Five years later

[Camino LS6]

And it still horrifies.

And the beasts still plot against us.

Never forget.

[mustang84]

Damn straight.

Things are moving progressing at the site. Here are the images released a few days ago of the final design for the new WTC, to be completed by 2012. Three of the towers are over 1,000 feet tall.

[the_yellow_dart]

Not to play devil's advocate, but doesn't building towers there sound like a bad idea to anyone else?

Isn't that kind of an obvious terrorist target???

[Camino LS6]

Not to play devil's advocate, but doesn't building towers there sound like a bad idea to anyone else?

Isn't that kind of an obvious terrorist target???

192050[/snapback]

No.

The alternative is craven cowardice.

Building the tallest building in the world on this spot is the best response.

A collective "up-yours" to Al Queda.

[the_yellow_dart]

No.

The alternative is craven cowardice.

Building the tallest building in the world on this spot is the best response.

A collective "up-yours" to Al Queda.

192051[/snapback]

Cowardice?

Or intelligence?

This is like being shot, and then proceeding to give the gunman the finger. It just doesn't seem very smart to me.

[Camino LS6]

I hope I always remember to give the gunman the finger.

[the_yellow_dart]

Oh - and just to clarify. I'm only saying this because Osama is (probably?) still alive. If he was dead, I would totally agree with you.

Don't give the gunman the finger. Kill him first, then give all his buddies the finger.

Edited September 11, 2006 by the_yellow_dart

[Chazman]

Never forget.

[Mr.Krinkle]

No.

The alternative is craven cowardice.

Building the tallest building in the world on this spot is the best response.

A collective "up-yours" to Al Queda.

192051[/snapback]

right. and when you look from the n.e. it will look like the middle finger pointing straight up.

to all those that fell

and those who carry on.

never forget

[usonia]

I don't like these 'replacement' buildings at all. To be fair, I didn't especially like the design of the twin towers either, but they did come to be an immediately recognized symbol of the skyline of New York.

When I see this group of buildings, it's just another group of shiny glass skyscrapers to me. There isn't anything special about them. I think they missed a unique opportunity to design something significant, although having no talent in architecture, I can't honestly say what I think it should have been.

[CSpec]

The design is certainly better than the preliminary drawings, but it still isn't amazing.

[C.H.U.D.]

Looks like they had a contest at an architect school and these were the winners.

[Drew Dowdell]

Not to play devil's advocate, but doesn't building towers there sound like a bad idea to anyone else?

Isn't that kind of an obvious terrorist target???

192050[/snapback]

They are a symbol of defiance in the face of terrorism.

[loki]

by the pictures... these look like they'll replace the smaller building around where the first ones stood.... hence the memorial in the wooded area...

these new ones will take over what the first ones did, and do it in a better buiding, better built, better material, more efficient...

wether you like the design or not.... eh, it'll be the new skyline about 4 years after they're done

[Camino LS6]

I suspect that the scale of these buildings will give them a presence that a CG image cannot convey.

[trinacriabob]

Here are the images released a few days ago of the final design for the new WTC, to be completed by 2012.  Three of the towers are over 1,000 feet tall.

192042[/snapback]

I think it looks like crap. It's neither cohesive nor well-proportioned. I respect leaving the footprints of the previous towers alone. It will look like a jumbled p.o.s. as you approach the city from the Staten Island ferry or an ocean liner returning to NY.

Whatever.

As far as the event, we can NEVER let our guard down. It was never in our psyche before. Now, I think we live with this in the back of our heads. I am hoping that there is enough in place to keep this from happening on our soil. I hope that others take the steps to keep it from happening on their soil. These are the ultimate cowards...they probably couldn't accomplish anything else of value. Killing people going to work and minding their own business (who aren't even of the demographic you are angry at) is indicative of how weak they really are.

[Cremazie]

Why couldn't they have made less ugly.. why not build the freedom tower as modern day Empire State Bldg?

Edited September 11, 2006 by Cremazie

[FAPTurbo]

Meh. To me they just look like shiny skyscrapers. They really should have been something that stood out. Something that shows the world that you Americans aren't giving up that easy.

Weird thing is... my class started today on 9/11 ... and the time it starts is 9am and the time it ends is 11am... . It's my worst subject too... math.

Bad omen..? I doubt it.

But it did give me pause about the day and its significance. I was watching a documentary about Sept 11th yesterday, and still today those images cause a small tear to well up in the back of my eye...

[Flybrian]

I don't get this height copout crap. America needs to have the world's tallest skyscraper again, not because of 9/11 or defience, but because we're the United States.

Someone dig up Frank Lloyd Wright's mile-high tower plan and get crackin'...

[capriceman]

the only thing i never understood was that the Empire State building 100% American. World Trade Center a mix of workers from all over the world. So was it an attack against the US or the world?

But we shall never forget.

[Cory Wolfe]

The smaller one is kinda cool....

Anyways, ironically, this also happens to be me and Erik's one month anniversary.

[trinacriabob]

I don't get this height copout crap. America needs to have the world's tallest skyscraper again, not because of 9/11 or defience, but because we're the United States.

Someone dig up Frank Lloyd Wright's mile-high tower plan and get crackin'...

192181[/snapback]

The Sears Tower, at 1,454 ft., is taller than either of the WTC towers which rose to 1,350 ft.

Edited September 11, 2006 by trinacriabob

[Mr.Krinkle]

http://www.lowermanhattan.info/constructio...r=0&sort_order=

i wouldnt mind if they just rebuilt them, maybe just clean up the insides.

less steel more concrete...

i gotta say though these are growing on me, towers 2, 3, and 4.

the photobook 1st one on the right is the most current.

the empire st. building is one solid mother f*er. they still use most of the original generators in there and it already took a hit by a plane. (obviously much smaller, lghter, slower flying and less fuel....but even so. some think that construction would have saved more lives and withstood a better chance.

heres to hoping we dont ever find out.

[aaaantoine]

They should focus on the 4-squares building in that design concept... and make it about 500 feet taller.

Also, this redesign proposal is rather interesting:

http://www.memorialcircle.com/

Edited September 11, 2006 by aaaantoine

[CARBIZ]

I think they should build two towers even taller than the WTC just to stick to those jealous bastards.

Sigh.

Unfortunately, the politics of lower Manhattan is even worse than the '60s when the original towers were designed!

And, let's face it, once built, those jealous fantatics would be gunning to knock them down again.

[mustang84]

Freedom Tower is taller than the old WTC by slightly over 400 feet.

As for the design, I like the fact that they're tall and slender with a lot of glass, but I agree with Bob...the whole thing isn't very cohesive. I know Childs did Freedom Tower, but it looks like different architects did the others. They should have based the design of the other three off Freedom Tower instead of giving one diamond roofs and another John Hancock-style cross-bracing. The short guy is the only one that fits in with Freedom Tower.

I also don't get why they are running Fulton and Greenwich Streets back through again. The old WTC was nice that you could walk about without running into traffic and intersections. It seems like it would be more serene for the people in the memorial park to not have streets surrounding them on all four sides.

[razoredge]

A few things from me no one wants to hear, but first

The buildings alone are interesting, together they are an abortion.

Im against skyscrapers period, such a liability, I love the Chrysler building. But someday they will be so deteriorated they will need to come down, now I dont know who has that kind of money but I sure dont want profits from my hard labor going to building something so economically ineffecient. We have American born citizens jobless, living in shacks, or working poor, providing services most are to lame to do for themselves, yet somehow enough capitol can be earned in this country to build these arogant symbols of prosperity. This skyline view of prosperity is not so evident when one simply looks around the corner a bit.

Lowering the population of the country would be more appropriate for me, then we wouldnt need these giant ant hills, nor the shacks.

Now that said, in honor of 9-11, Id like to take the opportunity to ask all immigrants to take what they learned from our country and all their damn babys and go home and straighten out their own damn $h! in their own damn country, like our fathers did !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Finally, I cant believe everyone cant understand why "The World Trade Centers" were hit. What is it that cant be understood? It was an attack against minipulative world trade. What was the address ? 1 Wall Street or something like that. It wasnt an attack against any old American that just happened to be there, it was symbolic against American corporate and government munipulation. That was so apparent to me, within minutes from the time the reality of the whole situation sank in. I'd be ashamed to be one to ask why, thats like running a car out of oil and standing there saying "I just dont understand what happened?"

But yea, Ill never forget............so, get the hell out of my country and to our government and corporations I say "get the hell out of theirs".

Then none of this would have ever happened !

[FAPTurbo]

Economically inefficient? Please. If every business, every office was spread out in a single building, or small multiplex, the amount of space and land would be enormous.

Humans are generally very pragmatic and practical, and if skyscrapers were inefficient, we'd likely not have begun to build them...

And to be honest, telling people to get out of your country is inefficient. Why? Because the overwhelming majority of these people come to your country to work and make an honest buck and therefore drive your economy. Up here in Canada, we rely on immigration to help fuel our economy.

Ok, next point. Our forefathers were immigrants. Unless you, razor are 100 percent, Native American who can trace your roots back to the Sioux, Cree, Cherokee, etc.

Our forefathers came for the same reasons immigrants today do. Because they feel oppressed, cannot find acceptance in society, or they need to work.

And yes these were attacks on Corporate America and America itself, but also the Western World in general. Terrorists loathe the freedoms and advancements our society provides. I find it funny that terrorists use the internet profusely, and at the same time, mock us, when they should be thanking North Americans.

I'll admit Western Society isn't perfect. But it's sure as hell is better than living in some dusty country filled with flea bitten religious autocrats who stone homosexuals and victimize women who have been raped, not to mention NOT having viable infrastructure that keeps the water running and the power on.

Edited September 12, 2006 by Captainbooyah

[daves87rs]

A few things from me no one wants to hear, but first

The buildings alone are interesting, together they are an abortion.

Im against skyscrapers period, such a liability, I love the Chrysler building. But someday they will be so deteriorated they will need to come down, now I dont know who has that kind of money but I sure dont want profits from my hard labor going to building something so economically ineffecient. We have American born citizens jobless, living in shacks, or working poor, providing services most are to lame to do for themselves, yet somehow enough capitol can be earned in this country to build these arogant symbols of prosperity. This skyline view of prosperity is not so evident when one simply looks around the corner a bit.

Lowering the population of the country would be more appropriate for me, then we wouldnt need these giant ant hills, nor the shacks.

Now that said, in honor of 9-11, Id like to take the opportunity to ask all immigrants to take what they learned from our country and all their damn babys and go home and straighten out their own damn $h! in their own damn country, like our fathers did !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Finally, I cant believe everyone cant understand why "The World Trade Centers" were hit. What is it that cant be understood? It was an attack against minipulative world trade. What was the address ? 1 Wall Street or something like that. It wasnt an attack against any old American that just happened to be there, it was symbolic against American corporate and government munipulation. That was so apparent to me, within minutes from the time the reality of the whole situation sank in. I'd be ashamed to be one to ask why, thats like running a car out of oil and standing there saying "I just dont understand what happened?"

But yea, Ill never forget............so, get the hell out of my country and to our government and corporations I say "get the hell out of theirs".

Then none of this would have ever happened !

192268[/snapback]

As far as the WTCs...they were trying to bring our markets down-not world trade.

The way I see it-there is NO reason that we should have been attacked-especially in that way....what a cheap shot...

Though I can understand you- I would have to disagree.

Regardless of where we came from-we all worked together on that day.

You only have to look at the NYFD to understand that.

We will never forget.

[razoredge]

Economically inefficient? Please. If every business, every office was spread out in a single building, or small multiplex, the amount of space and land would be enormous.

Humans are generally very pragmatic and practical, and if skyscrapers were inefficient, we'd likely not have begun to build them...

Well the lower population would take care of your first problem, but for

your second. You obviously have no idea what the construction costs of such an undertaking per square foot are.

Our forefathers were immigrants.

Yea, yea, yea, for everyone whos doesnt want to see it, its the blanket statement. Now heres for a little update. Like they told all of us when we lost our occupations "Things have changed". Our "forefather" came here and sweat and bled to make this countries infrastructure, sweat and bled to make this countries "freedoms", died in war after war, accident after accident.

Today its just a plane ticket away and the works all done for you, heres a drivers licence, heres a check from our Social Security department. How many babies do you have.......oh heres a check from our Social Services Department. Oh your sick........heres a Medicade Card. Plug and play....................but like I said when I opened with my statement

"no one wants to hear it"

Id like to see them fight and die, sweat and bleed for their freedoms, in their own countries like our "forefathers" did here. But as was mentioned earlier in the topic, there is a bit of a cowardly nature abroad. For decades we gave them guns, which they shot off randomly in the air while making odd noises..........that is, when they werent turning them on their own neighbors, woman and children................think about it ?

[capriceman]

The sad thing is we try to help others but yet where hated for some reason. They say it is because we "dont allow there countries to grow superior".

I guess ill never understand.

I tell you on my personal account a Man Killed his entire family then himself since he thought we were there to take over, We were ther to give supplies and over throw there government with figures the village wanted.

I still dont understand Why Since 2 buildings in the US cant shut us down...

[Paolino]

Freedom Tower is taller than the old WTC by slightly over 400 feet.

192266[/snapback]

Don't forget, a good deal of that is the spire.

When I was passing by on Saturday evening, I got my usual "it looks so empty" feeling. But honestly, I don't think it'd look right with another several buildings there.

Being that they are rebuilding in that area, I would have liked it if 2 of the buildings were twin.

I like the memorials they have planned though.

[mustang84]

Don't forget, a good deal of that is the spire.

When I was passing by on Saturday evening, I got my usual "it looks so empty" feeling.  But honestly, I don't think it'd look right with another several buildings there.

Being that they are rebuilding in that area, I would have liked it if 2 of the buildings were twin.

I like the memorials they have planned though.

192300[/snapback]

I thought it was 1,776 feet to the top of the roof, but I just checked now and it looks like you're right. I wonder what the height to the roof is then?

[Sixty8panther]

No.

The alternative is craven cowardice.

Building the tallest building in the world on this spot is the best response.

A collective "up-yours" to Al Queda.

192051[/snapback]

YES!!!

I've said the EXACT same thign since Sept. 12th of 2001.

Freedom is alive & well, (patriot act aside) & the best way

to show it off & flaunt it is to rebuild them bigger & taller!

[Northstar]

Isn't there some building somewhere that's like 2000 feet tall? And the tallest one that's being planned is 1700...

Also, I thought that Chicago was planning a building that was/is taller than the Sears Tower? Regardless, I think we've been showing the terrorists who's boss lately by blowing them the f*ck up.

[Farkas]

The tallest building in the world is Taipei 101 in Taiwan.

It is 1,671 ft (509 m) tall.

From Wikipedia:

At 452 m (1,483 feet) tall, including decorative spires, the Petronas Twin Towers in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, laid claim to replacing the Sears Tower as the tallest building in the world in 1998. Not everyone agreed, and in the ensuing controversy four different categories of "tallest building" were created. Of these, Petronas was the tallest in one category. With the arrival of Taipei 101, the Petronas Towers were surpassed in spire height, and for the first time, the Sears was surpassed in roof height. At its highest point, the Sears Tower's antenna exceeds the Taipei 101's spire in height.

The Sears Tower is the tallest office building in the United States, and it retains the world record when measuring the height from the sidewalk level of the main entrance to the top of the antenna. When completed, the Freedom Tower in New York City may exceed the Sears Tower through its structural but not occupied peak. Burj Dubai, currently under construction in Dubai, will almost certainly surpass the Sears Tower in all height categories in 2008, estimated to have almost twice as many habitable floors (200) as Sears Tower. Within Chicago the planned Fordham Spire may surpass the Sears Tower—although not Burj Dubai—in all height categories in 2009.

Taipei 101:

Edited September 12, 2006 by Farkas

[mustang84]

They're building one in Dubai right now that I think is supposed to be over 2,600 feet tall. Burj Dubai or something like that.

EDIT: Here it is...Burj Dubai, 2,650 feet tall

Edited September 12, 2006 by mustang84

[capriceman]

^ why? do we really need building that tall. I think it may have structual issues 60 years down the line. Somw thing about how stress does weaken the structure.

[Northstar]

Wow, that's amazing.

[Flybrian]

Regardless, skyscrapers look cool. Which is more visually arresting?

Also, they make an impression on your organization. People know the Pan Am Building, the Chrysler Building, the Sears Tower, the Transamerica Building. Who recalls The Oaks by the Woodland Lake II or Ye Olde TownePointe?

[mustang84]

^  why? do we really need building that tall. I think it may have structual issues 60 years down the line. Somw thing about how stress does weaken the structure.

192380[/snapback]

Oh, I'm almost positive this thing is going to have some type of issue down the road. The laborers building this thing have been in the news for the poor working conditions at the site, and honestly, I doubt this building will be a quality finished product. The world has never seen a skyscraper this high before, and it's being built in a country which has begun developing only over the last decade or so. Time will tell, but I don't think time will be on Burj Dubai's side.

[knightfan26917]

Never forget.

I don't think we ever could.....

What a difference 5 years makes, eh? Heh ... my goodness ... can hardly believe it HAS been 5 years. But, it has. And, our world did change that day.

I remember where I was ... and how that day unfolded. Yet, in some ways, a bit more interesting to me is how other events fall into that time sequence, including all that has happened in the 5 years since.

Several examples have been running through my mind all day long, but one that stands out in my mind, particular since Grandparents Day was Sunday, 09/10/2006, is:

Six days before 09/11/2001, we had moved my grandparents from their Elgin home in which they had lived since early summer 1983 to an assisted living facility 1.25 hours west in Mt Morris IL. Now, 5 years later, they are both gone ... and in between their deaths (Gram in October 2002, Gramps in December 2005), I had my 3rd open heart surgery (January 2003).

Time is elusive and surprising ... and loves to play mind tricks on us.

Cort, "Mr MC" / "Mr Road Trip", 32swm/pig valve/pacemaker

MC:family.IL.guide.future = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort/

Models.HO = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort/trainroom.html

"Driving down some cold interstate" ... Alan Jackson ... 'Where Were You When The World Stopped Turning?'

[regfootball]

They're building one in Dubai right now that I think is supposed to be over 2,600 feet tall.  Burj Dubai or something like that.

EDIT: Here it is...Burj Dubai, 2,650 feet tall

192374[/snapback]

like celery stalks into the sky

bundled tubes.

Edited September 12, 2006 by regfootball

[Camino LS6]

Burj Dubai is the ultimate in terrorist bait.

And in the Middle East ,no less.

[CARBIZ]

Captainbooyah, we do NOT need immigration to fuel our economy. That is a myth, plain and simple.

Do we need cheap nannies and house keepers that badly? 25 years ago, all the taxi drivers were "Canadian." Now, they are all from West Africa, Sri Lanka, etc. Is that progress? Women from the Phillipines are indentured for 3-5 years in state-sponsored slavery, so that OUR women can be emancipated and have careers.

If housing prices in Toronto/Vancouver are sky rocketing out of people's reach, is that progress? Why only these two cities? If External Affairs is spending hundreds of millions of dollars bailing out/investigating/supporting the thousands of "Canadians" who get into trouble over seas (read: Lebanon recently), who is footing the bill for that?

Canada is a small country of only 34 million people, yet we spend like we are First World. We cannot compete with the likes of Great Britain, France, etc. on the world stage, yet we pretend we can.

Read "Who Gets In," by Daniel Stoffman. A real eye opener of a book. This man took his Atkinson fellowship and spent 5 years studying the mess that our immigration system is. Ironically, it isn't entirely the Liberals fault - a lot of the mess was created during the Mulroney years when he really opened the flood gates.

Anyway, a little off topic. Thought I would rant a little. I live in downtown Toronto, which is not the same Toronto I lived in 25 years ago and that is NOT good news.

BTW, New York City would have engulfed most of New Jersey, Long Island and lower New YOrk state by now, if not for sky scrapers. Look to LA for the mess urban America would be without the sky scraper/urban density.