, a mid-sized SUV and a decent cross-over. THAT is where the market is going. Somebody in Detroit is asleep at the switch again (or they just aren't telling us what is REALLY going on) if they think they can axe the Uplander and not replace it - especially with the Enclave, Acadia, etc. going to everybody else BUT Chevrolet!

I wouldn't say that a 24% drop in 5 years was a sinking ship! The entire truck market has dropped since Katrina. There are still over a million minivans being sold - they are everywhere up here!

CLEARLY, THERE JUST ISN'T ENOUGH MONEY TO GO AROUND. THERE ARE TOO MANY LEAKS IN THE DYKE, AND NOT LUTZ, NOT ANYBODY CAN KEEP UP WITH THE RAPIDLY CHANGING MARKET. SOME BRANDS WILL HAVE TO GO IF GM IS TO KEEP AHEAD OF THE MARKET.

We are having our lunch eaten by Mazda and others who are quickly filling niches as they see them.

HAS ANYONE SEEN THE MAZDA CX-7????? That is what we need.

I just hope all these rumours flying around are just designed to keep the media (and us) off the scent of what they are really up to.

[Hudson]

I wouldn't do the Buick, just the Saturn and Chevy.

And yet, the Buick will outlive the Saturn. Saturn Relay production ends in just about a month and a half.

[buyacargetacheck]

I traded my '97 Explorer in for a second-gen '99 Honda Odyssey when they first came out. The reason? We just had our second child and were tired of the little space between the headliner and the back seats once a baby seat or child seat was installed. You ran the risk of bumping the baby's head on the door opening and it was exhausting. The Odyssey's big sliders and lower ground clearance eliminated this nuisance. The Explorer's ride was also a little bumpy. Those were the two main reasons for switching. However, if these Lambdas were available back then I might have considered them. They probably won't have a true body-on-frame SUV's seat cushion to headliner space problem and lifting infants in will be a lot easier. Couple that with a quiet, comfortable ride and excellent space and you have a winner. GM doesn't need a minivan.

[regfootball]

GM should not give up the market, but build just one version, a Chevrolet. The current ones are just awful.

218708[/snapback]

yes. why give the whole market to dodge and the asians?

this tells me GM is losing their way.

[ehaase]

This tells me GM is being sensible and not wasting time and money on unprofitable segments.

[frogger]

The competition will be happy to take minivan buyers' money.

Anyone with 3 kids knows SUVs and CUVs just are not as practical.

[I hope GMRULES again]

This tells me GM is being sensible and not wasting time and money on unprofitable segments.

218860[/snapback]

Try telling Dodge, Honda and Toyota this is an unprofitable segment. The segment is still almost 1 million units and even if it dropped off to 800-900K a year GM should have 20% of that. GM has never had a competitive van since the original Caravan was released in 1984. Just design a competitive product and sell a Chevy version only. I know why your so pissed CARBIZ cause I know these vans do very well for GM in Canada because they sell on price, they probably don't make much money on them but they do bring in customers.They sell around 50k of these vans in Canada a year and GM Canada's total sales for a year are around 400k so these vans account for about 14% of their sales. If there is nothing to replace them 50K sales just went out the window because canadian buyers will definately not be buying crossovers that start at 33K, that's a long way from $19,995. DCX can schedule some overtime next year in Windsor. Edited November 23, 2006 by I hope GMRULES again

[DetroitNut90]

GM, I think this is an enormous mistake pulling out of this market. Minivans aren't the most attractive cars on the road, nor are they the most fun things to drive, but there's not much that can beat their flexibility or versatility. There is a reason (actually, there are a few) why we bought our Venture over a Trailblazer or Tahoe/Suburban.

[97regalGS]

GM will stop making minivans just like they are closing the Oshawa plant.

i'd look for a minivan-esque vehicle that carries some sort of 'crossover-type' moniker.

it's not a minivan, it's a family oriented crossover utility vehicle with rear sliding doors.

[regfootball]

minivans provide brand entry for many buyers.....i.e. new moms buying a toyota or kia for the first time and then later stepping into other products.

GM is so fcked sometimes. it really makes you think they are just a bunch of good ole boy dumbasses that never set foot outside the great lakes area.

[GMman]

I would hate to see GM pull out of the market all together, but building the mini-vans they're building right now, they may as well pull out. I don't know how profitable that market is, but it appears to be, with honda and Chrysler putting so much effort into it....they sell a bunch of those things. I see them everywhere.

Honda has taken the top spot away from Chrysler, which is a real shame. I have some friends with an Odyssey and while it is pretty functional, with some effort GM could top it!

[pow]

minivans provide brand entry for many buyers.....i.e. new moms buying a toyota or kia for the first time and then later stepping into other products.

GM is so fcked sometimes.  it really makes you think they are just a bunch of good ole boy dumbasses that never set foot outside the great lakes area.

218956[/snapback]

True... the cheapest Outlook is a good $4K more than the cheapest Sienna.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

That's it GM....

Give up..... Give in.... That's what they want you to do.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

The Lambda Crossovers are the replacement for all minivans. Expect Toyota & Honda to follow up by dropping or phasing out their Minivans in favor of Full-size Crossovers.

GM should build a midsize theta to compete with the Highlander & Pilot.

Crossovers should all be like this,

Compact CUVs with only an I-4

Midsize CUVs with either an I-4 or a V-6

Full-size CUVs with only a V-6

Well, Chevy def. needs a Lambda.

218730[/snapback]

Why would they do that?!?!?!

Last I heard they were making a MINT on the market.... Especially since they were the media deemed "BEST" in the segment DESPITE DCX domination OF the segment.

And if Minivans are so out of style, why did Kia just launch a new one heavily and why is VW thinking about it?!?!?!

GM would be very stupid not to produce a minivan of some sort, or a replacment. To not target establishing families is suicide. Not to count these are the people GM needs to be converting.

Now, if GM were to offer a competitive replacement for them, like Ford is doing for it's minivans (The Fairlane) then I wouldn't be whining so much.

And BTW, am I the only one who thinks the Lambdas are TOO BIG to be minivan replacements?

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

minivans provide brand entry for many buyers.....i.e. new moms buying a toyota or kia for the first time and then later stepping into other products.

GM is so fcked sometimes.  it really makes you think they are just a bunch of good ole boy dumbasses that never set foot outside the great lakes area.

218956[/snapback]

True that.... On both accounts, but especially the first one.

It's almost as if GM is dancing around the point...

The first line of the article states that they will focus on crossovers....

WHY?!?!?!?!

By focusing on crossovers, they're going to have to engineer and build a new crossover off of a smaller platform (I still maintain that Lambda in it's current form is too big) then they're going to have to ESTABLISH a new name in the market, then they're going to have to find some way to MARKET an SUV to a crowd that 1) Does not hold GM in high regard 2) Increasingly doesn't hold SUVs in high regard (I know it's not a true SUV---But these people won't) and 3) People who are already looking at excellent Toyotas and Hondas that appeal to them and serve their needs in a completely different class.

So; WHY NOT JUST SAVE THE TIME AND BUILD A FRIGGIN' COMPETITIVE MINIVAN?!?!?!?!?! Why complicate things further?!?!?! This seems to be the same logic GM uses a lot.... For example, the CTS. WHY not build the CTS as an exportable direct competitor to the 3 series instead of giving it the awkward designation of 5 series size, as well as STS sized and cheaper price..... GM, please, just FOCUS and COMPETE!

[PurdueGuy]

And BTW, am I the only one who thinks the Lambdas are TOO BIG to be minivan replacements?

219010[/snapback]

Passenger space is on-par with minivans, though the cargo area might be a bit big when compared to the average minivan.

[ocnblu]

I was about to come in here and say I think the Lambdas will make people forget about minivans and Chevrolet needs a version with sliding doors. But you guys make some valid points.

Still, a substantially reskinned Chevrolet Lambda with sliding doors sounds good to me though. It would compete successfully with the Fairlane and it would certainly be free of the minivan stigma while offering the ease of sliding doors and a power liftgate. It would appeal to moms who want to be seen as active and to dads in general. The minivan defines the driver in a sort of negative way... couch potato. The crossover sends a much more active message to its driver (reinforcing self esteem) and projects confidence to onlookers.

This is an opportunity for GM to blur a segment and create a new niche that could move us from Chrysler's model, started in 1984, that everyone has copied since then.

[Dsuupr]

GM tried to blur the segment with the Uplander/Terraza stuff. I'm not so sure if blurring it such a smart idea. The Lambda platform sounds like a great platform for a minivan.

What about the spy photo that was just published? Are we 100% sure this isn't just speculation, or GM trying to throw off the media?

[CARBIZ]

Who decides that if you drive one type of car, you exude confidence, but if you drive another, you are fat and lazy?

I am not arguing with you Ocn, I do agree that this is what has been happening.

So, if you drive an SUV, you are raping the planet. If you drive a minivan, you are fat, lazy and stupid. That must mean that if you spend $60k on a 400 hp "sport sedan" you are an over-acheiving, self-centered jerk who cuts people off, doesn't signal and yakks on the cell while hogging the left lane, all in an attempt to prove that you are "somebody?"

Have the marketing mavens suddenly decided that the "cross-over" is the Next Big Thing. I guess GM and Ford figure if they starve the minivan segment it will die on its own - proof that they were correct in ignoring the 1.1 million customers in the first place?

This is all just smoke and mirrors. For the 80% of the people who don't need to go sideways on the Bonneville Salt Flats, the minivan has been a very efficient people mover for nearly 25 years. Just because some snobs have decided you are fat and lazy if you drive one, doesn't mean the segment isn't credible. The DCX minivan of 20 years ago was affordable, easy to park, great on gas (relatively speaking) and easy to maintain. None of that can be said of the current crop of minivans.

Somebody in Detroit has got to realize that not everyone wants 300 hp, not everyone cares about skidpads and that there is a strong market for a well built, well designed, AFFORDABLE minivan.

[HarleyEarl]

I'm so happy. Finally this blight upon the automotive landscape is on it's deathbed. It took a long time, but finally it's starting to wind down.

First Ford and now GM. I'm filled with automotive joy.

[prototype66]

GM, I think this is an enormous mistake pulling out of this market. Minivans aren't the most attractive cars on the road, nor are they the most fun things to drive, but there's not much that can beat their flexibility or versatility. There is a reason (actually, there are a few) why we bought our Venture over a Trailblazer or Tahoe/Suburban.

218949[/snapback]

DITTO! not to mention fuel savings and ease of manuverability.

Granted the Upblander is a huge turd our Venture is great !

[prototype66]

I'm so happy.  Finally this blight upon the automotive landscape is on it's deathbed.  It took a long time, but finally it's starting to wind down.

First Ford and now GM.  I'm filled with automotive joy.

219096[/snapback]

With all due respect Mr. Earl, It would be foolish to pass up an oppotunity to gain back the respect of the American minivan family with a easily obtainer modification of a lambda! Easy fix!!!! Edited November 23, 2006 by prototype66

[4gm]

Note to GM: if you build a bottum run product, no one will buy it.

This reminds me a discussion a while ago here on C&G. There was some data showing how much the market for 2-door cars had shrunk and, for that reason, it would be a good idea not to put resources into developing a car for that segment. And I was like, hold on minute, maybe the market for that segement has shruck because most of the 2-doors that are available are ugly. I pointed out that the BMW 3-series was attractive AND selling well. I don't remember anyone responding to my post.

[Flybrian]

Here's an interesting take on the Lambda decision...

What Do Moms Want? GM's Minivan Issue

GM joins Ford in jettisoning the minivan market but is it a smart business move or an admission of defeat?

by David Kiley

LaNeve says GM is still dithering over whether Chevy, for example, should have a sliding-door SUV as an option. Normally, offering both a hinged door and a sliding door would be an expensive proposition. But GM already had a design for a Lambda minivan with sliding doors that some reporters have seen. It's possible that GM could make a sound business case to ensure there's enough flexibility in its factory to produce both.

Industry consultant Jim Hall of AutoPacific says "the Lambda vehicle architecture lends itself to a lot of variants, and the fact that they already engineered it for a sliding door means they could do it affordably if they think enough customers want it." He says that after the Saturn, GMC, and Buick SUVs are in the market, GM will know from consumer feedback if the lack of a sliding door is big minus in the showroom.

Link to Full Article @ Business Week - a good read

With the timeline we're quasi familiar with stating a Chevy Lambda is coming, but not until 2009/10, could it be possible that Chevrolet will get an exclusively-tailored CUV with sliding doors? This would be a good solution, I think. Limit the exposure to loss by making one world-class minivan for the large volume division.

[I hope GMRULES again]

That was a good read. Maybe they have decided that a van based on the Lambda platform is still possible but it will not warrant its own assembly plant (Spring hill).

[prototype66]

That was a good read. Maybe they have decided that a van based on the Lambda platform is still possible but it will not warrant its own assembly plant (Spring hill).

219132[/snapback]

Lansing /Delta is capable of multiple vehicles at one time. I've spoke to several people in the plant that say up to 12 or more models with the modular assembly enabling different suspentions and drivetrains.