JUST RETURNED FROM GM CANADA DEALER ONLY CAR SHOW

[pow]

Great news. A Cobalt hybrid would be excellent.

[jbartley]

• The clay model STS we were shown is not a brand new vehicle....but an EXTENSIVELY reworked STS for 2008. 

• We were also shown the H3 SUT, very cool.

204593[/snapback]

HOORAAAAAY!

"extensively" reworked STS is fantastic! So is an H3 SUT!

[Mr. MacPhisto]

Lutz certainly wasn't lying about GM having a lot to show off at the auto shows. Even what they presented to the dealers is apparently only the tip of the ice berg.

We'll see the new Malibu, the heavily reworked STS, the all new CTS, the production Enclave, and the LaCrosse Super.

We'll also likely see the "concept" RWD Impala, the next GTO, the next Grand Prix (ie the new Commodore from Holden although I think the sheet metal might change a bit on this one because it is supposedly going to be manufactured here), the next Astra (made for both Opel and Saturn), and likely a few more surprises thrown in (think a new lineup of engines that will blow your mind).

[zete]

Sorry it took me so long to reply, I had to travel home from Toronto today.  So I talked to my GM rep to clear a few things up: 

• The clay model STS we were shown is not a brand new vehicle....but an EXTENSIVELY reworked STS for 2008. 

:

• To address the questions about Acadia and Enclave size, they are quite big.  Much bigger than portrayed by pictures. 

:

• Another point from the meeting....8 Hybrid models by 2009....including the Cobalt in 2008!

:

I hope the STS is stretched or something. The new CTS looks to be as big as the current STS -- at least inside, where it counts. The current STS/CTS aren't that far apart on interior room.

As I've not seen the Acadia/Enclave, how big are they compared to the Tahoe or the SRX?

Hybrids. Great for the PR. Should shut a lot of people up. I wonder if the Cobalt will be mild or full dual mode? I wonder if the Lambdas are in that bin of 8 hybrids.

[jbartley]

I hope the STS is stretched or something. The new CTS looks to be as big as the current STS -- at least inside, where it counts. The current STS/CTS aren't that far apart on interior room.

204630[/snapback]

And that wouldn't be that "hard" to do.

make the STS an 1-2 inches longer, reworked inside and outside, and bamn a top seller.

the platform and driving dynamics are already awesome, it's just what the driver has to look at...

[carstar]

The equinox SS and Torrent GXP isn't going to solve all the hp problem the base engine kinda suck.

[ZL-1]

• The clay model STS we were shown is not a brand new vehicle....but an EXTENSIVELY reworked STS for 2008.

204593[/snapback]

The black STS I remeber seeing on AH-HA's site just had Euro lights and a different grille, as did the white car on thecarconnection.com, so forgive me for insisting, but are you saying the extensively reworked STS you saw is a very different thing from these pictures?

[dado]

The black STS I remeber seeing on AH-HA's site just had Euro lights and a different grille, as did the white car on thecarconnection.com, so forgive me for insisting, but are you saying the extensively reworked STS you saw is a very different thing from these pictures?

204708[/snapback]

if it's a clay model doesn't that means that working model of that car hasn't been built yet? why would thay show them clay model if they could show them real working model?. just my 2 cents

[C.H.U.D.]

The STS-L should become the standard wheelbase. Hopefully they at least redesign the front, rear, and interior. Kinda like the DTS redo, only three years sooner, and much bolder.

[ZL-1]

if it's a clay model doesn't that means that working model of that car  hasn't been built yet? why would thay show them clay model if they could show them real working model?. just my 2 cents

204712[/snapback]

Heavy testing 24/7 and not wanting dealers to see a preproduction car (which usually has little attention to detail in terms of assembly quality) are two reasons that cross my mind.

EDIT: I'm thinking the car he saw is probably much more than just a new grille job, but I'd like him to confirm that.

Edited October 14, 2006 by ZL-1

[nightwave]

Just my guess, but could the cars being photographed be powertrain mules? Or, could they be "electronics mules," cars built to test new nav/traction control/powertrain software?

[Drew Dowdell]

The equinox SS and Torrent GXP isn't going to solve all the hp problem the base engine kinda suck.

204688[/snapback]

except they don't. They're fine as base engines. They fuel efficent, and by virtue of being V6es rather than I4s they're smoother than the competition's base engines.

I drove an Equinox a few weeks ago, I didn't find anything wrong with the engine, it was perfectly competent.

[chevycanada]

hmmm i must have slept thru the part of the meeting announcing a cobalt hybrid. all they announced was a malibu hybrid in 08 and tahoe/yukon hybrid.

[GMman]

Is the '08 Malibu going to be built on a new platform? If so, what is it???

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

NAIAS would be an awesome road trip-I don'rt see it this year but anything's possible. I'm really excited for all these vehicles-they show a lot of promise, and hopefully, like the Saturn Aura, they will live up to it in person. Just make sure the pricing is right, passenger/cargo room, features, fuel economy and power are up!

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

The new Malibu 4-door notchback sedan (the versatile Maxx will unfortunately be discontinued) is still on Epsilon I, but now on the long (112.3") wheelbase as the similar Saturn Aura and Pontiac G6.

[CadillacCTS]

hmmm i must have slept thru the part of the meeting announcing a cobalt hybrid.  all they announced was a malibu hybrid in 08 and tahoe/yukon hybrid.

204756[/snapback]

I was positive they said a Cobalt Hybrid for 2008...Maybe I was sleeping ? I caught the Malibu hybrid and the GMT-900 hybrids, and I was told that they are planning 8 hybrids by 2009. Did you hear something else? And would you care to answer some questions about the STS, as I didn't get a great glimpse of the car.

Edited October 14, 2006 by CadillacCTS

[turbo200]

I know the new STS revisions have piqued the interest of most here. The question is why would they show a clay model, and specifically what does it's for 2008 mean? and more specifically, since it was shown to you does that mean we will get to see it at the auto show season this year. and finally, is this all a hoax that we are really going to have to wait until late 2008 for it finally to be in production? not that i don't beleive your word, but GM has a way of letting me down.

[jbartley]

Just my guess, but could the cars being photographed be powertrain mules?  Or, could they be "electronics mules," cars built to test new nav/traction control/powertrain software?

204741[/snapback]

That explanation would make sense.

Besides, the "mules" we've seen picture of are euro/chinese cars anyways. And we know how different chinese and american lacrosses are...

(we've seen how clever GM is getting at testing disguised stuff, so maybe the 08 STS is heavily reworked, but they don't want us to see just yet...)

[nzr]

CadillacCTS, was there a release date on the G6 GXP?

[razoredge]

I bet they didnt let anyone sit inside. An Epilson no matter how many times you bake it is still an Epilson. Glad to see GM dealers are excited, now the only question that remains - "can they sell the things?"

[CSpec]

Did you see the refreshed 2008 Cobalt?

[CadillacCTS]

CadillacCTS, was there a release date on the G6 GXP?

204795[/snapback]

Did you see the refreshed 2008 Cobalt?

204814[/snapback]

Not sure if they told us the release date from the GXP G6, if they did I wasnt paying attention.

No, the refreshed Cobalt was not there, and I was quite disappointed. I was also hoping the refreshed 2008 Colorado and Canyon would be there.

[chevycanada]

I was positive they said a Cobalt Hybrid for 2008...Maybe I was sleeping ?  I caught the Malibu hybrid and the GMT-900 hybrids, and I was told that they are planning 8 hybrids by 2009.  Did you hear something else?  And would you care to answer some questions about the STS, as I didn't get a great glimpse of the car.

204763[/snapback]

i wasnt in the caddy portion of the meeting so didnt see anything on the sts..i know they talked about all our active fuel management, and the hydrogen stuff, as well as all our E85 vehicles. but I don't recall them specifically mentioning a cobalt hybrid. I am not sure if they gave a solid number of hybrids by 09 or not. i didn't think they did.

[Imaj]

• The clay model STS we were shown is not a brand new vehicle....but an EXTENSIVELY reworked STS for 2008. 

204593[/snapback]

Did the STS look like this? Or was it, hopefully, different.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/spyphotos.cfm/...ac-sts-facelift

• Another point from the meeting....8 Hybrid models by 2009....including the Cobalt in 2008!

Will there be any diesel hybrids?

[dado]

i wasnt in the caddy portion of the meeting so didnt see anything on the sts..i know they talked about all our active fuel management, and the hydrogen stuff, as well as all our E85 vehicles. but I don't recall them specifically mentioning a cobalt hybrid.  I am not sure if they gave a solid number of hybrids by 09 or not.  i didn't think they did.

204915[/snapback]

Was there any talk of new engines maybe v8 or v6 with DI..or maybe new diesel engine. So how does new CTS look in person..Is there any chance that new malibu is going to be sold in Europe?

[mjd1001]

This is all interesting information.

For me the vehicles listed that we'd most likely be buying would be an Equinox SS or a G6 GXP.

The G6 GXP though...it would have to be seriously toned down from the concept version (the one pictures at left lane news) for us to consider it. The styling is so overdone it looks like a high school kid went crazy with cheap aftermarket parts.

Of course my main question that wasn't answered yet was the engine. Is the 275hp in the Equinox SS the final engine? Or could a direct injection version be offered by it's release (wondering of the next gen Redline Vue will get the 275 hp also?).

As for the GXP G6, will it be the same engine as in the GTP coupe but just with different styling? Will it be direct injection? In 2008 can we still buy the GTP version if we don't like the 'overdone' gxp version, or once the GXP is here will the GTP be gone like it was with the Grand Prix? Does 2008 bring an update to the G6 interior?

Finally, and most imporantly....I am waiting to see if there is any chance the 2008 G6 convertible will get a 6 speed auto and 3.6 liter engine. If the vert gets that....then that is the vehilce we get over an Equinox, Rav4, Mini, G6 coupe, and any other.

[joe_cool]

Being a chevrolet salesman I wish they wouldstop cannibalizing the SS marquee. EquinoxSS ? Whats next Aveo SS?!? If they want a performance equinox thats cool, but call it something else! Equinox V6r, or something. Give us a real SS silverado that can compete against the likes of the lightning and the Ram SRT10. Keep SS on real performance Vehicles, not small suv's with a little more HP and a body kit!

[rueben44]

Really there is nothing wrong with it as long as the do it right. Audi does it, Opel, Benz, BMW and everyone else so why can't Chevy? The key is them making the car different and more entertaining.

Edited October 15, 2006 by rueben44

[Intrepidation]

So if the Malibu is still on Epsilon when is Epsilon II coming out and on what car?

[loki]

So  if the Malibu is still on Epsilon when is Epsilon II coming out and on what car?

205154[/snapback]

i thought it's been thoughroly(?) discussed and most likely MY '10 or CY '10

[jjsocrazy]

Hi, CadillacCTS

Just wondering on the Cadillac stuff.

The extensivly worked STS is about a 60% change would you say. Also what was different if you remember.

The CTS, was there a definete release date b/c I have heard early 07. Also anything particular you noticed on the CTS (Rims, side vents, spoiler, led lights, chrome/black chrome, etc.)

Thank You!

[bowtie_dude]

So  if the Malibu is still on Epsilon when is Epsilon II coming out and on what car?

205154[/snapback]

I'm pretty sure its been said that the MY 2010 Aura will be on EpII and will be the first one on it. The 2011 Malibu will follow up

[Northstar]

I'm pretty sure its been said that the MY 2010 Aura will be on EpII and will be the first one on it.  The 2011 Malibu will follow up

205413[/snapback]

The Vectra is the first EPII, but the first one in the US will be the LaCrosse.

[Chicagoland]

I'm glad they are keeping Malibu name, it is from the 'classic' era. And too many name changes. Cavalier needed to go, but not Malibu or Impala.

Also, sure the auto rags will find some tiny little thing in the interior and say 'not better than a Camry or Accord'. But, who really cares?

[Drew Dowdell]

I'm glad they are keeping Malibu name, it is from the 'classic' era. And too many name changes. Cavalier needed to go, but not Malibu or Impala.

Also, sure the auto rags will find some tiny little thing in the interior and say 'not better than a Camry or Accord'. But, who really cares?

205448[/snapback]

The steering wheel will be too thick, or too great in diameter, or have a 4-spokes instead of the car-rag demanded 3 <while ignoring the 4-spokes on the CamCord>, or the cruise will be on the turn signal stalk, or the plastic material under the seats that covers the seat track ends will be "low rent", or the styling will be "derivative or uninspired" while ignoring the buck tooth on the Accord and the monkey nose on the camry, or they'll compair a base model Malibu with an Ecotec to a Camry SE V6 "because that's all Toyota had available for testing", or.....

[MyerShift]

Can't wait! GM's future products shall be world class and dominating!

If only my company would do the same...

[enzl]

The steering wheel will be too thick, or too great in diameter, or have a 4-spokes instead of the car-rag demanded 3 <while ignoring the 4-spokes on the CamCord>, or the cruise will be on the turn signal stalk, or the plastic material under the seats that covers the seat track ends will be "low rent", or the styling will be "derivative or uninspired" while ignoring the buck tooth on the Accord and the monkey nose on the camry, or they'll compair a base model Malibu with an Ecotec to a Camry SE V6 "because that's all Toyota had available for testing", or.....

205450[/snapback]

If you really think that the above nit-picking is the reason that the Big 2.5 are losing ground, then you just haven't been paying attention very well.

For the record, a slew of old-tech engines, 4 speed trannies and yesterdays chassis' have doomed much domestic product from the get-go.

The detail you lampoon above only provides further fodder for enthusiast magazines.

Now, if you want to say that Toyota's current product is trending in a downward trajectory or that Nissan can't put together a really decent interior, I'd be inclined to agree with you.

The first step in solving a problem is recognizing you have one. I believe that GM has owned up to that failing....Mr. Lutz has specifically targeted interior quality and modern engine/tranny arrangements as areas for improvement. You gonna disagree with him too?

The magazines only reflect the residual public disdain created by GM when they exibited a similar disdain for the wants/needs of their buying public. It'll change when GM and the others prove they've changed.

[Robert Hall]

If you really think that the above nit-picking is the reason that the Big 2.5 are losing ground, then you just haven't been paying attention very well.

For the record, a slew of old-tech engines, 4 speed trannies and yesterdays chassis' have doomed much domestic product from the get-go.

Hopefully the new Malibu will have the 3.6 and a 6-speed standard for V6 models...leave the old stuff behind.

Edited October 16, 2006 by moltar

[pow]

If you really think that the above nit-picking is the reason that the Big 2.5 are losing ground, then you just haven't been paying attention very well.

For the record, a slew of old-tech engines, 4 speed trannies and yesterdays chassis' have doomed much domestic product from the get-go.

The detail you lampoon above only provides further fodder for enthusiast magazines.

Now, if you want to say that Toyota's current product is trending in a downward trajectory or that Nissan can't put together a really decent interior, I'd be inclined to agree with you.

The first step in solving a problem is recognizing you have one. I believe that GM has owned up to that failing....Mr. Lutz has specifically targeted interior quality and modern engine/tranny arrangements as areas for improvement. You gonna disagree with him too?

The magazines only reflect the residual public disdain created by GM when they exibited a similar disdain for the wants/needs of their buying public. It'll change when GM and the others prove they've changed.

205521[/snapback]

Finally someone who gets it.

[Drew Dowdell]

If you really think that the above nit-picking is the reason that the Big 2.5 are losing ground, then you just haven't been paying attention very well.

For the record, a slew of old-tech engines, 4 speed trannies and yesterdays chassis' have doomed much domestic product from the get-go.

The detail you lampoon above only provides further fodder for enthusiast magazines.

Now, if you want to say that Toyota's current product is trending in a downward trajectory or that Nissan can't put together a really decent interior, I'd be inclined to agree with you.

The first step in solving a problem is recognizing you have one. I believe that GM has owned up to that failing....Mr. Lutz has specifically targeted interior quality and modern engine/tranny arrangements as areas for improvement. You gonna disagree with him too?

The magazines only reflect the residual public disdain created by GM when they exibited a similar disdain for the wants/needs of their buying public. It'll change when GM and the others prove they've changed.

205521[/snapback]

DOHC does not automatically make an engine great and pushrods do not automatically make an engine suck. Examples? Ford 3.0 litre DOHC, just about any mitsubishi sourced Chrysler V6, S/C 3800 <you'll poo poo this, but it's performance numbers are *still* on par with the "modern" V6s>.

I have in fact seen "Steering wheel too thick" and "Cruise on the stalk" in the 'Lows' column for GM cars. I want to know how either of those are quality issues. I want to know why parts of the dash that you never touch unless cleaning have to be Serta soft to be considered high quality.

The 4-speed, 5-speed, 6-speed is mostly a penis waving contest. In most applications, you'd never notice the difference. I have a both a 4-speed and 5speed and they both work equally fine.

The one I love most is the 3-spoke steering wheel "being sportier" and gaining a car points with the car-rags.

[Robert Hall]

DOHC does not automatically make an engine great and pushrods do not automatically make an engine suck.  Examples? Ford 3.0 litre DOHC, just about any mitsubishi sourced Chrysler V6, S/C 3800 <you'll poo poo this, but it's performance numbers are *still* on par with the "modern" V6s>.

The 4-speed, 5-speed, 6-speed is mostly a penis waving contest. In most applications, you'd never notice the difference. I have a both a 4-speed and 5speed and they both work equally fine.

205548[/snapback]

Regardless of which is better technically, a midsize FWD model with an OHV V6 and 4spd auto is going to be viewed as subpar by most potential car buyers in 2006.... look at the specs of the competition..it's not 1996. GM can't afford to keep building average or below average cars..they need to build best of class cars...you can't do that with outdated powertrains..

Edited October 16, 2006 by moltar

[Northstar]

The 4-speed, 5-speed, 6-speed is mostly a penis waving contest. In most applications, you'd never notice the difference. I have a both a 4-speed and 5speed and they both work equally fine.

205548[/snapback]

I don't think that's really the case. A 5th gear would do wonders for the GTO.

[bowtie_dude]

The Vectra is the first EPII, but the first one in the US will be the LaCrosse.

205435[/snapback]

D'oh! Forgot about the Lacrosse. Is it MY09?

[bowtie_dude]

(1)DOHC does not automatically make an engine great and pushrods do not automatically make an engine suck.  Examples? Ford 3.0 litre DOHC, just about any mitsubishi sourced Chrysler V6, S/C 3800 <you'll poo poo this, but it's performance numbers are *still* on par with the "modern" V6s>.

(2)I have in fact seen "Steering wheel too thick" and "Cruise on the stalk" in the 'Lows' column for GM cars.  I want to know how either of those are quality issues.  (3) I want to know why parts of the dash that you never touch unless cleaning have to be Serta soft to be considered high quality.

(4) The 4-speed, 5-speed, 6-speed is mostly a penis waving contest. In most applications, you'd never notice the difference. I have a both a 4-speed and 5speed and they both work equally fine.

(5) The one I love most is the 3-spoke steering wheel "being sportier" and gaining a car points with the car-rags.

205548[/snapback]

(1) Ford and Chrysler are definitely NOT at the forefront of powertrain technology, so their engines are a moot point. Bottom line, in anything less than 8 cylinders, pushrod's just don't cut it. Not on power or refinement.

(2) I actually agree on that, its a matter of preference and what you're use to.

(3) Because the competition does it. GM needs to be better than the competition, and material quality, even in rarely touched areas, is one of the things that Toyota and Honda continue to best GM in.

(4) 5-spds have increased fuel economy over 4-spds. The Tundra got a 2-3 MPG increase when Toyota put the 5-spd in it.

(5) Same as 2, personal preference. I actually prefer 4-spoke because when I drive I like to hold onto the bottom left spoke.

[Northstar]

D'oh!  Forgot about the Lacrosse.  Is it MY09?

205558[/snapback]

I am unsure if it will be a very late '09 (like Dec. 2008) or a very early '10 (like January 2009). Either way, it should debut sometime between Dec 2008 and Feb 2009.

[Blu Angel]

This is all interesting information.

For me the vehicles listed that we'd most likely be buying would be an Equinox SS or a G6 GXP.

Of course my main question that wasn't answered yet was the engine.  Is the 275hp in the Equinox SS the final engine? Or could a direct injection version be offered by it's release (wondering of the next gen Redline Vue will get the 275 hp also?).

Finally, and most imporantly....I am waiting to see if there is any chance the 2008 G6 convertible will get a 6 speed auto and 3.6 liter engine. If the vert gets that....then that is the vehicle we get over an Equinox, Rav4, Mini, G6 coupe, and any other.

205049[/snapback]

I found you.....I finally found you!!!! You must be my long-lost twin!!

My wife just loves the Equinox/Torrent twins, but I've been holding out for the 3.6 V6 275 Hp motor. My first question is about the release dates? When can we order one of those get-up-and-go motors?

Barring its imminent arrival, when is the G6 Coupe Convertible gonna gen the 3.6/ 6 speed tranny combination? This is the 2nd most coveted GM vehicle in our household.

Please, see if you can find some release dates!

[xdre]

(1) Ford and Chrysler are definitely NOT at the forefront of powertrain technology, so their engines are a moot point.  Bottom line, in anything less than 8 cylinders, pushrod's just don't cut it.  Not on power or refinement.

I'm sorry, but that's just crap. The problem with the V6 pushrods is lack of dev dollars, not the architecture itself.

[Derek77]

Edmunds: 2008 Chevrolet Equinox SS engine shot

Not really new, but while looking around I found the engine cover that know one seems to know what engine it belongs too. I know we already got verbal confirmation, this is the visual.

[carstar]

Did anyone mentioned about the 2008 malibu interior??