Black Box Brouhaha

[Variance]

Black Box Brouhaha

A new federal rule to standardize minimum requirements for "black boxes" in vehicles wasn't expected to be controversial, but it has ignited a firestorm of protests from groups that largely agree the information collected by the devices improves auto safety.

All U.S. and foreign automakers have asked the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration to rewrite the rule because they say it's too vague and will cost too much to implement. Safety advocates say it doesn't go far enough.

Read "Black boxes spark uproar" @ The Detroit News

[CARBIZ]

Uh, I can't believe the stone silence from this board on this topic. YOu guys get riled up over little things (like the right to bare Uzis), yet this topic has laid here for 12 hours and nobody else has picked up on it?

A black box in a $60 million dollar plane makes a lot of sense. However, safety zealots are going to kill us - literally. Air bags, side air bags, ABS, stability control, telemetrics and black boxes - all of this sounds great on paper. Eventually, a Cobalt is going to cost $30k before taxes!

However, the biggest problem I have with this data being recorded is that most of the speed laws in both our countries are total BS (when 75% of the drivers ignore them, the law is WRONG) and you can bet that eventually the insurance industry is going to use this date to whip up people's rates. I have a BIG problem with that because so many traffic laws are arbitrary (like red stop lights on side streets at 2 a.m.!) and stupid.

Legislators need to standardize traffic laws and have them make sense. Electronic speed signs that allow for changing road conditions and lighter traffic, for example. Everyone is quick to hop on the band wagon when it comes to slapping more regulations on motorists, especially ones that have the potential to make both insurance companies and the government (fines) more money!

[Mr.Krinkle]

its a mixed bag. there have already been cases where motorists were exhonerated from serious charges because

of the info they were able to pull up from the boxes.

gm among others (i believe) have had these in place for a few years already.

the info was limited to speed, braking, and i think wheel yaw. minimal to say the least. they also claim it can only be downloaded directly, not remotely.

rental agencies use them rather extensively from what ive heard and in fact

is in the fine print in some of the contracts...

as long as its not used to track or dispense tickets i think it does more good

than not but fundamentally im opposed to such an invasion of privacy.

but then again if you got hit by a speeding driver, drunk or sober, on either side...or a reckless idiot going the wrong way...and you know you werent in the wrong youd want every bit of help in making your case. like i say i know of at least once instance when it proved someones innocence who otherwise would be locked up.

its something that needs to be seriously legislated and evaluated.

[aaaantoine]

gm among others (i believe)  have had these in place for a few years already.

the info was limited to speed, braking, and i think wheel yaw.  minimal to say the least.  they also claim it can only be downloaded directly, not remotely.

210841[/snapback]

I think the information is transmitted to the OnStar service in the event of a crash, to help determine the severity.

[Mr.Krinkle]

the commercials indicate that airbag deployment is recorded which would for sure suggest it was a significant impact but

the specifics other than that arent readily disclosed. air-bag notification at least helps them determine the necessity and urgency of the response.

it wouldnt surprise me though if on-star does record that information. id just as soon guess that info wouldnt be made available to the dispatcher. thats more suitable for a detective or investigators concerns after the fact.

[Bizz]

"NHTSA has squandered an opportunity to fully realize the numerous safety benefits offered by EDRs," Public Citizen President Joan Claybrook wrote to the agency.

"With over 40,000 people dying on American roads each year, it is unconscionable for the agency to stumble on this issue and to prevent the maximization of EDR benefits."

how many airplane crash victims were brought back to life after the EDR was found, bitch? you know what else kills people, joan? breast cancer. how about we shove an EDR up your ass?

hows that carbiz?

[Z-06]

how many airplane crash victims were brought back to life after the EDR was found, bitch? you know what else kills people, joan? breast cancer. how about we shove an EDR up your ass?

:rotflmao: :rotflmao:

[Mr.Krinkle]

how many airplane crash victims were brought back to life after the EDR was found, bitch? you know what else kills people, joan? breast cancer. how about we shove an EDR up your ass?

hows that carbiz?

216799[/snapback]

Thats funny.. but how many crashes or malfunctions were prevented because

of what was learned from those crashes?. I dont know the answer but who wants to be known as a white lab rat anyway.

It isnt only about figuring out what went wrong, but why and how to possibly

correct it so the same thing doesnt happen to my ass or yours.

I still dont know if its worth it.

[CARBIZ]

A piano could fall on my head as I type this: how much money and time should investigators waste figuring out how a piano fell on me?

Safety is great. Clearly, seat belts and safer cars are great. Why I don't trust the police/government/insurance industry is because what all of this will inevitably lead toward is more REVENUE. More tickets, more insurance hikes - and most of it on bogus, arbitrary traffic laws.

Hell, when I was in Brazil last year there was photo radar everywhere. People are being carjacked at red lights in the cities and mugged, but the government is worried about speeding on a country highway. NOT!

There is an entire industry sprouted up around traffic and so-called "safety." Color me skeptical when the usual suspects produce studies and reports about how speed kills and other such nonsense.

So, yeah, coming soon to a court near you: Black Box versus Mr. Smith. "That's $300 for speeding, Mr. Smith. Oh, and by the way: your insurance is going to double. Have a nice day, sir."

[Mr.Krinkle]

A piano could fall on my head as I type this: how much money and time should investigators waste figuring out how a piano fell on me?

  Safety is great.  Clearly, seat belts and safer cars are great.  Why I don't trust the police/government/insurance industry is because what all of this will inevitably lead toward is more REVENUE.  More tickets, more insurance hikes - and most of it on bogus, arbitrary traffic laws.

  Hell, when I was in Brazil last year there was photo radar everywhere.  People are being carjacked at red lights in the cities and mugged, but the government is worried about speeding on a country highway.  NOT! 

  There is an entire industry sprouted up around traffic and so-called "safety."  Color me skeptical when the usual suspects produce studies and reports about how speed kills and other such nonsense. 

  So, yeah, coming soon to a court near you: Black Box versus Mr. Smith.  "That's $300 for speeding, Mr. Smith.  Oh, and by the way: your insurance is going to double.  Have a nice day, sir."

216888[/snapback]

They can already do that stuff now if they so choose.

Be careful of those fiber optics, too.

[evok]

They can already do that stuff now if they so choose.

Be careful of those fiber optics, too.

216897[/snapback]

Yea - Every month I get an email from OnStar telling me my mileage and other vital interests about my vehicle. My portable GPS devise when I was playing with it while driving tells me how fast I am moving and it is the same at least in whole numbers to what is on my IP. The trip computer on my GPS devise is with fractions of what my cars records after a long trip.

a + b = c

Edited November 17, 2006 by evok

[Mr.Krinkle]

Yea - Every month I get an email from OnStar telling me my mileage and other vital interests about my vehicle.  My portable GPS devise when I was playing with it while driving tells me how fast I am moving and it is the same at least in whole numbers to what is on my IP.  The trip computer on my GPS devise is with fractions of what my cars records after a long trip.

a + b = c

216952[/snapback]

When they started using E-Z pass around here the first thing I thought was- now theyll know how long it takes you to get in between toll booths.

Some places you dont even need to slow down to pay the toll, it just reads it.

Its never been a problem but looking at the monthly statement im either saying-- damn! how long was i sitting in traffic or sh*t I should slow down some more.

Its been a few years since and no warnings or tickets or pats on the back.

I guess if you said theres a sattelite watching me you wouldnt necesarily be lying.

Edited November 18, 2006 by Mr.Krinkle

[Bizz]

Thats funny.. but how many crashes or malfunctions were prevented because

of what was learned from those crashes?.  I dont know the answer but who wants to be known as a white lab rat anyway.

It isnt only about figuring out what went wrong, but why and how to possibly

correct it so the same thing doesnt happen to my ass or yours.

I still dont know if its worth it.

216883[/snapback]

i thought of that counter-point while typing the post. its not exactly an apple vs. apple comparison. first, aircraft are more complex and subjected to much more stress than cars. the chance for mechanical failure with disastrous results is far higher. second, cars dont tend to obliterate themseves upon crashing like aircraft. it is much harder to find mechanical failures from crashed aircraft due to the carnage resulting from the impact velocities. EDRs resulted from the difficulty in determining the reason for the crash. it aint that hard with cars.

so yes, i think EDRs in aircraft have saved lives. but i dont think it will do a damned thing to save lives in car crashes. mechanical failures are found quickly, hence recalls, and EDRs wont cure stoopid.

i just posted that real quick to try and stir up the thread because i agree with that other biz. well, and because ive read too much of the mental feces that woman produces over the years and needed to vent.

[Bizz]

Yea - Every month I get an email from OnStar telling me my mileage and other vital interests about my vehicle.  My portable GPS devise when I was playing with it while driving tells me how fast I am moving and it is the same at least in whole numbers to what is on my IP.  The trip computer on my GPS devise is with fractions of what my cars records after a long trip.

a + b = c

216952[/snapback]

im counting on my monthly email to let me know if ive pulled to right fuse or not.