*Gasp* Another Camry glitch

[Flybrian]

I work for Toyota, because that would explain the way I think.

207270[/snapback]

Fixed.

[Croc]

I work for Toyota, because that would explain the way I respond.

207270[/snapback]

Fixed x2

[ServiceAdvisor]

Fixed x2

207285[/snapback]

Ok, so why is GM doing so bad and Toyota doing so good? Let's hear your opinion and see how much you think you know.

[Drew Dowdell]

Ok, so why is GM doing so bad and Toyota doing so good? Let's hear your opinion and see how much you think you know.

207293[/snapback]

Toyota is better at PR and the fact that have legions of kool-aid swilling junkies like you who do nothing but slam GM and ignore Toyota's serious faults.

[Croc]

Ok, so why is GM doing so bad and Toyota doing so good? Let's hear your opinion and see how much you think you know.

207293[/snapback]

GM is still the #1 Automaker. They are in the process of "right-sizing" so they do not have excess workers, excess factories and excess capacity. GM's quality is up. GM is making money on its compact cars. GM's near-future vehicles are looking like solid hits.

Toyota is growing rapidly. Toyota's recalls are growing rapidly. Toyota has been covering up recall problems. Do you honestly think the Hilux incident is a single isolated case? Toyota was recently scolded by the Japanese government for their ethical/safety problems pertaining to their recalls. USA Today reviews the Avalon and interior parts fall off. That doesn't happen to a GM.

What is GM doing so badly?

What is Toyota doing so well?

[regfootball]

GM is still the #1 Automaker.  They are in the process of "right-sizing" so they do not have excess workers, excess factories and excess capacity.  GM's quality is up.  GM is making money on its compact cars.  GM's near-future vehicles are looking like solid hits.

Toyota is growing rapidly.  Toyota's recalls are growing rapidly.  Toyota has been covering up recall problems.  Do you honestly think the Hilux incident is a single isolated case?  Toyota was recently scolded by the Japanese government for their ethical/safety problems pertaining to their recalls.  USA Today reviews the Avalon and interior parts fall off.  That doesn't happen to a GM.

What is GM doing so badly?

What is Toyota doing so well?

207327[/snapback]

judging by today's sunday car section, toyota has gotten very good at incentives, 3-4 thousand, nothing stops toyota!

[Guest YellowJacket894]

ServiceAdvisor, just what exactly do you advise other than blantant bull$h!?

You know just as much about cars as I know about turbine engines.

Ok, so why is GM doing so bad and Toyota doing so good? Let's hear your opinion and see how much you think you know.

GM is still the #1 Automaker.  They are in the process of "right-sizing" so they do not have excess workers, excess factories and excess capacity.  GM's quality is up.  GM is making money on its compact cars.  GM's near-future vehicles are looking like solid hits.

Toyota is growing rapidly.  Toyota's recalls are growing rapidly.  Toyota has been covering up recall problems.  Do you honestly think the Hilux incident is a single isolated case?  Toyota was recently scolded by the Japanese government for their ethical/safety problems pertaining to their recalls.  USA Today reviews the Avalon and interior parts fall off.  That doesn't happen to a GM.

What is GM doing so badly?

What is Toyota doing so well?

Quoted for emphasis. Quoted for truth. Quoted because it answers your question.

[ServiceAdvisor]

GM is still the #1 Automaker.  They are in the process of "right-sizing" so they do not have excess workers, excess factories and excess capacity.  GM's quality is up.  GM is making money on its compact cars.  GM's near-future vehicles are looking like solid hits.

Toyota is growing rapidly.  Toyota's recalls are growing rapidly.  Toyota has been covering up recall problems.  Do you honestly think the Hilux incident is a single isolated case?  Toyota was recently scolded by the Japanese government for their ethical/safety problems pertaining to their recalls.  USA Today reviews the Avalon and interior parts fall off.  That doesn't happen to a GM.

What is GM doing so badly?

What is Toyota doing so well?

207327[/snapback]

GM is the #1 automaker because they have 9 different brands! lol They used too at least, god knows what they will have to sell off to help with the recovery. Their financial problems didn't just happen overnight! Being loyal is one thing, but ignoring what got them in this position is another. A poorly made product, a greedy union and worthless upper management with no vision is why they are losing billions every quarter. Toyota is more dependable and they hold their value better than just about any current GM product. That's not an opinion that's a fact and anyone in the car business knows that. The American people are tired of buying junk! GM knew where this was heading back in the 70's and they didn't have enough vision to understand what their customer's wanted or they didn't care. You can do your best to get on here and bash Toyota, but the number's don't lie no matter how you look at them. It won't be long before they have more market share than GM and that will be the nail in their coffin. Don't get me wrong, I hope they do recover from this and get some management in there with half a brain. I'm just a realistic person than doesn't sugar coat it, make excuses or blame everyone else for my own bad decision's like a lot of people do for GM.

[Flybrian]

Ok, so why is GM doing so bad and Toyota doing so good? Let's hear your opinion and see how much you think you know.

207293[/snapback]

How much do you think you know?

You come in here with an aire of superiority throwing out tactily false statements like the Corolla hasn't had a single recall in forty years and spewing crap about some made-up problem on a sedan you clearly know nothing about except you "took three to an auto auction," whatever that means.

Even the regulars around here who adore Toyotas have some rationality and tact about them, admitting when Toyota has its faults just as we do when GM does; you don't.

So, the answer to your question is that I'm not going to provide an answer because its not worth the time. You've set your standard pretty unequivocally that any answer anyone provides won't be good enough for you. Why come here and ask loaded questions? Think about it. Think about how much you know.

[ServiceAdvisor]

ServiceAdvisor, just what exactly do you advise other than blantant bull$h!?

You know just as much about cars as I know about turbine engines.

Quoted for emphasis. Quoted for truth. Quoted because it answers your question.

207366[/snapback]

As far as the recall's are concerned you obviously have no idea what the truth is! I have a computer at work with every GM and Toyota recall for the last 15 years or so and I promise you for every 10 GM recalls, Toyota may have 1 or 2. There are 7 on the Envoy alone and still counting. May be you should go to work for GM, it looks like that kind of thinking has been working really well for them. You can blame everyone else, but it doesn't change the fact that they created their own problem's.

[ServiceAdvisor]

How much do you think you know?

You come in here with an aire of superiority throwing out tactily false statements like the Corolla hasn't had a single recall in forty years and spewing crap about some made-up problem on a sedan you clearly know nothing about except you "took three to an auto auction," whatever that means.

Even the regulars around here who adore Toyotas have some rationality and tact about them, admitting when Toyota has its faults just as we do when GM does; you don't.

So, the answer to your question is that I'm not going to provide an answer because its not worth the time. You've set your standard pretty unequivocally that any answer anyone provides won't be good enough for you. Why come here and ask loaded questions? Think about it. Think about how much you know.

207377[/snapback]

Hey, it's your own little world your living in so you can believe what you want. The truth obviously isn't part of it, but if it helps you sleep better at night then so be it. I'm not saying that Toyota doesn't have it's faults, but it's no where near GM's!

[Guest YellowJacket894]

GM is the #1 automaker because they have 9 different brands! lol  They used too at least, god knows what they will have to sell off to help with the recovery. Their financial problems didn't just happen overnight! Being loyal is one thing, but ignoring what got them in this position is another. A poorly made product, a greedy union and worthless upper management with no vision is why they are losing billions every quarter. Toyota is more dependable and they hold their value better than just about any current GM product. That's not an opinion that's a fact and anyone in the car business knows that. The American people are tired of buying junk! GM knew where this was heading back in the 70's and they didn't have enough vision to understand what their customer's wanted or they didn't care. You can do your best to get on here and bash Toyota, but the number's don't lie no matter how you look at them. It won't be long before they have more market share than GM and that will be the nail in their coffin. Don't get me wrong, I hope they do recover from this and get some management in there with half a brain. I'm just a realistic person than doesn't sugar coat it, make excuses or blame everyone else for my own bad decision's like a lot of people do for GM.

207375[/snapback]

As far as the recall's are concerned you obviously have no idea what the truth is! I have a computer at work with every GM and Toyota recall for the last 15 years or so and I promise you for every 10 GM recalls, Toyota may have 1 or 2. There are 7 on the Envoy alone and still counting. May be you should go to work for GM, it looks like that kind of thinking has been working really well for them. You can blame everyone else, but it doesn't change the fact that they created their own problem's.

What a load of $h!.

I want to respond to your (to replace a more blunt word) statements with some straight facts. I really do. However, whenever I read your posts, I can't get past the obvious amount of pathedic ingnorance you use. If you're a Toyota fanboy, fine. It's what company you've decided to support. You obviously see something good in that company I never will.

I'll close by quoting Fly. I can't say it much better than he did.

How much do you think you know?

You come in here with an aire of superiority throwing out tactily false statements like the Corolla hasn't had a single recall in forty years and spewing crap about some made-up problem on a sedan you clearly know nothing about except you "took three to an auto auction," whatever that means.

Even the regulars around here who adore Toyotas have some rationality and tact about them, admitting when Toyota has its faults just as we do when GM does; you don't.

So, the answer to your question is that I'm not going to provide an answer because its not worth the time. You've set your standard pretty unequivocally that any answer anyone provides won't be good enough for you. Why come here and ask loaded questions? Think about it. Think about how much you know.

[Flybrian]

I'm not saying that Toyota doesn't have it's faults...

207383[/snapback]

Corolla...has never had a recall since the day it was introduced back in 1967.

206637[/snapback]

kthxbye

[Guest YellowJacket894]

And I can't see why we can't just ban single-minded fools like ServiceAdvisor. When a member's sole purpose is to troll a site, post spam, take away from the overall conversation at place, and act as if they are the Alpha and the Omega, the only correct person to be born, they deserve to be banned.

I volunteer to do the job. And I'll start with SA.

Edited October 22, 2006 by YellowJacket894

[ServiceAdvisor]

And I can't see why we can't just ban single-minded fools like ServiceAdvisor. When a member's sole purpose is to troll a site, post spam, take away from the overall conversation at place, and act as if they are the Alpha and the Omega, the only correct person to be born, they deserve to be banned.

I volunteer to do the job. And I'll start with SA.

207388[/snapback]

I don't go around posting spam, but is apparent that you are single-minded about GM. You seem to have all this good proof that I'm wrong, but you back down at the last moment when it comes to producing it on here. Show me something that proves GM is as good as you make it out to be. If you can prove me wrong then I will give credit where credit is due. I don't need to show proof on here, because it's everywhere you look. The internet, the news, the newspaper,etc... It's seems to me this whole thing started because I didn't agree with something you said or you didn't agree with something I said. You know I have the proof, so let's see your's! Show me in the number's where GM hasn't caused their own financial problems because of the reason's I stated earlier. Like I said earlier, I hope GM does recover and becomes the giant they once were, but let's be honest and admit what got them in this position. All Toyota did was make a better product when the public needed it, the rest is history. Ban me if you want, it just show's your true inability take an opinion that doesn't agree with your view's.

[Guest YellowJacket894]

I don't go around posting spam, but is apparent that you are single-minded about GM. You seem to have all this good proof that I'm wrong, but you back down at the last moment when it comes to producing it on here. Show me something that proves GM is as good as you make it out to be. If you can prove me wrong then I will give credit where credit is due.

Hey, Pot, don't call me black.

I really don't see you posting links to any kind of website that will back-up your opinion, either.

I don't need to show proof on here, because it's everywhere you look.

Uh-huh.

If the rule you stated earlier applies to me, it must apply to you as well. Otherwise, you are a hipocrite.

The internet, the news, the newspaper,etc...

Yeah, you can't really trust the auto media. They're biased to whoever they feel like being biased to (or whoever is writing the checks).

It's seems to me this whole thing started because I didn't agree with something you said or you didn't agree with something I said.

It did. You were posting ignorant and biased material and I don't agree with that.

You know I have the proof, so let's see your's!

No. I don't know that you have proof because you haven't posted any kind of solid facts here.

Post how many recalls GM had from the start of the last model year to the end of the current one. Let's see how they match up to Toyota. Then you can say you've backed-up at least one of your statements, if not have it proved false.

Show me in the number's where GM hasn't caused their own financial problems because of the reason's I stated earlier.

GM, at the moment, isn't in a major financial situation. Losses are being reversed and profit will continue to increase over the next few years.

Anyway, they're not in a finanical situation because of the reasons you stated. When you sum up the big picture, it was due to building products people really didn't want and that suffered in quality. That problem is quickly being solved.

Like I said earlier, I hope GM does recover and becomes the giant they once were, but let's be honest and admit what got them in this position.

You never stated you wished GM to recover. Never. You kept dry humping Toyota's leg like all of the other people who buy from them -- people who buy the product because they don't give a $h! what they spend twenty-five grand on and because they go by reputation. I have news for you, Junior, sometimes reputation is ill-deserved.

And I will be honest about GM's faults. I don't expect you to read all three-thousand of my posts to see where I've stated at least one of them from time to time, but I have.

All Toyota did was make a better product when the public needed it, the rest is history.

No. All Toyota really did was build a car the size of a pack of gum that had frugal fuel economy during the Energy Crisis of the Seventies and sell them to people who couldn't afford gas at the time.

And, honestly, hybrid compact cars aren't what America needs, or wants for that matter. Appling fuel-saving technology to a car that is already conservative with fuel is like giving Head & Shoulders to Michael Jordan. If Toyota had built the first hybrid SUV, then they would be worthy of the status they aquired with the honestly pointless Prius.

Ban me if you want, it just show's your true inability take an opinion that doesn't agree with your view's.

No. You need to be banned because of the reasons I stated. You are trolling this site, you are detracting from conversations. You act as if you are the only person who is correct here just because you read some bull$h! in Consumer Reports.

Post a real opinion with some solid facts and maybe I can begin to have a real conversation with you. Until then, I have nothing further to say to you on this subject. So don't bother posting a reply to this.

[mustang84]

Toyota had extremely reliable products in the past, but those days are passing. The thing that is holding them both sales-wise and image-wise is their excellent PR department; without that, things wouldn't be nearly as rosey.

I mean...they had a criminal investigation in Japan for hiding defects and had to make a public apology to the Japanese people.

Camry hesitation, paint that scratches and peels easily, interior pieces that rattle, radio buttons that break, ball joints that break, engines that are notorious to sludging...go over to any Toyota board and just browse the posts for five minutes to see the problems that so many are voicing. Toyota still has a good name with some, but others are turning to different brands...many even GM and Ford.

Toyota is nowhere near poor quality product, but they do seem to be slipping. Sales aren't reflecting that yet, but if the problems persist and expand, don't expect this little bubble of growth to last forever.

[Drew Dowdell]

Quoted for emphasis. Quoted for truth. Quoted because it answers your question.

207366[/snapback]

As far as the recall's are concerned you obviously have no idea what the truth is! I have a computer at work with every GM and Toyota recall for the last 15 years or so and I promise you for every 10 GM recalls, Toyota may have 1 or 2. There are 7 on the Envoy alone and still counting. May be you should go to work for GM, it looks like that kind of thinking has been working really well for them. You can blame everyone else, but it doesn't change the fact that they created their own problem's.

207380[/snapback]

The difference of course being GM issues recalls to simply apply proper seatbelt labeling yet Toyota issues a rather silent TSB for an improperly designed seatbelt setup and airbag disable switch.

So, while GM may have greater in number, of the ones that count, Toyota has just as many that are severe.... and some that have been swept under the rug with secret extended warrenties.

[Flybrian]

I don't need to show proof on here, because it's everywhere you look. The internet, the news, the newspaper,etc...

207408[/snapback]

Sure is...

Avalon Shows Dent in Toyota Quality - Autoweek

Since the Avalon's 2005 redesign, Toyota has issued service bulletins to dealers on these topics:*Bad U-joint welds

*Faulty catalytic converters

*Leak in oil-supply line for variable valve timing

*Vehicle drifting

--------------------

Is Toyota's Quality Slipping? Surveys, Consumer Complaints Suggest It May Be - ConsumerAffairs.com

San Diego-based Strategic Vision surveyed more than 64,000 people who purchased new vehicles from October 2005 to March 2006. Consumers were surveyed after 90 days of ownership and asked if they thought they got their money�s worth.

Toyota, which had seven segment winners in 2005, took only three categories in the new study and has been moving slower than other brands when it comes to innovation, according to an auto industry analyst.

As Toyota executives struggle with their corporate image, Jennifer in Bardstown Kentucky is struggling with the foul smell pouring out of her new Toyota.

--------------------

A Dent in Toyota Quality? - New York Times

The news arrives in letters that no car owner wants to receive. The power steering of their hard-to-get hybrid could fail, some learn, while others are told the tires on the small pickups could bulge and possibly burst. Still more owners find out their airbags may not inflate during a crash

--------------------

Toyota Quality Concerns Delay New Corolla - The Auto Channel

Instead, the company has decided to prioritise quality and start sales more gradually, the paper added.

--------------------

Toyota Recall Hits 1M Vehicles - DetNews

Toyota Motor Corp. said Tuesday it is recalling nearly 1 million vehicles across the globe to replace faulty parts that could cause drivers to lose control of the steering wheel.

The recall affects about 986,000 vehicles across 10 models, including its popular Prius hybrid car.

--------------------

NHTSA Makes Toyota Recall Tundra Over LATCH Debacle - Autoblog

Toyota went this way because engineering new child safety seat latches for the front passenger seat of the Tundra would be extremely expensive and difficult.

On the other hand...

General Motors: Award-Recognized Quality - J.D. Power & Associates

This year, 28 models from General Motors brands rank among the top three in their respective segments, and GM plants receive Gold and Silver awards for highest initial quality in North/South America for three years running.

--------------------

General Motors is changing perception, reality and warranties - Contra-Costa Times

At the same time, evidence is clearly mounting that GM quality is improving. A University of Michigan analysis of customer attitudes found that GM is doing a better job of impressing buyers. Quality surveys, such as J.D. Power and Associates Initial Quality Survey (quality in the first 30 days of ownership) and Dependability Survey (over years of ownership), show GM improving.

--------------------

GM Sees Profits on Small Cars - Wall Street Journal

The Chevrolet Cobalt, he said, is already generating profits. "We now make money on that car," he said. The Cobalt is now selling without any major cash incentives, Mr. Lutz said. That also helps the car turn a profit.

--------------------

GM Dow's Top Performer - Market Watch

The well-publicized problems battering the U.S. auto industry failed to dampen enthusiasm for General Motors Corp. shares in the third quarter, with the world's largest automobile maker holding its position as 2006's top performer in the Dow Jones Industrial Average -- with a staggering 71% gain.

[ServiceAdvisor]

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see what kind of situation GM is in. If you don't think losing 10.5 billion last year a bad financial situation then you are either very rich or don't have a clue. Last year wasn't the first for this either, it's slowly been growing. Do you watch the news at all? It's right there in black and white. This hasn't been any kind of secret by any means as to why GM and Ford are hurting badly! They admitted to what caused these problem's in both company's on national T.V.. I guess that's why I continue to even waste my time talking about the whole thing, and you call me single-minded and biased! lol

You can call me "junior" or whatever else but it just proves my point. I can guarantee that I am a lot older than you think and have probably forgot more about the car business than you know. The one thing that I have learned over the year's is that change is inevitable and if you can't change with the time's then you get left behind. Time for you to play catch up and realize where the world is headed, because GM and Ford are just now understanding it.. They haven't figured anything out, we are getting brand new GM's ('07's) traded in every day with less than 5,000 miles on them because of the rattles, squeaks and engine noises! lol

There might be a little show of profit right now, but unless they get someone in there that can think outside the box then they aren't going anywhere. Quantity over quality has never worked and it took them how many years to figure this out?

It's pretty obvious that yellowjacket hates Toyota's, but for no other reason than that they are not from America. I know quite a few that are like that and we understand each other and agree to disagree. They know how Toyota got where they are and know why GM is in their current position, but they still hate them. No single-minded people here, but you might want to look in the mirror!

[siegen]

As far as the recall's are concerned you obviously have no idea what the truth is! I have a computer at work with every GM and Toyota  recall for the last 15 years or so and I promise you for every 10 GM recalls, Toyota may have 1 or 2. There are 7 on the Envoy alone and still counting. May be you should go to work for GM, it looks like that kind of thinking has been working really well for them. You can blame everyone else, but it doesn't change the fact that they created their own problem's.

207380[/snapback]

GM did create their own problems, just as Toyota is now. You can't deny that Toyota has had a lot more recalls recently, and has been struggling to meet their model cycle deadlines. We may poke fun at Toyota but they do seem to be overextending themselves quite a bit to acheive their goals (rather than growing steadily).

[ServiceAdvisor]

Sure is...

Avalon Shows Dent in Toyota Quality - Autoweek

Since the Avalon's 2005 redesign, Toyota has issued service bulletins to dealers on these topics:*Bad U-joint welds

*Faulty catalytic converters

*Leak in oil-supply line for variable valve timing

*Vehicle drifting

--------------------

Is Toyota's Quality Slipping? Surveys, Consumer Complaints Suggest It May Be - ConsumerAffairs.com

San Diego-based Strategic Vision surveyed more than 64,000 people who purchased new vehicles from October 2005 to March 2006. Consumers were surveyed after 90 days of ownership and asked if they thought they got their money�s worth.

Toyota, which had seven segment winners in 2005, took only three categories in the new study and has been moving slower than other brands when it comes to innovation, according to an auto industry analyst.

As Toyota executives struggle with their corporate image, Jennifer in Bardstown Kentucky is struggling with the foul smell pouring out of her new Toyota.

--------------------

A Dent in Toyota Quality? - New York Times

The news arrives in letters that no car owner wants to receive. The power steering of their hard-to-get hybrid could fail, some learn, while others are told the tires on the small pickups could bulge and possibly burst. Still more owners find out their airbags may not inflate during a crash

--------------------

Toyota Quality Concerns Delay New Corolla - The Auto Channel

Instead, the company has decided to prioritise quality and start sales more gradually, the paper added.

--------------------

Toyota Recall Hits 1M Vehicles - DetNews

Toyota Motor Corp. said Tuesday it is recalling nearly 1 million vehicles across the globe to replace faulty parts that could cause drivers to lose control of the steering wheel.

The recall affects about 986,000 vehicles across 10 models, including its popular Prius hybrid car.

--------------------

NHTSA Makes Toyota Recall Tundra Over LATCH Debacle - Autoblog

Toyota went this way because engineering new child safety seat latches for the front passenger seat of the Tundra would be extremely expensive and difficult.

On the other hand...

General Motors: Award-Recognized Quality - J.D. Power & Associates

This year, 28 models from General Motors brands rank among the top three in their respective segments, and GM plants receive Gold and Silver awards for highest initial quality in North/South America for three years running.

--------------------

General Motors is changing perception, reality and warranties - Contra-Costa Times

At the same time, evidence is clearly mounting that GM quality is improving. A University of Michigan analysis of customer attitudes found that GM is doing a better job of impressing buyers. Quality surveys, such as J.D. Power and Associates Initial Quality Survey (quality in the first 30 days of ownership) and Dependability Survey (over years of ownership), show GM improving.

--------------------

GM Sees Profits on Small Cars - Wall Street Journal

The Chevrolet Cobalt, he said, is already generating profits. "We now make money on that car," he said. The Cobalt is now selling without any major cash incentives, Mr. Lutz said. That also helps the car turn a profit.

--------------------

GM Dow's Top Performer - Market Watch

The well-publicized problems battering the U.S. auto industry failed to dampen enthusiasm for General Motors Corp. shares in the third quarter, with the world's largest automobile maker holding its position as 2006's top performer in the Dow Jones Industrial Average -- with a staggering 71% gain.

207451[/snapback]

If this is the case then why are GM's warranty number's so high that dealership's are actually having to turn warranty work down or the dealership pay's for it. The number's don't lie folks! Even if Toyota is having a few quality issue's, which really haven't surfaced like some people claim, you know that it won't last. The fact that they are slowing down production is proof that it will soon be a thing of the past. GM need's new management folk's and Rick Waggoner know's it is got to happen for them to recover. If I'm not mistaken didn't their stock drop when Kerkorian announced that he was no longer buying shares of the company? The share increase was based on Kerkorian eventually having controlling interest in the company and now who know's what will happen? There will probably be a proxy fight for the company and this will either make or break GM. Hell, at least Bill Ford was smart enough to realize he wasn't getting it done and moved over.

[DetroitNut90]

If this is the case then why are GM's warranty number's so high that dealership's are actually having to turn warranty work down or the dealership pay's for it. The number's don't lie folks! Even if Toyota is having a few quality issue's, which really haven't surfaced like some people claim, you know that it won't last. The fact that they are slowing down production is proof that it will soon be a thing of the past. GM need's new management folk's and Rick Waggoner know's it is got to happen for them to recover. If I'm not mistaken didn't their stock drop when Kerkorian announced that he was no longer buying shares of the company? The share increase was based on Kerkorian eventually having controlling interest in the company and now who know's what will happen? There will probably be a proxy fight for the company and this will either make or break GM. Hell, at least Bill Ford was smart enough to realize he wasn't getting it done and moved over.

207467[/snapback]

Recall=TSB, Special Service Campaign in Toyota-ese.

What do you mean "the problems aren't surfacing like people claim"?? If the government is making Toyota recall vehicles, then there are enough people noticing the problems and complaining about them for there to be a recall.

And no one wants Kerkorian to be involved with GM except Kerkorian. Placing him in charge would be the final nail in GM's coffin.

Edited October 23, 2006 by DetroitNut90

[Variance]

If I'm not mistaken didn't their stock drop when Kerkorian announced that he was no longer buying shares of the company?

207467[/snapback]

Initally. Then it bounced right back within days.

[Flybrian]

If this is the case then why are GM's warranty number's so high that dealership's are actually having to turn warranty work down or the dealership pay's for it. The number's don't lie folks! Even if Toyota is having a few quality issue's, which really haven't surfaced like some people claim, you know that it won't last. The fact that they are slowing down production is proof that it will soon be a thing of the past. GM need's new management folk's and Rick Waggoner know's it is got to happen for them to recover. If I'm not mistaken didn't their stock drop when Kerkorian announced that he was no longer buying shares of the company? The share increase was based on Kerkorian eventually having controlling interest in the company and now who know's what will happen? There will probably be a proxy fight for the company and this will either make or break GM. Hell, at least Bill Ford was smart enough to realize he wasn't getting it done and moved over.

207467[/snapback]

Did you not say, "prove it"?

Did I not prove it?

Are you now not moving off to some other tangent?

Geez.

[04monteintimidator]

Even if Toyota is having a few quality issue's, which really haven't surfaced like some people claim,

207467[/snapback]

yeah thats literally the point of everyone elses post... toyotas quality issues get hidden by their PR department... so most people never hear of them... and thats a problem... because i know i would like to know whether or not i will randomly lose control of my steering wheel or all of a sudden not have enough power to accelerate into the passing lane... and those are two things an extended warranty arent going to help with once your car is totalled and you are in the hospital

you seem to have issues understanding what everyone is saying... i havent seen one person on here say that GM is not responsible for GMs problems...we alladmit they are but we also see that they are starting to turn it around... but you refuse to accept it... all you can think about is how pretty toyota looks after its PR department hangs pretty posters over all the blemishes on its image

you stated that GM lost 10.5 billion dollars last year...and you're right... they did... but lets think for a second shall we... ill actually use your words here... "If you don't think losing 10.5 billion last year a bad financial situation then you are either very rich or don't have a clue" GM... is the largest automaker in the world...and yes... it is because they have 9 brands...but guess what... it also means that... they are very rich! imagine that!

yes... GM has financial troubles... yes they have had quality issues in the past... an yes they are responsible for all of it... however...they are starting to turn that around... they are producing better quality, more appealing cars for every segment... toyota on the other hand... is starting to realize just how hard it is to maintain supreme quality and be such a big company... they are slipping... and the media is starting to take notice... and im sorry that you had to find out about it this way... but its the truth... its just how it is...

[Drew Dowdell]

If this is the case then why are GM's warranty number's so high that dealership's are actually having to turn warranty work down or the dealership pay's for it. The number's don't lie folks!

207467[/snapback]

Link?

Even if Toyota is having a few quality issue's, which really haven't surfaced like some people claim, you know that it won't last.

Fly filled a page with them!

[Guest YellowJacket894]

I'm begging the admininstration of this site to ban Service Advisor and members who do the same like him. Look how far off topic this thread has gotten because of his posts. Some action must be taken.

Something must be done about it.

If a person doesn't care for the opinions of a certain site, they do not have to post there. The moron in question has done this and continues to post the same tired mantra over and over again and lead the conversation away from the topic, as well as bashing members in the process.

If we are to maintain a clean site, we must do away with members like him.

This is my final message to ServiceAdvisor: If you are not going to back-up your statements with facts, at least post how you think GM can improve. For every bit of negative feedback, post a way you think GM can improve. (At least Buickman does this, thus making his presence at this site somewhat justified.)

[ServiceAdvisor]

http://www.lemonauto.com/complaints/default.htm

I do stand corrected on the Corolla and I apologize, but look at the number of affected cars when going through these. There isn't even a comparison between the two. lol

Take a look at this and I thing it speaks for itself!

Auto News & Advice

Consumer Reports' 2005 Survey Picks Best and Worst in Reliability advertisement

Consumer Reports offers in-depth vehicle reports for every model tested - to help you make the right purchasing decision on your next car or truck.

Japanese imports earned most of the top reliability honors, while European models scored well below average in this Consumer Reports study.

The Honda Ridgeline (shown) earned top ratings in the pickups segment, along with the Toyota Tundra.

Hybrids continue to be very reliable, including the oldest of hybrids, the Honda Insight.

European brands did not fare well in the SUV segment, including the Land Rover Range Rover.

The Prius is one of three Toyotas to be ranked in the most reliable small cars segment.

The Toyota Sienna stands alone as the only minivan to rate better than average.

Most of the worst sedans in Consumer Reports' ranking come from Europe, including this BMW 5-Series V8.

The Nissan Titan dropped from being average to being the worst in the list of pickups.

Japanese cars dominated the survey with 29 of 31 cars earning a top rating. Of these 29, fifteen came from Toyota and Lexus.

Our 2005 reliability survey, the largest of its kind, reached a milestone this year—we've gathered responses on more than 1 million vehicles from Consumer Reports and ConsumerReports.org subscribers, the most we've ever received. These results underpin the most comprehensive reliability data you will find anywhere. Here, we give you a first look at our new Reliability Ratings for new cars, based on this survey, and the models that we expect to be the most and least reliable.

The difference between the best and the worst models is striking. For example, among large SUVs the least reliable model, the Infiniti QX56, is likely to have about eight times as many problems as the most reliable model, the Toyota Land Cruiser.

See Best and worst for a list of the models that have earned the best and worst Reliability Ratings in various vehicle categories. Following are some of the more notable survey findings:

Of the 31 cars that earned top rating, 29 were Japanese. Of these, 15 were from Toyota and its Lexus division and eight were from Honda. Some redesigned or new Japanese models from Toyota and Honda, however suffered "first-year blues." The new Scion tC and the redesigned 2005 Acura RL, Toyota Avalon, and Honda Odyssey earned only average reliability scores, for example.

Of the 48 cars that earned the lowest rating, 22 carry American nameplates, 20 are European, 4 are from Japan (all from Nissan and its Infiniti division), and 2 are from South Korea.

Some European models, which have had poor reliability in our previous surveys, improved slightly. The six-cylinder BMW X5 and X3, for example, earned average Ratings and are now the first European SUVs reliable enough to be recommended. However, most European models still scored far below average.

Hybrids from both domestic and Japanese manufacturers continue to have above-average reliability, including the Honda Accord and Civic Hybrids, the Toyota Prius, and the Lexus RX400h, which received top scores.

CRUNCHING THE NUMBERS

To help car buyers find trustworthy vehicles, every year Consumer Reports conducts an extensive reliability survey of its approximately 6 million magazine and online subscribers, asking them about any serious problems they have had with their vehicles in the preceding 12 months.

This wealth of feedback helps us build comprehensive reliability history charts for vehicles covering eight model years from 1998 to 2005. They show how well older models are holding up and what types of problems they have had. For new car buyers we use the reliability history data to determine our Reliability Ratings.

SEDANS AND SMALL CARS

Toyota, along with its Lexus division, makes more than half of the sedans and small cars that earned our highest Reliability Rating. All the others that earned this Rating were also Japanese, including the Honda Accord and previous-generation Civic; the 2006 Infiniti M35/M45; and nonturbo models of the Subaru Impreza.

Most of the worst sedans in our rankings came from Europe, including several expensive luxury models such as the Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar S-Type, and the Mercedes-Benz E- and S-Class. The rest of the bottom-rated small cars and sedans were from domestic manufacturers and included the Chevrolet Cobalt, the V8-powered Chrysler 300C, and the Lincoln LS.

HYBRIDS

Hybrids continue to be very reliable, with both SUV and sedan models from Honda, Toyota, and Lexus earning the highest Rating. The Ford Escape SUV had above-average reliability. Even the oldest hybrids for which we have data, the 2000 Honda Insight and the 2001 Toyota Prius, continue to be very reliable.

SUVs

SUVs from Asian manufacturers were the most reliable overall. However, neither the large Nissan Armada nor its Infiniti QX56 cousin are past their teething problems yet. Two South Korean SUVs, the Hyundai Tucson and the Kia Sportage, also rate among the worst.

European brands anchored the least reliable list. Unreliable models included the V8 BMW X5, Land Rover Range Rover, Land Rover LR3, Porsche Cayenne, Volkswagen Touareg, and Volvo XC90. Notable exceptions were the BMW X3 and six-cylinder X5, which improved to average.

American SUVs continue to produce mixed results. While the Mercury Mariner was the best of the group, the Ford Explorer, Mercury Mountaineer, and Jeep Grand Cherokee were among the least reliable.

With the exception of the Chevrolet Tahoe and Suburban; the GMC Yukon and Yukon XL; and the Cadillac Escalade, the other American large SUVs have subpar reliability. The Japanese makers are split, with Toyota in the top spot and Nissan trailing at the bottom with one of the worst scores in our recent surveys.

MINIVANS

The Chrysler Town & Country and Dodge Grand Caravan dropped to below average in reliability, losing their recommendation. The Toyota Sienna is the only minivan that rates better than average. GM's minivans—the Buick Terraza, Chevrolet Uplander, Pontiac Montana SV6, and Saturn Relay—joined the Nissan Quest at the bottom of the list.

PICKUPS

The Toyota Tundra and the new Honda Ridgeline earned the top Ratings. The redesigned 2005 Toyota Tacoma V6 rated just average, but the four-cylinder Tacoma was above average. The Nissan Titan dropped from average and is now in the worst list. The Ford F-150 continued to score below average.

BEST & WORST

These 2006 models earned the highest and lowest Reliability Ratings, based on CR's 2005 reliability survey. Models marked with "(2005)" have been redesigned for 2006. Vehicles marked with an asterisk "*" indicate data is based on one model year only.

Most reliable Least reliable

Vehicles listed in scoring order, starting with the best score. Vehicles listed in scoring order, starting with the worst score.

SMALL CARS: Toyota Echo, Honda Civic (2005), Toyota Prius, Honda Civic Hybrid (2005), Toyota Corolla, Subaru Impreza (non-turbo) SMALL CARS: Chevrolet Cobalt*

SPORTY CARS/

CONVERTIBLES/COUPES: Honda S2000, Mazda MX-5 Miata (2005), Lexus SC430, Chevrolet Monte Carlo (2005) SPORTY CARS/

CONVERTIBLES/COUPES: Volkswagen New Beetle Convertible, Mercedes-Benz SL, Mercedes-Benz CLK, Ford Mustang (V6)*, Chevrolet Corvette*, Audi S4

SEDANS: Lexus GS300/GS430*, Infiniti M35/45*, Lexus IS300 (2005), Honda Accord Hybrid*, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord 4-cyl., Lexus LS430 SEDANS: Jaguar S-Type, Lincoln LS, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Saab 9-3, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, BMW 5-Series (V8), Audi A8, Chrysler 300 (V8)*, BMW 7 series

WAGONS: Toyota Matrix WAGONS: Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Volkswagen Passat (V6) (2005), Volvo V50*

MINIVANS: No models for this category. MINIVANS: Nissan Quest, Buick Terraza*, Chevrolet Uplander*, Pontiac Montana SV6*, Saturn Relay*

SMALL SUVS: Toyota RAV4 (2005), Honda CR-V, Honda Element, Subaru Forester, Mercury Mariner*, Mitsubishi Outlander SMALL SUVS: Saturn Vue (AWD), Hyundai Tucson*, Kia Sportage*

MIDSIZE SUVS: Lexus RX400h (Hybrid)*, Toyota Highlander, Toyota 4Runner (V8), Infiniti FX35 MIDSIZED SUVS: Volkswagen Touareg, Porsche Cayenne, Land Rover LR3*, Land Rover Range Rover*, Ford Explorer (2005), Mercury Mountaineer (2005), Jeep Grand Cherokee*, Ford Freestyle (AWD)*, Cadillac SRX, Volvo XC90, Chevrolet TrailBlazer (V8), GMC Envoy (V8), BMW X5 (V8)

LARGE SUVS: Toyota Land Cruiser LARGE SUVS: Infiniti QX56, Nissan Armada, Hummer H2, Lincoln Navigator, Ford Expedition

PICKUP TRUCKS: Honda Ridgeline*, Toyota Tundra PICKUP TRUCKS: Nissan Titan, Chevrolet Colorado (4WD), GMC Canyon (4WD)

The full Ratings and recommendations for more than 200 vehicles, along with the latest information on thousands of other products and services, are available to ConsumerReports.org subscribers. Find out how to subscribe today.

[04monteintimidator]

consumer reports... is not based on fact... it is based on what the people surveyed decided to write on the peice of paper that was mailed to them... and alot of times they willalter the data just because they think one car should be better than another...

we had a thread a while ago about it... where someones friend had an experience while his wife was filling out the consumer reports thing... and asked how much they had spent on his chevy truck which was decently old...and it was something like $150 to replace something minor... an then asked what they had spent on their daughters celica... when the wife heard that the celica had taken over $600 in repairs... she exclamed "no way did her toyota need mroe money than your chevy!!" and then altered the numbers to reflect her personal opinion

the thing is...with consumer reports...you just dont know... there is nothing really scientific about the way they go about gathering data for their surveys... JD Power is much better in that respect...hence why its results are held in much higher regard... i dont think ive ever seen a car commercial advertising "consumer reports best initial quality" but ive seen countless ones citing JD Power awards...

look...noone is saying that every toyota ever built is going to fallapart the minute you touch it... we are simply saying that toyota... as it grows... is finding it more and more difficult to keep up the outstanding quality they were able to produce when they were a much smaller company... its reality...it happens... toyota is slipping in quality...thats what we are saying... not that it is awful or the worst ever... just that it is slipping... they arent perfect... they have problems too... they are just able to cover them up better

[Farkas]

I'll be honest. I like most cars brands. Even some Toyota's. . They all bring something different to the marketplace and more options = good for the consumer.

No brand is perfect though. And most, if not all, the people here know that.

You, ServiceAdvisor, need to remember where you are. This is a GENERAL MOTORS FAN SITE

OMFG SERIASSSSLY? NO WAI!

Please post with more respect, because trying to read up on a Camry glitch (however oxymoronish you think that is) and seeing all this drivel is no fun. none. at all.

Edited October 23, 2006 by Farkas

[Regalguy01]

So, why do you still own this car?

206842[/snapback]

Cause Its only got 2 more years on it and I want an Enclave!. Thats really been the only big issue with the car. My wife wanted to have something with a little more 'status' then my 01' regal and her ol' 97' altima so the ES appeased her. Father-in-law buys and sells used cars so we got it almost $5k under nada value. .....

[Cory Wolfe]

Wow... We have another troll. Surprise, surprise. Is he banned yet?

[ServiceAdvisor]

This is a site you start to become real familiar with in the future.

http://www.gmproblems.com/media.htm

[aaaantoine]

That page is 7 separate news articles related to engine noise... the same SINGLE problem.

I don't buy trucks. I could care less. Nice try, though. Next criticism please.

[ServiceAdvisor]

That page is 7 separate news articles related to engine noise... the same SINGLE problem.

I don't buy trucks. I could care less.  Nice try, though. Next criticism please.

207688[/snapback]

Maybe you should actually try reading. If that's all you see then maybe you should take the blinders off! lol

Here's another one for you;http://finance.yahoo.com/columnist/article/richricher/4353

[Drew Dowdell]

This is a site you start to become real familiar with in the future.

http://www.gmproblems.com/media.htm

207684[/snapback]

You, I'm sure, realize that if that is the extent of GM's issues, it makes GM look like the paragon of reliability compared to Toyota.

In addition, with the exception of the Equinox, nearly all of those problems are for discontinued or nearly discontinued models/platforms.

I do want to address an issues from that site though as there is a bit of misrepresentation.

1. Equinox grinding sound while turning: The site indicates that this is a problem with the strut and multiple replacements of the strut. The problem isn't really the strut it is premature wear of the CV joint. Still a problem, yes, but one that if addressed properly the first time is resolved. This is more an issue of tech training than poor strut design.

[Flybrian]

Maybe you should actually try reading. If that's all you see then maybe you should take the blinders off! lol

Here's another one for you;http://finance.yahoo.com/columnist/article/richricher/4353

207691[/snapback]

OMGLOL Engine problems Toyota refuses to fix!

Engine Problems - Consumer Affairs

AWWWWSNAP Prius literally shuts down for no reason!

Prius hybrids dogged by software - CNNMoney.com

ROTLMFAOWPMP 2007 Camry transmission st-st-st-stutters and looses gearing!

2007 Toyota Camry -- Troubling Transmission Tales - Edmunds.com

OH SHIZZLE An entire site dedicated to helping owners find help for their busted Toyota products!

Tundra Solutions

What's my point here? Its that everyone has their problems and dismissing Toyota's current problems and growth issues by saying, "Well, GM is worse!" doesn't fix Avalons with broken steering arms, Priuses that scram themselves on the highway, and Camrys that roll back their transmissions to 1986.

[aaaantoine]

Maybe you should actually try reading. If that's all you see then maybe you should take the blinders off! lol

Here's another one for you;http://finance.yahoo.com/columnist/article/richricher/4353

207691[/snapback]

If you wanted us to see the whole site, you could have linked to the home page for the site instead of their "Media" section which is - as I said above - seven links relating to the piston slap issue, which is old news -- I mean, OLD news. At least one of those articles is dated 2003.

And what's your point for coming here? Are you trying to make converts out of us?

"Look, GM cars have problems, buy a Toyota!"

Oh, you're SO right. I should, like, totally dump my Cobalt and go and pick up a Corolla. Woo. Exciting.

"Get the tC, that's exciting."

So exciting that glass will come raining down on me if I hit a pothole? I think I'll stick with the Cobalt. Thanks.

[mustang84]

The Toyota brand lineup is probably one of the most banal lineups are the marketplace. Hell, even Hyundai has a sporty car. The Corolla makes a neck-snapping 128 hp...and that's the only engine option. The Camry manages 268, but how many V6 Camrys are actually sold? No more Supra, no more Celica, no more MR2. Even the Toyota fans are complaining at the lack of excitement in the lineup. Is it any wonder that the average age of the Camry buyer is now 56 years old (Avalon = 61), while both Fusion and Accord owners are ten years younger? I guess Toyota is trying to be the new Buick?

[quantum110]

So has anyone had a chance to be blinded by the Camry's new 1 Billion candle power LED brake lights? I got stuck behind some guy the other night that felt it necessary to keep tapping his brake for 10 blocks. I thought I was going to go blind...

Edited October 23, 2006 by quantum110

[Cortazzo]

But it's true. That's what Toyota told us and they never lie.     

206600[/snapback]

But don't you know that you are a certified genius if you buy a Toyota? Toyota is very clear about that fact.

After driving an automatic for my driving life to now having a stick shift car, I don't think I could go back. Even on faster cars (that I have driven) like my dad's A6, it feels sluggish off the line. The GS300 he had before that felt even more sluggish off the line, it would take a full second or two for the trans to downshift and give you forward motion. Let me slip that clutch and take off, thank you very much!

[FAPTurbo]

My experience has shown that most people who complain about shoddy, American reliability have never even owned an American car.

My family has owned vehicles from Europe, and owns a Japanese make (Toyota Sienna) and none of those vehicles has lasted as long as the American products.

Our '00 Sienna has already been pulled back to the dealer a bunch of times for stuff relating to the transmission, fuel injection, etc.

Last Japanese car we're going to buy.

[The O.C.]

And I can't see why we can't just ban single-minded fools like ServiceAdvisor. When a member's sole purpose is to troll a site, post spam, take away from the overall conversation at place, and act as if they are the Alpha and the Omega, the only correct person to be born, they deserve to be banned.

I volunteer to do the job. And I'll start with SA.

207388[/snapback]

First of all, he has just as much right to post on this site as anyone else....

Second of all, you guys are not doing yourselves any favors by responding to his posts...!

If you don't like his comments, IGNORE THEM and DON'T respond to them!

[prinzSD]

So, why do you still own this car?

206842[/snapback]

Same reason my wife LIKES her Toyota (oh excuse me, Lexus) and I can't stand that boring drive and I hop into my "rattle bucket white trash Trans Am". I would rather put up up with a few quirks in my car then drive an appliance.

[Intrepidation]

OMGLOL Engine problems Toyota refuses to fix!

Engine Problems - Consumer Affairs

AWWWWSNAP Prius literally shuts down for no reason!

Prius hybrids dogged by software - CNNMoney.com

ROTLMFAOWPMP 2007 Camry transmission st-st-st-stutters and looses gearing!

2007 Toyota Camry -- Troubling Transmission Tales - Edmunds.com

OH SHIZZLE An entire site dedicated to helping owners find help for their busted Toyota products!

Tundra Solutions

What's my point here? Its that everyone has their problems and dismissing Toyota's current problems and growth issues by saying, "Well, GM is worse!" doesn't fix Avalons with broken steering arms, Priuses that scram themselves on the highway, and Camrys that roll back their transmissions to 1986.

207695[/snapback]

Oh Fly, you make me laugh so.

Anyone who buys a Toyota and thinks it'll be trouble free is poorly misguided. EVERY car has problems. Toyotas, GMs, Dodges, Nissans...any car from any compay will have problems at some point in it's life. For example, I can tell you from experience, that while Corollas/Prizms are good cars...they have problems, as I've mentioned before. I rode in a mid-`90's Camry once...it's rear suspension sounded like it was going to fall out of the back of the car or collapse over every bump...at any speed...it made me relieved to be back in my "inferior" Shadow.

[ServiceAdvisor]

The Toyota brand lineup is probably one of the most banal lineups are the marketplace.  Hell, even Hyundai has a sporty car.  The Corolla makes a neck-snapping 128 hp...and that's the only engine option.  The Camry manages 268, but how many V6 Camrys are actually sold?  No more Supra, no more Celica, no more MR2.  Even the Toyota fans are complaining at the lack of excitement in the lineup.  Is it any wonder that the average age of the Camry buyer is now 56 years old (Avalon = 61), while both Fusion and Accord owners are ten years younger?  I guess Toyota is trying to be the new Buick?

207708[/snapback]

First of all the that is not the only engine option on the Corolla. There is the XRS model with the 6 speed manual and 185hp (Celica motor) and at the 8,000 rpm redline it will snap you back in the seat. The Supra will be back in 2008 with a 5 liter 450 horsepower optional motor. Every new Camry that hit's the ground is already sold and at least half of them are V6's, most with the ground effects package. We sell probably 70-90 new Toyota's every month out of 180 cars and trucks. The Accord is a great dependable car, used to have one myself. Never said anything about Honda that was bad. The Fusion was supposed to be Ford's saving grace and that is obviously not working. Very sharp car on the outside, but the interior just looks cheap made, that is where Ford falls off.

Yes I have owned "American" made cars, and they have never measured up even before I owned my first Toyota. If GM would cut down to about 3 or 4 brands and vest their money into just those 3 or 4 with better quality and less overpaid manpower, they will pull out of this in time. If they continue to try to finance all 8 or 9 brands they won't make it and the shareholder's will allow Kerkorian to take over. Got the little bit of money they are making spread out too far and too thin.

[Drew Dowdell]

First of all the that is not the only engine option on the Corolla. There is the XRS model with the 6 speed manual and 185hp (Celica motor) and at the 8,000 rpm redline it will snap you back in the seat. The Supra will be back in 2008 with a 5 liter 450 horsepower optional motor. Every new Camry that hit's the ground is already sold and at least half of them are V6's, most with the ground effects package. We sell probably 70-90 new Toyota's every month out of 180 cars and trucks. The Accord is a great dependable car, used to have one myself. Never said anything about Honda that was bad. The Fusion was supposed to be Ford's saving grace and that is obviously not working. Very sharp car on the outside, but the interior just looks cheap made, that is where Ford falls off.

Yes I have owned "American" made cars, and they have never measured up even before I owned my first Toyota. If GM would cut down to about 3 or 4 brands and vest their money into just those 3 or 4 with better quality and less overpaid manpower, they will pull out of this in time. If they continue to try to finance all 8 or 9 brands they won't make it and the shareholder's will allow Kerkorian to take over. Got the little bit of money they are making spread out too far and too thin.

207859[/snapback]

Are you just the new voice of Buickman?

[mustang84]

First of all the that is not the only engine option on the Corolla. There is the XRS model with the 6 speed manual and 185hp (Celica motor) and at the 8,000 rpm redline it will snap you back in the seat. The Supra will be back in 2008 with a 5 liter 450 horsepower optional motor. Every new Camry that hit's the ground is already sold and at least half of them are V6's, most with the ground effects package. We sell probably 70-90 new Toyota's every month out of 180 cars and trucks. The Accord is a great dependable car, used to have one myself. Never said anything about Honda that was bad. The Fusion was supposed to be Ford's saving grace and that is obviously not working. Very sharp car on the outside, but the interior just looks cheap made, that is where Ford falls off.

Yes I have owned "American" made cars, and they have never measured up even before I owned my first Toyota. If GM would cut down to about 3 or 4 brands and vest their money into just those 3 or 4 with better quality and less overpaid manpower, they will pull out of this in time. If they continue to try to finance all 8 or 9 brands they won't make it and the shareholder's will allow Kerkorian to take over. Got the little bit of money they are making spread out too far and too thin.

207859[/snapback]

www.toyota.com. Celica options: CE, S, LE. Specifications: 1.8L DOHC I4, 128 hp. No XRS. You sell Toyotas you say...didn't you know that the XRS is out of production?

The Supra coming back is all one big rumor. I follow the posts over at a Toyota board and people in the know there say that's it's just a rumor right now...there is no actual proof it is coming back.

Key word in that is "looks" (referring to Fusion's interior) and looks are subjective. Everyone I have talked to who has sat in it, and pretty much all articles I have read have stated that interior materials are of high quality and it's a solid car with no rattles. There was a long term test recently that said it has held up extremely well.

Key phrase is "have owned"...you sound like you haven't been in a new American car in years by the way you talk about them. I suggest test driving a new model like a Fusion, Aura, etc before you judge all American automobiles based on your past experiences.

Edit: I did some more checking...the Corolla's engine never made 185 hp...170 hp was what the 2005 model got, and after the SAE standards were revised in '06, it dropped to 164 hp.

And checking out the torque, it only made a measly 127 ft lbs...that's pretty sad. No wonder it had to rev to 8000 rpms to get any power out of it.

Edited October 24, 2006 by mustang84

[DetroitNut90]

The Camries you sell might be predominantly SE V6 models...but the bulk of the ones I see are white/tan LE 4-cylinders, maybe a red one thrown in for some flavor.