Edmunds Evaluation: 2007 Honda CR-V

[The O.C.]

It's those people GM and Ford cannot afford to lose unless they conquest sales themselves and they still can't do it even with good cars like the Cobalt.

189286[/snapback]

That's the problem.

Cobalt is a decent car....and the best compact from GM yet.....but based upon my drives of a Cobalt, Focus, and Mazda3 as rentals.....and a more limited experience with the new Civic....the Cobalt is not class competitive enough to sway "biased" consumers.

[siegen]

i'm sure there are a bunch of clueless urbanites who grab their CR and head for the toyota dealer and they are much more than happy to pay 50 bucks for the dealer oil changes and like 1000 bucks for a 30,000 mile service.  then there were those morons who didn't change the oil in their camrys and stuff and they got sludge.

and all the honda transmissions that went bad.........

buying toyotas and hondas is how the 'educated' class of people, the pottery barn and crate and barrel set, mainstain their visual 'superiority' over those who have to spend their money on more important things.  it defies logic to them to spend less and keep some money in their pocket because they work in jobs that make lots of money.  A lot of those industries and stuff are self created.  Things like 'consultants', etc......the other group that buys hondas are the youngsters who may have liked civics and honda motorcycles and stuff.  GM for example just does not sell to the crate and barrel set nor the 'import performance' crowd.  but the MYTh has become so large now , that groups who never bought toyotas before are starting to buy them.

Example, an 80+ yo retired farmer in my dad's condo....he has like a 12 yo S-10 with about 200k miles on it, its his tooling truck.  He wanted something new.  He drank the Kool aid and bought a tacoma.  He likes the new Toyota but never drives it.  He keeps driving the S-10.  He bought the Toyota because of the media and personal influences from outside.  He was a happy lifetime GM owner. 

You can see it in the numbers.  toyota goes up 6% one month when Ford is down.

Now I don't know if he got a good deal ont he Tacoma, but I bet it was several thousand more than the Chevy.

Yet he still drives his chevy that's over a decade old with 200,000 miles and its still going.

It's those people GM and Ford cannot afford to lose unless they conquest sales themselves and they still can't do it even with good cars like the Cobalt.

Hell, why is it Mazda can oly sell 70,000 3's YTD and the lousy ugly Civic sells like 3-4 times that?  The Mazda3 is so much more appealing all around.  It just goes to show how the buyers can be a big joke sometimes.

189286[/snapback]

Can you stop generating imaginary worlds where only the things that matter to you are important? It's getting really annoying to have you posting these long paragraphs in every other thread that contain nothing more than uninformed opinions.

When will you learn that a car is more than the sum of its parts? (or in your case, more than just the engine size or what looks good to you).

[Polish_Kris]

Can you stop generating imaginary worlds where only the things that matter to you are important? It's getting really annoying to have you posting these long paragraphs in every other thread that contain nothing more than uninformed opinions.

When will you learn that a car is more than the sum of its parts? (or in your case, more than just the engine size or what looks good to you).

189489[/snapback]

very well said... it is gettng annoying

[Polish_Kris]

The resale argument is a non-starter.  More of the Japan Inc's kool aid.

  This is not anecdotal, okay.  We own two Toyota stores and a Chevy store. 

  A bad example would be a 2005 Cavalier that sold NEW (a/c, auto, Cd) for $12,999 last year WITH a 5 year power train warranty.  A similarly equippped Corolla was selling for $18,400.  When you add Canada's horrible taxes (15% in Ontario last year), the Corolla ends up costing even more.  When you add finance charges on top of that, well, it gets ugly.

  So, just adding taxes (let's forget about cost of money, higher insurance, etc.) the Cavalier is $6,200 cheaper out the door.  I am talking REAL numbers here, boys and girls, not the BS published.

  So, what is a 2000 Corolla worth in this market?  Around $9 grand, traded in.  How about a 2000 Cavalier?  $3,000 or so, depending on the condition.  OOPs, looks like they work out to be about the same.

  GASP!  How can that be?  Toyota's are better, right?

  It is too soon to see how well the Cobalt will fare and its transaction price is much closer to the Corolla's, so it will be an interesting contest to watch over the next couple years.

  As an aside, here, I'd like to point out one PROFESSIONAL observation here that seems to get lost in people's rush to defend Toyota and HOnda:  if you are a customer and you shop a Chevy dealer and could get a Cavalier for $15k out the door, then went to a Toyota store and realized the Corolla would be over $21,000 out the door, yet you still deliberately spent $6,200 MORE because you were convinced the Toyota was a better car, don't you think this consumer would have the car maintained better, washed, waxed and cared for - after all, he bought a PREMIUM vehicle.  You wouldn't believe the condition we see Cavaliers come back in.  People drive with cracked windshields for years.  Dog hair every where.  Bald tires.  Run into the ground.  One guy went 45k km with no oil change in his Z24! When someone trades in a Toytoa, many of them pay to have it detailed first!

  Just an observation from someone who knows where all Toyota's bodies are buried, too.

189153[/snapback]

Ok, which Toyota stores do you own again? And which Chevy one?

You seem to be looking at a different perspective, cause if you're an owner of a dealer, it's better to have Chevy's on your used car lot, because you can make more money off them... than let's say, a Honda and Toyota... You can only raise the prices so much in order to stay competative in the Used Car market... Meanwhile, you can raise the price of a used Cavalier, because the re-sale value especially wholesale is in the pits...

[CARBIZ]

Enzl, I would be worried about a dealer that can't sell a Cavalier in six months. Bad management or bad planning.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that the J-cars will be worth less because they still (collectively) outsold the Civic (in Canada) even in their last year - not bad for a vehicle that was 11 years old! Try and find a used 2000 Corolla or Civic and they will be scarce, yet J-cars will be in abundance. I suspect the pendulum will swing the other way in a couple of years when the market is awash in rusting Corollas and Civics and the Cobalt has become more scarce as a used vehicle.

The dealers take advantage of this scarcity and really sock it to the consumer on used Toyotas/Hondas. We never have a problem selling used J-cars. We have no problems getting upside down customers bought. The problem, as I see it, isn't so much that GM products lose value as much as the persistence of 0% financing discourages people from putting money down in the first place.

Any idiot would know that you can't finance a $20k car, all the taxes and fees, over 60 months with nothing down and expect to trade the car in after 3 years and have equity.

But it is easier to blame GM's depreciation, isn't it?

[bowtie_dude]

Its still a girly cute-ute. And while all of these small X-over utes are sold mostly to girls, at least the Escape and Torrent come off as more unisex appeal, if not slightly masculine.

[toyoguy]

the toyota dealer and they are much more than happy to pay 50 bucks for the dealer oil changes and like 1000 bucks for a 30,000 mile service.  then there were those morons who didn't change the oil in their camrys and stuff and they got sludge.

189286[/snapback]

what dealer charges $50 for an oil change? I pay $20-25 for mine, never seen a dealer charge $50 unless for synthetic.

And 30,000mi service is approx ~$200 if you it done.

[turbo200]

These cars, sadly, yes, will go for over sticker in my area, and easily sell for all the money. There's a difference between a product that has a lot of flaws and isn't easy to present on the perception level, from a product that has lots of brand heritage (Honda) and is magnificent to present at the showroom floor. People react to tiny details that they love, and Honda's are packed with them. The quality headliner to the supple leather to the available nav system to the high high quality plastics to the much more characterful design inside and out---all add to the appeal at the dealership level. The first step is getting them in the dealership---people who walk into Honda know why there are going there---they know what kind of reliability and reputation along with solid engineering they are getting. Trust me when I say all the little nuances of this truck are going to be enough to convert maybe 50k more buyers per year.

Looking at the current CR-V, I have no idea how we sell that piece of crap. The interior style is at the bottom of its class[okay Tucson is probably worse], the exterior is like a bug, the drive is completely uninvigorating, and the gas mileage is not all that impressive. However, people come in to buy a Honda, they have seen the little SUV, and it's exactly what fits thier needs. All they need is a good salesman to show them the attributes, and the smooth ride and Honda safety/quality are really enough to move them in the right direction. Still, I am amazed at how much of a cash cow the car has been for me; goes to show how much people love the idea of more utility wrapped in a useable package.

The new model has a thousand times more class. I say that without concern of stretching the truth. The interior materials and design are in a class above the price class it will compete in. The drive is fantastic. Yes, it has a small engine, no it isn't underpowered for a LOT of people's needs. This car is the perfect LA commuter car. It's a perfect commuter car in general, and it isn't at all slow. And I drive an RSX Type S. The steering is communicative and precise like a sports car, the engine sounds refined and finally has competitive gas mileage with the RAV4. It will be a profitable addition, without a doubt.

[regfootball]

Can you stop generating imaginary worlds where only the things that matter to you are important? It's getting really annoying to have you posting these long paragraphs in every other thread that contain nothing more than uninformed opinions.

When will you learn that a car is more than the sum of its parts? (or in your case, more than just the engine size or what looks good to you).

189489[/snapback]

don't like it? don't read it. get over it.

[regfootball]

very well said... it is gettng annoying

189496[/snapback]

you and seigen can get a room