Pontiac Lives!

[Chazman]

Figured I'd post this over here...

http://64.65.63.61/forums/showthread.php?t=483638

[Cory Wolfe]

That... doesnt reveal much...

[Chazman]

That... doesnt reveal much...

214263[/snapback]

On the contrary, it reveals a whole bunch.

[Robert Hall]

Just lots of idle speculation, sounds like..

[turbo200]

it reveals Pontiac will get a small line of RWD cars, finally. It reveals Pontiac has great product coming, because Chazman has faith in it, and he has pretty high standards. It reveals roughly the pricing of the cars.....reference the line about Scion owners graduating to Pontiac, to me that means the 22k-25k base price market is about where our small RWD Torana-like car will be, and a fierce competitor to the 3-series.

[turbo200]

Just lots of idle speculation, sounds like..

214330[/snapback]

no, definitely not. these are insiders who have a source of information. what we used to have at this site. they would not talk about this kind of thing, unless there was development going on. also, a lot of statements in the recent past have pointed in this direction.

it's information on the future of Pontiac.

[Flybrian]

One cannot simply expect things to be laid out exactly as it stands in plain English. Read between the lines, add your own common sense, and enjoy.

[turbo200]

it sounds like Pontiac will essentially become a one line brand. they will offer a variety of bodystyles based on one car basically. 3-series offers wagon, sedan, coupe, vert........Pontiac will offer at least this, probably a hatch too, and obviously the successor to Solstice. According to Chaz, aside from a possible Commodore/G8 in limited supply, Pontiac is still not in on Zeta.

[Flybrian]

If that's the case, sounds like what has been tossed around for the past while, that Pontiac would cover the low-end entry-level in price and size while Buick takes midsize and above within the B-P-GMC setup.

I, for one, would still love to see a sophisticated performance coupe and sedan, a replacement for the Grand Prix sedan and the GTO, I guess think 5er.

[Cory Wolfe]

Just lots of idle speculation, sounds like..

214330[/snapback]

Yeah... I've read through this for the third time, even putting specific attention on posts made by Z284ever, and that's all I get out of this. His original statement "Forget all the rumors you've been hearing for the past year or two - this will be a NEW Pontiac." says the most, but it's pretty indirect and does not lean towards something like an all RWD lineup... As that's been rumored. So...

[turbo200]

the question is what platform will this be on. ifremember ah-ha made a post here about a month ago

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

This is a quote from God, in the Bible, he was there in the first and is there in the end as well.

There has recently been a lot of talk about Zeta being very flexible, inclusively the question was asked if Zeta shortened could be the foundation for a small RWD platform, and Lutz said it was possible but not likely.

I think Zeta could have something to do with this new small platform.

[turbo200]

Yeah... I've read through this for the third time, even putting specific attention on posts made by Z284ever, and that's all I get out of this. His original statement "Forget all the rumors you've been hearing for the past year or two - this will be a NEW Pontiac." says the most, but it's pretty indirect and does not lean towards something like an all RWD lineup... As that's been rumored. So...

214338[/snapback]

hmm....did you really read all his posts? There's a lot more there than you are saying.

There is one post on page three. Towards the bottom, just before mine, in response to someone saying they are a young college student, and small affordable RWD would make a lot of sense, his response is "Pick your body style..."

Also, he quoted Jack Keebler when Keebler said he was intent on creating a line of small agile and affordable RWD cars. It really can't get much clearer than that...

[Chazman]

the question is what platform will this be on. ifremember ah-ha made a post here about a month ago

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 

This is a quote from God, in the Bible, he was there in the first and is there in the end as well.

There has recently been a lot of talk about Zeta being very flexible, inclusively the question was asked if Zeta shortened could be the foundation for a small RWD platform, and Lutz said it was possible but not likely.

I think Zeta could have something to do with this new small platform.

214341[/snapback]

If you're thinking Zeta or even Kappa for that matter, you're barking up the wrong tree. All new.

[Cory Wolfe]

hmm....did you really read all his posts? There's a lot more there than you are saying.

There is one post on page three. Towards the bottom, just before mine, in response to someone saying they are a young college student, and small affordable RWD would make a lot of sense, his response is "Pick your body style..."

Also, he quoted Jack Keebler when Keebler said he was intent on creating a line of small agile and affordable RWD cars. It really can't get much clearer than that...

214343[/snapback]

Yes, I have.

I'm probably reading too much into this, but why would he make that first statement I picked out if this were all the case, as this has all been speculated about and it has been since that comment was made by Jack Keebler.

I mean, I'd hope this was the direction, but his comments don't line up.

Edited November 10, 2006 by blackviper8891

[Robert Hall]

no, definitely not. these are insiders who have a source of information. what we used to have at this site. they would not talk about this kind of thing, unless there was development going on. also, a lot of statements in the recent past have pointed in this direction.

it's information on the future of Pontiac.

214333[/snapback]

We'll see...when I actually see something in GM press releases, I'll believe it..postings by anonymous people on a web forum don't mean a lot...

[Croc]

Torana platform.

[turbo200]

If that's the case, sounds like what has been tossed around for the past while, that Pontiac would cover the low-end entry-level in price and size while Buick takes midsize and above within the B-P-GMC setup.

I, for one, would still love to see a sophisticated performance coupe and sedan, a replacement for the Grand Prix sedan and the GTO, I guess think 5er.

214337[/snapback]

ya, I would love that, but thinking price range for this type of car.....basically a 5-series type car for around 30-35k base, we're basically talking about the Cadillac CTS.

[turbo200]

Torana platform.

214350[/snapback]

was that even a working concept? It was a concept that Holden did without permission, I guess, if that was true..... I thought it did have a real functioning platform.

[turbo200]

We'll see...when I actually see something in GM press releases, I'll believe it..postings by anonymous people on a web forum don't mean a lot...

214349[/snapback]

you have.....a lot of talk recently about this kind of car. this isn't someone anonymously posting, this person has information most of us don't have. kind of how we have known about so much product in the pipeline before the mags or the general public.

[turbo200]

Yes, I have.

I'm probably reading too much into this, but why would he make that first statement I picked out if this were all the case, as this has all been speculated about and it has been since that comment was made by Jack Keebler.

I mean, I'd hope this was the direction, but his comments don't line up.

214348[/snapback]

because it's actually going to happen now, maybe it has a program code, exterior design is the clay stage, etc....

bottom line is it's something that is certain now, if he is posting with such certainty. he's not unreliable or trigger-happy when it comes to inside info.

[04monteintimidator]

it sounds like Pontiac will essentially become a one line brand. they will offer a variety of bodystyles based on one car basically. 3-series offers wagon, sedan, coupe, vert........Pontiac will offer at least this, probably a hatch too, and obviously the successor to Solstice. According to Chaz, aside from a possible Commodore/G8 in limited supply, Pontiac is still not in on Zeta.

214336[/snapback]

thats pretty exciting... but i have some problems with it

one is on personal prefference... i dont want to see a pontiac hatchback...ever... end it with the vibe's last year and leave it be... i cant stand so called "hot hatches" if you want a fast car... you buy a coupe... if you want alot of cargo space, you buy an SUV or a more eco-friendly crossover... you shouldnt be able to get both

the other... i think i speak for more than myself here when i say i would not want just one line of cars with different bodystyles... of course that is heavily influenced by my desire to see a Pontiac zeta named GTO or Firebird...but im sure lots of other people have the same feelings... have at least two lines of cars...and if not zeta then something of similar size and performance... and give us the SD455 of the new millenium under the hood

[ocnblu]

I've been an advocate of more bodystyles off a single platform, rather than multiple platforms for a good while now. Pontiac needs Kappa, of course, in roadster and fastback hatch coupe. Then they could build a sedan, coupe, convertible and sportwagon off their larger platform. All RWD, of course, with optional AWD for the clueless. Ecotec and 3.6L V6, up to forced induction variants for the highest performance models. If they have to shrink Pontiac, this strategy could prove popular. I just want them to have names.

[Chazman]

I just want them to have names.

214742[/snapback]

Names would be good. The question I guess, is do you get new ones or recycle some old ones?

[Camino LS6]

Names would be good. The question I guess, is do you get new ones or recycle some old ones?

215262[/snapback]

Both.

Depends completely on the product. When using an old name, it had better be worthy of it - that is my only caution.

[Northstar]

Unless the EPII G6 has been canceled (and as recently as about a week ago I know it hadn't been) then Pontiac will certainly be more than a one-line brand. They'll have the G8, G6, and NG Solstice. The NG Solstice will certainly have some other body styles. For instance, one of them just may be a five-letter word that starts with a T and ends with an A. Can anyone guess what it is? :AH-HA_wink:

[Chazman]

Unless the EPII G6 has been canceled (and as recently as about a week ago I know it hadn't been) then Pontiac will certainly be more than a one-line brand. They'll have the G8, G6, and NG Solstice. The NG Solstice will certainly have some other body styles. For instance, one of them just may be a five-letter word that starts with a T and ends with an A. Can anyone guess what it is?  :AH-HA_wink:

215286[/snapback]

Who's to say that the next gen Solstice won't end up riding on this new platform?

[Mr.Krinkle]

Names would be good. The question I guess, is do you get new ones or recycle some old ones?

215262[/snapback]

in the same way no one wants to see another pinto or chevette.

i get the whole pbg merger and more specific vehicle lines, this has been hinted at for long long time may 2005

if we're talking 3 or 4 models then fine, thats wonderful. they just need to be specialized. the names should fall into place after that. it would be great to see bonneville back but im gathering we wont be seeing a buick sized pontiac.

grand prix could probably fit the bill. after that though they better match up if

youre going to give it a name like the tempest. or even lemans names.

although i could see those fitting in somehow. even the next g8 lemans wouldnt be too terrible to deal with, in my opinion

[ehaase]

Who's to say that the next gen Solstice won't end up riding on this new platform?

215293[/snapback]

Based upon your excellent posts on the Camaro board, the Zeta G8 that people keep bringing up is not definite.

[hyperv6]

Both.

Depends completely on the product. When using an old name, it had better be worthy of it - that is my only caution.

215272[/snapback]

The problem with using the old names is a very tough thing.

I can hear it now, "It dose not look like a GTO or Bonnieville"!!!

Which bring to point what does a GTO or Bonneville or Ventura look like? It means so many things to so many people it would be hard to satisfy they majority.

I have been a Pontiac fan for years and owned or driven almost every kind of Pontiac. I also have been involved with many different Pontiac clubs and groups and can tell you there are many today that still feel Pontiac has not made a car since the last 400 rolled out in 1979.

I guess my point is to give a new car a old name give it too much preconcieved idea's or hopes. A new Pontiac today will have little of what many want to see as it will not have a Pontiac Motor, It will not have a lot of ribbed cladding, it will most likley set a new direction for Pontiac just as the 1959 did with the wide track. A fresh start requires a fresh name.

Keep in mind Bonneville to some means a sleek 1965 coke bottle bodied car but to others a cheesey 1984 Lemans rebadge. There is just too much baggage to lay on a new car here and Pontiac can't afford any mistakes to survive.

I agree that Pontiac's new cars need to make a statment but it needs to make a new statment.

I would love to see some of the names of the old show cars that never made production be used. This would bring a fresh name to the market but keep a little heritage in it.

Keep in mind not everyone loves or has loved Pontiac. If they did we would not see so few cars being sold.

Edited November 13, 2006 by hyperv6

[4gm]

What I got from the parts of the thread that I read is that Pontiac will be getting a line of small rwd cars. As long as Pontiac makes all the cars look great with some in your face styling and the powertrains to match and keeps them affordable I think it's a great idea.

GM has too many divisions in the upper segements of the market. The affordable, sporty, stylish segment is just waiting to happen and explode and it's something that's perfect for Pontiac. I've said this before but people on a budget want something that looks good and is fun to drive too. Why should that be relegated to the upper segments of the market? And there's no comany, that I can think of at the moment, that caters to that. It would be a good direction for Pontiac. Nobody wants to buy 40K Pontiac anyway.

[Chazman]

I also have been involved with many different Pontiac clubs and groups and can tell you there are many today that still feel Pontiac has not made a car since the last 400 rolled out in 1979. 

I kinda fall into that group. Actually, I'll accept up to 1981 and the 301.

[hyperv6]

I kinda fall into that group. Actually, I'll accept up to 1981 and the 301.

215524[/snapback]

The true last real Pontiac Pontiac that eats away at the GTO crowd, is if you point it out that the 1984-88 Fiero 4 cylinder was the last Pontiac powered Pontiac ever built.

It was built in Pontiac MI, only sold by Pontiac and even had a Pontiac 4 cylinder 2.5 in it. It was a true 100% Pontiac something even some older Pontiac's can't claim.

Even the GTO had a little Chevelle under the body shell if one was to get technical.

But that is all history and just part of the baggage of using an old name since so many have different ideas what a Pontiac really is and makes it difficult to please all on what their personal definition is.

I like them all but too many just want to like a specific style, type or year so how do you address that in a new car.

The bottom line is after cars like the Korean Lemans, the 1974 GTO, 1984 Bonneville and to some the 2004 GTO do you make anyone happy by using an old name. I looks like Pontiac might make 50% of the old timers happy at best.

Edited November 14, 2006 by hyperv6

[red]

Promising statement. Alludes to a plan that is "all-new."

I'm for any plan that stays true to Pontiac's image: youthful, daring, performance specialists.

Whether that equates to a lineup of turbocharged pocket rockets or an all-RWD performance line - well, that's not the most important thing. What's important is that GM develop Pontiacs that are solid, differentiated, distinctive, class-leading/inventing with flawless execution. And then, stay true to that plan.

Until then, I'm anxiously awaiting a full announcement.

[Northstar]

Who's to say that the next gen Solstice won't end up riding on this new platform?

215293[/snapback]

That's what I meant by NG Solstice having multiple body styles. Whether they are all designed similarly and/or have the name Solstice could be a different story.

Still no one has figured out what five-letter word starts with T and ends with A?

[Robert Hall]

Still no one has figured out what five-letter word starts with T and ends with A?

215581[/snapback]

Torana?

[Northstar]

Torana?

215584[/snapback]

That's 6 letters. The R is in the correct place, if that helps.

[Robert Hall]

Ahh...body style, not model name...Targa!

[Northstar]

Ahh...body style, not model name...Targa!

215608[/snapback]

Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

[Cory Wolfe]

As if that wasn't easy to figure out...

But my question is... Targa as in Corvette or Targa as in 911.

[Northstar]

Seeing as how it's GM, I would guess Targa like the Vette, but Targa like a 911 would be awesome. I don't know to be honest, other than that there is one in the books.

[Guest YellowJacket894]

Solstice Targa Coupe?

Neat.

[ocnblu]

That Solstice sounds great.

It'd be a cool idea for a sketch competition... design Pontiac's 2012 lineup based on the 2 platform premise... Kappa and "small RWD".

[carstar]

No info or photos? what the point of this topic?

[Northstar]

No info or photos? what the point of this topic?

216752[/snapback]

How many people have photos of cars debuting 3-4 years from now? And of those people, how many could post them without losing their job?

[hyperv6]

How many people have photos of cars debuting 3-4 years from now? And of those people, how many could post them without losing their job?

216753[/snapback]

Best to watch in the dealer books for a G6 as GM seems to like to sneek some odd studio peeks into them lately. Remeber we saw the Sky 2 years ahead in the studio.

[C.H.U.D.]

Remember when Bob said "All will be revealed"?

:AH-HA_wink:

[carstar]

How many people have photos of cars debuting 3-4 years from now? And of those people, how many could post them without losing their job?

216753[/snapback]

Very good point.

But we have to wait 3 to 4 years. Hate to say, but it's like the same bs gm executives are usually saying, but longer than the usual "wait till next year..." crap

[ehaase]

But we have to wait 3 to 4 years.

217082[/snapback]

That's the way it's always been. I remember reading rumors of the Ford Taurus back in 1981, more than four years before it debuted. The automakers just can't whip up a new platform and get the car in production as quickly as we enthusiasts would like.

[network engineer]

The thread seems to indicate we'll see the G6 replaced with an epsilon II car and after it has been out a bit we will see a line of rear wheel drive cars similar to the BMW 3 series on a platform called Alpha. What one could gather from the thread is that it will have multiple body styles, of course including a couple, convertable, 4 door sedan, wagon and probably crossover. 4 vehicles that all have great RWD performance, sounds great to me. If you don't know how to drive in the snow in a RWD (Go back to Drivers ED!) then chevy will have a very nice Malibu to offer you!

[ZL-1]

it sounds like Pontiac will essentially become a one line brand. they will offer a variety of bodystyles based on one car basically. 3-series offers wagon, sedan, coupe, vert........Pontiac will offer at least this, probably a hatch too, and obviously the successor to Solstice. According to Chaz, aside from a possible Commodore/G8 in limited supply, Pontiac is still not in on Zeta.

214336[/snapback]

The Commodore isn't much different from a a G6 size-wise, is it? Maybe a US built Zeta can fill both G6/G8 shoes (think V6 and V8 versions) after the NG G6...

About offering the 3-series sized car, I say go for it! I know some people (inlcuding myself) that would love to see a RWD Cadillac BLS sharing an architecture with such a car.

And a RWD MINI competitor would be nice too

EDIT: I meant a NA built Zeta, not US

Edited November 24, 2006 by ZL-1