TTAC 89: The HateWatch Continues...

[enzl]

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=2164

Farago takes a PR flack's words and twists them into another invective-filled scree...

Is it me, or has Farago become even more hateful as GM's ducks have begun to fall into a row?

Sajeev, your thoughts?

Edited September 4, 2006 by enzl

[CARBIZ]

SIGH. I am all sketchy from partying last night. I should KNOW better than read anything from TTAC. Thanks, Enzl! LOL.

Farago, while GM is at it, why don't they just fax Toyota and Ford ALL of their plans for the 4th quarter and 2007? I mean, why keep up the suspense?

Clearly, this clown knows nothing about running a popsicle stand, let alone one of the largest corporations on the planet!

GM not telling the truth? Who would blame them? Sometimes the public just doesn't have a right to know. Next, he'll want all of Wagoner's emails posted to GM's website.

THAT IS JUST ASININE!!

GM's stock is rising. New products are doing okay. The market over all is soft. Gas prices are easing. I suspect the GMT-900s will start doing a little better. A year ago we were paying $1.30 a litre; now, it is .84. Big difference.

I suppose that will only disappoint TTAC. Frankly, someone should sue them for their name: clearly fraud.

[Camino LS6]

An extensive vocabulary does not automatically translate into writing skill. This becomes abundantly clear when reading Farago's drivel.

[FAPTurbo]

He's at number EIGHTY-NINE?!

Does this guy happen to have a job by any chance?

[Flybrian]

Yeah, let's use the Survivor ad pull as a metaphor for GM lying. Whatever.

[enzl]

  Farago, while GM is at it, why don't they just fax Toyota and Ford ALL of their plans for the 4th quarter and 2007?  I mean, why keep up the suspense?

189136[/snapback]

That's the part of it that bothered me the most. FWIW, the law insists that Officers, Directors & Management of a Public Company have a fiduciary duty to act in accordance with the co.'s best interests...I can't see how giving away product plans or strategy is wise in a market where your competitors can move quicker than you can.

[Northstar]

What a dumbass this guy is. He compares Ford's current state to GM's and thinks that GM is just as bad. Newflash: GM made about $3 billion last quarter before one-time expenses, I'd say they're headed in the right direction.

Also, he needs to get his facts straight. GM had a 8% retail sales jump, not 3.8%.

As I’ve said here before, Wagoner’s failure to articulate a specific, honest, clear and coherent turnaround plan that includes all of GM’s “stakeholders” will be his undoing. Yes, Rabid Rick says he has one, and frequently tells the world that The General’s adherence to this unexpressed timeline proceeds apace. Is it inconceivable that Wagoner’s reluctance to publicly declare his comprehensive recovery strategy reflect his unwillingness to be held to its dictates?

This guy is a complete dumbass! He thinks that because GM hasn't said, "On October 1, 2007 we plan to start productions of vehicles x, y, and z" that they don't have a plan? If he has such proof that there is no plan, why doesn't he reveal his secrets? Obviously, he's making the $h! up just as he claims GM is.

In other words, we know what we’re doing and we sure as Hell don’t have to tell you about it.

If he wasn't being sarcastic, this would have been one part of the article where he was correct. GM sure as hell does NOT have to tell any lunatic journalists like this guy what their plans are. Why? He'd first go out telling everybody about their future plans, then he'd try to sink them before they ever came to life with factless and off-base articles like this one.

[Guest buickman]

The guy is remarkably well spoken and has a unique blend of insight and humor. I enjoy his articles, straightforwardness, and timely information. Carrying the torch can, at times, be a heavy burden, Mr Farago is a big help!

Buickman

[enzl]

The guy is remarkably well spoken and has a unique blend of insight and humor. I enjoy his articles, straightforwardness, and timely information. Carrying the torch can, at times, be a heavy burden, Mr Farago is a big help!

Buickman

189196[/snapback]

Delusional, but accurate.

B-man- the product looks like its getting there, better warm up the VIN etches and Service Agreements!

[Camino LS6]

The guy is remarkably well spoken and has a unique blend of insight and humor. I enjoy his articles, straightforwardness, and timely information. Carrying the torch can, at times, be a heavy burden, Mr Farago is a big help!

Buickman

189196[/snapback]

How much do you pay him?

[Guest buickman]

How much do you pay him?

189211[/snapback]

The truth comes to light, sometimes from unexpected sources. I'll agree GM has seen some improvements, but it's my contention that real long lasting progress will never occur under Wagoner/LaNeve. The best hope I see for GM is Fritz Henderson. The guy is refreshingly honest, to the point, and very sharp. The sooner he takes over, the better.

Buickman

Edited September 4, 2006 by buickman

[Drew Dowdell]

The truth comes to light, sometimes from unexpected sources. I'll agree GM has seen some improvements, but it's my contention that real long lasting progress will never occur under Wagoner/LaNeve. The best hope I see for GM is Fritz Henderson. The guy is refreshingly honest, to the point, and very sharp. The sooner he takes over, the better.

Buickman

189216[/snapback]

and how much is he paying you?

[Camino LS6]

[enzl]

I just don't see how handing the reigns over to another lifer will really matter at this point.

The product execution must be nearly perfect, but at least they appear to have some answers to good questions.

I didn't like the Ghosn push, and change for the sake of change at this point, when most of the heavy lifting has already been done, is inadvisable.

I'd sooner see them slowly edge Wags out with another outsider product guy....give 'em a year's rope, then hang him with it.

The 07/08 lineup is more fully Lutz and seems to be where the last stand will be made, if needed. They fold or merge at that time, regardless of captain, if things continue to deteriorate.

[Camino LS6]

Things aren't deteriorating now - they're improving.

[enzl]

Things aren't deteriorating now - they're improving.

189238[/snapback]

Technically, they've stabilized...

Too many X factors to call it a comeback...I'll give you a quick 5:

1. The Economy....slowing?

2. Gas Prices....could doom new 900 P/U

3. Striking Workers...not everyone has been paid off to go away

4. New Product....will it be consistently good?

5. GMAC...sale is not yet complete. I'm fairly certain the proceeds have been spent. Was it spent wisely?

Otherwise, they've been looking better.

Edited September 4, 2006 by enzl

[Camino LS6]

Technically, they've stabilized...

Too many X factors to call it a comeback...I'll give you a quick 5:

1. The Economy....slowing?

2. Gas Prices....could doom new 900 P/U

3. Striking Workers...not everyone has been paid off to go away

4. New Product....will it be consistently good?

5. GMAC...sale is not yet complete. I'm fairly certain the proceeds have been spent. Was it spent wisely?

Otherwise, they've been looking better.

189248[/snapback]

1. Perhaps, but still quite healthy by most measures. And , this has nothing to do with GM in particular as all automakers will be subject to the health of the economy.

2. Last time I checked, they were declining.

3. The UAW has seen the light and been VERY supportive of GM's turnaround.

4.Has been so far, no reason to think otherwise.

5. How could you possibly know? Spoken for? Maybe. Spent? Certainly not.

[Guest buickman]

I, for one, have a memory. The empty promises have gone on for years and only the most naive still believe. THIS IS FROM 2001!!!

11/07/2001 - Updated 10:43 AM ET

GM exec predicts market share gain

By David Kiley, USA TODAY

Reuters

GM's head of product development Bob Lutz works on building a stronger lineup.

DETROIT — General Motors' top brass have backed away from setting market share goals for the past 2 years, but Bob Lutz, the automaker's new product czar, isn't shy about it.

In an interview with USA TODAY Tuesday, he said GM should gain as much as 5 to 6 points of market share in the next few years, based on the cars and trucks he will be responsible for launching. That would bring GM's share to around 35%, a level it hasn't seen since the 1980s.

"The superb engineering and technological excellence I have seen" at GM combined with "excellent design that people recognize and love" will get the world's largest automaker to that share, he said.

________

Keep believing, keep trusting, you're sound asleep...TIME TO WAKE UP AMERICA!!!

Buickman

The voice in the wilderness.

Edited September 4, 2006 by buickman

[longtooth]

The guy is remarkably well spoken and has a unique blend of insight and humor. I enjoy his articles, straightforwardness, and timely information. Carrying the torch can, at times, be a heavy burden, Mr Farago is a big help!

Buickman

189196[/snapback]

Uneasy lies the head that wears the crown.

[regfootball]

i wish my monitor was horizontal. i could pull up TTAC on screen and leave a Hot Carl all over it.

Edited September 4, 2006 by regfootball

[FAPTurbo]

i wish my monitor was horizontal.  i could pull up TTAC on screen and leave a Hot Carl all over it.

189272[/snapback]

:rotflmao:

Thank you reg for once again expanding my use of the English language.

Edited September 5, 2006 by Captainbooyah

[Northstar]

I, for one, have a memory. The empty promises have gone on for years and only the most naive still believe. THIS IS FROM 2001!!!

 

11/07/2001 - Updated 10:43 AM ET 

 

GM exec predicts market share gain

By David Kiley, USA TODAY

 

Reuters

GM's head of product development Bob Lutz works on building a stronger lineup.

DETROIT — General Motors' top brass have backed away from setting market share goals for the past 2 years, but Bob Lutz, the automaker's new product czar, isn't shy about it.

In an interview with USA TODAY Tuesday, he said GM should gain as much as 5 to 6 points of market share in the next few years, based on the cars and trucks he will be responsible for launching. That would bring GM's share to around 35%, a level it hasn't seen since the 1980s.

"The superb engineering and technological excellence I have seen" at GM combined with "excellent design that people recognize and love" will get the world's largest automaker to that share, he said.

________

Keep believing, keep trusting, you're sound asleep...TIME TO WAKE UP AMERICA!!!

Buickman

The voice in the wilderness.

189259[/snapback]

What you don't understand is that Lutz's products are just now coming out, and they're doing great, and the ones that aren't out look great (Lambdas).

Lucerne, Solstice, Sky, C6, Aura, T900s, HHR, Aveo.

This article was written a couple months after Lutz came on board, so you can put a whole lot of stock in it until you actually see all the Lutz products, and so far, they've been pretty damn good.

Now, were his comments totally off-base and wrong? Yes. But what do you want him to say? Would you rather that he say something negative like "I don't see much good in the products that will be coming out, but later on when I have full control over a program from start to finish they will be great"?

Technically, they've stabilized...

Too many X factors to call it a comeback...I'll give you a quick 5:

1. The Economy....slowing?

2. Gas Prices....could doom new 900 P/U

3. Striking Workers...not everyone has been paid off to go away

4. New Product....will it be consistently good?

5. GMAC...sale is not yet complete. I'm fairly certain the proceeds have been spent. Was it spent wisely?

Otherwise, they've been looking better.

1) The economy doesn't have a whole lot to do with GM making strides. Sure, if it tanks, GM would be done, but so would a lot of companies. The economy has little to do with what GM is doing right or wrong, other than maybe making decesions about whether to put more affordable vehicles in the pipeline or to put some more expensive ones in the pipeline.

2) Gas prices are falling now, but even if they're $4/gallon, lots of people need trucks for work. I don't see gas prices effecting PU sales, but it could effect T900 SUV sales. Silveardo sales are down, but some of that has to be in anticipation of the T900 and some of it is because of the Employee pricing blowout.

3) This won't be any issue for another year, and even so I think that they'll be able to work out a good deal with the UAW, they've been able to deal with them so far. Plus, the UAW seems to have recognized that they have to change or die.

4) What new product hasn't been consistently good lately? The only "bad" products I can think of that have come out recently would be the STS, LaCrosse, Equinox/Torrent, and the Saab rebadges. None of them are really terrible products either, they just have something missing here or there that makes them uncompetitive in a certain area against their competition (STS would be mundane styling, LaCrosse would be platform + powertrain, Nox/Torrent would be engine/interior). And, all of those were still mostly done under the old GM, not under the new GM that has been churning out the competitive products.

5) I have no proof that they weren't spent, but it appears that you have no proof that they were. So, I think this is a moot point until someone can say for sure otherwise, but I'm pretty sure it was spent wisely; GM is very tight with its money nowadays.

[enzl]

1) The economy doesn't have a whole lot to do with GM making strides. Sure, if it tanks, GM would be done, but so would a lot of companies. The economy has little to do with what GM is doing right or wrong, other than maybe making decesions about whether to put more affordable vehicles in the pipeline or to put some more expensive ones in the pipeline.

2) Gas prices are falling now, but even if they're $4/gallon, lots of people need trucks for work. I don't see gas prices effecting PU sales, but it could effect T900 SUV sales. Silveardo sales are down, but some of that has to be in anticipation of the T900 and some of it is because of the Employee pricing blowout.

3) This won't be any issue for another year, and even so I think that they'll be able to work out a good deal with the UAW, they've been able to deal with them so far. Plus, the UAW seems to have recognized that they have to change or die.

4) What new product hasn't been consistently good lately? The only "bad" products I can think of that have come out recently would be the STS, LaCrosse, Equinox/Torrent, and the Saab rebadges. None of them are really terrible products either, they just have something missing here or there that makes them uncompetitive in a certain area against their competition (STS would be mundane styling, LaCrosse would be platform + powertrain, Nox/Torrent would be engine/interior). And, all of those were still mostly done under the old GM, not under the new GM that has been churning out the competitive products.

5) I have no proof that they weren't spent, but it appears that you have no proof that they were. So, I think this is a moot point until someone can say for sure otherwise, but I'm pretty sure it was spent wisely; GM is very tight with its money nowadays.

189310[/snapback]

1. Wrong. If you're teetering on the edge, you only need a modest push. Seen employment numbers, new housing starts or consumer confidence numbers lately? Didn't think so.

2. The 900 SUV's have 60 day + supplies and are having production curtailed already. The Pick-ups may be introduced with $3 gas or $4 gas...you're only one Middle-east flair-up from $4 gas. You wanna bank on Mideast stability? See #1 for futher details.

3. One word: Delphi. Not a done deal yet. Exact bailout figures depend partially on courts decision....Wanna bet on the lawyers helping GM? I'd rather depend upon Mideast peace.

4.Product: Good: Vette, GMT900's, Solstice & Sky---- & Bad: Torrent, G5, LaCrosse, 'Updated' Saabs, No Zetas until 08. I Said CONSISTENTLY good.

5. You missed the point: The money is gone in debacle (Fiat) & development costs. GMAC made a huge % of GM profit in the last 5 years! The family china is sold & the farm is mortgaged. Where do you go if the latest efforts fail?

Edited September 5, 2006 by enzl

[Flybrian]

How about efforts meant for improving General Motors would be taken far, far more seriously if they weren't focused on removing a single person from their position as if he is the singular cause of all these problems.

[Northstar]

4.Product: Good: Vette, GMT900's, Solstice & Sky---- & Bad: Torrent, G5, LaCrosse, 'Updated' Saabs, No Zetas until 08. I Said CONSISTENTLY good.

5. You missed the point: The money is gone in debacle (Fiat) & development costs. GMAC made a huge % of GM profit in the last 5 years! The family china is sold & the farm is mortgaged. Where do you go if the latest efforts fail?

189371[/snapback]

Yes, you said consistently, and the Torrent, G6, and Saabs are only bad because they're rebadges. The LaCrosse was out quite a while ago, and everything you listed that's good is what has come out recently. Therefore, I think it should be obvious that the newer product is good, and consistently so, because you don't have an examples of new-for-06/07MY vehicles being bad.

5. Sure, they sold GMAC, and look at the profit they made before one-time expenses in 2Q. I think that now that they can't rely on GMAC, they'll be better off because they'll be focusing on making a profit without doing so by operating like a bank.

[enzl]

Yes, you said consistently, and the Torrent, G6, and Saabs are only bad because they're rebadges. The LaCrosse was out quite a while ago, and everything you listed that's good is what has come out recently. Therefore, I think it should be obvious that the newer product is good, and consistently so, because you don't have an examples of new-for-06/07MY vehicles being bad.

5. Sure, they sold GMAC, and look at the profit they made before one-time expenses in 2Q. I think that now that they can't rely on GMAC, they'll be better off because they'll be focusing on making a profit without doing so by operating like a bank.

189378[/snapback]

Skipped 1-3...so I'll take it.

The problem with 06/07 is the skimpy CAR quotient....we'll have to see how that plays out.

GMAC is still an enormous loss. It was an ATM GM can no longer run to when there's a tough run at the craps table.

I'm an optimist, but there are clearly some dangers out there.

[Guest buickman]

GMAC is worth something like $24 per share. The shareholders get absolutely nothing. People are sound asleep believing Wagoner has a clue. This company has been swirling down the toilet for years and now has hit the FLUSH.

Mind you, Bob Lutz is passionate about Bob Lutz. I've met the man personally. He is self centered, well past his prime, and full of empty thoughts and promises. Find someone else to believe in, he's not it.

Buickman

The Voice in the Wilderness

Edited September 5, 2006 by buickman

[Guest YellowJacket894]

Now, people, don't forget. . .

[FAPTurbo]

Oh Jesus... I was kinda hoping that image would've been lost in the clutter of the internet...

[tama z71]

GMAC is worth something like $24 per share. The shareholders get absolutely nothing. People are sound asleep believing Wagoner has a clue. This company has been swirling down the toilet for years and now has hit the FLUSH.

Mind you, Bob Lutz is passionate about Bob Lutz. I've met the man personally. He is self centered, well past his prime, and full of empty thoughts and promises. Find someone else to believe in, he's not it.

Buickman

The Voice in the Wilderness

189421[/snapback]

The voice in the wilderness?

You know what, completely revamping one of the largest global companies in the history of modern humanity, while simultaneously changing a decades-old internal train of thought, and STILL having to put out product that is consistently up to par in the most competitive market in the country, is a tough enough job for any one man to handle.

If you don't think Wagoner is the man, then wait until the new products fail. As of 2006, they haven't. But if you are so damn sure of yourself and your convictions that you assign yourself the nickname (which takes balls as it is) "the voice in the wilderness", then go join TTAC so people will understand to automatically ignore your pompous bull$h!.

[Sajeev Mehta]

Sajeev, your thoughts?

189130[/snapback]

I may not always agree with RF's delivery, but white-collar America gets away with murder and someone is FINALLY putting their feet to the fire in the public domain. Think about this way: if there is (or was) and TTAC for Enron, I think my town (Houston) would have been a lot better off because of it.

If he's wrong and GM turns this ship around with class-leading products, he'll probably eat his words and happily sing the virtues of GM's product offering.

Speaking of, my Saturn Aura road test is in the works...uh-oh!

[FAPTurbo]

Speaking of, my Saturn Aura road test is in the works...uh-oh!

189483[/snapback]

I'm sure you're delighted with it

[Sajeev Mehta]

I'm sure you're delighted with it 

189497[/snapback]

Shhhhhh!!! :AH-HA_wink:

[regfootball]

we should shut down all factories that build anything besides the camry and accord. that should be our only two choices.

[Mr.Krinkle]

gas prices are down. a lot of people think its gonna stay that way.

i heard closer to two $ than three.

i dont doubt it, its pretty clear we dont want to pay more than 3 bux a gallon. so f them. f that. i could go on.

[91z4me]

Mind you, ___________ is passionate about ________. I've met the man personally. He is self centered, well past his prime, and full of empty thoughts and promises. Find someone else to believe in, he's not it.

189421[/snapback]

If I were to post this and have people fill in the blanks with people from this board or within GM, what name would fill those blanks on the majority of forms?

[andy82471]

gas prices are down.  a lot of people think its gonna stay that way.

i heard closer to two $ than three. 

i dont doubt it,  its pretty clear we dont want to pay more than 3 bux a gallon.  so f them.  f that.  i could go on.

189562[/snapback]

$2.50 for regular and $2.70 for premium in my part of the country. Hampton Roads Virginia.

C'mon, BUICKMAN give credit where it is due. I am guessing you are kinda jealous of Wagoner and Lutz now that it seems like GM is finally seeing light at the end of the tunnel. A 3.8% increase in sales is actually quite respectable for a company like GM which has been steadily losing market share to the imports. Now the big question is; can GM continue with the momentum or was August sales figure just an anomaly ? I think GM's future products look very promising indeed and the worst is indeed over.

[Camino LS6]

If I were to post this and have people fill in the blanks with people from this board or within GM, what name would fill those blanks on the majority of forms?

189606[/snapback]

Wow, just brilliant.

[Drew Dowdell]

$2.50 for regular and $2.70 for premium in my part of the country. Hampton Roads Virginia.

C'mon, BUICKMAN give credit where it is due. I am guessing you are kinda jealous of Wagoner and Lutz now that it seems like GM is finally seeing light at the end of the tunnel. A 3.8% increase in sales is actually quite respectable for a company like GM which has been steadily losing market share to the imports. Now the big question is; can GM continue with the momentum or was August sales figure just an anomaly ? I think GM's future products look very promising indeed and the worst is indeed over.   

189608[/snapback]

$2.38 for regular this weekend

[regfootball]

$2.38 for regular this weekend

189626[/snapback]

with elections coming up you knew they would drop

[Chicagoland]

"2. The 900 SUV's have 60 day + supplies and are having production curtailed already. The Pick-ups may be introduced with $3 gas or $4 gas...you're only one Middle-east flair-up from $4 gas. You wanna bank on Mideast stability? See #1 for futher details."

The oil companies use any excuse they can to rasie prices. Now that the flare ups of this summer have not turned into WW3. And, there have been no 'devastating' hurricanes. Prices are going down.

There has been 'un-peace' in the Mid East forever. But when they threaten to withhold oil, they relent, reliziing they have nothing else!

All the "we got to get people out of their cars" and "Kill Detroit" fanatics can keep wringing their hands, its not happening. And I will be glad to see gas prices drop.

Edited September 11, 2006 by Chicagoland

[Cory Wolfe]

Yay... I'm paying the lowest for Premium than I ever have... $2.75!