Who's the Rental Queen Now?

[Flybrian]

Who's the Rental Queen Now?

By Brian Dreggors for Cheersandgears.com

Remember prom night? Well, not that part, but the part before it at the actual dance where the king and queen were elected? What a magical moment when the most popular and stuck-up get recognized by their peers yet again. Big whoop, let’s go spike the punch…

Well, its that time of year (sort of) to have our own little C&G promenade and top honors in this superlative goes to Rental King and Queen of the First Half of 2006. Before you elect the winners mentally, remember we’re talking about cars that go to the good folks that pick you up and try harder, not government fleet sales (police and local agencies) nor commercial fleet sales (plumbers, doctors, even you). I qualify our winners in this fashion because the rental lots seem to be the bane of the new car market in everyone’s eyes. You sometimes read a car described as ‘interceptor fast’ or ‘contractor tough,’ but never is being ‘rental-like’ a positive; usually its, ‘rental car cheap’, ‘boring’, ‘bland’, or even ’junk.’

Remember again, we’re announcing winners based on total number of units sold registered specifically as rental fleet sales in the first half of 2006. We don’t include fleet-specific models like the Taurus and Classic either to be fair.

Have your personal favs ready?

Let’s open the envelopes, please.

And our Rental King, with 50,629 vehicles up for rent, is…

The Chevrolet Impala!

No real surprise here. The last Impala was rather heavily fleeted, too. Also, as Fleet Car of the Year, did you really expect anything else?

Our Rental Queen this year, with 46,788 vehicles being rented near you, is…

The Chevrolet Malibu!

Again, little surprise for the sedan that was rather tepid from the start. Already nearing the end of its life cycle, what more can you actually expect.

No big deal, right? The quarter and the blonde with large breasts won again. Big whoop, let’s go spike the punch…

But, wait. Who’s this occupying third place for most units being sold to rental agencies so far. Is it the Grand Prix? The Cobalt? Focus? No, our Rental Queen Up-and-Comer, with 41,867 units up for rent is…

The Hyundai Sonata!

Didn’t quite expect that, did you? Yet, it’s not altogether that surprising. In rote numbers the Sonata is third most-rental-fleeted car in the United States. Even in percentages of total sales, the Sonata ranks high with 49.5% of total sales going straight to rental agencies, making it third behind the Pontiac Grand Prix (69%) and Chevrolet Malibu (52%).

Here are some other interesting, often myth-busting tidbits:

*Retail sales for GM’s W-body cars (Impala, Monte Carlo, LaCrosse, and Grand Prix) exceed still exceed total retail sales of DCX’s LX cars (Charger, 300, Magnum), 98,743 vs. 93,727.

*20.4% of all Hyundai Azeras sold were straight to rental agencies.

*Buick’s LaCrosse and Lucerne are 26% and 27% rental vs. retail, respectively

*More Nissan Armadas are dumped on rental fleets than Chevrolet Tahoes; nearly three times as many by quantity (2,808 vs 1,019) and by percentage (16.4% vs. 6.7%).

*Nearly 3 out of 10 (28.7%) of all Hyundais sold are straight to rental agencies.

Don’t believe me? Check out the numbers here…

2006 Midyear Car Registrations

2006 Midyear Truck, Van, and SUV Registrations

[loki]

so depending on gm rental ideas... will the 08 bu take over when it comes out? lol

[Dsuupr]

Will they do another "Classic" with the current Malibu. It worked well for the old one.

[jbartley]

that statistic about the Nissan Aramadas being used as rental cars terrifies me. Those poor unknowing renters are getting more cheap plastic than they asked for, and who know's probably likely to break down over the course of their 2 days rental.

[boblutzfan]

so depending on gm rental ideas... will the 08 bu take over when it comes out?  lol

187614[/snapback]

The new 2008 Malibu looks to have all it needs to be a retail success - provided they give it the 3.6L DOHC engine. GM needs to cut down these rental sales. The current Malibu should be carried over as a classic to allow the next Malibu a chance to be a retail success.

[Drew Dowdell]

The new 2008 Malibu looks to have all it needs to be a retail success - provided they give it the 3.6L DOHC engine.  GM needs to cut down these rental sales.  The current Malibu should be carried over as a classic to allow the next Malibu a chance to be a retail success.

187815[/snapback]

With gas prices the way they are, can't people buy a 4-cylinder anymore?

[BuddyP]

Wow, so overall sales for GM aren't really as good as they seem.

[Shantanu]

Good research.

[boblutzfan]

With gas prices the way they are, can't people buy a 4-cylinder anymore?

187818[/snapback]

Yes - you can get a 4-cylinder as the base motor. I just don't want GM/Chevy to cheap out and use the 3.9L OHV V6 as the top motor instead of the 3.6L If they do, they will lose a sale from me.

I want a 2008 Malibu LTZ with the 3.6L V6 and the 6-speed automatic.

[Matt276]

Wow, so overall sales for GM aren't really as good as they seem.

187822[/snapback]

No, it's really sad but not surprising. Honda is the king of retail.

[sciguy_0504]

After seeing all the Sonatas in Florida, this doesn't surprise me. I am disappointed in Lucerne rental sales, though. I'd like a lower rate, if possible. They were popular in Florida, as well.

[usa1]

I want a 2008 Malibu LTZ with the 3.6L V6 and the 6-speed automatic.

187852[/snapback]

Don't hold your breath waiting. You can get a G6 or Aura with the combo you want now.

Mark

[The O.C.]

Who's the Rental Queen Now?

By Brian Dreggors for Cheersandgears.com

Remember prom night? Well, not that part, but the part before it at the actual dance where the king and queen were elected? What a magical moment when the most popular and stuck-up get recognized by their peers yet again. Big whoop, let’s go spike the punch…

Well, its that time of year (sort of) to have our own little C&G promenade and top honors in this superlative goes to Rental King and Queen of the First Half of 2006. Before you elect the winners mentally, remember we’re talking about cars that go to the good folks that pick you up and try harder, not government fleet sales (police and local agencies) nor commercial fleet sales (plumbers, doctors, even you). I qualify our winners in this fashion because the rental lots seem to be the bane of the new car market in everyone’s eyes. You sometimes read a car described as ‘interceptor fast’ or ‘contractor tough,’ but never is being ‘rental-like’ a positive; usually its, ‘rental car cheap’, ‘boring’, ‘bland’, or even ’junk.’

Remember again, we’re announcing winners based on total number of units sold registered specifically as rental fleet sales in the first half of 2006. We don’t include fleet-specific models like the Taurus and Classic either to be fair.

Have your personal favs ready?

Let’s open the envelopes, please.

And our Rental King, with 50,629 vehicles up for rent, is…

The Chevrolet Impala!

No real surprise here. The last Impala was rather heavily fleeted, too. Also, as Fleet Car of the Year, did you really expect anything else?

Our Rental Queen this year, with 46,788 vehicles being rented near you, is…

The Chevrolet Malibu!

Again, little surprise for the sedan that was rather tepid from the start. Already nearing the end of its life cycle, what more can you actually expect.

No big deal, right? The quarter and the blonde with large breasts won again. Big whoop, let’s go spike the punch…

But, wait. Who’s this occupying third place for most units being sold to rental agencies so far. Is it the Grand Prix? The Cobalt? Focus? No, our Rental Queen Up-and-Comer, with 41,867 units up for rent is…

The Hyundai Sonata!

Didn’t quite expect that, did you? Yet, it’s not altogether that surprising. In rote numbers the Sonata is third most-rental-fleeted car in the United States. Even in percentages of total sales, the Sonata ranks high with 49.5% of total sales going straight to rental agencies, making it third behind the Pontiac Grand Prix (69%) and Chevrolet Malibu (52%).

Here are some other interesting, often myth-busting tidbits:

*Retail sales for GM’s W-body cars (Impala, Monte Carlo, LaCrosse, and Grand Prix) exceed still exceed total retail sales of DCX’s LX cars (Charger, 300, Magnum), 98,743 vs. 93,727.

*20.4% of all Hyundai Azeras sold were straight to rental agencies.

*Buick’s LaCrosse and Lucerne are 26% and 27% rental vs. retail, respectively

*More Nissan Armadas are dumped on rental fleets than Chevrolet Tahoes; nearly three times as many by quantity (2,808 vs 1,019) and by percentage (16.4% vs. 6.7%).

*Nearly 3 out of 10 (28.7%) of all Hyundais sold are straight to rental agencies.

Don’t believe me? Check out the numbers here…

2006 Midyear Car Registrations

2006 Midyear Truck, Van, and SUV Registrations

187577[/snapback]

Good work.

Couple of things......Sonata's NOT surprising to me. I see them everywhere in rental lots. I don't think anyone on here is going to say they are trying to hide the fact that Sonata sells big to rental fleets. The argument has always been that despite that fact, Sonata is a big improvement over any other recent Korean midsize sedan and a viable competitior for the other Japanese midsizers...and in some ways superior to some of GM's midsizers.

W-body versus LX cars.......so DCX comes within 5K units of GM with a lineup of only two volume sedans versus GM with three volume sedans. (MC and Magnum are more niche-like.)

Do you really think GM has a valid "bragging right" with your W-Body/LX argument?

[91z4me]

Will they do another "Classic" with the current Malibu.  It worked well for the old one.

187800[/snapback]

Yes.

[regfootball]

With gas prices the way they are, can't people buy a 4-cylinder anymore?

187818[/snapback]

sure, its called Cobalt.

[regfootball]

Don't hold your breath waiting.  You can get a G6 or Aura with the combo you want now.

Mark

187881[/snapback]

I am sure the committee of lame assholes that have kept you from getting that in Malibus up unitl now have probably conspired to keep it out of the next gen Malibu as well.

-Bob

[regfootball]

Nearly 3 out of 10 (28.7%) of all Hyundais sold are straight to rental agencies.

[Flybrian]

W-body versus LX cars.......so DCX comes within 5K units of GM with a lineup of only two volume sedans versus GM with three volume sedans.  (MC and Magnum are more niche-like.) 

Do you really think GM has a valid "bragging right" with your W-Body/LX argument?

187891[/snapback]

In the sense that one is a coupe in a "dead" market, one is derided for being overstyled and goofy, one is a 'lame Taurus', one is a 'fleet queen,' and all of ride on an 'ancient' platform with 'lousy' pushrod engines mated to 'embarrassing' 4-speed automatics while the other three represent this 'RWD is back/FWD is dead' era with OMG German underpinnings, yes I think GM can brag a little bit.

I guess my main point here is that the LX cars would've sold just as well if the transmission were forward of the engine and it were front-wheel drive, meaning the style and performance sell over every other factor in this half of the midsize car market. Its easily argued all of the above GM and DCX cars have more style and way better performance than the 500 and Montego and the sales figures show that. Alternatively, the Fusion is doing pretty well compared to the well-established Malibu because it has style and (coming soon) performance.

Also, can you imagine how well the W-bodies would sell if they looked a little better, were packaged a bit wiser, and had 5-spd automatics mated even to the same engines?

[Chicagoland]

One other thing to point out in W vs. LX is it shows that FWD is not 'dead'.

Just that RWD is an alternative, not going to comeback as the 'good old days'.

[The O.C.]

Also, can you imagine how well the W-bodies would sell if they looked a little better, were packaged a bit wiser, and had 5-spd automatics mated even to the same engines?

187943[/snapback]

Well, I might not vote for ALL the same engines.....but basically what you just said has been my bitch with these cars all along.

[Camino LS6]

Though unloved by many (including me) for various reasons, they have done their job by keeping GM in the game. I won't mourn their passing however. With so many strikes against them in today's market , I'd say it is amazing that they still outsell the LX cars.

[I hope GMRULES again]

The one thing that list proves is just how much doo-doo GM and their Detroit neighbors are in.

[GMman]

My understanding is that when a company continues to sell a vehicle based on a platform that has been around awhile, they're able to sell the vehicles cheaper and still make profit based on the fact that the platform (tooling, etc) is bought and paid for. Example: Ford Crown Vic that is as old as dirt, and the biggest market for it is fleet sales..?? But Ford keeps it around..

If that is true, and I'm sure if it's not someone will quickly correct me, then what's the worst part of GM fleeting these vehicles out to rental car companies? I know the W hasn't been around as long as the Crown Vic, but it's been around quite a while, right?

Edited September 2, 2006 by GMman

[91z4me]

My understanding is that when a company continues to sell a vehicle based on a platform that has been around awhile, they're able to sell the vehicles cheaper and still make profit based on the fact that the platform (tooling, etc) is bought and paid for.  Example:  Ford Crown Vic that is as old as dirt, and the biggest market for it is fleet sales..??  But Ford keeps it around.. 

  If that is true, and I'm sure if it's not someone will quickly correct me, then what's the worst part of GM fleeting these vehicles out to rental car companies?  I know the W hasn't been around as long as the Crown Vic, but it's been around quite a while, right?

188108[/snapback]

The W-body first came out in the late 80s.

[Farkas]

1988 to be exact, with the debut of the Buick Regal, Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme, and the Pontiac Grand Prix.

[GMman]

Ok it's been around a LONG time....So doesn't that mean that it's easier for GM to make a profit on those cars based on the W?

[Satty]

Not if they have to sell all of the cars with huge rebates, which they do because the cars are so old and below the competition that price is the only thing they have going for them. Unless you count gigantic overhangs and a really low back seat as positives.

[GMman]

Dude, I can't read your posts without laughing because of the SNL head bobers.

[Satty]

I burned What is Love onto a cd one time, just for the hell of it. It started playing once while my ex and I were driving somewhere and we started doing that. Dorkiest moment of my life.

[razoredge]

Ah yes, the ol W body controversy strikes again.

1. Last year W body outsold Camry

this is the beauty of GM, all these people driving W bodies but yet theyt dont all look the same like all the lab rats in their Camrys

2. W body has been continously upgraded since 88

3. W body drivetrains have been upgraded 3-4 times since 88 dependiong on which motors you pick, its a car that has probably been offered with more engine choices and variations than any other car

Its kinda sad to hear all this talking down by so many people that know nothing about the car, except that they heard somewhere (know it alls on C&G) "the car has been around since the 80's", then that becomes all anyone knows about the car, which in reality is little to nothing...........

How many times have we had know it all posters, make the statement here, that W body has never made GM a penny, all lost money, the stupidest platform development they ever did ? Kinda funny aint it ? Wonder what the grand total W body sales have been.................and yet GM cant make any money of this simple designed and manufactured car ? yarite !

Well enough on the W body, believe what you want, and whatever you do dont drive one...........

Rental cars , once again......... BFD. Somebody needs to make the sales, lets just give them all away to some Asian company............yea, thats it, that would be the American way. I bet Hyundia was happy for the sales. I bet it will help them get a stronger foothold in MY country.

I have the answer, from now on people can take a cab or rent a bicycle, then Ill no longer have to listen to the rental car whinning and crying.

[Satty]

There would be no whining if rental companies didn't get huge discounts on the cars, but since GM sells them to Enterprise, etc for next to nothing it hurts GM's bottom line (although it makes the sales charts look nice) as well as resale value (which doesn't matter too much to GM) and it gives GM the reputation of being the disposable rental car company, which I doubt generates many new sales.

[GMman]

razoredge: I'm in total agreement with you.

Satty: Dorky is driving a camry. That skit from SNL was one of the all time funniest, no doubt. My wife and I have done that in the car before.

Now, about this profit thing.....can't a car company (GM) still make a profit by selling cars (even at wholesale to fleets) off of the W simply because of it's age?? Does that question make sense?

I thought that was why Ford kept the Crown Vic around.....for Police agencies and cab companies..and/or company cars/rental. They have to be making a pretty good profit off of them or they would quit. And I thought that was because the platform paid for itself years ago.

Edited September 2, 2006 by GMman

[razoredge]

I understand that satty but arent they hastle free volumn sales. Im sure there is still money in them.

Its really quite simple, if we had no asian cars in this country, no one would feel that the rental cars were anything out of the norm..................Im sure it wasnt a big deal 30 years ago. Of course we're suffering for it today......................go figure...........and here we've been told, it will be better in the end "you'll see".

Hey there all American cars anyhow....................right ?

There all American countries now right ?

Everyones an American now right ?

I heard China is looking for American immigrants, come one come all they say............right ?

[daves87rs]

Ah yes, the ol W body controversy strikes again.

1. Last year W body outsold Camry

    this is the beauty of GM, all these people driving W bodies but yet theyt dont all look the same like all the lab rats in their Camrys

2. W body has been continously upgraded since 88

3. W body drivetrains have been upgraded 3-4 times since 88 dependiong on which motors you pick, its a car that has probably been offered with more engine choices and variations than any other car

Its kinda sad to hear all this talking down by so many people that know nothing about the car, except that they heard somewhere (know it alls on C&G) "the car has been around since the 80's", then that becomes all anyone knows about the car, which in reality is little to nothing...........

How many times have we had know it all posters, make the statement here, that W body has never made GM a penny, all lost money, the stupidest platform development they ever did ? Kinda funny aint it ? Wonder what the grand total W body sales have been.................and yet GM cant make any money of this simple designed and manufactured car ?  yarite !

Well enough on the W body, believe what you want, and whatever you do dont drive one...........

Rental cars , once again......... BFD. Somebody needs to make the sales, lets just give them all away to some Asian company............yea, thats it, that would be the American way. I bet Hyundia was happy for the sales. I bet it will help them get a stronger foothold in MY country.

I have the answer, from now on people can take a cab or rent a bicycle, then Ill no longer have to listen to the rental car whinning and crying.

188323[/snapback]

I, too am going to agree with razor on this one...

[daves87rs]

There would be no whining if rental companies didn't get huge discounts on the cars, but since GM sells them to Enterprise, etc for next to nothing it hurts GM's bottom line (although it makes the sales charts look nice) as well as resale value (which doesn't matter too much to GM) and it gives GM the reputation of being the disposable rental car company, which I doubt generates many new sales.

188337[/snapback]

believe it or not- rental companies are not getting them as cheaply as one would think...

As proof of the jump in rental rates...but there is not doubt it would help their value..

[The O.C.]

My understanding is that when a company continues to sell a vehicle based on a platform that has been around awhile, they're able to sell the vehicles cheaper and still make profit based on the fact that the platform (tooling, etc) is bought and paid for.  Example:  Ford Crown Vic that is as old as dirt, and the biggest market for it is fleet sales..??  But Ford keeps it around.. 

  If that is true, and I'm sure if it's not someone will quickly correct me, then what's the worst part of GM fleeting these vehicles out to rental car companies?  I know the W hasn't been around as long as the Crown Vic, but it's been around quite a while, right?

188108[/snapback]

The Crown Vic/Marquis have moved into a kindof "niche" market for Ford. With Ford's mainstream vehicles being the Fusion, 500, and Mustang (for the sporty crowd) I don't think that the fleeting of CV/Marq can really hurt Ford's overall image.

The W-body cars ARE GM's mainstream sedans.....and therefore, whoring them out to rental agencies and fleets do nothing but reduce resale values and bring about a negative perception of GM vehicles to many non-GM, import-leaning consumers out there.

Sure others fleet out.....(Hyundai being a recent topic) but I think overall, GM is the worst offender. Too many of their mainstream products are seen as nothing more than Rental Queens.

[The O.C.]

Ah yes, the ol W body controversy strikes again.

1. Last year W body outsold Camry

    this is the beauty of GM, all these people driving W bodies but yet theyt dont all look the same like all the lab rats in their Camrys

2. W body has been continously upgraded since 88

3. W body drivetrains have been upgraded 3-4 times since 88 dependiong on which motors you pick, its a car that has probably been offered with more engine choices and variations than any other car

Its kinda sad to hear all this talking down by so many people that know nothing about the car, except that they heard somewhere (know it alls on C&G) "the car has been around since the 80's", then that becomes all anyone knows about the car, which in reality is little to nothing...........

How many times have we had know it all posters, make the statement here, that W body has never made GM a penny, all lost money, the stupidest platform development they ever did ? Kinda funny aint it ? Wonder what the grand total W body sales have been.................and yet GM cant make any money of this simple designed and manufactured car ?  yarite !

Well enough on the W body, believe what you want, and whatever you do dont drive one...........

Rental cars , once again......... BFD. Somebody needs to make the sales, lets just give them all away to some Asian company............yea, thats it, that would be the American way. I bet Hyundia was happy for the sales. I bet it will help them get a stronger foothold in MY country.

I have the answer, from now on people can take a cab or rent a bicycle, then Ill no longer have to listen to the rental car whinning and crying.

188323[/snapback]

Gawd......

W-Body didn't outsell Camry RETAIL..........

And no one ever said GM doesn't make money on them.....but I too have to wonder what the real return is....with all the rental sales and heavy incentives to move most variations of the W-Body.

And talking about KNOWING something about the (W-Body) car......I've owned a few of them....and spent my almost entire 11-year GM career driving them as company cars. So I can't speak for anyone else on here, but I have an intimate knowledge of the W-Body product.

As far as the rental argument......W-Body is past it's prime....it's not competitive with the mainstream competition out there from Ford, DCX, and the imports....AND at the SAME TIME....it's a rental queen (did I see 70% Grand Prix's go into rental service at the beginning of this thread?)

When you have those two factors working against you, it's VERY hard to appeal to someone loyal to a Camry, Accord, Altima, or even a DCX LX car.

They are not bad cars......at all....they are just simply ten steps behind the times.

[Regalguy01]

Well let me start by saying Fly, you have put together a well thought out, myth-dispelling commentary yet again. As we southerners say, I 'preciate that. Now, let me get off the W-body discussion, since I currently own one I feel biased in my opinion towards the car. But I would like to look at the two of thevehicles at the heart of this discussion.

1st. Impala. This car went from the ultimate factory-built cool machine(90's SS version) To a blandmobile(starting year 2000) in order to appeal to the main stream, bread-and-butter segment. To that end, the car is spacious, competent and not bad looking when fully decked out. In current form, many have criticized its new looks as 'boring' or 'forgettable' but its funny, I don't remember falling to sleep with visions of the new 07' camry dancing in my head either. Call it what you want but with an array of color, engine and wheel choices as well as very reasonable pricing, its no wonder the rental agencies and car buying public pounce on this car year after year.

2nd. Sonata. Now on this I have to be honest, I am laughing my ass off and loving every minute of it. Why? Because Impala and Malibu, like most GM launch vehicles, were met with mixed press reaction. The Sonata though was praised almost by every member of the autmotive press I can remember. Oh I recall reading things like ''this is the company buick and general motors need to watch out for'' or ''in but a few short years, Hyundai has caught up and passed the domestics in closing the gap on Asian automakers''. Yeah, really, well these numbers show that the media saw something that the public doesn't. I met the Sonata and Azera with the same ho-hum attitude that I have of all their products. For sonata, looks like they took the ass directly off the 03-04 accord and shrunk it to fit their platform. As for the azera, I have said it once and I will say it until the car is automotive history: Azera = Azero . HYUNDAI AIN'T NO FRIGGIN PREMIUM SEDAN!

At the end of the day what others have said is true. The W-body is an old platform and gm undoubtedly makes money hand over fist when they sell those cars at or near the sticker price. I would also say the time is drawing near to put them to rest. In the automotive world, profitability is tied to desireability and fresh product helps to increase the latter.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

BUT BRIAN, BUT BRIAN!!!!!

I'm a big, all knowing automotive analyst and I think that the G6 is a failure because the Sonata is more popular than it!!!!! No, I'm not wrong... I'm never wrong!!!!

AUTOMOTIVE PRESS: "That Hyundai is really giving everyone a run for their money. Sales are growing exponentially!!! And they're the next big thing!!!!!"

***Shows how much your average automotive idiot journalist knows.***

[91z4me]

Ah yes, the ol W body controversy strikes again.

1. Last year W body outsold Camry

    this is the beauty of GM, all these people driving W bodies but yet theyt dont all look the same like all the lab rats in their Camrys

2. W body has been continously upgraded since 88

3. W body drivetrains have been upgraded 3-4 times since 88 dependiong on which motors you pick, its a car that has probably been offered with more engine choices and variations than any other car

Its kinda sad to hear all this talking down by so many people that know nothing about the car, except that they heard somewhere (know it alls on C&G) "the car has been around since the 80's", then that becomes all anyone knows about the car, which in reality is little to nothing...........

How many times have we had know it all posters, make the statement here, that W body has never made GM a penny, all lost money, the stupidest platform development they ever did ? Kinda funny aint it ? Wonder what the grand total W body sales have been.................and yet GM cant make any money of this simple designed and manufactured car ?  yarite !

Well enough on the W body, believe what you want, and whatever you do dont drive one...........

Rental cars , once again......... BFD. Somebody needs to make the sales, lets just give them all away to some Asian company............yea, thats it, that would be the American way. I bet Hyundia was happy for the sales. I bet it will help them get a stronger foothold in MY country.

I have the answer, from now on people can take a cab or rent a bicycle, then Ill no longer have to listen to the rental car whinning and crying.

188323[/snapback]

Well lets see I currently have a 97 W-body Z34 Monte Carlo, my mother has a 2002 Grand Prix GT sedan, my father had a 1998 Chevy Lumina 3.1, my brother had a 1996 Olds Cutlass supreme. All of which I have driven and all of which I reguard as nice driving cars. There are 3 distinctive versions of the W-body represented here. All of which were produced within a few years of each other. I also know a few things about the W-bodies outside of my experience.

But lets take a few examples of other platforms and their replacements that GM has taken the time to replace with newer more competitive platforms: Omega evolved into the V-car in Aus but was totally replaced in the US by Sigma. Which one of those two would you rather own? The N-body, either the P90 Malibu/Cutlass or the Grand Am/Olds Alero, and compare it to Epsilon. Again which would you rather have?

See the point isn't that the W-body is just a total peice of crap but it is that GM CAN do better by replacing it if it wanted to.

[razoredge]

OC, I obviously was not talking about you, I have a very good memory and you dont need to remind me of your experience(s).

I have seen it posted on here that W body has never done anything but lost money.

I have seen it repeatedly posted here as if W body was same exact car it was in 88.

W body did outsell Camry last year, spin it all you want, it outsold. I dont need to hear that Camry made more money, that obvious, cheap labor, selling at MSRP, ect. Im simply talking about the fact that there is still some form of large popularity and pleasure in the car, somewhere throughout N.America and it aint all "rental".

Impala is selling great around here, to we "ignorant", "inbred", "redneck", "whitetrash"............................in a land that is naturally hard on cars I can only wonder if we are "ignorant" or proud Americans unadorned by statis qou and recognize a great car ? Sorry to get ruff, but.........

Im not saying there is any lack of Camrys, Accords and those damn Hyundias/Kias. Im sure some remember my post about the HUGE dealership that has the H U G E Aug. marathon for Hyundia, well thats once again just closed down and yep!............theres more of them than ever..........This year, beginning last week, the remaining Hyundia dealerships started advertising they are going to have a "Match any dealers lowest price sale"..................... Anybody getting the pic yet ? You know what manufacturers these "sales" are hurting right ?

Im not saying W body does not need to be replaced. Im just a bit sick of the folklore and spin. I will say again as current owner of "Epilson" and former owner of W...........no comparision for front seat comfort or suspension ride and thats comparing a 200,000+ mile 1991 1st gen. monoleaf W to a brand dandy new "Epilson". Yes, some aspects of the chassis layout are better, tighter, stiffer, but over all from behind the steering wheel................NOT as comfortable of a car. It is far better quality/ride/handling than our old A body wagon winter car, better than the N body base loaner Alero I had, but sorry, its no W or H body. Both of which are "anchient" and one of which is extinct. You have no idea how much it hurts me to say this stuff too. I drove the "Epilson"car today, well, now the LSS is "mine" and Im so much happier to drive that "old" H body. My wife loves the new car and says it fits her like a glove..........well it dont fit me and Im not talking about size. There is some serious ergonomic seating/steering wheel/pedal/armrest placement issues and frankly Im disgusted. Seems some very important basics have suffered to appease this new definition of "proportions" and "space utilization". There is a couple of quick fixes for the problems but I doubt anything would be done in any less than 5 model years.......................

Enough for now, I need to take this up with BOB himself with photos to show the problems............he'll probably shine it on and turn the other cheek. Im more anxious now than ever to drive a Solstice to see if they had the same overlook on that car as well. Position is everything.

[CARBIZ]

O.C., how much money do you think GM loses on rental sales? Do some research and then flap about it.

We sell hundreds of Impala's, etc. to fleets and they are usually sold for $150 to $300 above invoice, so I don't see GM losing any money on these. GM, in turn, gives the dealer a $1,000 fleet rebate. Big deal. The current 0% promotion will cost GM more than $1,000 per unit on the retail side.

I fail to see how having a car used as a taxi, police car or rental will hurt sales. Frankly, as I've told customers many times, having a lot of Impala/Century taxis is a good thing - a testimony to the durability of the vehicle and the faith the taxi drivers have in the vehicle.

Resale values is yet another matter, but nearly half our sales are leases anyway. And let me tell you, the Toyota store is going to stick it to you anyway on their used car lot. Their transaction profit is TRIPLE what they make in new cars.

[The O.C.]

O.C., how much money do you think GM loses on rental sales?  Do some research and then flap about it.

  We sell hundreds of Impala's, etc. to fleets and they are usually sold for $150 to $300 above invoice, so I don't see GM losing any money on these.  GM, in turn, gives the dealer a $1,000 fleet rebate.  Big deal.  The current 0% promotion will cost GM more than $1,000 per unit on the retail side.

  I fail to see how having a car used as a taxi, police car or rental will hurt sales.  Frankly, as I've told customers many times, having a lot of Impala/Century taxis is a good thing - a testimony to the durability of the vehicle and the faith the taxi drivers have in the vehicle.

  Resale values is yet another matter, but nearly half our sales are leases anyway.  And let me tell you, the Toyota store is going to stick it to you anyway on their used car lot.  Their transaction profit is TRIPLE what they make in new cars.

189160[/snapback]

Fleets are different than Rentals......

Maybe Evok has the profitability (or lack thereof) figures for rental cars.....

But this I CAN tell you. When GM sells a rental fleet to, let's say, Avis, they (GM) agree to buy back that car from Avis for a pre-determined amount. The Avis' of the world don't pay anywhere near invoice or MSRP for the cars.....usually, in MY experience, GM (or Suzuki) would sell the cars for net-net-net....backing out all incentives, holdback, and dealer advertising and flooring monies. AND, if I remember correctly, GM sells them for even a bit less than THAT....due to the volume purchased by the rental companies.

THEN, GM has to repurchase the car at the end of the term (usually between 9-12mos) and HOPE to regain as much as they can from the depreciation when they run the rental returns back through the auction to be purchased by dealers.

You say....."what's in it for GM then if they lose money?" Well....you could argue product exposure. But the more realistic reason is that they keep production up...plants running...and UAW workers working. If they had to reduce production due to lack of demand, GM would lose way more money than if they "take it on the chin" and increase sales to rental fleets.

Trust me.....the reason dealers LOVE to buy rental returns.....is because of how CHEAPLY they can purchase them from GM through the auctions for.

For what it's worth....

[CARBIZ]

Things must be different down south, because here WE sell directly to the rental agencies and we do sell them for $150-$300 over invoice. They get bought back through a GM auction.

[The O.C.]

Things must be different down south, because here WE sell directly to the rental agencies and we do sell them for $150-$300 over invoice.  They get bought back through a GM auction.

189511[/snapback]

Canada IS different.

That's not the way it is in the U.S.

GM handles sales to rental agencies internally......unless a local dealer has a deal worked out with a local, small rental agency. And even then, sometimes, GM will decide to work with that small local agency internally instead of approving any fleet incentives for the dealer to use with said agency.

[razoredge]

Canada IS different.

That's not the way it is in the U.S.

GM handles sales to rental agencies internally......unless a local dealer has a deal worked out with a local, small rental agency.  And even then, sometimes, GM will decide to work with that small local agency internally instead of approving any fleet incentives for the dealer to use with said agency.

189708[/snapback]

Sounds fishy to me, kinda like your improvising here. It also seems funny dealers can make a bit of profit in Canada but you claim in the States, dealing direct, GM cant even make any money. So this means the Canadian Rental Agencys are paying more for their cars than the US agencys + a bit for the dealers. Dem Canadians stupid...........ey ?

[wiserocz]

The one thing I keep thinking is I wonder how many people rent a GM vehicle (like for a business trip) and make their decisions from that experience. If I owned a Toyota whatever, went out of town and rented a Impala would that change my perception of a GM vehicle. Well maybe. I know several people who have rented cars and use that as their verification on how they feel about the brand. I also think based on a sales standpoint that you want to have some margin left over and not cannibalize your retail sales with a rental bulk purchase. So maybe the general is doing exactly what they should?

Carspypics.comCarspypics.com

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[razoredge]

Sorry still makes no sence to me First I need to read it about 5 times to understand the trick language................. I think its saying they planned higher used resale value and screwed themselves.

Then I guess your figures are in dollar losses per average vehical on used resale ? If so and if the vehical cost 20,000 new and the buy back was 10,000 isnt that pretty good income for 9-12 months ? But then the additional 2000 loss is the kicker ?

So if Im following this correctly the problem is more after the fact not the initial sale ?

So it still comes back to Americans hating American vehicals and their unwillingness to buy them ?

I cant believe what used Hondas and Toyotas sell for, not to me they dont, Ive never seen a good deal on an Import, its like a luxury just in price.

[Drew Dowdell]

I loved my W-Body

All things considered, probably the best riding, most comfortable car I've owned.

Was reliable too. I never should have traded it on the CTS... but I had my heart set on the Caddy.

I know this isn't the case for everyone, but the ergonomics of the W-bodies just seem to fit me as a driver perfectly. It was like the car was tailored to fit around my body.

When I was shopping for a replacement for the Cutlass, I test drove a loaded Joseph Abuud Regal GS. Getting out of the Cutlass and into the Regal...everything just fit.

*sigh* I know this doesn't add anything to the thread.... but I wanted to add that.

[razoredge]

I second that, however useless it is. My Regal had a bit of a location problem with the window switches, a bit back too far. My wife could hardly reach them with the seat forward. Less of a problem for me but everything else was perfect. The seating and position proportions.

But

what the heck is a Joseph Abuud ?