New Jersey court recognizes

[CARBIZ]

I would hope that we, in the 21st Century, are above being mere life support systems for procreation. If religion teaches us anything, it is that we have some sort of "soul" or "spirit" or "spark" (even if it turns out to be nothing more than a certain critical mass of intelligence/self-awareness) that sets us apart from the animals.

If parents have to be "hard wired" to their spawn, then they shouldn't be parents. It is on this issue (and others) that religion in general begins to break down on hard inspection. With nearly 7 billion people on this planet, we need to move away from thinking of ourselves as put on this earth to creat more copies of ourselves!

That is bordering on irresponsible.

[regfootball]

I completely agree. Those who follow that faith are free to follow it. Where that becomes a problem is when people of faith try to force their faith onto others through civil law.

209704[/snapback]

well, but that's also kind of why i say, let's not use the term marraige then for civil union, regardless if whether its HTROSXL or HMOSXL. Use the term civil union for legalities. Preserve the term marraige for religious interpretation.

[regfootball]

I would hope that we, in the 21st Century, are above being mere life support systems for procreation.  If religion teaches us anything, it is that we have some sort of "soul" or "spirit" or "spark" (even if it turns out to be nothing more than a certain critical mass of intelligence/self-awareness) that sets us apart from the animals.

  If parents have to be "hard wired" to their spawn, then they shouldn't be parents.  It is on this issue (and others) that religion in general begins to break down on hard inspection.  With nearly 7 billion people on this planet, we need to move away from thinking of ourselves as put on this earth to creat more copies of ourselves!

  That is bordering on irresponsible.

209705[/snapback]

i dunno. in reality, our only purpose really is to serve and create the others we share the planet with. we don't exist unto ourselves. our purpose is not for ourselves, but for others and we are the result of a higher power. Our reason for our higher intellect vs other species is for our spiritual link to our faith/higher power and to give us moral decision making ability.

[Croc]

That may, or may not, have been a rare exception.  For one of my friends, a practicing Catholic, married someone of the Jewish faith, in an interfaith ceremony, by a Catholic Priest.

Yet I can think of three people, off the top-of-my-head, that had to convert to Catholicism before being married in the Church.

Perhaps the rules governing marriage covenants, differ between arch diocese...

Also, the Catholic Church tends to look down on divorcees.

209581[/snapback]

Depends on how much money you have...

209674[/snapback]

You only have to convert if you have a Catholic Wedding...but a wedding in a Catholic church by a Catholic priest that doesn't include a Catholic mass doesn't matter if both are Catholic or not...unless the priest does not want to. Edited October 28, 2006 by Croc

[Drew Dowdell]

well, but that's also kind of why i say, let's not use the term marraige then for civil union, regardless if whether its HTROSXL or HMOSXL.  Use the term civil union for legalities.  Preserve the term marraige for religious interpretation.

209712[/snapback]

suppose there are religious interpretations, other than your own, that allow gay marriage?

just saying....

[regfootball]

suppose there are religious interpretations, other than your own, that allow gay marriage?

just saying....

209723[/snapback]

its fine by me, you should have been able to decode that from my posts.

i think many protestant based christian denominations are practicing that now.

again, it's why I am saying, let's separate the term marraige and civil union. then civil union is applicable to anyone. marraige is then a term defined by your belief system.

if you feel in your heart what you want is right and your belief system does not support that, then you either need to find a new belief system that does, or you need to examine why the belief system you are in does not. Then it comes down to, if you have faith that the belief system is correct and you're not en mesh.....then there is unhappiness. If you are at odds with something you need to find a resolution or you will be unhappy.

I am not sure the courts and civil arena etc. and politics are the ultimate place of resolution for that. It may help with righting public acceptance over a long period of time. i am not sure it solves each individual's personal situation in terms of spiritual peace or acceptance or comfort level.

Edited October 28, 2006 by regfootball

[razoredge]

I wasnt being uncivil, I really believe same sex in a house with children present, is wrong, its my belief and I suspect that would be a majority.

You are correct about what constitutes suitable parents. Hell, we're not even the best, that is surely impossible, with being human and all. However, anyone that has not held their own creation in their arms is absolutely clueless, make no mistake ! I emphazise that for a good reason, and any real parents will verify, I was clueless until it happened....not being a mother and all....I imagine they feel it long before we slothy bruts do. When you hold that baby in your arms, it rocks your world....everything changes. Suddenly you understand what it means to go to earths end, live and die for, its a love not even on the charts when it comes to "relationships". I simply cant find words. Gay couples of either sex can not witness this, its that simple.

I certainly will make note that I do not sterio type all gay people. But I will say there is some questionalable issues within the population. There is also issues within the "straight" population, but to me somehow the gay issue compounds things.

Now you must remember, I have mentioned a few times that I have a "live and let die" view. I'm not religious by any means but somehow my belief that "things happen for a reason" almost proves otherwise. The "things happen for a reason" is the reason that I can accept most same sex people in the first place. I recognize that some guys and gals are born with tendencies opposite what their sex indicates. I dont feel that it is what ever the terms used by the religous hard core try to convey. Its simply something that happened to some peoples makeup. However I do also believe there are those out there that my have been detoured by other reasons.

"Things happen for a reason" I also apply to infertile couples, I believe some things were not meant to be. So yes I say the same to infertile couples. However they did not click the "cant reproduce" button with their choise of partner. It seems to me somewhere in here the gay community needs to realize that with their given situation sacrifices will go hand in hand.

You all will eventually do fine though, with todays more tolerant views the bureaucracy is more than happy to pull our children from our homes over teenage drama/discipline issues and apparently allow adopted parenting at questionable rates, under questionable circumstances. Im not talking about the gay issue either.

[Drew Dowdell]

Suddenly you understand what it means to go to earths end, live and die for, its a love not even on the charts when it comes to "relationships". I simply cant find words. Gay couples of either sex can not witness this, its that simple.

209805[/snapback]

The rest of your post was quite valid personal opinions. This one part I quoted though, I must disagree with. Gay men can, and often do, find surrogate mothers. Lesbians have artificial insemination. Alternative methods, yes, but still workable and still produce the same emotions.

I think the situation you described may be more appropriate for couples who adopt, heterosexual or homosexual.

But to say that homosexuals aren't capable of the emotions you describe is just silly.... and you're talking in absolutes again.

There are questionable issues within both the gay and straight populations. The difference is, usually the gays with the issues don't want the kids in the first place so that is a self solving problem.

One of the problems with adoption right now is that white babies are in the highest demand, but black babies stay up for adoption for years. Sick black babies are doomed to temporary foster care for most of their short lives.

It is an unusual tendency that gay couples are less picky on which color child they adopt. They'll often even take the sick babies that no one else wants.

These are children who would otherwise live in foster homes or orphanages. Would you deny them a loving, stable, pair of dads?

[razoredge]

First part, I just disagree, I dont feel these options should exist. I wont argue it, it would be ugly of me. Im pretty radical

I wouldnt say they can not have these emotions, Im alot of things but stupid doesnt apply. Im saying they made a choice either willfully of because of things they have no control over. This end result brings a couple that can not naturally reproduce, there has got to be some kind of indication here, an indication that clearly implies sacrafice. Ill have to ask my mate if she would mind me impregnating and having a child with another woman, and then if she will help me raise it.......see its not natural.

"white babies are in the highest demand" This is part of the questionable circumstances I was refering to. As well as foreign adaptions. As well as anti abortion issues. As well as crack babies. Yea, thats a deep mudpuddle for sure, one that gets real messy when someone like myself drops a stick of dynamite in it. That is why babies should NOT be in demand, remove the issue and loose the issue. Ignore it and you have people whoreing for babies, the most vile perversion human kind can stoop to. Ever wonder how many of these drug/prostitute/teen births are reoccuring ? Scarry, and to think we have anti abortion fruitcakes running loose. Wonder how many of them have a housefull of adopted or fostered crack babies ?

My real close friends family adopted another son, when we were young. There was lots of issues, the first and most obvious were genetic when he hit his growth spurt. Then he had questionable interpretations of right and wrong, then he ended up being an amature thief. His upbringing showed a very respectful, decent kid to talk to, though some statements would raise a brow, but behind the scenes was quite opposite. Last I knew he still didnt have it together.

This is a huge issue indeed and last thing we need is a demand for children.

[2005 EquinoxLS]

I dont care what direction this whole thing goes. What people do in their private lives is their own buisness. I am a straight male but I have no issue with gays as long as it is understood that I am not gay. Everyone has the right to live their lives they way they want as long as it doesnt hurt anybody else.