Number Five

[Flybrian]

I'll be getting the car's title with a SALVAGE branding instead of a Certificate of Destruction. This means I can (and will) rebuild it. The fact they would even tender a concept such as UNSALVAGABLEto me is appalling and pisses me off even more.

I'm not even speaking with my adjustor anymore apparently; now, its his boss. She told me she'd e-mail me the estimate (still waiting...) - that's right, they were about to seal this whole deal without me even seeing an estimate. She mentioned one of the biggest problems they had was parts availablity and the to get a left front fender from GM directly would cost $1100.

ORLY?

Went to GMPartsDirect and shopping-carted one for a hair under $400 including shipping. She also said they "searched their extensive salvage yeard database" for LKQ fenders and bumper covers and could find none in the entire Southeast.

ORLY?

Found 10 bumper covers, 9 left-hand headlamp assemblies, and 14 left-hand fenders, several of which were actually Silver Teal Metallic after fifteen minutes of searching online. All, by the way, in the Southeast - unless Georgia and South Carolina moved recently.

I enjoy the bull$h!, but not as much as I love the LIES...

More pictures of how Progressive's Express (dis)Service Center treats your cars...

[Camino LS6]

I wouldn't accept a salvage title just because they are lazy. Send them the info you gathered and tell them you want it fixed,pronto, with no salvage brand on the title as well as a new camera which they undeniably owe you. Catch them in their lies and stick it up their ass.

Idiots!

[DetroitNut90]

I would appear Progressive has passed Carmax in the lousy service department...

I'm really sorry to hear about this Fly, best of luck to you.

[ocnblu]

Was there damage in the gray portion of the bumper cover from this accident?

The $1100 figure for a fender is total bull$h!. If a new fender is still available from GM, the list price is published for the entire US. If it is discontinued, all bets are off. I have not checked. I can if you want.

It sounds like you're going to gather your own parts and have it fixed.

Best of luck to you in getting your beloved car back on the road.

When you get a copy of the estimate, I'll be interested in seeing it if you care to send it along.

[Guest YellowJacket894]

$h!, man. They vandalized that Aurora.

Lay down the law on the bastards. Tell them you want it fixed from them with at least a rebuilt title and five-hundred dollars to make up from the loss of the camera or you'll see them in court. There's no way in hell they'd win a lawsuit considering the circumstances and proof. You'd win it in a walk.

[Flybrian]

Was there damage in the gray portion of the bumper cover from this accident?

If you mean that foam protecting the impact bar, no, not at all.

The $1100 figure for a fender is total bull$h!.  If a new fender is still available from GM, the list price is published for the entire US.  If it is discontinued, all bets are off.  I have not checked.  I can if you want.

It sounds like you're going to gather your own parts and have it fixed.

Best of luck to you in getting your beloved car back on the road.

Thank you.

When you get a copy of the estimate, I'll be interested in seeing it if you care to send it along.

196829[/snapback]

Expect it, sir.

[ocnblu]

Cool, Mr. Fly. I'll look for it.

I think I answered my own question about damage in the gray, lower, textured portion of the bumper cover around the foglights. Now that I look closer, I see a white scuff in the texture in one of your "before the butchering" photos above. That texture cannot be repaired, so the bumper cover was, indeed, in need of replacement, hence the unkind cut to check for hidden structural damage.

[Camino LS6]

Many cars damaged to this degree are simply never fixed and driven as is. They should have refrained from causing additional damage and cut you a check for 4k or so (per their estimate) and given you the option of having it fixed or not. Now, because of their actions, you have no good options - so I say make them bleed for everything.

[Flybrian]

That scuff is actually a preexisting condition, one they failed to ask about or recognize. Also, what it was from was a painted surface, so I think 30 minutes with some Mothers would've removed/covered up 80% of it at least.

In any case, I've seen worse on 2004 models that people simply don't care to fix and it still doesn't rationalize the godawful mangling. If they were going to replace it anyway, it needed to be removed, not chopped. I could've cut the bumper off better than that if I were so stupid as to not realize I could've removed it with the retaining clips.

I'm just pissed knowing that I could've taken it to a shop and left with a fixed car and a $2052.26 bill instead of doing it the 'right way' and having a torn-up car with a salvage strike and the hassle of having to retitle and inspect it.

Also, I still have no estimate. Again, if I were stupid, my car would've been in some salvage yard being raped by every junkyard dealer right now with me having no real knowledge of what even caused it to end up like that and without seeing the estimate or having a chance to take it to my choice of bodyshops. That alone pisses me off because there are alot of good, honest, and trusting people whose naiivity could cost them tremendously simply because they're not car people like we are. It sickens me to remember that I had to insist upon being showed an estimate, that it wasn't made available to me right away. I also am disgusted about how their story keeps changing; first, the total cost of repairs were about $4600. Then, it was really about $3900, but the "additional cost of the rental car" would've pushed it "really close" to $4095, my car's value. Then, they cannot obtain parts "anywhere" through their "vast salvage yard database" and that a fender alone costs "$1100."

If it were as simple as, "Mr. Dreggors, we cannot financially justify repairing your car. Here are your options. If you want to keep the car, here's the payoff you'll receive and here's the rebuildable title. We had to remove the headlamp cluster, but we put it in the trunk if you wish to keep it or thow it away. We used 1/4 tank of gas. We'll tow your car to your house, simply return the rental to the nearest Enterprise within 72 hours after signing the papers. Here is the estimate we came up with for your reference. We apolgize and good luck with whatever you wish to do," I would be disappointed, but accepting, and I'd deal with it.

Their attitude, their amateur 'inspection,' and their general disregard for me as a customer disgusts me. My car will drive again, no doubt. But this isn't over.

[Camino LS6]

Fly

-Refuse the deal

-get other estimates

-insist that it be repaired

- do not accept the verdict of total, your own research proves that the repair can be done for less than the value of the car. Get written estimates to prove this and they will have to comply.

-demand that they replace your camera.

-Rule of thumb: Always take the car to an independent shop for the damage estimate and never to the insurance company's "pet" shop.

- Don't forget that it is your car and that you are the wronged party in all of this. They owe you, make them pay.

[ocnblu]

We do not give estimates to customers with totalled vehicles. Customers most times don't realize that the total loss threshold varies among insurance companies, and the type of car. A misconception is that "total loss" means the estimate is at or above 100% of the value of the car. Some companies put the threshold as low as 65%, most are at 80%. Too many times when a car is totalled and I (rarely, it's officially out of my hands at that point) verbally tell the customer what the estimate amounts to, they think that is the value of their car. Putting a value on a totalled car is not the shop's job, it is the insurance company's job. All I do is report the damage to the insurance company, and they make the decision, after running some numbers, on whether the car is economically repairable. They tell me what they want to do, and all I am able to do at that point is tell the customer "you will hear from your insurance company".

One of our insurance companies asks us to make 3 calls for salvage parts and 2 calls for aftermarket parts, even on a car that has 5 miles on it. Other companies aren't so anal about it, but I do call for any other company's customers if the car is a few years old. And we don't put junk on aything, it has to be in good shape. I choose our 3 biggest salvage yards that we do business with. They have locators to find parts at other yards all over the country. But it is not a perfect system. There are a lot of junkyards out there.

We have fixed cars that should have been totalled for elderly folks who have an older car in good condition, because the customer doesn't want the expense or unfamiliarity of a new car, and because the car wouldn't bring much in salvage for the insurance company. But the vast majority of the time, the insurance company acts as a business based on numbers, with not much room for emotionality.

As for your bumper cover, Brian, most times I try to engage the customer and ask them about prior damage. That bumper cover was cut only because of the scuff in the textured area, which made it unrepairable. The estimator was trying to write a complete estimate when he saw that, but... he should have had you there while he wrote it so you could point out things like the fact that was a prior spot of damage.

Edited September 23, 2006 by ocnblu

[Flybrian]

Putting a value on a totalled car is not the shop's job, it is the insurance company's job.  All I do is report the damage to the insurance company, and they make the decision, after running some numbers, on whether the car is economically repairable.  They tell me what they want to do, and all I am able to do at that point is tell the customer "you will hear from your insurance company".

And this is where they as a service provider broke down completely. If my car wasn't simply so full of my personal junk that they couldn't really box it all up, my car could have ended up God-knows-where and I wouldn't have known for a whole 'nother day. I know this because the adjustor himself told me he wasn't planning on calling me until tomorrow afternoon, which would've been late Friday.

One of our insurance companies asks us to make 3 calls for salvage parts and 2 calls for aftermarket parts, even on a car that has 5 miles on it.  Other companies aren't so anal about it, but I do call for any other company's customers if the car is a few years old.  And we don't put junk on aything, it has to be in good shape.  I choose our 3 biggest salvage yards that we do business with.  They have locators to find parts at other yards all over the country.  But it is not a perfect system.  There are a lot of junkyards out there.

Again, I don't understand how I could search a national database and find a large number of parts in my area and they could not. But, in whatever case, this figure quoted by my adjustor kept changing even though he "had the paperwork in front of him." First, on Thursday, the "repairs alone" exceeded the value of the car, then on Friday, it was "just on their 80% threshold", but the "cost of my rental over the repair time pushed it close..." what is it?

We have fixed cars that should have been totalled for elderly folks who have an older car in good condition, because the customer doesn't want the expense or unfamiliarity of a new car, and because the car wouldn't bring much in salvage for the insurance company.  But the vast majority of the time, the insurance company acts as a business based on numbers, with not much room for emotionality.

What baffles me is how the three different people representing Progressive seemed so hell-bent and simply taking that car from me regardless of what I wanted to do with it. I understand its status quo to simply junk it, cut you a check, and try and sell you a new car through their referral service (something I also didn't appreciate), but when I specifically verbalize to them, "I intend to keep the Olds regardless of anything," and they keep telling - not, suggesting, but telling - that the rational and 'better' thing to do would be to let them have the car so I could an additional $350-400 on my payoff is insulting to me. And everytime I said I wanted the car back, you could hear that frustrated sigh before the person reiterated to me what their advised course of action would be.

Also, you should've heard how much static they gave me over the title branding, insisting that a Certificate of Destruction is the only thing that could be issued, not a rebuildable salvage title. Why the hell do they care how its titled, especially since I'm taking posession of the car? Either way, its still uninsurable and legally undrivable until I get it fixed. And if I get the car back and spend my money fixing it professionally and it passes a state motor vehicle inspection, what business is it of theirs? Yes, they aquiesced, but only after we filed a complaint with the national office. What happens to people who don't fight and people who don't visit the Department of Motor Vehicles to find out for themselves?

As for your bumper cover, Brian, most times I try to engage the customer and ask them about prior damage.  That bumper cover was cut only because of the scuff in the textured area, which made it unrepairable.  The estimator was trying to write a complete estimate when he saw that, but... he should have had you there while he wrote it so you could point out things like the fact that was a prior spot of damage.

197045[/snapback]

That's the thing. The girl who received my car made specific mention of my dashboard panel coming unglued and a loose piece of windshield molding on the passenger side in reference to that being 'prior damage' as if I were really expecting them to fix it. Nothing else, though.

Bill, I hope you and everyone else reading this understands that my anger here comes from a true love of my car and frustration at the ever-changing story and outright lies I keep hearing from Progressive combined with all these little events and "should've"s slipping through the cracks. Again, a straight-forward resolution as I had described would've been met with little resistance from me because I do understand its all about the money. But I hate the feeling that an ol'-fashioned country tool shed consumer ass-f@#king is looming behind me and I intend to avoid it.

[Guest YellowJacket894]

Fly, if you're interested, I found a new fender for the Aurora.

New Fender

It's around three-hundred and seventy bucks or so with shipping, so I suppose it's a little cheaper than getting it from GM.

I hope you can get your car going again.

Edited September 23, 2006 by YellowJacket894

[ocnblu]

We never let a totalled car go to a yard without allowing the customer to retrieve their personal effects. That's just rude. Most customers come in to get their stuff within a day of hearing from their insurance company about the disposition of their car.

Insurance companies up here don't try to pretentiously direct a total loss customer to a dealership or to a buying service that I know of, of course that would most likely happen after my interaction with the customer is over. The insurance company usually allows the customer to drive the rental for a reasonable number of days until they can find another car on their own, and I've never heard a customer complain about that aspect of the total loss experience.

It is rare that a customer has such a desire to hold onto a total loss vehicle. That's certainly your choice, and I cannot blame you for feeling the way you do over the handling of this loss by Progressive.

Here in PA, there are many hurdles (paperwork, verification photos, etc.) in the way of people who want to obtain a Reconstructed Title, it takes weeks, even months, to get an answer from the state, and in the meantime, the car is not legal to drive. For that reason, we always discourage a customer from attempting it.

I don't pretend to know the process in Florida. I hope you can get your Aurora repaired soon and back on the road. She's a honey.

[Camino LS6]

Fly, I assume by your latest responses that this is a done deal. What did they say about the camera?

I've fought with Insurance companies after being hit on a number of occasions and won each time though no total losses were involved. Therefore, I've been conditioned to be in "battle mode" when I deal with them. No car of mine will ever be in their possession until the matter is resolved to my satisfaction and I always take the car to a shop of my choice, not theirs.

[razoredge]

Now hold on just a f@#king second...................I wasnt paying attention to this thread and I am sorry now. I didnt figure this was what your update was all about. i just figured it was a screw job on repair.

You file with the attorney general pronto

you file with the better business bureau

you file a complaint with DMV

you refuse any deal and demand the car home

I know its home

That car is your car, before, during and after the accident, it is your personal property. You only sent it for an estimate. It was driven in and not even towed. It does not become the property of the seconds partys insurance company because you simply dropped it off for an estimate.

The estimate could have and should have been done right in your own driveway.

That damage is laughable. That fender is even repairable if the need existed, which it clearly does not. It was barely moved out of alinement with the hood. No air bags were deployed.

Holy $h!...... ......Im on my way to Florida right now and Im owning some ass !

Have I ever mentioned I hate the insurance industry ?

I went through something similar that an adjuster wanted to do way back in 80 to my Alpine, we had it out right in their "garage". They thought they were going to get my car in a room alone................."f@#k no pal, thats my car and I go where my car goes, you wanna try that with my girlfriend ?"

They were going to try to total it, because face it, it was 17 years old and according to "the book" only worth ? $300. But theres a sad truth to that "Mr Insurance asshhole look deeply into my eyes". "Its my car and I was driving it and it was in excellent condition and its a classic and you cant put me in anything comparable for less than 6000 dollars.............Got it ?" Now write me an estimate for the repair and repaint and Ill be on my way.............its MY f@#king car..........not yours!" "Your drunk client rearended me and must give me back what they took away and be damn glad thats all Im asking for"

I began learning estimates for a while and we never cut pieces up or even removed them to do estimates. You can tell by looking and experience what needs replacement. Anything missed that the body shop finds can go in a supplement but thats rare. Usually you give benefit of the doubt on estimate. This was just last fall and we did estimates of far worse damage for less money and only two vehicals were totaled. An old Toyota becasue the air bags went off, and a new Van that was broad sided. We had to work very hard to try to total the vehical and it still did not make it. That thing was bad, I couldnt believe they would fix it, the owners did not want it. Somewhere out there today that thing is fixed and being drivin.

Non the less bumper covers are not very repairable or even repaintable. Still they dont need to be cut to "figure it out".

They have no right damageing your title over that minor damage to a perfectly good automobile and it is a rare classic whether they like it or not. Were not talking Ford Taurus here and that damage shouldnt even total a Taurus.

Youve already volunteered too much and accepted too much. You just simply should have said "No, unacceptable, Ill be there to pick up MY car in one hour, it better be intact and ready to go. I bet they even scraped your registration and inspection stickers didnt they ?

Never, ever leave an automobile alone with strangers, and never ever with third party insurance personal, especially with personal property inside.

I pitty the more relaxed people that take their cars to "professionals" in good faith. The auto repair / insurance industry are only out corrupted by our very own government. So coming in second in trustworthyness to the Federal Bureaucracy should set off red flags and completely bypass the yellow.

Im going to the shop to work on the Vaporizer

[76ChevyTrucker]

Hey Fly, I reiterate, I do own a .30-06, I also own a fair collection of ballistic-tipped .30-06 rounds. Would you like to get your adjusters tag number and vehicle description?

[knightfan26917]

Holy crap, Fly.....

Very sorry .

Cort:33swm."Mr MC" / "Mr Road Trip".pig valve.pacemaker

MC:family.IL.guide.future = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort/

Models.HO = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort/trainroom.html

"I can’t take anymore" ... 3rd Eye Blind ... 'How's It Going To Be'

[Flybrian]

As an update, this is being fought. Details forthcoming in a few days.

[76ChevyTrucker]

Good to hear about that Fly. Fight it, Fight it as hard as you financially can.

[76ChevyTrucker]

All right, lemme go unlock the gun case and take care of this problem.

[Flybrian]

I'm glad to have good-natured and well-armed support here.

[Camino LS6]

Keep us posted Fly, I want to know how this turns out.

[Flybrian]

Today, I recieved copies of the paperwork I needed to sign and a copy of the estimate. I'll scan and post this evening, but the grand total of the estime - even with the inflated $1100 pricetag for the fender - is just under 80% of the car's value (4100 x .80 = $3280 est value vs. their $3159 estimate total).

I'll have the rental car for the duration of this mediation, I insisted on as much. My headlamp should be arriving today or tomorrow; I just want the car legally roadable 'just in case' and to minimize rain leakage into the wiring.

[Camino LS6]

Today, I recieved copies of the paperwork I needed to sign and a copy of the estimate. I'll scan and post this evening, but the grand total of the estime - even with the inflated $1100 pricetag for the fender - is just under 80% of the car's value (4100 x .80 = $3280 est value vs. their $3159 estimate total).

I'll have the rental car for the duration of this mediation, I insisted on as much. My headlamp should be arriving today or tomorrow; I just want the car legally roadable 'just in case' and to minimize rain leakage into the wiring.

198857[/snapback]

Tell them you'll take the check, and have the car repaired yourself without a salvage brand on the title. And get them to replace your camera!

[capriceman]

All right, lemme go unlock the gun case and take care of this problem.

198549[/snapback]

haha Well go get them together Hmm.. What gun to choose out of my Favs. My Custom M82 with wooden stock. and about a 12k Swarovski scope. Or just my plain 300 BAR Nikkon scope.

Or if you want me to ruin his day. find me a location where a have at least 20 seconds to scope his car coming down the freeway and can be more than 300 yards away. and Wow. Thats odd the guy had a double Blow out and totaled his Camry.

But Keep fighting Fly. And try to avoid wacky drivers.

[ocnblu]

I hope this turns out well, Fly. I'd still like to see your estimate then when you get a chance.

[razoredge]

OK Fly, so whats going on with the camera and title.

You tell them to keep their lips off that title, that car was not totaled or even damaged into unsafe condition. Even if you fix the car and could care less about its resale, if they total your title, they are still branding your cars as something it is not. They are also creating a very large amount of work on your behalf that you will never recieve pay from, just by simply being a bunch of dicks. For example, take a look at your effort thus far, now think about how much per hour your average law..yer expects for any effort regardless of outcome. Just wait till you have to do battle with DMV over that destroyed title. I dont know about you but when someone elses mess creates alot of work for me that I dont get paid for I tend to get a bit agro.

"I want clean title or I'm going to sue you!" and throw the before accident and before estimate photos in thier face................

This things got me so aggravated.............friggin Toyota drivers !...............

So ya wanna hit an Oldsmobile do ya ?

Talk about irony, put us out of business and then polish off the few that remain on the roads.

[Cory Wolfe]

Good luck Fly... Hope all that is deserved happens.

[Mr.Krinkle]

thats pretty hard luck. also great to see you had pictures with the time stamps

sounds like somebody wanted to part it out for themselves.

always remember to demand to speak with a supervisor

if someone starts giving you lip.

i had one semi-bad, actually just difficult time with someones insurance co.

wound up getting the check x-pressed over night. good luck with all that.

[aaaantoine]

I have learned an invaluable lesson from this thread...

Never get into a car accident.

Fly, you remember my family lost an Oldsmobile earlier this year. Let's not allow another to be taken away.

[ToniCipriani]

Wrong. It's never get into a car accident in North America. It's just the bloody insurance companies.