GM Death Watch 94

[Guest buickman]

So much for Maximum Bob

From www.thetruthaboutcars.com

GM’s September sales figures are out. Despite generous Labor Day incentives, zero per cent financing to anyone with a pulse and an easy year-on-year comparison (GM was in the post-Fire Sale mode last September), vehicle sales are down seven percent. Given GM’s upcoming production cutbacks, there’s only one way sales can go from here: down, taking GM’s declining market share with it. Never mind. According to GM Exec Maximum Bob Lutz, "Whatever our market share stabilizes at in the US— 22, 23, 24 percent— I don’t really care. The idea that GM… has got to get back to 30 percent is a wacky notion with all this global competition we’ve got."

Obviously, Mr. What Me Worry? is a whack job. The fact that the octogenarian ex-Marine has any power whatsoever within GM– never mind his multi-million dollar annual salary, huge pension and Gulfstream perks– tells you all you need to know about GM’s ability to manage itself. At the risk of stating the obvious, shouldn’t the guy who calls [at least some of] the shots for the world’s largest automaker understand that the faster GM’s domestic market share shrinks, the closer The General gets to the tipping point of no return? Call me a weenie (SIR!), but I’d expect an ex-Marine to know when he’s fighting a rear-guard action.

By the same token, you’d kinda hope that GM’s so-called “car czar” would know that The General’s inability to find new homes for their cash cows is putting his employer in a world of hurt. Pardon me for not being a goldfish, but I distinctly remember Mr. Lutz standing on the running board of a new[ish] Tahoe telling the world that GM’s GMT-900’s would take the [declining] market by storm and save GM’s bacon. Well they haven’t. Yukon, Tahoe and Suburban sales are soft, and getting softer. Surely the opposite of success is failure, and the logical response to failure is to acknowledge the damage and formulate a new plan– rather than obfuscation, prevarication and denial.

Top execs like GM marketing maven Mark LaNeve may be happy spinning the dismal parade of declining numbers– claiming that rental fleet sales and limited production are clouding an otherwise bright picture– but the numbers don’t lie. GM is in a death spiral that no amount of “missing” Chevrolet Aveos, Cobalts and Malibus can cure. GM claims its GMT900 pickups are the next next big thing, but they simply can’t create enough cash flow to sustain The General’s distended, over-extended, lackluster product portfolio.

In fact, Maximum Bob put his finger on the nub of GM’s problem: the company has lost its ability to fight import owned competition. GM’s September sales results are bad enough, but Toyota’s are far worse– for GM. The Japanese automaker’s sales climbed a staggering 25%. And it wasn’t just fuel-sipping econoboxes fueling the company’s financial combustion chamber. Year-on-year sales were up for the Sequoia (37.7%), Land Cruiser (1.7%), 4Runner (8.9%), Highlander (16.1%), RAV4 (93.4%). Bottom line: Toyota’s September SUV sales rose by an average of 54.8%.

The numbers are alarming in extremis. GM's new[ish] GMT900’s have not only failed to sell in absolute terms, they’ve also failed to stem the growing tide of customers abandoning domestic products for import-owned vehicles on their home turf. As for cars… fuhgeddaboutit. “All this global competition” has left The General in a corner, fighting Ford and Chrysler for hard core domestic-buying consumers. Short of Ford going belly-up, without products capable of beating-back Toyota, Honda, Hyundai and the rest of the “newcomers,” the market share stability GM’s Car Czar seeks is impossible to imagine.

Meanwhile, reports are filtering in that GM CEO Rabid Rick Wagoner has finally called off the Nissan - Renault alliance talks. This may have a little something to do with new rules enacted yesterday by GM’s Board of Bystanders. The language is a bit convoluted, but my take is that they make it easier for the Board to remove pro-Renault investor Kirk Kerkorian’s man Jerry York, and prevent Captain Kirk from adding new members. So Rabid Rick’s covered his ass and told Kirk to take a flying leap. As we predicted, things are getting ugly over at RenCen.

The battle for control of GM is just beginning. Kirk is sure to retaliate against GM’s CEO in any way he can, and The Lion of Las Vegas is nothing if not resourceful. Regardless who ends-up the last man grandstanding, the war's already been lost. At an ever increasing rate, GM’s products are falling further and further behind the competition in the only arena that makes any difference: the sales charts. While necessary, GM's severe cuts to its production and staff delay the regrouping needed to create the products needed to recapture lost market share. The “gotta-have” vehicles aren’t forthcoming, but the reckoning is.

[Drew Dowdell]

I, for one, agree with Bob that what is the point of 30% market share if the company is losing money doing it!?

I much rather GM at a profitable 22% market share than an unprofitable 30% market share. I'm sure other stock holders feel the same way.

GM is producing more great cars than they are duds.

There are "gotta have" vehicles here already. The Escalades, the Kappas, the new 'Vette. The current CTS was "gotta have" for me... and I got it. The next CTS looks like it is the same.

The Cobalt is selling so well they're having inventory issues <opposite of the kind Chrysler is having with the 300>.

The Cobalt is making a profit!

[Guest buickman]

They couldn't get to 30% even losing money. So now the goal is 22-23? What next? 20? 18? Each year these nitwits simply lower the bar when they fail to produce. Return to Greatness is the answer. The plan would have them back over 30% within 6 months and making money!

Buickman

the voice

[Drew Dowdell]

They couldn't get to 30% even losing money. So now the goal is 22-23? What next? 20? 18? Each year these nitwits simply lower the bar when they fail to produce. Return to Greatness is the answer. The plan would have them back over 30% within 6 months and making money!

Buickman

the voice

201316[/snapback]

They no longer have the infrastructure in place to support 30% at this point. Delphi couldn't keep up and neither could most of their plants.

Marketshare isn't a measure of company health.

[Guest buickman]

They no longer have the infrastructure in place to support 30% at this point.  Delphi couldn't keep up and neither could most of their plants.

Marketshare isn't a measure of company health.

201318[/snapback]

When you're constantly and consistently losing it, market share (the loss of) is most definitely a sign of health and this company is illin'

the voice...

[Drew Dowdell]

When you're constantly and consistently losing it, market share (the loss of) is most definitely a sign of health and this company is illin'

the voice...

201322[/snapback]

They have to get back to profitability first, then concern themselves with market share. It's not like they're in a free fall, they have kept fairly steady. Market share was actually up for August.

[Mr.Krinkle]

whew, another deathwatch. i thought everything got solved since the last

one. what was that 2 weeks ago.

fact is this is all being micro analayzed to death. sept 06 will not

be the determinng factor and really no reason to get your

panties in a bunch. or the false hope that bm is our shining light. our voice in the wilderness. pandering at best.

Edited October 4, 2006 by Mr.Krinkle

[Northstar]

Ok, let's break down what's wrong with this article:

vehicle sales are down seven percent.

Yes, but GM actually sold more retail units this September. I'd say that's what matters.

"Whatever our market share stabilizes at in the US— 22, 23, 24 percent— I don’t really care. The idea that GM… has got to get back to 30 percent is a wacky notion with all this global competition we’ve got."

I'd rather see GM at 22-24% share with about 80% retail units than 30% share but the same number of retail units. Adding fleet sales only hurts resale for us, GM's customers.

shouldn’t the guy who calls [at least some of] the shots for the world’s largest automaker understand that the faster GM’s domestic market share shrinks, the closer The General gets to the tipping point of no return?

Again, it's all about retail sales, and GM has been improving in this area.

GMT-900’s would take the [declining] market by storm and save GM’s bacon. Well they haven’t. Yukon, Tahoe and Suburban sales are soft, and getting softer.

Actually, Tahoe, Yukon, Yukon XL, Suburban, and Avalanche sales were all up in September, and I think it's fair to say that the only reason last year's numbers were higher is because of the Employee pricing. On, top of that, the Tahoe is only down 3k units vs. last year. Oh, and on top of that, the Escalade is actually up vs. last year, even with Employee pricing. And, last I checked, the segment was down by a large margin this year. I don't know the exact figures, but I'm guessing the segment as a whole is down more % points than GM is, so that means GM would have increased market share, meaning that they are taking back some of the market, granted, not by storm.

Oh, and let's not forget to mention, once again, that the T900s are doing this at MUCH higher transaction prices, which means GM is making TONS of money on them.

GM claims its GMT900 pickups are the next next big thing, but they simply can’t create enough cash flow to sustain The General’s distended, over-extended, lackluster product portfolio.

This may be the biggest line of BS so far. Umm, hello, GM sells close to 1 million pickups per year, and is currently on pace to sell about 4.2 million vehicles this year. If 1/4 of GM's vehicles are highly profitable (and this doesn't include the T900 SUVs, either), then I think that would keep GM at profitable levels.

Oh, and let's not forget the new products coming. How many of them are lackluster?

Year-on-year sales were up for the Sequoia (37.7%), Land Cruiser (1.7%), 4Runner (8.9%), Highlander (16.1%), RAV4 (93.4%). Bottom line: Toyota’s September SUV sales rose by an average of 54.8%.

So they had a good month... how about mentioning that the Sequoia is down 25.7% for the year (looks like the Tahoe is doing much better, no?), Highlander is down 10.3%, Land Cruiser is down 34.1%, 4Runner is up 3.8%, and the RAV4 is the only one that has any real gain, at 104%.

I could give some nice figures for some GM SUVs to make them look brighter than they really are, too:

Avalance up 44.5% for the month, and the GMT900s are doing bad?

H3 up 21.5% for the month, and 120.8% for the year.

Torrent up 127.1% for the month.

I just love how TTAC thinks it can get away with BS like this. The T900s are doing bad, and the only Toyota SUV that is doing better than average for the year is the RAV4.

M's new[ish] GMT900’s have not only failed to sell in absolute terms, they’ve also failed to stem the growing tide of customers abandoning domestic products for import-owned vehicles on their home turf.

I think I already demostrated that anything about the T900s being failures is made up BS.

As for cars… fuhgeddaboutit.

Wow, nice journalism.

Meanwhile, reports are filtering in that GM CEO Rabid Rick Wagoner has finally called off the Nissan - Renault alliance talks. This may have a little something to do with new rules enacted yesterday by GM’s Board of Bystanders. The language is a bit convoluted, but my take is that they make it easier for the Board to remove pro-Renault investor Kirk Kerkorian’s man Jerry York, and prevent Captain Kirk from adding new members. So Rabid Rick’s covered his ass and told Kirk to take a flying leap. As we predicted, things are getting ugly over at RenCen.

The battle for control of GM is just beginning. Kirk is sure to retaliate against GM’s CEO in any way he can, and The Lion of Las Vegas is nothing if not resourceful. Regardless who ends-up the last man grandstanding, the war's already been lost. At an ever increasing rate, GM’s products are falling further and further behind the competition in the only arena that makes any difference: the sales charts. While necessary, GM's severe cuts to its production and staff delay the regrouping needed to create the products needed to recapture lost market share. The “gotta-have” vehicles aren’t forthcoming, but the reckoning is.

Personal opinion with nothing to back it up. And, who says the "gotta-have" vehicles aren't coming? I'd say the Lambdas look damn impressive, the Malibu is supposed to be a knockout, and I'd say the Camaro is as close to "gotta-have" as you can get.

TTAC is a joke, which I guess is why Buickman takes them to be the Automotive Bible.

[Northstar]

When you're constantly and consistently losing it, market share (the loss of) is most definitely a sign of health and this company is illin'

the voice...

201322[/snapback]

Umm, profitability would be a sign of company health. And, GM is returning to profitability.

I'll even give an example to make it easier to understand: Porsche is very profitable, but their market share is basically nothing. This makes them unhealthy how?

[Mr.Krinkle]

it is a lot of bs in a way. as usual the percent arguments are misleading and only

showing a slanted view of what seems to be the actual trends.

huge sales all summer long, too but toyota firesales arent called fire sales, theyre golden opportunity events.

their rebates and incentives are known as consumer apreciation awards. i saw a never ending parade of toyota truck commercials this summer. nice to have a roll.

i wonder if they are truly happy with this months sales.

Edited October 4, 2006 by Mr.Krinkle

[Guest YellowJacket894]

Who in the hell reads these "GM Death Watch" articles, anyway? It's nothing but overcooked, ignorant, stale bull&#036;h&#33;. I'm not going to begin to point out the things wrong with this narcissistic, belligerent drivel.

Seems to me like someone wants to turn GM into one big soap opera or CBS's afternoon line-up.

[Guest buickman]

Returning to profitablility? Stabilizing market share? More semantics from spin artists and blind followers. Start looking at the trees and you'll notice the forest is disappearing.

the voice...

[Drew Dowdell]

Returning to profitablility?

201389[/snapback]

Oh yeah, cause aiming for profitability is some mumbo jumbo preached by Miss Cleo

[razoredge]

GM is one big soap opera, anyone that hangs around C&G has surely seen enough evidence of that.

Final year sales totals will have to do. Im anxious now to know how this year has been going. I for one dont believe it has gone well at all. I nearly agree with this artical. I dont however at this time believe in blaming Lutz, Wagner, or LeNave ( I need to learn how his name is spelled) They could have done better thats for sure but America is the problem, they just arent going to change their car buying outlook, especially when its so well known that "The Big Three" are in trouble. That just a huge red flag right there.

Then if thats not bad enough, the imports trump them on every detail, we have all seen that here.

More gears for the tranny, too late, such and such just produced one that has one more.

Nice new hightec V6.........too late, everybody else just released one that has more HP/more torque/better milage

better interiors...........too late, everybody else just added newer more softie touch plastic down by the toe area

new styling..........too late, its dated now, everybody else has moved on

better warranty...........too late, such and such has always had one that good and better and sells their cars for less

new commercials..........too late, and far to craptastic for any customer to get past the "now selling for less.........." at the end

Im telling you guys, the Asian automachine is on a roll, in deep wet snow, and its growing so fast, nothing is going to stop it..........."in a free market"......."global economy". Money makes money and the Asians have it and the Americans do not. Spin it all you want, talk about 20 % with profit is better than 24 without. Then next year talk about 18% with profit is better than 20 without. Picture that old commercial, I forget what it was for, but it was a city and the streets were empty........thats your local GM dealerships customer parking lot. Now drive past or go to a Toyota dealership and see the action, go to a Hyundia dealership and see the action, go to a Honda dealership and see the action, now go to another GM dealership of you choise and tell me whats going on..............

Its the American attitude, we see it all the time here on this forum. Whether its the crying about items not being as special as _ _ _ _'s. Or who gives a crap about American manufactureing jobs or whatever topic pops up. Just check out the basic American attitude about its manufactures or workforce. We'd rather be politically correct and embrace immigrants, foreign cultures, our own slacker government, our own greedy healthcare system and any other number of problems than embrace our own people, our own culture, our own history, our own manufactureing base and so many other things Americana.

Now just go ahead and tell me Im wrong...........then just sit back with your complacent attitude about the condition of America and watch it all happen..........because you are too selfish and lazy to stand up for your own brothers and sisters and make a change in attitude.

Sound off topic, sound like a tangent? Is it really ? Look at the big picture

[toyoguy]

Actually, Tahoe, Yukon, Yukon XL, Suburban, and Avalanche sales were all up in September, and I think it's fair to say that the only reason last year's numbers were higher is because of the Employee pricing.

201338[/snapback]

GM’s September sales figures are out. Despite generous Labor Day incentives, zero per cent financing to anyone with a pulse and an easy year-on-year comparison (GM was in the post-Fire Sale mode last September), vehicle sales are down seven percent.

As he stated the fire sale was over, GM had a terrible Sept (2005) and Sept 06 showed no improvement, well that's bad news.

September 2005/2004

http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet...n=6&docid=19171

Tahoe

September 2004 - 20,905

September 2005 - 9,151

September 2006 - 10,146

C/K Suburban(Chevy)

September 2004 - 12,987

September 2005 - 5,640

September 2006 - 5,837

Avalanche

September 2004 - 8,147

September 2005 - 4,131

September 2006 - 6,206

Yukon

September 2004 - 9,510

September 2005 - 5,094

September 2006 - 5,451

Yukon XL

September 2004 - 7,338

September 2005 - 3,689

September 2006 - 4,145

Escalade

September 2004 - 3,169

September 2005 - 2,449

September 2006 - 2,985

Escalade ESV

September 2004 - 1,521

September 2005 - 920

September 2006 - 1,892

Escalade EXT

September 2004 - 734

September 2005 - 495

September 2006 - 851

outside the Escalade (competing w/the old Navigator) the GMT-900's aren't all that hot. And I distinctly remember that jackass Lutz saying we are selling every GMT900 we can build, obviously we aren't.

Fargo is right on the money, the managment at GM which worked in the old days is completely wrong in today's enviroment.

It's time Lutz and GM's managment are held responsible for GM's failings, and I mean they need to be fired.

Edited October 4, 2006 by toyoguy

[Cadillacfan]

Would you prefer lutz say: "These SUVs are good but they're not doing very well because of the shift in the demand.. so let's not get our hopes up. In fact, just ignore these SUVs altogether."

[jry]

whew, another deathwatch.  i thought everything got solved since the last

one.  what was that 2 weeks ago.

fact is this is all being micro analayzed to death.  sept 06 will not

be the determinng factor and really no reason to get your

panties in a bunch.  or the false hope that bm is our shining light.  our voice in the wilderness.  pandering at best.

201336[/snapback]

here, here.

you'd think with all of buicks hand wringing (must have too much time on his hands) he'd find a roof to jump off of or a gun to put to his head. this guy wants GM to fail so bad. what, just so he can bask in the glory of an "i told you so".

its like all of the goofballs that ran GM out of flint and then said, from the unemployment line, "guess we showed them".

[VenSeattle]

Fargo is right on the money, the managment at GM which worked in the old days is completely wrong in today's enviroment.

It's time Lutz and GM's managment are held responsible for GM's failings, and I mean they need to be fired.

201419[/snapback]

Septemeber 2004 Sales hit industry records that had never been achieved before... Last year's sales were down due to Employee Pricing and the Pull-Ahead sales. Every vehicle listed shows an improvement from 2005.

From GM's 10/1/04 release.

GM Truck Sales

GM's truck lineup posted industry-record September sales. Full-size pickups and sport utility vehicles both set industry sales records. Full-size pickup deliveries (108,742) posted a 42 percent gain, led by record Chevrolet full-size pickup sales, up 41 percent, and record GMC Sierra sales, up 47 percent. This is the eighth consecutive month that GM full-size pickups led the industry. Deliveries of medium pickups were up 33 percent (16,022), as Chevrolet Colorado and GMC Canyon continued to build sales strength.

GM again set a new industry benchmark for utility vehicle sales. SUV sales (134,819) improved 35 percent compared to year-ago levels, surpassing the 100,000-unit sales mark for the sixth month this year. Third-quarter utility sales gained 12 percent (382,076), also setting another record.

September deliveries of medium utilities (54,212) improved 41 percent, led by record Chevrolet TrailBlazer sales, up 57 percent (28,175) and record GMC Envoy sales, up 62 percent (14,792). Medium utility sales increased 12 percent in the third quarter (160,954), setting an industry record.

Small utilities continued to gain sales strength in September, with 19,456 deliveries, a 109 percent increase compared to last year. Chevrolet Equinox had its best sales month since launch with 12,126 deliveries, a 41 percent improvement over August. Small utility sales were up 66 percent in the third quarter (52,542).

How many attempts at a failed Tundra will make you call for a Toyota VP's head?

[Northstar]

GM’s September sales figures are out. Despite generous Labor Day incentives, zero per cent financing to anyone with a pulse and an easy year-on-year comparison (GM was in the post-Fire Sale mode last September), vehicle sales are down seven percent.

As he stated the fire sale was over, GM had a terrible Sept (2005) and Sept 06 showed no improvement, well that's bad news.

outside the Escalade (competing w/the old Navigator) the GMT-900's aren't all that hot. And I distinctly remember that jackass Lutz saying we are selling every GMT900 we can build, obviously we aren't.

Fargo is right on the money, the managment at GM which worked in the old days is completely wrong in today's enviroment.

It's time Lutz and GM's managment are held responsible for GM's failings, and I mean they need to be fired.

201419[/snapback]

Did you take into account that GM was in "fire-sale" mode in Sept 2004? I remember you could get $10k+ off of Tahoes and Suburbans back then (we looked at a $49k Tahoe in late Aug 04 that the dealer was advertising for $39k), and you can't do that now. If you could get $10k off a 2007 Tahoe, I don't think there'd be many left on the lots at the end of the month.

Compared to the industry, the T900s are doing very well.

The Escalade doesn't only have competition from the Navigator... The LX/GX, new GL-Class, and Range Rover still compete against it.

[tama z71]

GM is one big soap opera, anyone that hangs around C&G has surely seen enough evidence of that.

Final year sales totals will have to do. Im anxious now to know how this year has been going. I for one dont believe it has gone well at all. I nearly agree with this artical. I dont however at this time believe in blaming Lutz, Wagner, or LeNave ( I need to learn how his name is spelled) They could have done better thats for sure but America is the problem, they just arent going to change their car buying outlook, especially when its so well known that "The Big Three" are in trouble. That just a huge red flag right there.

Then if thats not bad enough, the imports trump them on every detail, we have all seen that here.

More gears for the tranny, too late, such and such just  produced one that has one more.

Nice new hightec V6.........too late, everybody else just released one that has more HP/more torque/better milage

better interiors...........too late, everybody else just added newer more softie touch plastic down by the toe area

new styling..........too late, its dated now, everybody else has moved on

better warranty...........too late, such and such has always had one that good and better and sells their cars for less

new commercials..........too late, and far to craptastic for any customer to get past the "now selling for less.........." at the end

Im telling you guys, the Asian automachine is on a roll, in deep wet snow, and its growing so fast, nothing is going to stop it..........."in a free market"......."global economy". Money makes money and the Asians have it and the Americans do not. Spin it all you want, talk about 20 % with profit is better than 24 without. Then next year talk about 18% with profit is better than 20 without. Picture that old commercial, I forget what it was for, but it was a city and the streets were empty........thats your local GM dealerships customer parking lot. Now drive past or go to a Toyota dealership and see the action, go to a Hyundia dealership and see the action, go to a Honda dealership and see the action, now go to another GM dealership of you choise and tell me whats going on..............

Its the American attitude, we see it all the time here on this forum. Whether its the crying about items not being as special as _ _ _ _'s. Or who gives a crap about American manufactureing jobs or whatever topic pops up. Just check out the basic American attitude about its manufactures or workforce. We'd rather be politically correct and embrace immigrants, foreign cultures, our own slacker government, our own greedy healthcare system and any other number of problems than embrace our own people, our own culture, our own history, our own manufactureing base and so many other things Americana.

Now just go ahead and tell me Im wrong...........then just sit back with your complacent attitude about the condition of America and watch it all happen..........because you are too selfish and lazy to stand up for your own brothers and sisters and make a change in attitude.

Sound off topic, sound like a tangent? Is it really ? Look at the big picture

201399[/snapback]

Quote of the Year.

[SS427]

GM’s September sales figures are out. Despite generous Labor Day incentives, zero per cent financing to anyone with a pulse and an easy year-on-year comparison (GM was in the post-Fire Sale mode last September), vehicle sales are down seven percent.

As he stated the fire sale was over, GM had a terrible Sept (2005) and Sept 06 showed no improvement, well that's bad news.

September 2005/2004

http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet...n=6&docid=19171

Tahoe

September 2004 - 20,905

September 2005 - 9,151

September 2006 - 10,146

C/K Suburban(Chevy)

September 2004 - 12,987

September 2005 - 5,640

September 2006 - 5,837

Avalanche

September 2004 - 8,147

September 2005 - 4,131

September 2006 - 6,206

Yukon

September 2004 - 9,510

September 2005 - 5,094

September 2006 - 5,451

Yukon XL

September 2004 - 7,338

September 2005 - 3,689

September 2006 - 4,145

Escalade

September 2004 - 3,169

September 2005 - 2,449

September 2006 - 2,985

Escalade ESV

September 2004 - 1,521

September 2005 - 920

September 2006 - 1,892

Escalade EXT

September 2004 - 734

September 2005 - 495

September 2006 - 851

outside the Escalade (competing w/the old Navigator) the GMT-900's aren't all that hot. And I distinctly remember that jackass Lutz saying we are selling every GMT900 we can build, obviously we aren't.

Fargo is right on the money, the managment at GM which worked in the old days is completely wrong in today's enviroment.

It's time Lutz and GM's managment are held responsible for GM's failings, and I mean they need to be fired.

201419[/snapback]

It looks like the numbers are all up from the previous year even with the outrageous gas prices that we have had to pay and the only reason why 04 was better than 05 and 06 was because gas prices were lower and there was more demand for SUV's so don't make this look like this is GM's failure because these are market factors that affected EVERYBODY!!!!! and you will see similar decreases with all other SUV manufacturers, remember the 2004 and 2005 model years were essentially the same vehicle where 2006 was the transition from the GMT800 to GMT900, with all this in consideration GM is doing very well.

[Cien]

I'm reserving judgement until the end of the quarter, when the numbers for revenue come out. At this point, thats the only real important thing.

All GM needs to do for this year is to prove that thier financially solvent. Everything else will fall in place when Lambdas and the new cars arrive, and next summer when the contracts with the UAW are renegotiated.

I can't wait for the new contract, because after that's out of the way, we'll truly see the new GM.

[toyoguy]

How many attempts at a failed Tundra will make you call for a Toyota VP's head?

201448[/snapback]

There has been one Tundra and it is selling as Toyota originally planned.

I stand by my statement. GM's managment no longer works in today's marketplace. They are completely self-regulating and refuse to be held accountable.

Not only is GM's managment supposed to react to changing market conditions, they should also predict future changes. Both areas they have failed at consistently.

These cashback fire sales used to clear out excess inventory only reinforce my point. Why were they dumping vehicles on dealers in 2004 and 2005? Is there any reason to inflate profits one quarter to lose money the next. Unfortunatley common sense isn't all that common at GM.

Of course nobody will be replaced, the existing managment won't allow it, they'd rather see GM fail that accept responsibility for their negligence.

Edited October 5, 2006 by toyoguy

[turbo200]

What is wrong with the picture?

Toyota had 0% financing and huge resale value-diminishing rebates on thier cars in September, I know, I was with a friend who was looking at a Highlander and the salesman gave all the specials away on the lot.

GM's SUVs are selling at expectations without major incentives. SUVs were never supposed to be a big segment this year. Demand is clearly shifting away from them. We hit higher than $3/gallon this year, and STILL the 900s have posted sales increases.

Lutz is one of the few reasons GM has shreds of hope yet. Thanks to his shaking up of the design/development process, GM has excellent forthcoming cars to look forward to. Thanks to GM's reasonable thinking, we now have a company that has completely shifted away from fire sales, for the sake of image, sales be damned. They are losing sales to the competition, just so that they can get away from image-diminishing incentives. I'd say they learned the hard way and now are crashing against the waves for a little while until the good stuff comes out.

[deftonesfan867]

There has been one Tundra and it is selling as Toyota originally planned. 

I stand by my statement.  GM's managment no longer works in today's marketplace.  They are completely self-regulating and refuse to be held accountable.

Not only is GM's managment supposed to react to changing market conditions, they should also predict future changes.  Both areas they have failed at consistently.

These cashback fire sales used to clear out excess inventory only reinforce my point.  Why were they dumping vehicles on dealers in 2004 and 2005?  Is there any reason to inflate profits one quarter to lose money the next.  Unfortunatley common sense isn't all that common at GM.

Of course nobody will be replaced, the existing managment won't allow it, they'd rather see GM fail that accept responsibility for their negligence.

201577[/snapback]

Really...why must you troll this site? Your not a GM enthusiast, but yet you still come here spitting your drivel about how your always right and how Toyotas better than GM. Really it gets old. Grow up.

[Guest buickman]

What is wrong with the picture?

Toyota had 0% financing and huge resale value-diminishing rebates on thier cars in September, I know, I was with a friend who was looking at a Highlander and the salesman gave all the specials away on the lot.

GM's SUVs are selling at expectations without major incentives. SUVs were never supposed to be a big segment this year. Demand is clearly shifting away from them. We hit higher than $3/gallon this year, and STILL the 900s have posted sales increases.

Lutz is one of the few reasons GM has shreds of hope yet. Thanks to his shaking up of the design/development process, GM has excellent forthcoming cars to look forward to. Thanks to GM's reasonable thinking, we now have a company that has completely shifted away from fire sales, for the sake of image, sales be damned. They are losing sales to the competition, just so that they can get away from image-diminishing incentives. I'd say they learned the hard way and now are crashing against the waves for a little while until the good stuff comes out.

201585[/snapback]

Where have you been? No FIRE SALES??? Were you sleeping all summer??? Most of us with any form of recall remember spending the Fourth and Labor Day virtually giving vehicles away. You normally write intelligently but not this time old buddy.

Buickman

the voice...

[Matt276]

Really...why must you troll this site? Your not a GM enthusiast, but yet you still come here spitting your drivel about how your always right and how Toyotas better than GM. Really it gets old. Grow up.

201591[/snapback]

I said it before, Toyoguy has no place here.

[Mr.Krinkle]

Where have you been? No FIRE SALES??? Were you sleeping all summer??? Most of us with any form of recall remember spending the Fourth and Labor Day virtually giving vehicles away. You normally write intelligently but not this time old buddy.

Buickman

the voice...

201608[/snapback]

those were called holiday sales. hardly the same extravaganzas we saw last summer. only dc went down that road this year and you see where it got them.

for all the hype from toyota esp with regards to sales they only sold a couple thousand more. hardly worth it but they got plenty of cash to d*ck around with.

gm is swallowing some bitter pills right now. increasing value and changing perceptions comes at a cost. and will later reap the benefits. rather than vice versa which was basically the attitude from the 70's until now. there are plans for the future, pardon everyone else if you cant quite see them yet. mobilization of a company this large to coordinate a global effort and squeeze every ounce of profitibility and efficiency takes some time and effort...we should wonder why it took this long in the first place.

and to blame the current management now makes zero sense. these problems were sewn many many years ago. the middle east was just fine and dandy. too before gw got there, right? (hard to believe, but its not entirely his fault)

[Chicagoland]

When will they got to GM DW part 1000?

"The Plan" would have bombed Mr "I sell buicks to GM employees & retirees so I know it all" I'd like to see you try to sell old A body Centurys as 'new cars' now. Get laughed off the lot.

[Northstar]

Where have you been? No FIRE SALES??? Were you sleeping all summer??? Most of us with any form of recall remember spending the Fourth and Labor Day virtually giving vehicles away. You normally write intelligently but not this time old buddy.

Buickman

the voice...

201608[/snapback]

Oh, boy, that's a total of what, 5 days of fire sales? That's less than Toyota, Ford, Chrysler, or Nissan had. I'd say GM's doing pretty good with limiting fire sales then.

How about giving an example of a month-long firesale (or for that matter more than a few days)? Oh wait, you probably can't.

[Angry Dad]

There has been one Tundra and it is selling as Toyota originally planned. 

201577[/snapback]

Yeah changing the name from T100 absolves it.

AND, the next Tundra is so screwed up, Toyota is already pulling production from the line, before they even start the line.

[Manasseh33]

Yeah changing the name from T100 absolves it.

AND, the next Tundra is so screwed up, Toyota is already pulling production from the line, before they even start the line.

201744[/snapback]

I can easily believe that and Toyota's quality has decreased as their recalls have increased. (weren't their recalls in 2004 around 230,000. while in 05 they hit over 2 million?? ) Toyota is really having problems with a decline in quality I just wonder if they will fix them before the consumer's perception changes??

After owning nearly 50 cars in my short lifetime I purchased my first Asian made vehicle in 2005 due to Toyota's reputation and the experiences of others in my family. From the trim coming loose on the roof, the see through plastic on the guages being scratched when brushed slightly w/ a rag to the loud "thunking" noise in the rear glass when making a turn I was not impressed. I gave up my previous unreliable vehicle with a "soul" to own a reliable car and instead ended up with a boring, souless, unreliable car from Toyota and for the last 6 months I owned that Toyota I could only think each time I got behind the wheel how happy I would be when I got rid of it. And the famed Toyota "resale" value??? What a joke. I bought a loaded Avalon Limited for $37,000. and 18 months and 18,000. miles later I was offered $24,500. trade in?? I think that might be worse than my last Cadillac.

[FAPTurbo]

I said it before, Toyoguy has no place here.

201628[/snapback]

Uh, trust me... he does...

We need counterpoint...

[Drew Dowdell]

Uh, trust me... he does...

We need counterpoint...

201767[/snapback]

in case you haven't noticed, we produce much of our own counter point. How many times have we heard the RWD rants, the Pushrod rants, the anti-badge engineering rants? While those same people generally will also have good things to say about GM. They are GM's biggest fans and harshest critics.

Toyoguy, on the other hand, does none of the "biggest fan" part. His sole purpose here is to critique and spin.

Edited October 5, 2006 by Oldsmoboi

[deftonesfan867]

[jry]

Yeah changing the name from T100 absolves it.

AND, the next Tundra is so screwed up, Toyota is already pulling production from the line, before they even start the line.

201744[/snapback]

remember all the crap that hit the fan when toyota introduced the tacoma?

they were the laughing stock because they did not do market research. at the time tacoma, washington, the city they named the truck for was considered a hole. a pit. lots of dope, hookers and the like. toyota isn't anywhere near perfect.

[razoredge]

I dont think toyoguy is that far off, I believe most GM product is still one step behind. I believe GM styling is def. one step behind. Solstice is an exception unless you compare to say the Elise. C6 could be considered a styling exception but it is actually only an answer to some of what we've already seen comming out of Europe for a long time. I think GM needs to fire its styling staff. Earls and Mitchells, they are not, by any streach. This is the Lutz department so Im not getting it.

Lutz/Wagner the savior ? Compared to what ? Results are still pending

As for sales incentives, Id say the 0% for five days was a biggy. Especially considering cars were rotting on the lots prior, then immeadiatly after they returned to ghost town status. Now the past month has been dealer sales to rid remaining 06 inventory, and thats around here, an area that has not been totally alergic to domestic automobiles. Ive already seen more new Camrys than Lacrosse/Lucerne combined 2 year spottings or has Lacrosse been three already ? Now Impala and GP is another story, lots of them, but I figure within a year they will be outnumbered by new Camry. If one could deal with the interior, and never have to approach it from the rear, the GP is a hell of a deal these days..........

Everyones waiting for a hero........except those already buying Asian cars. Its highly possible no formula will work, for American industry......... in the "global world"

So lets just throw her in 9th gear and race......straight to the bottom...........

[Guest buickman]

I dont think toyoguy is that far off, I believe most GM product is still one step behind. I believe GM styling is def. one step behind. Solstice is an exception unless you compare to say the Elise. C6 could be considered a styling exception but it is actually only an answer to some of what we've already seen comming out of Europe for a long time. I think GM needs to fire its styling staff. Earls and Mitchells, they are not, by any streach. This is the Lutz department so Im not getting it.

Lutz/Wagner the savior ? Compared to what ? Results are still pending

As for sales incentives, Id say the 0% for five days was a biggy. Especially considering cars were rotting on the lots prior, then immeadiatly after they returned to ghost town status. Now the past month has been dealer sales to rid remaining 06 inventory, and thats around here, an area that has not been totally alergic to domestic automobiles. Ive already seen more new Camrys than Lacrosse/Lucerne combined 2 year spottings or has Lacrosse been three already ? Now Impala and GP is another story, lots of them, but I figure within a year they will be outnumbered by new Camry. If one could deal with the interior, and never have to approach it from the rear, the GP is a hell of a deal these days..........

Everyones waiting for a hero........except those already buying Asian cars. Its highly possible no formula will work, for American industry......... in the "global world"

So lets just throw her in 9th gear and race......straight to the bottom...........

201824[/snapback]

Your hero is here.

the voice...

[razoredge]

Your hero is here.

the voice...

201825[/snapback]

No, sorry Dude, you aint the one either, you have a few good points but they aint the answer, Lutz aint the answer, Wagner aint the answer, Goshen aint the answer, softie touchy plastic aint the answer, high output high value DOHC engines aint the answer, no bench seats aint the answer, heated washer fluid aint the answer, 8 speed trannys aint the answer, mutiple airbags aint the answer, by wire this and that aint the answer

Americans not growing a brain aint the answer either

So lets all just kick back and for the new world order

[Mr.Krinkle]

No, sorry Dude, you aint the one either, you have a few good points but they aint the answer, Lutz aint the answer, Wagner aint the answer, Goshen aint the answer, softie touchy plastic aint the answer, high output high value DOHC engines aint the answer, no bench seats aint the answer, heated washer fluid aint the answer, 8 speed trannys aint the answer, mutiple airbags aint the answer, by wire this and that aint the answer

Americans not growing a brain aint the answer either

So lets all just kick back and  for the new world order

201829[/snapback]

id like to think the tide is turning. i hear where you are coming from but things are gonna change. either someone else drops the ball and f's up or because the restructuring may evolve into something more meaningful.

an American revolution? it could happen.

not only have vehicles improved,-- be it marginally on some or really obvious and welcome, even grandios on others --toyota is only a couple of major recalls or setbacks away from really having a resonant effect in the minds of shoppers.

these things add up. theyll f8ck up just like everyone else. either the same ways gm did--arguably happening or in some new and exciting ways...stay tuned

questions will become more pronounced and lets be real honest...its damn near impossible to keep up quality control at these levels. just sheer math is gonna bite you on the ass. ive been saying that forever, and many others probably too.

they can do it on their own but things are gonna shake up no matter what.

might even be something as stupid as hydrogen. hey, thats what makes it interesting.

[guionM]

Returning to profitablility? Stabilizing market share? More semantics from spin artists and blind followers. Start looking at the trees and you'll notice the forest is disappearing.

the voice...

201389[/snapback]

Everyone who disagrees with you and or sees through your act is just a blind follower, yet you and your "Plan to save GM" is the only thing that "can" save GM.

Fortunately, it seems people here are begining to think for themselves and once again, you bring up that tired old "Blind Follower" flag.

Everyone and their brother inside GM, inside OEMs (Original Equiptment Manufacturers for those who don't know), and people outside of both who have above average math comprehension and a room tempreature IQ have all either attempted to explain things to you, or attempted to focus your efforts into a more constructive or helpful direction. In short, you've pretty much s*itted on them.

Recapping for those who haven't had the pleasure of knowing who Buickman is,

1. His name is Jim Dollenger. He's made a tidy living selling Buicks to GM employees and retirees up in Michigan.

2. He fancies himself an expert on how the car industry operates. As a salesman, he believes it's not the product that's important, it's the sales. In short, if it ain't selling, it's the way it's being sold, not that someone else has a better product, or the market is changing.

3. He created some multi point plan he's been hawking for longer than I can remember. He posted it a few times, and invited constructive criticism, then proceeded to either ignore, ridicule, or act condesending to everyone who took up his offer.

4. He attempted to sell this plan to GM for millions of dollars. GM offered him a corperate position to implement his "plan". He refused and demanded the money. GM understandably showed him the door.

5. He's been on this anti Rick Wagoner and GM board of directors rampage, and created his GM Deathwatch website as his own little self aggrandizing shrine to himself. Of course, every anti-GM person flocks to this place. It also has plenty of "testimonials" from so called believers in his "Plan to save GM".

6. This past year, he has advocated Delphi workers to go on strike, specifically so he could damage GM. He went in to GM's annual stockholders meeting and made a complete a** of himself by calling the CEO names, & insulting the board of directors and creating a disturbance... of course, earning an ejection from the gathering.

7. He used this little stint of his to say that he was tossed out because GM was trying to "silence him" because he had plans to "save" GM, and they didn't want to listen to him.

If there's anyone left on this website that might be tempted to actually believe him and his sincerity in saving GM, ask yourself:

1. Why do you only hear from him when he wants to slam GM?

2. Why can't he go more than a few posts without showing a disturbing and alarming hatred for Rick Wagoner in particular?

3. Where is he when there's good GM news to report, and why does he never give GM credit?

4. Bob Lutz is the most respected car executive in the business. He has worked at Ford, BMW, Mercedes, Ford Europe, essentially ran Chrysler, and has forgotten more about cars the past hour than Mr Jim Dollenger ever learned about cars in his life. Every automaker would kill to get Lutz on board. Yet, Jim slams him incessantly. Oh yeah..... Lutz criticised Jim's tactics too. That probally explains it.

5. Everyone who has more than 3 posts here is aware that it takes years to get a new car from idea to the showroom. 3-5 is the norm. Also affecting time is the money available to create these new cars. Why isn't Jim aware of that being in the car business all these years?

6. Finally, this is the guy who slammed the new Buick Enclave. He made the point in another thread on this site (do a search under his posts to see some of his posting jewels) that the Rendevous was a great ride and shouldn't be replaced, and if only GM followed his plan, they wouldn't need to create the Enclave. This was about the same time that story came out that had the Rendevous as having the worse depriciation of any "Truck" in America.

I never slam anyone, and i don't have a reputation as someone who flames others. Even when I debate, I try to keep things balenced and civil. However, I have never come across anyone who is just so destructive while saying he "wants only what's best for GM".

As long as it's $$$ for him, and he gets his revenge against the bully's who kicked sand in his face at the beach, then in his mind it's "Best for GM".

Unlike what he'll probally post, I'm not going to attempt to sell you my views, or resort to name calling if you disagree with me, or pretend I'm some savior of a plan or a thought.

And I'm not going to speak in cute metaphors an an attempt to impress you of the wisdom of what I say as a disquise to hide the fact that it's all just a con job to get you on my side. I can talk in regular straightforward language instead and get my point across easily.

All I'm gonna say is do a search on Buickman's posts, and make up your own mind.

Nuff said.

[Northstar]

Your hero is here.

the ego...

201825[/snapback]

[Variance]

Everyone who disagrees with you and or sees through your act is just a blind follower, yet you and your "Plan to save GM" is the only thing that "can" save GM.

Fortunately, it seems people here are begining to think for themselves and once again, you bring up that tired old "Blind Follower" flag.

Everyone and their brother inside GM, inside OEMs (Original Equiptment Manufacturers for those who don't know), and people outside of both who have above average math comprehension and a room tempreature IQ have all either attempted to explain things to you, or attempted to focus your efforts into a more constructive or helpful direction. In short, you've pretty much s*itted on them.

Recapping for those who haven't had the pleasure of knowing who Buickman is,

1. His name is Jim Dollenger. He's made a tidy living selling Buicks to GM employees and retirees up in Michigan.

2. He fancies himself an expert on how the car industry operates. As a salesman, he believes it's not the product that's important, it's the sales. In short, if it ain't selling, it's the way it's being sold, not that someone else has a better product, or the market is changing.

3. He created some multi point plan he's been hawking for longer than I can remember. He posted it a few times, and invited constructive criticism, then proceeded to either ignore, ridicule, or act condesending to everyone who took up his offer.

4. He attempted to sell this plan to GM for millions of dollars. GM offered him a corperate position to implement his "plan". He refused and demanded the money. GM understandably showed him the door.

5. He's been on this anti Rick Wagoner and GM board of directors rampage, and created his GM Deathwatch website as his own little self aggrandizing shrine to himself. Of course, every anti-GM person flocks to this place. It also has plenty of "testimonials" from so called believers in his "Plan to save GM".

6. This past year, he has advocated Delphi workers to go on strike, specifically so he could damage GM. He went in to GM's annual stockholders meeting and made a complete a** of himself by calling the CEO names, & insulting the board of directors and creating a disturbance... of course, earning an ejection from the gathering.

7. He used this little stint of his to say that he was tossed out because GM was trying to "silence him" because he had plans to "save" GM, and they didn't want to listen to him.

If there's anyone left on this website that might be tempted to actually believe him and his sincerity in saving GM, ask yourself:

1. Why do you only hear from him when he wants to slam GM?

2. Why can't he go more than a few posts without showing a disturbing and alarming hatred for Rick Wagoner in particular?

3. Where is he when there's good GM news to report, and why does he never give GM credit?

4. Bob Lutz is the most respected car executive in the business. He has worked at Ford, BMW, Mercedes, Ford Europe, essentially ran Chrysler, and has forgotten more about cars the past hour than Mr Jim Dollenger ever learned about cars in his life. Every automaker would kill to get Lutz on board. Yet, Jim slams him incessantly. Oh yeah..... Lutz criticised Jim's tactics too. That probally explains it.

5. Everyone who has more than 3 posts here is aware that it takes years to get a new car from idea to the showroom. 3-5 is the norm. Also affecting time is the money available to create these new cars. Why isn't Jim aware of that being in the car business all these years?

6. Finally, this is the guy who slammed the new Buick Enclave. He made the point in another thread on this site (do a search under his posts to see some of his posting jewels) that the Rendevous was a great ride and shouldn't be replaced, and if only GM followed his plan, they wouldn't need to create the Enclave. This was about the same time that story came out that had the Rendevous as having the worse depriciation of any "Truck" in America.

I never slam anyone, and i don't have a reputation as someone who flames others. Even when I debate, I try to keep things balenced and civil. However, I have never come across anyone who is just so destructive while saying he "wants only what's best for GM".

As long as it's $$$ for him, and he gets his revenge against the bully's who kicked sand in his face at the beach, then in his mind it's "Best for GM".

Unlike what he'll probally post, I'm not going to attempt to sell you my views, or resort to name calling if you disagree with me, or pretend I'm some savior of a plan or a thought.

And I'm not going to speak in cute metaphors an an attempt to impress you of the wisdom of what I say as a disquise to hide the fact that it's all just a con job to get you on my side. I can talk in regular straightforward language instead and get my point across easily.

All I'm gonna say is do a search on Buickman's posts, and make up your own mind.

Nuff said.

201920[/snapback]

That may have been one of the best posts in the history of this forum.

[Guest buickman]

Everyone who disagrees with you and or sees through your act is just a blind follower, yet you and your "Plan to save GM" is the only thing that "can" save GM.

Fortunately, it seems people here are begining to think for themselves and once again, you bring up that tired old "Blind Follower" flag.

Everyone and their brother inside GM, inside OEMs (Original Equiptment Manufacturers for those who don't know), and people outside of both who have above average math comprehension and a room tempreature IQ have all either attempted to explain things to you, or attempted to focus your efforts into a more constructive or helpful direction. In short, you've pretty much s*itted on them.

Recapping for those who haven't had the pleasure of knowing who Buickman is,

1. His name is Jim Dollenger. He's made a tidy living selling Buicks to GM employees and retirees up in Michigan.

2. He fancies himself an expert on how the car industry operates. As a salesman, he believes it's not the product that's important, it's the sales. In short, if it ain't selling, it's the way it's being sold, not that someone else has a better product, or the market is changing.

3. He created some multi point plan he's been hawking for longer than I can remember. He posted it a few times, and invited constructive criticism, then proceeded to either ignore, ridicule, or act condesending to everyone who took up his offer.

4. He attempted to sell this plan to GM for millions of dollars. GM offered him a corperate position to implement his "plan". He refused and demanded the money. GM understandably showed him the door.

5. He's been on this anti Rick Wagoner and GM board of directors rampage, and created his GM Deathwatch website as his own little self aggrandizing shrine to himself. Of course, every anti-GM person flocks to this place. It also has plenty of "testimonials" from so called believers in his "Plan to save GM".

6. This past year, he has advocated Delphi workers to go on strike, specifically so he could damage GM. He went in to GM's annual stockholders meeting and made a complete a** of himself by calling the CEO names, & insulting the board of directors and creating a disturbance... of course, earning an ejection from the gathering.

7. He used this little stint of his to say that he was tossed out because GM was trying to "silence him" because he had plans to "save" GM, and they didn't want to listen to him.

If there's anyone left on this website that might be tempted to actually believe him and his sincerity in saving GM, ask yourself:

1. Why do you only hear from him when he wants to slam GM?

2. Why can't he go more than a few posts without showing a disturbing and alarming hatred for Rick Wagoner in particular?

3. Where is he when there's good GM news to report, and why does he never give GM credit?

4. Bob Lutz is the most respected car executive in the business. He has worked at Ford, BMW, Mercedes, Ford Europe, essentially ran Chrysler, and has forgotten more about cars the past hour than Mr Jim Dollenger ever learned about cars in his life. Every automaker would kill to get Lutz on board. Yet, Jim slams him incessantly. Oh yeah..... Lutz criticised Jim's tactics too. That probally explains it.

5. Everyone who has more than 3 posts here is aware that it takes years to get a new car from idea to the showroom. 3-5 is the norm. Also affecting time is the money available to create these new cars. Why isn't Jim aware of that being in the car business all these years?

6. Finally, this is the guy who slammed the new Buick Enclave. He made the point in another thread on this site (do a search under his posts to see some of his posting jewels) that the Rendevous was a great ride and shouldn't be replaced, and if only GM followed his plan, they wouldn't need to create the Enclave. This was about the same time that story came out that had the Rendevous as having the worse depriciation of any "Truck" in America.

I never slam anyone, and i don't have a reputation as someone who flames others. Even when I debate, I try to keep things balenced and civil. However, I have never come across anyone who is just so destructive while saying he "wants only what's best for GM".

As long as it's $$$ for him, and he gets his revenge against the bully's who kicked sand in his face at the beach, then in his mind it's "Best for GM".

Unlike what he'll probally post, I'm not going to attempt to sell you my views, or resort to name calling if you disagree with me, or pretend I'm some savior of a plan or a thought.

And I'm not going to speak in cute metaphors an an attempt to impress you of the wisdom of what I say as a disquise to hide the fact that it's all just a con job to get you on my side. I can talk in regular straightforward language instead and get my point across easily.

All I'm gonna say is do a search on Buickman's posts, and make up your own mind.

Nuff said.

201920[/snapback]

You are not only mistaken, but a FLAT BOLD FACED LIAR. Your post is so full of error and falsehood that it's not worth even detailing a response.

Buickman

Edited October 6, 2006 by buickman

[nightwave]

Truth hurts, don't it Jimbo.

[Satty]

[Drew Dowdell]

Everyone who disagrees with you and or sees through your act is just a blind follower, yet you and your "Plan to save GM" is the only thing that "can" save GM.

Fortunately, it seems people here are begining to think for themselves and once again, you bring up that tired old "Blind Follower" flag.

Everyone and their brother inside GM, inside OEMs (Original Equiptment Manufacturers for those who don't know), and people outside of both who have above average math comprehension and a room tempreature IQ have all either attempted to explain things to you, or attempted to focus your efforts into a more constructive or helpful direction. In short, you've pretty much s*itted on them.

Recapping for those who haven't had the pleasure of knowing who Buickman is,

1. His name is Jim Dollenger. He's made a tidy living selling Buicks to GM employees and retirees up in Michigan.

2. He fancies himself an expert on how the car industry operates. As a salesman, he believes it's not the product that's important, it's the sales. In short, if it ain't selling, it's the way it's being sold, not that someone else has a better product, or the market is changing.

3. He created some multi point plan he's been hawking for longer than I can remember. He posted it a few times, and invited constructive criticism, then proceeded to either ignore, ridicule, or act condesending to everyone who took up his offer.

4. He attempted to sell this plan to GM for millions of dollars. GM offered him a corperate position to implement his "plan". He refused and demanded the money. GM understandably showed him the door.

5. He's been on this anti Rick Wagoner and GM board of directors rampage, and created his GM Deathwatch website as his own little self aggrandizing shrine to himself. Of course, every anti-GM person flocks to this place. It also has plenty of "testimonials" from so called believers in his "Plan to save GM".

6. This past year, he has advocated Delphi workers to go on strike, specifically so he could damage GM. He went in to GM's annual stockholders meeting and made a complete a** of himself by calling the CEO names, & insulting the board of directors and creating a disturbance... of course, earning an ejection from the gathering.

7. He used this little stint of his to say that he was tossed out because GM was trying to "silence him" because he had plans to "save" GM, and they didn't want to listen to him.

If there's anyone left on this website that might be tempted to actually believe him and his sincerity in saving GM, ask yourself:

1. Why do you only hear from him when he wants to slam GM?

2. Why can't he go more than a few posts without showing a disturbing and alarming hatred for Rick Wagoner in particular?

3. Where is he when there's good GM news to report, and why does he never give GM credit?

4. Bob Lutz is the most respected car executive in the business. He has worked at Ford, BMW, Mercedes, Ford Europe, essentially ran Chrysler, and has forgotten more about cars the past hour than Mr Jim Dollenger ever learned about cars in his life. Every automaker would kill to get Lutz on board. Yet, Jim slams him incessantly. Oh yeah..... Lutz criticised Jim's tactics too. That probally explains it.

5. Everyone who has more than 3 posts here is aware that it takes years to get a new car from idea to the showroom. 3-5 is the norm. Also affecting time is the money available to create these new cars. Why isn't Jim aware of that being in the car business all these years?

6. Finally, this is the guy who slammed the new Buick Enclave. He made the point in another thread on this site (do a search under his posts to see some of his posting jewels) that the Rendevous was a great ride and shouldn't be replaced, and if only GM followed his plan, they wouldn't need to create the Enclave. This was about the same time that story came out that had the Rendevous as having the worse depriciation of any "Truck" in America.

I never slam anyone, and i don't have a reputation as someone who flames others. Even when I debate, I try to keep things balenced and civil. However, I have never come across anyone who is just so destructive while saying he "wants only what's best for GM".

As long as it's $$$ for him, and he gets his revenge against the bully's who kicked sand in his face at the beach, then in his mind it's "Best for GM".

Unlike what he'll probally post, I'm not going to attempt to sell you my views, or resort to name calling if you disagree with me, or pretend I'm some savior of a plan or a thought.

And I'm not going to speak in cute metaphors an an attempt to impress you of the wisdom of what I say as a disquise to hide the fact that it's all just a con job to get you on my side. I can talk in regular straightforward language instead and get my point across easily.

All I'm gonna say is do a search on Buickman's posts, and make up your own mind.

Nuff said.

201920[/snapback]

[Guest buickman]

Truth hurts, don't it Jimbo.

201961[/snapback]

There's little truth in the post to be concerned of. I'm not really interested in falsehoods and have enough proven successes to not be worried over tasteless ramblings by someone so obviously in the wrong.

Buickman

the voice...

[Satty]

Sorry, but I'm far more inclined to believe the words of guionM and other known quantities than those of a salesman.

[Guest YellowJacket894]

Two people on this forum deserved to be banned, and that is Toyoguy and Buickman.

People, may I remind you of the following, please?

The best thing for all of us to do is add both Toyoguy and Buickman to our Ignore User lists until they vanish from these forums.