First Thing I'd Cut

[Guest buickman]

The General Motors Standards for Excellence program gives dealers the opportunity to meet sales and service criteria after having ponied up an initial investment and, upon achievement of said goals, receive back tens, or hundreds, of thousands of dollars quarterly from GM. Independent contractors hired by the factory visit dealers under the guise of "SFE Coordinators". In essence, these individuals really perform the work that should be done by district managers anyway, namely informing and consulting franchisees on their operations. Having these coordinators is truly an exercise in duplicity. In fact, the entire program was ill-conceived from the beginning. Targets were routinely adjusted so dealers would hit the mark and become excited (addicted) about the chance to earn additional income. In reality, the factory simply added another hook by which to yank the retail operators.

The very first thing GM needs to do in this day of capital conservation is to immediately eliminate this very expensive endeavor. Maybe if the management at GM exercised fiscal restraint, we wouldn't have to sacrifice GMAC (burning the furniture to have heat), an asset worth $24 per share being spun to ABSOLUETLY NO BENEFIT of the shareholders (you can bet the bankers ie. Goldman Sachs & Merrill Lynch will get their share, as will the lawyers. Heard of any impending lawsuits, ie. Deplhi?).

As GM does occasionally make a good decision, like extending the powertrain warranty, they should remain steadfastly focused on the purpose for which they are employed, rather than acting like the blind cat who just caught the dead mouse.

SFE needs to go, the Audit firm (Deloitte) needs to be rotated, and Marketing (LaNeve) should be forever barred from advertising price, payment, or rebate (no more idiots in red suits please!). The motto should be "impress", not "distress".

Buickman

PS

Rumor has it that our "friend", Mr Pete Gerosa, recently retired mentor of our incompetent leader of VSSM, has accepted a position with the Serra dealer organization. Word is that Pete is in charge of mergers and acquisitions, a proper place for the guy as he should be well aware of where the weakest dealers are. God knows he is responsible for destroying so many of them. (truth hurts a little Pete huh?)

Edited September 13, 2006 by buickman

[Croc]

I'd cut Buickman.

[Cory Wolfe]

I'd cut Buickman.

192760[/snapback]

Yes, would be pure enjoyment.

[fbodfather]

I'd cut Buickman.

192760[/snapback]

I'll second that!

[Cadillacfan]

I third that. I also nominate Buickman as the new official "C&G troll/post whore" (Sorry NOS)

[Northstar]

The first thing GM should cut are dealers who can't seem to sell any products because they hire lazy salesman. I noticed plenty of times when I was actually out on the lot (which wasn't much, most of the time I was detailing and not looking for a car that needed a wash) that there were customers looking at cars, and the salesmen had to have seen them, yet they just stood there talking to each other. Maybe that's why sales have fallen off so much there in the last few years.

[Croc]

ok, I'll admit, that was reaching.....

192812[/snapback]

yea so reach in and pull that worthless post out.

im disappointed reg, especially after the thread dedicated to deb's buttocks.

[regfootball]

yea so reach in and pull that worthless post out.

im disappointed reg, especially after the thread dedicated to deb's buttocks.

192824[/snapback]

the 1st post is too...tho.....

[Satty]

[FAPTurbo]

192840[/snapback]

[Satty]

[FAPTurbo]

yea so reach in and pull that worthless post out.

im disappointed reg, especially after the thread dedicated to deb's buttocks.

192824[/snapback]

I never saw that post...

... so he did he say her butt looked like two stray bulldogs in a sack or something?

[Mr.Krinkle]

killian is lying to you

[razoredge]

Did any of you, that could comprehend his post, even read it ? I realize a few of the trolls with nothing to say couldnt but a few of you could.............if you read it.

This is an area that this poster feels is dead weight. Far more thoughtful than any posts Ive seen made by most of the above smart fellows.

I do agree that there are some advertizing problems. The Pontiac commercial shown all season on SPEED during the GrandAm series is pathatic. It could have been so much better done in the first place and then it gets really bad when they start selling the price. The Solstice commercial also sucks.

N* - that is not the case around here at any of the GM dealers. Very attentive, though sometimes lacking in the necessary education on the product. Part of the above mentioned failure of such and such a program ? ah..............yea !

[Guest buickman]

Did any of you, that could comprehend his post, even read it ? I realize a few of the trolls with nothing to say couldnt but a few of you could.............if you read it.

This is an area that this poster feels is dead weight. Far more thoughtful than any posts Ive seen made by most of the above smart fellows.

I do agree that there are some advertizing problems. The Pontiac commercial shown all season on SPEED during the GrandAm series is pathatic. It could have been so much better done in the first place and then it gets really bad when they start selling the price. The Solstice commercial also sucks.

N* - that is not the case around here at any of the GM dealers. Very attentive, though sometimes lacking in the necessary education on the product. Part of the above mentioned failure of such and such a program ? ah..............yea !

193041[/snapback]

Thanks, I was beginning to wonder...

[gtjeff]

The General Motors Standards for Excellence program gives dealers the opportunity to meet sales and service criteria after having ponied up an initial investment and, upon achievement of said goals, receive back tens, or hundreds, of thousands of dollars quarterly from GM. Independent contractors hired by the factory visit dealers under the guise of "SFE Coordinators".

I work as a csi person for a multi-franchise dealer group and happen to be on one of these sfe committees. You have to give GM credit, they understand the importance of customer satisfaction. None of the other manufacturers are putting this kind of money on the table to help improve csi. What motivates a dealer, money.

The SFE coordinators work for Maritz Research, a company which specializes in automotive research and has the contract to do sales and service surveys for GM.

[Guest buickman]

I work as a csi person for a multi-franchise dealer group and happen to be on one of these sfe committees. You have to give GM credit, they understand the importance of customer satisfaction. None of the other manufacturers are putting this kind of money on the table to help improve csi. What motivates a dealer, money.

The SFE coordinators work for Maritz Research, a company which specializes in automotive research and has the contract to do sales and service surveys for GM.

193136[/snapback]

Welcome aboard, and thanks for commenting.

Any good dealer understands CSI. Again, I state that SFE is redundant. A competent district rep would already have his/her dealers achieving improvements (although these days they are busy with consensus, reconsensus, and the now common re-reconsensus for products whose best accessories and equipment most likely will be on constraint). Ford had it's similar "Blue Evil" program and when it ended, dealers had to scramble to cover their lost revenue. It got so bad for them toward the end that Ford controlled much of the individual dealer marketing. Look where it got them. My point is that it is very wasteful and GM doesn't have money to waste. Auto manufacturers should have learned long ago that they have NO BUSINESS in retail, they only screw it up and take their focus away from building desirable cars and trucks.

Buickman

the voice in the wilderness

PS

It's amazing to read the responses at GeneralWatch to the newsletter about Gerosa. Even I am surprised to hear how many can't stand the guy and are very glad he's gone.

Edited September 14, 2006 by buickman

[CARBIZ]

You know, I can't agree about the manufacturers staying out of the retail business. Due to the nature of anti-competition laws, this whole issue about "dealer may sell for less" pits dealer against dealer, pisses off the consumer and generally erodes consumer confidence in the car purchase process.

There is enough competition in this business between the major players, without adding the additional layer of dealers within brands slitting each other's throats.

Unfortunately, from my meager understanding of the law, the only way the manufacturer can dictate prices is by owning the retail end of things. It serves no purpose to have commissioned sales people stabbing each other in the back, playing BS games like "destroy the price," etc. just to satisfy archaic retail sales laws.

Toyota already tried to set a fixed price on the internet a couple years back (here in Canada) and were sued by a consumer group, who complained they couldn't get a better deal from any of the dealers on the west coast because the dealers wouldn't sell directly to them.

90% of the consumers HATE the negotiating practice, plain and simple. It would be FAR better to have sales consultants actually be real CONSULTANTS and to have the prices set by the manufacturer, who has already researched the market and can better guess what the market price of the vehicle should be anyway

I understand the argument that the manufacturer shouldn't be diverting attention from manufacturing vehicles, but how does that automatically disqualify them from being ABLE to direct how they are sold? Hell, they could hire you, right Buickman?

[Mr.Krinkle]

I do agree that there are some advertizing problems. The Pontiac commercial shown all season on SPEED during the GrandAm series is pathatic. It could have been so much better done in the first place and then it gets really bad when they start selling the price. The Solstice commercial also sucks.

N* - that is not the case around here at any of the GM dealers. Very attentive, though sometimes lacking in the necessary education on the product. Part of the above mentioned failure of such and such a program ? ah..............yea !

193041[/snapback]

it all depends on the market. commercials are tailored. the spanish speaking pontiac commercials are fantastic. and no, not the one from kimmel.

i was watching the world cup on the spanish station so i could here the guy yel gooooooooooooooooooooool when a solstice commercial came on.

this really hot girl was groping this guy standing next toi his solstice, or what looked like groping in reality just reaching for his keys so she could drive.

i wouldnt take marketing lessons from the guy who sells buicks in detroit.

or from a guy who bitches every chance he gets about things he knows not. but wont give up the ghost.

...or from someone with a newsletter that preaches his good word. and then uses testimonials to prove his point. this is not a guy with ideas, its a guy you see on tv at 2 am brainwashing people hwking cheap piece of crap that you knwo wont work but they make such a good presentation you cant help but listen.

but i wouldnt pick up that phone ill tell ya what.

[regfootball]

You know, I can't agree about the manufacturers staying out of the retail business.  Due to the nature of anti-competition laws, this whole issue about "dealer may sell for less" pits dealer against dealer, pisses off the consumer and generally erodes consumer confidence in the car purchase process.

  There is enough competition in this business between the major players, without adding the additional layer of dealers within brands slitting each other's throats.

  Unfortunately, from my meager understanding of the law, the only way the manufacturer can dictate prices is by owning the retail end of things.  It serves no purpose to have commissioned sales people stabbing each other in the back, playing BS games like "destroy the price," etc. just to satisfy archaic retail sales laws.

..............

  90% of the consumers HATE the negotiating practice, plain and simple.  It would be FAR better to have sales consultants actually be real CONSULTANTS and to have the prices set by the manufacturer, who has already researched the market and can better guess what the market price of the vehicle should be anyway

  I understand the argument that the manufacturer shouldn't be diverting attention from manufacturing vehicles, but how does that automatically disqualify them from being ABLE to direct how they are sold?  Hell, they could hire you, right Buickman?

193315[/snapback]

^

[Guest buickman]

it all depends on the market.  commercials are tailored.  the spanish speaking pontiac commercials are fantastic.  and no, not the one from kimmel.

i was watching the world cup on the spanish station so i could here the guy yel gooooooooooooooooooooool when a solstice commercial came on.

this really hot girl was groping this guy standing next toi his solstice,  or what looked like groping in reality just reaching for his keys so she could drive.

i wouldnt take marketing lessons from the guy who sells buicks in detroit. 

or from a guy who bitches every chance he gets about things he knows not.  but wont give up the ghost.

...or from someone with a newsletter that preaches his good word.  and then uses testimonials to prove his point.  this is not a guy with ideas, its a guy you see on tv at 2 am  brainwashing people hwking cheap piece of crap that you knwo wont work but they make such a good presentation you cant help but listen.

but i wouldnt pick up that phone ill tell ya what.

193335[/snapback]

Sir,

It's Flint, thank you. Belittle me if you so choose, but layoff Buicks, they're fine pieces of machinery.

Buickman

[Mr.Krinkle]

let me be clear, i wasnt disparaging buicks. i also think they are fine automobiles.

if we were in munich id say something like: Seines wie verkauf bms in München.

i have no doubt youre a fine salesman and move plenty of product. but you are

still hometeam and although i am reminded of a line from Grosse Point Blank when martins back home in michigan and says to his old girlfriend as shes getting into the bmw doesnt anybody buy American anymore... thats got to skew your perception to some degree. i dont necessarily believe that success in Flint

would translate to national success.

[Guest buickman]

Although winning the Heisman doesn't guarantee Super Bowl MVP, it's hard to argue with success. If you want to win, go with a winner. Show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser.

Edited September 15, 2006 by buickman

[Chicagoland]

First thing? I'd buy out Buickman's dealership and add Pontiac and GMC into it, and hand over to a forward thinking manager. Fire Buickman, and then sue for the copyrights to his screenname

[Cory Wolfe]

First thing? I'd buy out Buickman's dealership and add Pontiac and GMC into it, and hand over to a forward thinking manager. Fire Buickman, and then sue for the copyrights to his screenname

193599[/snapback]

Sounds like fun.

[ellives]

Although winning the Heisman doesn't guarantee Super Bowl MVP, it's hard to argue with success. If you want to win, go with a winner. Show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser.

193519[/snapback]

This has GOT To be the stupidest comment I've seen you make in a long time.

Let's take this:

If you want to win, go with a winner.

This is precisely the mentality of most Toyota buyers today. Based on this sentence we should all buy Toyota.

And how about this:

Show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser.

No one can be a winner every time. Being a gracious (preumably what you would call "good") loser does not mean you're a loser. It means you lost fair and square THIS time. Not every time.

Would you teach this sentiment to your kids? I hope not.

[Guest buickman]

This has GOT To be the stupidest comment I've seen you make in a long time.

Let's take this:

No one can be a winner every time. Being a gracious (preumably what you would call "good") loser does not mean you're a loser. It means you lost fair and square THIS time. Not every time.

Would you teach this sentiment to your kids? I hope not.

194187[/snapback]

A twenty year losing streak is hardly what I'd call gracious.

[zhawk]

First thing I'd cut is Buickman's salary.

He seems unable to understand that GM is on a road to recovery and that things are getting better. Oh yeah, now I remember, GM can't possibly save itself without his PLAN. yeah right.

But being a good snake oil salesman, Buickman will continue to tell us all how he knows how to fix everything wrong with GM, and possibly the world next.

Dude, you ever for just a minute think that you could be wrong?

[Guest buickman]

First thing I'd cut is Buickman's salary.

He seems unable to understand that GM is on a road to recovery and that things are getting better. Oh yeah, now I remember, GM can't possibly save itself without his PLAN. yeah right.

But being a good snake oil salesman, Buickman will continue to tell us all how he knows how to fix everything wrong with GM, and possibly the world next.

Dude, you ever for just a minute think that you could be wrong?

194228[/snapback]

Sure and your boy Rick is right losing $50,000,000,000 in shareholder value and cutting 150,000 employees, taking benefits from retirees, pushing debt deep into junk, closing Olds, selling GMAC (to NO BENEFIT to stockholders), increasing long term debt into the hundreds of BILLIONS. Yeah, he's got a turnaround going allright, him and his bankruptcy proof pension!

Buickman

the voice in the wilderness

[Northstar]

Sure and your boy Rick is right losing $50,000,000,000 in shareholder value and cutting 150,000 employees, taking benefits from retirees, pushing debt deep into junk, closing Olds, selling GMAC (to NO BENEFIT to stockholders), increasing long term debt into the hundreds of BILLIONS. Yeah, he's got a turnaround going allright, him and his bankruptcy proof pension!

Buickman

the voice in the wilderness

194260[/snapback]

They didn't cut 150,000 employees.... they only employee about 325,000, and they didn't cut half of them.

And how do you know what their long term debt is? Do you have access to internal accounting documents? Hundreds of billions is not believable.

Get some facts, then maybe I'll give you a slight bit of credit when you post.

[Guest buickman]

They didn't cut 150,000 employees.... they only employee about 325,000, and they didn't cut half of them.

And how do you know what their long term debt is? Do you have access to internal accounting documents? Hundreds of billions is not believable.

Get some facts, then maybe I'll give you a slight bit of credit when you post.

194274[/snapback]

Hell, 70,000 GM jobs are gone in Flint alone. As to long term debt, read an annual report dude.

[ShadowDog]

I see the armchair warrior is stacking his soapboxes again. I thought I set him on ignore status, but I must have fouled up. In this case, he brings up a valid point:

- There are programs within GM that are forced upon the dealers that make little sense. I'm not going to get into the cost issue, but will focus on what ultimately translates into a cost issue based on the perception of the customer.

Who has a view on the customer satisfaction survey they would like to share? Mine is that it serves to do little to benefit anyone but the dealer if they are all handled the way I've experienced. The consumer gets their car back and soon receives a phone call to inform them of a survey that will be arriving in the mail. They are informed that this survey affects the future of the dealership by GM in a negative fashion if anything less than 100% satisfaction is reported by the consumer. By how I read it, the consumer is 'coached' to respond positively, regardless of the service they have received, whether poor or otherwise.

How does this benefit a dealership, and ultimately GM, when a consumer is smart enough to recognize that the survey doesn't mean anything much when the dealership is only trying to 'cheat' the system for their benefit?

Buickman speaks on a subject that means absolutely nothing to the general consumer. Things like this survey do affect the perception of the company by the customers; the people who really count in the end.

The subject may seem important from an operational level; however, the bread and butter only see what happens where they bought their car. Dealers speak negatively of these programs and weisel their way through them to serve a purpose for them for the best possible outcome. I can recognize this as a problem with the dealer, not with GM.

[razoredge]

Well, what do ya know a response that actually had something to do with the topic. Thanks Shadowdog.

However regardless of who this program effects or how, the point I found most interesting is that GM pays outside sources to do something that regional managers should be doing anyhow. We all know theres way to much of this going on throughout our country. Many people employed to perform irrelevent function, sucking money out of corporations or governments, simply because, as mountain climbers have always said "because its there".

Ive delt with outside "agencys" as well as district managers and have never been impressed.

[Guest buickman]

Well, what do ya know a response that actually had something to do with the topic. Thanks Shadowdog.

However regardless of who this program effects or how, the point I found most interesting is that GM pays outside sources to do something that regional managers should be doing anyhow. We all know theres way to much of this going on throughout our country. Many people employed to perform irrelevent function, sucking money out of corporations or governments, simply because, as mountain climbers have always said "because its there".

Ive delt with outside "agencys" as well as district managers and have never been impressed.

194375[/snapback]

There is plenty more waste easily identified, some of stupid beyond belief. Many dealers though, fearing retribution, won't say how they feel. Me, I'm well past caring about GM management's opinions or their feeble attempts to intimidate me.

Buickman

the voice in the wilderness

[Cory Wolfe]

The first thing Buickman needs to cut is his ego.

Anywho... What was that in the next post?

Oh that's right... It was just the wind again. Sort of like the voice of the wilderness. Ironic.

Edited September 18, 2006 by blackviper8891

[razoredge]

The first thing Buickman needs to cut is his ego.

194461[/snapback]

Straight from the horses.................

[Guest YellowJacket894]

Buickman brands himself as "The voice in the wilderness." And like a voice in the wilderness, the only thing that comes out of his mouth is "hoo hoo hoooo hooo-eee hooo-eee hooo." And soon after he throws a big handful of $h! right in your face.

I wish Buickman was Emo so he would cut himself.

[Northstar]

Hell, 70,000 GM jobs are gone in Flint alone. As to long term debt, read an annual report dude.

194278[/snapback]

Maybe you read an annual report, but didn't like the fact that it said long-term automotive debt is $15B, so made up some BS about it being "hundreds of billions." GMAC is in the hundreds of millions.

[carstar]

like i said before: how about GM cut 70% of it's focus group?

[Guest buickman]

Maybe you read an annual report, but didn't like the fact that it said long-term automotive debt is $15B, so made up some BS about it being "hundreds of billions." GMAC is in the hundreds of millions.

194506[/snapback]

I would highly recommend a class in remedial reading. My 6 year old's teacher is available on a case by case basis.

The Voice

[Guest buickman]

like i said before: how about GM cut 70% of it's focus group?

194509[/snapback]

Excellent idea, many more should be identified forthwith.

That Voice Again

PS

we have the makings of a plan here, unlike "Red Ink Rick" whose only "plan" is self-preservation by greasing the bankers, lawyers, and accountants.

Edited September 18, 2006 by buickman

[Northstar]

I would highly recommend a class in remedial reading. My 6 year old's teacher is available on a case by case basis.

The Voice

194562[/snapback]

You're the one that doesn't have the facts straight. It says in GM's annual report that there long term automotive debt is $15B. I don't see what's so hard to understand unless you're saying they're making up false numbers.

[Guest buickman]

You're the one that doesn't have the facts straight. It says in GM's annual report that there long term automotive debt is $15B. I don't see what's so hard to understand unless you're saying they're making up false numbers.

194565[/snapback]

Heard of the SEC? I recommend you do some further investigation my friend.

Mr. Vociferous

[Northstar]

Heard of the SEC? I recommend you do some further investigation my friend.

Mr. Vociferous

194568[/snapback]

From the filing:

Long-term debt payable beyond one year at December 31, 2005 includes scheduled maturities as follows: 2007 — $1 billion; 2008 — $1.9 billion; 2009 — $0.4 billion; 2010 — $0.2 billion

And this adds up to hundreds of billions how?

[The O.C.]

Sir,

layoff Buicks, they're fine pieces of machinery.

Buickman

193413[/snapback]

Are you kidding me?

Says who?

The only Buick that can truly be considered a "fine piece of machinery" (if you are comparing Buicks to their contemporary competition) is the upcoming Enclave.

LaCrosse? Nah

Lucerne? Comes closest but misses the mark on too many fronts

Rendezvous, Rainer, Terraza? All perfect examples of the "old" GM

[razoredge]

Are you kidding me?

Says who?

The only Buick that can truly be considered a "fine piece of machinery" (if you are comparing Buicks to their contemporary competition) is the upcoming Enclave.

LaCrosse?  Nah

Lucerne?  Comes closest but misses the mark on too many fronts

Rendezvous, Rainer, Terraza?  All perfect examples of the "old" GM

195964[/snapback]

No, no one would want to kid "OC", hes not even open to opinions.

Well you usually get back what you invest in.........and GM has not invested in Buick. All money has gone to Cadillac and saturn and Im sure the "OC" would much rather drive an aura than a Lucerne................because....?......Epilson is new and G is "old" ? Brilliant, really brilliant ! Well at least its got a DOHC high this and that gas sucking V6.................ey ?

[The O.C.]

No, no one would want to kid "OC", hes not even open to opinions.

Well you usually get back what you invest in.........and GM has not invested in Buick. All money has gone to Cadillac and saturn and Im sure the "OC" would much rather drive an aura than a Lucerne................because....?......Epilson is new and G is "old" ? Brilliant, really brilliant ! Well at least its got a DOHC high this and that gas sucking V6.................ey ?

196015[/snapback]

Actually neither would get my vote compared to their contemporary competition. MAYBE a CXS Lucerne.....because there's not alot of big, old-fashioned (re...comfy, large, full-size sedan) type cars out there....

But when I think what I would have to choose from in the marketplace for the same $38K as a loaded CXS, that's when Buick suffers in comparison.

[Guest buickman]

It's competitive and a fine automobile. Personally, I'd liked to see full width tail lamps and more toothiness upfront, but it's a start.

Buickman

[Flybrian]

But when I think what I would have to choose from in the marketplace for the same $38K as a loaded CXS, that's when Buick suffers in comparison.

199569[/snapback]

Compare actual transaction prices and the Lucerne is a well-engineered steal.

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

The first thing I'd cut from Buick are all CX and CXL trim levels on all cars, though I'd add velour and front split bench seats as standards (and leather and/or buckets no-cost options, vice-versa). I agree, the only Buick right now that's really gold-standard is Enclave-the only way I'd ever get a LaCrosse is if I wanted a mid-size car with a bench seat-otherwise that car comes up short in pretty much every possible area-not a horrible car, but not great either. Lucerne just looks un-Buick-like (though I love that new lavender-like Light Quartz Metallic color), Rendezvous, Rainier, and Terraza need to die sooner, and more styling and products/wider-variety of products can't come soon enough.