Want To Know What's Sad?

[Cory Wolfe]

That's fine BV... you've proven that the Lucerne can be rather plebeian in its lower trim levels. Considering those were meant to replace LeSabre, there's nothing laughable about it.

In your comparison, you discredited everything that's gained from 12 years of advancement to "level" the playing field because it wasn't available back in 1994/95. Uh... considering the amount of technology that the Lucerne has standard & available over the Millenia, that's not going to work.

That's just an excuse. I simply compared the most similar models.

Why would I not? If wasn't available back then, with no possibility of the Millenia having it, then its a mute point and should be discredited.

As you've mentioned some points, I'll emphasize some too:

[*]Safety features: standard on the Lucerne V6 that were optional/ weren't available on the Millenia:

On-Star (standard)

Dual-Depth front airbags (standard)

Side impact airbags (standard)

Side-curtain airbags (standard)

Traction Control (standard on Lucerne - Optional on Millenia)

Keyless remote entry (standard on Lucerne - optional on Millenia)

I did, ofcourse, mention all of. I didn't mention whether something was standard or optional, however.

[*]Pollution: The ancient Series III 3800 V6 in greener than the Mazda's anemic 2.5l v6.

As most engines that take Premium usually pollute more. That's a given.

[*]Performance: It's difficult to find a single source for both cars... but here's what I found:

AutoChannel's Performance data on the base Millenia:

0-60 MPH        9.0 seconds

1/4 (E.T.)        17.0 seconds @ 85.5 mph

Top speed      135 mph

Autoweek published the V6 Lucerne's performance data at:

0 to 60 mph: 8.4 seconds (est.)

Almost all reviews are for the V8-powered Lucerne. I've seen individual V6 Lucerne 0-60 in the low 8's to low 9's. So the Millenia's performance isn't anything to right home about compared to the Lucerne's.

I never said the Millenia's performance with the 2.5L was any better than the Lucerne's with the 3.8L. Then, take into consideration that the 2.5L is much smaller engine by more than a litre, so for it to make the power it does is impressive and is atleast comparable to the Lucerne's due its lighter weight.

[*]Interior space: Regardless of what you're trying to accomplish with posting stats, the Lucerne's interior is far from "mid-size" like the cramped Millenia's. The Lucerne's interior is 14 cubic feet larger than the Millenia's.

Mazda Millenia

Interior Volume: 94 ft3

Trunk Volume: 13 ft3

Buick Lucerne

Interior Volume: 108 ft3

Trunk Volume: 17 ft3

The extra 14 cubic feet is largely due to its longer wheelbase. It doesnt take much to add up to that. Going by the specs I've posted, and my own personal experience in sitting in both back to back, the Lucerne is only roomier in the back seat. I find the Millenia to be anything but cramped. Now my Grand Am? It was cramped. It fit me like a glove. A very tight glove.

[*]Amenities: The Lucerne has a quieter ride to provide an experience that's more in-line with a luxury car. The Lucerne's warranty is also superior to the Millenia's. You mentioned automatic climate control on both, but you failed to acknowledge that the Lucerne's is dual-zone while the Millenia's is single-zone. Where is your 6-disc CD player located at? Lucerne has it built into the dash... you know, with that "let's put it in all our vehicles" receiver" you snubbed. Then there is the 'memory seat' feature, and the built in compass.

What's significant about the above amenities? They were all available in 1995. Mazda could have offered these features, but didn't. Outside of the in-dash 6-disc CD player, the Buick Park Avenue had them available in 1995.

All available in 95 in limited qualities. This and you do have to consider the fact that the Millenia first was built back in 93, being designed in the very early 90s. So it would be more accurate to list these for atleast 93, rather than 95. Again, not many vehicles had these sort of things back then. Especially in dash 6-disc CD changers. The others, you are correct with, however.

Throw in the fact that the Millenia has a Ford-sourced transmission, and the Lucerne comes out smelling like roses for offering ALL OF THIS at similar prices to your car in 1995. This is just my opnion, but I'd definitely pay $1,000 more in 2006 dollars for all the features in a Lucerne CXS V8 over the 1995 Mazda Millenia S... Same goes for the CXL V6 Lucerne to the Millenia Base.

Yes, the transmission is Ford sourced and is definitely one of the things the Millenia could have done without. That is its biggest, if only, flaw. These transmissions aren't the most reliable. Damn Ford anyways.

As far as what you'd take, again, different strokes for different folks. I've rather have a car that was advanced for when it was designed that's also packaged well with a roomy interior that doesnt require a large exterior. It's also much more refined, IMO. Don't forget, I said IMO.

Cars.com pricing for 1995 Millenia:

4dr Sedan Base w/CLOTH  - $27,525 

4dr Sedan S                    - $33,595 

Cars.com pricing for 2007 Lucerne:

4dr Sedan CX                  - $25,515     

4dr Sedan CXL V6            - $28,530     

4dr Sedan CXL V8            - $30,540     

4dr Sedan CXS                - $34,545

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The prices you listed differ from the ones I found. Considering it's missing a trim...

But damn, You made your post hard to reply to, you realize that? Damn list feature.

[Cory Wolfe]

I was impressed with the 205/230 L36 in my 99 Olds, very strong and quite engine. Would leave any intersection and pass with ease, put it down and it would go like hell. It was actually a very refined engine, runnng 10.3 compression on 87 octane, pull like a pissed off pony clear to 6000. Better drive one again, I think you drink to much of the negitive cocktails being poured around this place.

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So is the 2.5L in my Millenia. Like a DOHC, though, it doesnt start pulling until about 2k rpms. Better than most DOHC V6s, though, and certainly I4s. I know my Grand Am had no power until about 4k, and its redline was at 6.1k.