Car And Driver

[regfootball]

6. Sentra (new one)

5. Corolla

4. Elantra

3. Civic

2. Mazda3

1. VW Rabbit

They seemed to have issues with the new Sentra. Of course they didn't like the Corolla because its spongy. They praised the Elantra as being spacious and a good commuter but its a flopper. The Civic is an acquired taste. the Mazda is a good car but it didn't win because of red dash lights. The Rabbit is the best overall. All models tested had sticks. They claimed that no Focus or Cobalt with stick was available to test.

Edited November 1, 2006 by regfootball

[Northstar]

Why didn't they test the Cobalt?

[regfootball]

Why didn't they test the Cobalt?

211086[/snapback]

my last sentence says no cobalt with stick was available to test.

[Intrepidation]

The 3 didn't win because of the red lights? That's retarded! Morons!

[regfootball]

The 3 didn't win because of the red lights? That's retarded! Morons!

211109[/snapback]

well, not just that. but the fact they mentioned it so much was annoying. the rabbit was quieter and more refined.

the rabbit weighed like 5-600 pounds more than the corolla.

[Flybrian]

Why is the Corolla anything but sixth?

[I hope GMRULES again]

my last sentence says no cobalt with stick was available to test.

211088[/snapback]

I wish car mags would stop using that line, it really is ridiculous.

[the_yellow_dart]

Yep. I agree. Three simple words:

We F****d Up.

[aaaantoine]

It's not fair to the manufacturers to exclude cars from a comparison. Granted the Cobalt probably would have gotten in right between the Corolla and Elantra, knowing car mags...

Then again, why do I give them that much credit?

[regfootball]

they would have had to have had a base 2.4 Cobalt SS or a base Cobalt. the SS with stick in sedan is a tough one to find. but it is lame for the mags to use that as an excuse.

the focus ST would have been the one to test but can get close to 20k which may have excluded it. the more plebian Foci should have been a dime a dozen to find.

A glaring omission to me was the Subaru Imprieza 2.5, it would have been mid pack i think.

Its a disturbing trend the buff books have, they don't even review or test or compare the less chosen brands anymore.

Edited November 1, 2006 by regfootball

[Flybrian]

I know, Reg. As said, why is the Corolla even here? Even realizes it exists, no one buys it for a fun car, so why?

[Drew Dowdell]

Here is my issue.

Why doesn't GM study for the test. They know what the car magazines are usually looking for. Why not have a fleet of Cobalt SS sedans in both manual and automatic form available for testing? In the test fleet GM should include it's best* examples.

*best according to the people at the car rags

[regfootball]

I know, Reg. As said, why is the Corolla even here? Even realizes it exists, no one buys it for a fun car, so why?

211215[/snapback]

i totally agree, why is the elentra in it either?

[CARBIZ]

Leave it to these rags to test vehicles the way nobody buys them, and then omit one of biggest sellers in this class. Collectively, the Cobalt/G5 (or whatever the hell it is being called now) is one of the better sellers in this bunch.

Is this incompetence, stupidity or a deliberate slam at American cars?

[sciguy_0504]

I know, Reg. As said, why is the Corolla even here?

211215[/snapback]

I think the basic premise of the article answers your question. A Cobalt and Focus, manual or not, should have been included.

[The O.C.]

I think the basic premise of the article answers your question.  A Cobalt and Focus, manual or not, should have been included.

211230[/snapback]

.....then you guys would have bitched when the Cobalt and Focus with automatics didn't win because they lagged behind in acceleration and fuel economy compared to the other cars with their sticks....

etc, etc., etc

I think mags SHOULD compare similarly-equipped cars. It's a bit more "apples to apples."

[the_yellow_dart]

.....then you guys would have bitched when the Cobalt and Focus with automatics didn't win because they lagged behind in acceleration and fuel economy compared to the other cars with their sticks....

etc, etc., etc

I think mags SHOULD compare similarly-equipped cars.  It's a bit more "apples to apples."

211269[/snapback]

I agree. How hard is it to find a manual Cobalt???

[pow]

The Rabbit is a fabulous car and a fabulous deal. I agree with the results... the only questionable ranking is the Sentra.

[regfootball]

my guess is nissan flubbed the base sentra for the corolla crowd but the sport SE-R Altima will be whack. i.e. much improved for enthusiasts.

you get the feeling GM and Ford maybe aren't even bothering trying to appease the 'enthusiast' mags anymore, because they get beat up so much?

Edited November 1, 2006 by regfootball

[79VetteZ06]

I agree. How hard is it to find a manual Cobalt???

211270[/snapback]

Not very hard considering Car and Driver can get a used Porsche Boxter to compare it with Solstice GXP.

May be they were saving GM and Ford from from blushes of the last place results. Or they did not want the American cars to win, j/k.

Edited November 1, 2006 by 79VetteZ06

[pow]

CAR AND DDRiVER IS BIAS!

(... even though the Focus was one of their 10Best five years in a row...)

[regfootball]

Not very hard considering Car and Driver can get a used Porsche Boxter to compare it with Solstice GXP.

May be they were saving GM and Ford from from blushes of the last place results. Or they did not want the American cars to win, j/k.

211322[/snapback]

well, Mazda is FORD so in some repsects Ford does benefit already

[MyerShift]

I do question the positioning of the new Sentra as well.

I'm surprised that it didn't outrank the new Elantra in some way, shape, or form.

And C&D called the Sentra's styling as tortured. I personally like it much better than the Corolla or new Elantra. But then, the Sentra is basically an ION in appearance with different details. I mean, check out that silhouette!

[ocnblu]

SCOOORRE VOLKSWAGEN! Yes people, the VW Rabbit is a wonderful little car. I was drooling over a new Black Magic GTI yesterday... no Rabbits on the lot, they're sold when they hit the ground.

For Car&Driver to exclude Cobalt and Focus is ridiculous.

[MyerShift]

True that!

And what's with the 4-door GTI? I thought VW wasn't going to bring it here. Must have had a change of heart.

I personally want a Tornado Red GTI with the optional 18" aluminum wheels.

[Chicagoland]

Rabbit gets mid size gas mileage and MSRP for a compact size.

They picked a plain jane Sentra, just to get a 6 speed manual. Not fair t put it against 'touring package' Mazda 3 and a more loaded Hyundai. Also, Nissan is promoting CVT's now, so unfair on that aspect also.

C/D is still caters to the 'I will drive a manual tranny only' folk, which are about 1-3% of the populaton. Reality is some want manuals for a 'toy' or 'weekend' car, but for commuting in the real world, they get an auto.

I'd like to see the CVT Sentra up against the slush box versions of all those cars. Isn't the Corolla still a 4 speed?

[ocnblu]

A manual is the only way to have fun in most cars. Small cars like this thrive on manual transmissions. I mean, I wouldn't want a 6 speed manual in a Grand Marquis, but ya know?

3 door Rabbit starts at $14,990, and a GTI with no options compares favorably to a Cobalt SS/SC for features... stability control, xenon headlights, and limited slip diff are standard with the GTI.

Edited November 7, 2006 by ocnblu

[pow]

Surprisingly, the GTI gets better mileage than the Rabbit.

25/32 v. 22/30

Maybe direct injection and less displacement has something to do with it.

[bowtie_dude]

I agree. How hard is it to find a manual Cobalt???

211270[/snapback]

Pretty f@#king hard in the Kentucky Bluegrass area. 7 Chevrolet dealers within 25 miles, and, aside from SS Supercharged, about 3 manuals (and they're base level models) among them.

[bowtie_dude]

I just can't believe that red dash lights was a mark against the Mazda 3. Its an aesthetic preference you douchebag, pretentious A-holes. Why is blue so much better? GOD, that kind of crap is why I hate C&D. BMWs have red dash lighting, yet they LOVE their 3-series. Ugh!!!

[pow]

I just can't believe that red dash lights was a mark against the Mazda 3.  Its an aesthetic preference you douchebag, pretentious A-holes.  Why is blue so much better?  GOD, that kind of crap is why I hate C&D.  BMWs have red dash lighting, yet they LOVE their 3-series.  Ugh!!!

212884[/snapback]

They're cool like that. The last family sedan review, they went on about speedometer needles and hash marks.

[Flybrian]

I just can't believe that red dash lights was a mark against the Mazda 3.  Its an aesthetic preference you douchebag, pretentious A-holes.  Why is blue so much better?  GOD, that kind of crap is why I hate C&D.  BMWs have red dash lighting, yet they LOVE their 3-series.  Ugh!!!

212884[/snapback]

See Edmunds re: Pontiac for yet another example of this mysterious turncoatedness.

[Z-06]

well, Mazda is FORD so in some repsects Ford does benefit already

211475[/snapback]

Yeah ask my sister in law, she still thinks, Mazda is Japanese. I am pretty sure she is not the only one.

[Z-06]

See Edmunds re: Pontiac for yet another example of this mysterious turncoatedness.

212890[/snapback]

Let us not go to Edmunds.

It is the most hypocritical garbage of journalism existing in the auto industry. It is a shame to the industry.

[siegen]

I just read the comparo. Pretty lame. Despite the supposed $18,000 cap, they overbought the VW, Mazda, and Nissan. Now that's fair.

A Mazda 3 is available for less than our $18,000 target, but it would be a less zingy car without the 156-hp, 2.3-liter engine (a 2.0 is standard with 148 horsepower) and without the 17-inch wheels wearing 205/50 Goodyear Eagle RS-A tires (15s are standard, 16s could duck under the price limit).

So in an economy car test, they decided to break the price limit just to get the bigger engine and bigger wheels/tires? They didn't say exactly how much they spent, but the Mazda3 S Touring MSRP's (including destination) at $18,920, so that's at least a $1,000 over the limit. Yet they chose to compare it to a Civic LX which MSRP's (including destination) at $17,555. For the extra money, they could have picked up a Civic EX which adds better wheels/tires, better brakes, better sound system, moonroof, mp3, and a few other goodies.

Yet despite the bigger engine, the Mazda3 only out-accelerated the 2nd place (performance-wise) Civic by 0.4s 0-60 and 0.3s 1/4. I wonder how well the Mazda would have done in non-S trim?

Edited November 8, 2006 by siegen

[Drew Dowdell]

I wouldn't want a 6 speed manual in a Grand Marquis, but ya know?

212789[/snapback]

Could be fun with the right engine/suspension setup....

[ocnblu]

GT500 engine?

[Flybrian]

Speaking of the Grand Marquis, go sit in a recent one. Puke. I love the vinyl screened GRAND MARQUIS block lettering on the faux wood. Ugh.

[ocnblu]

That's actually a 24 carat gold inlay in genuine Mohican finegrained Zebra wood. :AH-HA_wink:

[ImpalaPete]

Of course they didn't like the Corolla because its spongy.

Tokico and Hellwig cure that problem rather easily.

They praised the Elantra as being spacious and a good commuter but its a flopper.

No surprise. It does not pretend to be sporty.

The Civic is an acquired taste.

Has been since its inception.

the Mazda is a good car but it didn't win because of red dash lights.

Always good to hear that C&D is using such unquestionable criterion to choose the best small car. C&D must be chummy with the folks at CR.

The Rabbit is the best overall.

For sportiness, probably so. But for reliability and dealer/service satisfaction? Hmm...

They claimed that no Focus or Cobalt with stick was available to test.

Meaning that none of C&D's staff bothered to look at the twenty or so nearby Ford and Chevy dealers. My guess is there were dozens of shiny new examples within a 25-mile radius of where they tested. For that matter, since three of the cars tested cost north of $18K and one car tested is the dated Corolla, then why not test a 5-speed version of the recently-facelifted Impreza? The Impreza will run rings around most of the cars in the test and sweetens the pot with standard AWD.

[ocnblu]

I think they have to choose vehicles from the manufacturer's "press fleet" to test. C&D wouldn't go to a dealership to purchase a car.

As far as the Rabbit goes, there wouldn't be such a high percentage of old Rabbits on the road if they weren't durable, loved cars that were executed well. It's true, drive a VW, you'll see what I mean. From body solidity to interior appointments and especially to the feeling you get while driving, that intuitive ease of handling, just might win you over.

Yes, VW has had a rep lately of less than stellar dealer service departments, but like any make, the secret is finding a dealership you feel will listen to your needs.

[RBB]

the Mazda is a good car but it didn't win because of red dash lights.

Always good to hear that C&D is using such unquestionable criterion to choose the best small car.  C&D must be chummy with the folks at CR.

The Rabbit is the best overall.

For sportiness, probably so.  But for reliability and dealer/service satisfaction?  Hmm...

Actually, they liked the way the Mazda drove, and said the interior felt upscale (may not be an exact quote, but you get the gist). They didn't like some of the interior ergonomics - they complained of the spacing of the pedals and the dead pedal. They also complained that the IC dimmer didn't dim the speedo/tac, only the lights on the center stack. And yes, they didn't like the red dials. I can't say I agree with them there - I've got no problems with legibility of the red dials in my Mazda6.

They chose the Rabbit because it performed as well as the Madza at the track and had a more "traditional" (read: not red dials stuffed down tunnels) interior, and the ergonomics were better. Weird red dash aversion aside, I can't say I blame them. With similar performance, they picked the one that looked better and wasn't as confining. Reliability and dealer satisfaction shouldn't factor into a comparo unless something breaks during the test.

They claimed that no Focus or Cobalt with stick was available to test.

Meaning that none of C&D's staff bothered to look at the twenty or so nearby Ford and Chevy dealers.  My guess is there were dozens of shiny new examples within a 25-mile radius of where they tested.  For that matter, since three of the cars tested cost north of $18K and one car tested is the dated Corolla, then why not test a 5-speed version of the recently-facelifted Impreza?  The Impreza will run rings around most of the cars in the test and sweetens the pot with standard AWD.

217087[/snapback]

They said neither GM nor Ford could supply them a car, and as blu said, they're not going to buy one just for one test. You're correct: could have tested a 2.5 I Impreza, as it just barely squeaks under their cap with a $17,995 base MSRP.

-RBB

[ImpalaPete]

I think they have to choose vehicles from the manufacturer's "press fleet" to test.  C&D wouldn't go to a dealership to purchase a car.

As far as the Rabbit goes, there wouldn't be such a high percentage of old Rabbits on the road if they weren't durable, loved cars that were executed well.  It's true, drive a VW, you'll see what I mean.  From body solidity to interior appointments and especially to the feeling you get while driving, that intuitive ease of handling, just might win you over.

Yes, VW has had a rep lately of less than stellar dealer service departments, but like any make, the secret is finding a dealership you feel will listen to your needs.

217105[/snapback]

The old VWs are reliable for their simplicity, as can be said for many vehicles from the same era, with Big Three dominating. VWs in recent years are a horror story of problems, especially with wiring harnesses. VW service departments (as a whole) consistently ranking near the bottom of the barrel year after year after year makes matters worse. The problem with VW is that you likely have few local dealerships to pick from. Not many people want to drive another 25 to 50 miles each way if the closest VW dealership stinks. Not that VW does not make nice cars. For those fortunate enough to get a problem-free example, the vehicles are great. Within their price class, VW interiors are without equal.

[ImpalaPete]

They said neither GM nor Ford could supply them a car, and as blu said, they're not going to buy one just for one test.  You're correct: could have tested a 2.5 I Impreza, as it just barely squeaks under their cap with a $17,995 base MSRP.

-RBB

217112[/snapback]

I suspect that is half the story. Most probably GM and Ford could not provide a vehicle with a manual transmission on a moment's notice. They are tough enough to find at a dealership amongst a sea of slushboxes. Most fly off the lot shortly after arriving unless they are completely stripped models, because diehard MT fans (like me) jump at the opportunity when looking for new wheels, especially when the alternative is waiting two to four months for a special order.

[regfootball]

edmunds bought a new 07 chevy pickup just to do a test.

[CARBIZ]

A 5 spd manual Cobalt would be as rare as hen's teeth around here. We only currently have one base coupe in stock and a couple SS's. Nobody wants a 5 spd in the city any more.

What are the advantages? Gas mileage? Negligible. Performance. Also negligible. Cost savings? Maybe up front, but you get raped on resale and if you can't drive a clutch properly, the $800 clutch replacement every 3 years could be prohibitive.

Perhaps the twisties on the California coast look glamorous in the ads, but the reality of sitting in traffic on the freeway, trying to shift to lurch ahead 5 meters while drinking your second coffee on your morning commute - now that's glamorous!

[ocnblu]

I am a diehard manual transmission fanatic, but... with my commute as it is through the congested city, morning and night, 5 days a week, even I am thinking of an auto for my next vehicle. Unless it's a VW, although the DSG has won praise.

[siegen]

if you can't drive a clutch properly, the $800 clutch replacement every 3 years could be prohibitive.

217532[/snapback]

Are Cobalt's that bad? :AH-HA_wink:

[CARBIZ]

NO, but there are driver's who are THAT bad.

For example, in the '80s, I had a 1982 Rampage that went over 110,000 km onthe clutch before I replaced it ($500 back in '87), then I put 135,000 km on my '87 Shadow ES clutch and traded it with the original clutch. My sister, however, had an '85 Charger 2.2 and she burnt out the first clutch at 45k km and the second one at 110k. She was riding the clutch. Clearly, an automatic would have been better for her. Oh, and those were highway kms, too!!!

Modern automatics are the way to go. The PCM has better control of the cruise control, tranny and engine managements systems, too. Cheaper in the long run for MOST people.

It makes no sense to supply a 5 spd manual tranny in vehicles like the Impala, Malibu, etc. just to appease a few whiny magazine writers.

[ponchoman49]

Oh look, another Toyota rated near the bottom of the barrel. And our favorite rag CR just did a small car comparo and ranked the Yaris dead last.

Toyoduh: Moving backwards