MIDSIZE SEDANS

[regfootball]

I posted this in the Saturn Aura topic and thought it would make good banter as its own thread.

With all the new entries, tell us what or rank your family sedans.

Please try to exclude lux and near lux cars. This is middle class bread and butter cars.

I originally started comparing Aura vs. Fusion

then it brached out.

Here's my pecking order, taking into account to a small degree what the buff books may say and how complete a car it is for what you get. this does not neccessarily reflect what i would buy first.

1. 07 Altima

2A. Accord

2B. Aura

2C. Passat 2.0T

3A. Milan

3B. Fusion

4A. Cam-lee

4B. Impala

4C. 07 Sebring

5A. Mazda 6

5B. Malibu SS

5C. G6

5D. Galant Ralliart

6. LaCrosse

7. Grand Prix

8. Subaru Legacy

9. Chery

10. Sonata

11. Kia Optima

12. Susucki Verona

which ones did i miss?

Edited August 30, 2006 by regfootball

[Hudson]

I'm guessing that you have not driven many of these cars, by your ranking.

[Drew Dowdell]

You put Chery above even the Verona?

The Verona isn't a bad car, it doesn't deserve to be at the very bottom. It's worst offence is being underpowered for a 6 cylinder, but being an inline 6, it is quiet smooth and refined.

[pow]

My "conventional wisdom" ranking (excludes new '07s, apart from AURA; don't know enough about Altima or Sebring)...

1. Accord

2. Passat

3. Aura

4. Legacy

5. Camry

6. Fusion/Milan

7. Mazda6

8. Sonata

9. G6

10. Impala

11. LaCrosse

12. Galant

13. Grand Prix

14. Optima

15. Malibu

16. Verona

What I'd most likely buy myself, factoring in CarsDirect/TMV pricing, etc...

1. Passat 2.0T ($21k)

2. Fusion I4 S ($16k)

3. Aura XR ($24k)

4. Sonata GLS V6 ($17k)

5. Accord V6 SE ($22k)

6. Impala SS ($23K)

7. Mazda 6 s V6 ($18K)

8. Camry SE V6 ($25k)

9. Grand Prix GXP ($25K)

10. Legacy GT ($26K)

11. G6 Base ($15k)

12. Optima LX ($14.5k)

13. LaCrosse CX ($20k)

14. Malibu LT ($16.5k)

15. Galant DE ($18.5k)

16. Verona Base ($17.5k)

Edited August 30, 2006 by empowah

[Robert Hall]

midsize FWD family sedans aren't my thing, but if I had to buy one as a commuter car, I'd probably go with the Accord for the V6/6-spd manual availability.. it's interior is pretty nice also, and the reliability record..

I've driven an '05 Accord, ridden in an '06 Passat 2.0T w/ manual (pretty nice), ridden in a couple '06 Camrys (haven't been in a new one yet), and driven rentals of an '05 Malibu, Impala, and Grand Prix..

(while I am a software engineer, I refuse to drive the stereotypical teal green Camry).

Edited August 31, 2006 by moltar

[toyoguy]

1) Camry

2) Accord

those are the only two current models I've driven, I've ridden in a Mazda6 and a Grand Prix

[DetroitNut90]

The Mazda6 is at the top of my list. We have a 6 i I4 as a rental, and I'm very impressed. So my list looks like:

1) Mazda6 S V6

2) Aura XR

3) Fusion SEL V6

4) Milan Premier V6

5) G6 GTP

6) Passat 3.6

7) '07 Altima SL V6

8. Legacy GT

9) Impala SS

10) Malibu LTZ/SS

11) LaCrosse CXS

Edited August 31, 2006 by DetroitNut90

[Cory Wolfe]

1. 07 Altima

2A. Accord

2B. Aura

2C. Passat 2.0T

3A. Milan

3B. Fusion

4A. Cam-lee

4B. Impala

4C. 07 Sebring

5A. Mazda 6

5B. Malibu SS

5C. G6

5D. Galant Ralliart

6. LaCrosse

7. Grand Prix

8. Subaru Legacy

9. Chery

10. Sonata

11. Kia Optima

12. Susucki Verona

186770[/snapback]

I'm guessing that you have not driven many of these cars, by your ranking.

186849[/snapback]

1. Accord

2. Passat

3. Aura

4. Legacy

5. Camry

6. Fusion/Milan

7. Mazda6

8. Sonata

9. G6

10. Impala

11. LaCrosse

12. Galant

13. Grand Prix

14. Optima

15. Malibu

16. Verona

186919[/snapback]

Pretty much my thoughts, give and take a few.

[regfootball]

I'm guessing that you have not driven many of these cars, by your ranking.

186849[/snapback]

no, i quit my job so i could spend all week test drving cars.

[regfootball]

You put Chery above even the Verona?

The Verona isn't a bad car, it doesn't deserve to be at the very bottom.  It's worst offence is being underpowered for a 6 cylinder, but being an inline 6, it is quiet smooth and refined.

186872[/snapback]

the chery was a humor pick

[Flybrian]

no, i quit my job so i could spend all week test drving cars.

187303[/snapback]

You must've worked for Radio Shack...

[regfootball]

Pretty much my thoughts, give and take a few.

187281[/snapback]

ok, explain how my list is not valid in your jaded eyes.

empowah's list is not bad either, but i have valid reasons for my pecking order.

1. 07 Altima- this car should have the best all around combination of features, power, handling, style, interior, pricing. cvt, bluetooth, keyless start, killer v6, good prices, updated style. No major weaknesses.

2A. Accord-get by on rep. dull style. still, good power, decently executed if dated interior. lots of tranny and engine choices. they say Honda makes reliable cars.

2B. Aura- 250+ hp, 6 speed paddle shifters, style, great build quality, obscenely good pricing, killer saturn customer service. V6 power for 10-15k less than a v6 passat.

2C. Passat 2.0T- nice car...still its just a 4 popper. The interior is not as well executed as the previous version, neither is the exterior. Price is good for a four cylinder, but the v6 price is a phaeton like pipe dream.

3A. Milan- style, handling, price. Available AWD. Needs more motor and sexier interior. Could use more room.

3B. Fusion- see 3a, except with Gilette grille

4A. Cam-lee- good hp. that's about it. hybrid availability (although its far too pricey and can't come close to advertised mpg)......dull looks and diminishing interior quality. Recent recalls and tranny problems make entire car suspect. not a drivers car by any stretch. pricey for what you get. crappy toyota dealers. computer programmer teal green is sold out through 09.

4B. Impala- great value, mpg, e85, handsomely bland design, DoD. built solid.

4C. 07 Sebring- handsome interior, lots of neat features. German engineering.

5A. Mazda 6- handles well. Sporty Asian look, if you like it. Buzz bomb duratec motor, interior needs help, lacks a bit of room.

5B. Malibu SS- other Malibu models are looks challenged. SS handles well and has good power, while lacking OHC. Great value. lower versions of malibu have multiple issues.

5C. G6- not much to say. new engine and 6 speed on top version this year

5D. Galant Ralliart- nice exterior, new 250+ ho engine, 5 speed auto, handles great, priced good, great reliability ratings.

6. LaCrosse- old world taurus style. available 3.6, 4 sp auto only. a bit cramped with some compromised ergonomics.

7. Grand Prix- pancake roof. overhangs ribbed taillights. small block! 4 spped auto . good value. reliable. tight back seat. cheap center stack.

8. Subaru Legacy- pricey on some models. a little bit small. good quality and handsome interior.

9. Chery- better than toyota.

10. Sonata- good powertrain and decent driving. interior is a mess. rehashed escort style is ok to a point but is not distinctive or original. Lots of these in fleets. good value. worry about whether it holds up. third world plastics. mouse fur seats.

11. Kia Optima same as 10 except the v6 sucks.

12. Susucki Verona- in line 6 with no power and piss poor mpg.

Edited August 31, 2006 by regfootball

[regfootball]

You must've worked for Radio Shack...

187307[/snapback]

i did work at a best buy for five years, a LONG time ago.

[Robert Hall]

the chery was a humor pick

187305[/snapback]

I doesn't make sense to list the Chery, as it isn't even sold in NA and no one on the board has probably even seen one in person..

[regfootball]

again, humor to make a point of bad the verona is and how much kia and hyundai suck.

has all of America lost its sense of humor?

Edited August 31, 2006 by regfootball

[Matt276]

1) Camry

2) Accord

those are the only two current models I've driven, I've ridden in a Mazda6 and a Grand Prix

187200[/snapback]

Based on what I read on the net, the Camry is a big disappointment to many new owners. Transmissions issues, rattles, poor fit and finish... and the list goes on.

[Chicagoland]

Impala is a 'large car', according to the EPA. A stretched W body, so it is not 'mid sized'. Just like the full sized Avalon is a stretched Camry. And b4 one goes 'well the only large car is the Ford Crown..." The interior space on those is smaller than some FWD large cars [Ford 500].

And is some say Impala is 'mid sized', what is the Malibu? Can argue all day with personal biases, but when ranking cars, one has to use an industry standard, and the EPA size classes are most commonly used.

The Verona is DOA, so cross that one off, too.

The 2007 Sebring is not 'German engineering". IT is a platform that was from Mitsubishi, and then Chrysler used it. It may be owned by a German company, but the car was designed by Mitsu and the US arm of DCX.

Edited September 1, 2006 by Chicagoland

[regfootball]

try to cram your butt in the impala and tell em its full sized. ITS NOT. its a mid sizer.

[pow]

try to cram your butt in the impala and tell em its full sized.  ITS NOT.  its a mid sizer.

188034[/snapback]

But, but the trunk, engine compartment, and overhangs are!

[regfootball]

But, but the trunk, engine compartment, and overhangs are!

188064[/snapback]

maybe. but that's because the frame is designed around iron block ninety degree boat anchors of yore.

seriously. the impala is not a roomy car. its got a mid sized interior.

that's why all this regression from cab forward bothers me. we don't need longer hoods. we need SHORTER hoods....longer greenhouses, taller greenhouses and short short overhangs.

Jesus. An Intrepid with about 2 inches higher seats and about 3-4 inches higher roof and shorter overhangs would be perfect.

Edited September 2, 2006 by regfootball

[toyoguy]

Based on what I read on the net, the Camry is a big disappointment to many new owners. Transmissions issues, rattles, poor fit and finish... and the list goes on.

187607[/snapback]

Don't believe everything you read.

The Camry I drove was at the dealer, it had no transmission issues or rattles. I didn't pay close attention to the fit-and-finish. I came away impressed.

[Innotech]

1. Altima

2. Fusion

3. Milan

4. Mazda 6

5. Accord

6. Sonata

7. Legacy

8. Verona

9. Passat

10. Impala

11. G6

12. Malibu

13. Lacrosse

14. Grand Prix

15. Optima

16. Sebring

17. Galant

18. Cam- wait....

...

...

...

...

...

Second to last: Chinese cars......Chery

last: Camry

Edited September 3, 2006 by Innotech

[Drew Dowdell]

Don't believe everything you read.

The Camry I drove was at the dealer, it had no transmission issues or rattles.  I didn't pay close attention to the fit-and-finish.  I came away impressed.

188452[/snapback]

uhm, but you're not a new owner living with it everyday. You had a... what, 1 hour max with the car?

[regfootball]

1. Altima

2. Fusion

3. Milan

4. Mazda 6

5. Accord

6. Sonata

7. Legacy

8. Verona

9. Passat

10. Impala

11. G6

12. Malibu

13. Lacrosse

14. Grand Prix

15. Optima

16. Sebring

17. Galant

18. Cam- wait....

...

...

...

...

...

Second to last: Chinese cars......Chery

last:  Camry

188631[/snapback]

swap the verona and galant and i like that list! push sonata down there also. LOL

Edited September 3, 2006 by regfootball

[pow]

swap the verona and galant and i like that list!  push sonata down there also.  LOL

188649[/snapback]

... and the Passat up!

[toyoguy]

uhm, but you're not a new owner living with it everyday.  You had a... what, 1 hour max with the car?

188637[/snapback]

True, but I did have plenty of time w/the Accord.

It doesn'take long to appreciate the quietness of the Camry compared to the constant road noise of the Accord.

Or the vastly superior JBL audio.

The Camry feels much more secure at high speeds than the Accord

I found visibility better (ignoring the Camry's smaller sideviews).

I also much prefered the warmth of the Camry's interior compared to the sinister looking all black in the Accord.

The Camry's ride is smooth, the Accord's isn't.

The Accord's tiny hard buttons are not egronomic, while the Camry's large dials/buttons are.

The problem w/the Accord is it drives nearly identical to the 98-02 model. There is plenty of room for improvement and for Honda's sake the new 08 Accord better be a vastly superior product compared to the existing one.

Edited September 4, 2006 by toyoguy

[Cory Wolfe]

Honda... for the enthusiast minded tool. Toyota... for the senile minded tool. That explains it, Toyoguy.

[WCCPSGM]

1. Impala

2. Accord

3. Legacy

4. Sebring

5. Fusion/Milan (I prefer Mercury's look)

6. Galant

7. Malibu/G6

8. Passat

9. Lucern

10. 2007 Altima

11. Five Hundred/Montego (Yeah, technically they're big)

12. Camry (the previous gen would be MUCH higher, but I don't like the new schnoz)

13. Mazda6

14. Sonata/Optima

15. Verona

16. Stratus

Small Cars

1. 2007 Sentra

2. Rabbit

3. Jetta

4. Civic

5. Focus

6. Caliber

7. Corolla

8. Mazda3

9. Elantra/Spectra

10. Colbalt

11. Forenza

12. Lancer

I drive a Neon now and reluctantly acknowlage I have to move up for the growing kids. Impala tops my list for affordability, safety, size and power. I didn't include Charger/300 because it semed to be a front drive thing, but I would have to spend a lot of seat time in them to chose them over front drive. I would LOVE to have an excuse tobuy a new 07 Sentra.

[andretti]

1. Accord

2. Passat

3. Camry

4. Fusion/Milan

5. Altima

6. Mazda6

7. Sonata

8. Aura

9. G6

10. Galant

11. LaCrosse

12. Impala

13. Grand Prix

14. Optima

15. Verona

16. Malibu

[intrigued]

agree with your list pretty closley regfootball, I am glad you ranked the malibu SS so highly, id rank it above the G6 as well. Which is why I got one instead of a G6. standard 6 airbags on the SS and 5 star all around crash test and traction control = excellent safety. 3.9 pulls very strong, car can do a devent little burnout, with TC off. Sport seats are really comfortable attractive and have great support. good standard features. much better looking and sportier than the normal malbiu which is very bland. High high quality, with the 2005 JD Poer award for highest in class quality. Base price about 23500. Thats a LOT of car for the price. only option I got on my SS was the sunroof. 7k on the clock and im still grinning. Also the inteior materials are softer and nicer than the G6's.

[Drew Dowdell]

The Accord's tiny hard buttons are not egronomic, while the Camry's large dials/buttons are.

188937[/snapback]

Ergo a 1997 Pontiac Grand Prix v. a 1997 Buick Regal

[regfootball]

agree with your list pretty closley regfootball, I am glad you ranked the malibu SS so highly, id rank it above the G6 as well.  Which is why I got one instead of a G6.  standard 6 airbags on the SS and 5 star all around crash test and traction control = excellent safety.  3.9 pulls very strong, car can do a devent little burnout, with TC off.  Sport seats are really comfortable attractive and have great support.  good standard features.  much better looking and sportier than the normal malbiu which is very bland.  High high quality, with the 2005 JD Poer award for highest in class quality.  Base price about 23500.  Thats a LOT of car for the price.  only option I got on my SS was the sunroof.  7k on the clock and im still grinning.  Also the inteior materials are softer and nicer than the G6's.

190992[/snapback]

I only put the Malibu up higher than the Pontiac due to its greater functionality.

I think Chevy needs to address the interior and exterior of the car and I would still like to see the SS get the high feature v6.

Alas, 2008 brings a new Malibu. Hopefully, all around it addresses many things.

I think I might even be tempted to move the Galant Ralliart up higher. This is a car that will sneak up the list. The basic Galant v6 is a good all around performer, it lacks in interior and some detail refinement. The Ralliart package should get it very close to the Accord in performance and upgrade the looks and interior as well. I am predicting good magazine reviews for this car when it hits. They will still knock its weaknesses but like the overall package.

[Moto_08]

I actually think the Camry has to be at the top I've driven one and it's beautiful inside and out. I know this is an insult to some of what I have just said but something you hate so much you guys don't even give a chance... and no I don't mean reading reviews or actually punching the dash to say it rattles, treating the car like trash etc...Give it a chance...

[regfootball]

i didn't like the 07 camry's interior (i've sat in them) and the exterior does nothing for me either.,

Edited September 13, 2006 by regfootball

[scotthendersonfan]

1.) Accord - Fugly exterior but overall, it's a great car and the interior design still looks fresh after all these years.

2.) Altima - Not sure about reliability from new factory. But it looks to be a winner.

3.) Camry - After all the armchair Schumacher's are done pushing the limits of handling on interstate on-ramps, they'll realise that the Camry drives just fine for most people's driving purposes. Everything else is just uninformed internet forum "blah blah".

4.) Mazda 6 - I'm a huge fan of the Mazda 3. I'd love to get the MazdaSpeed 6 but the regular 6 is a pretty nice car as well.

5.) Aura - I haven't driven one, but it looks spectacular on the outside. The interior looks somewhat cheap (even with Moroccan leather) but I think it's a great car that offers a lot of features at a great price-point.

6.) Legacy - Nice sporty family car. Subaru safety is unmatched.

I like the Passat a great deal but the rest of the cars are take it or leave it. They're neither class leaders, nor are they sweeping the bottom. But personally, I wouldn't really pay $$ to buy one. For my money, I want the most car per dollar spent.

Quick notes - Sonata offers great value for the money and the new Hyundai cars are very high quality. But I still wouldn't get one thanks to terrible resale value.

The Fusion and Imapala are not bad cars. I've driven both and they're not too bad. But like I mentioned earlier, there's nothing there that makes me want to buy one over the top 6. The Ford fusion drives really well but I strongly dislike the interior. The design is fine but the materials, plastics, corporate radio etc. just remind me of Ford cheapness. Galant looks good on paper but no one's buying one and I'm guessing there's a reason, so I'm staying away. I wouldn't mind the G6 but I prefer some of the other cars. Malibu is too ugly for me to even consider. Lucerne is a great car but it's out of my price range for this segment.

What would I buy personally? Accord, Camry, Altima or Aura.

[carman21]

1) Accord

2) Altima

3) Aura

4) Legacy

5) Camry

6) Mazda 6

7) Sonata

8 ) Milan

9) G6

10) Passat

11) Fusion

12) Malibu

13) Optima

14) Galant

15) Verona

16) Sebring

17) Stratus

Edited October 29, 2006 by carman21

[Drew Dowdell]

True, but I did have plenty of time w/the Accord.

It doesn'take long to appreciate the quietness of the Camry compared to the constant road noise of the Accord. 

Or the vastly superior JBL audio.

The Camry feels much more secure at high speeds than the Accord

I found visibility better (ignoring the Camry's smaller sideviews).

I also much prefered the warmth of the Camry's interior compared to the sinister looking all black in the Accord. 

The Camry's ride is smooth, the Accord's isn't. 

The Accord's tiny hard buttons are not egronomic, while the Camry's large dials/buttons are.

The problem w/the Accord is it drives nearly identical to the 98-02 model.  There is plenty of room for improvement and for Honda's sake the new 08 Accord better be a vastly superior product compared to the existing one.

188937[/snapback]

that type of comparison is like picking up the taking home the second fattest girl a the bar and calling her skinny.

[red]

1. '07 Altima

2. Accord

3. Camry

4. Passat

5a. AURA

5b. Mazda 6

6. Fusion/Milan

7a. Sonata

7b. Subaru Legacy

7c. Galant

8. G6

9. Impala

10. '07 Stratus (if 3.5L V6 is offered)

11. '07 Sebring

12. Kia Optima

13. Pontiac Grand Prix

14. Suzuki Verona

My ratings are purely opinionated. I did not research this thoroughly, this is based on my perceptions, and from what I've analyzed, the midsize's target consumer's mindset and overall competitiveness. Basically, I'm looking at this from a desirability/market relevancy point of view. Price, sales, and my patriotic bias are not a factor here.

The Altima continues to be the gold standard. I'd take a marginal hit in reliability than rather be seen in an Accord or Camry. Defintely would invest in a good warranty, though. Overall, this car has the style, execution, differentiation, power, and great "perceived" quality.

The Accord and Camry continue to improve. Even with it's more "sporty" restyle and upgraded power, I'd still take the Accord based on looks and comfort. I really don't like a single seat that Toyota has made.

The new Passat, initially, looked like a winner. However, that interior I was jazzed up about took a hit in materials quality - the design is great, but the amazing quality of the previous generation just isn't there. I think the design could've been better. Still looks too bloated, rear wheels look especially weak in stance, and I'm still not sold on that giant, clearly plastic(chrome) grill.

The AURA is promising. If GM gets the build quality up, that'd really help. Also, longterm reliability is a big, big question.

The 6 is its own little beast. And that's what I like about it. Sporty, unique, & nice interior. Could use a power boost. I'm not as big on the Milan/Fusion simply based on styling and unforseen reliability.

I would have ranked the Sonata higher, but I'm well aware that Hyundai's reliability continues to be poor. However, the Sonata is a solid looker, has power, and a decent interior. Beware of Hyundai, their relative product improvement over previous generations are huge - and the only way seems up.

The G6 would benefit from the 3.6L V6 and a six-speed transmission. As would it benefit from a quality center stack and console.

The Impala, especially in SS form, looks really stealthy. Like the G6, tight gaps & well-executed surface details really add to the car's appeal. However, the interior is too plain in style and too cheap in materials. The lack of a 5 or 6 speed tranny adds to its weaknesses.

The Sebring will flop. The Stratus has a chance, but its long-term sustainability has little - a case of "hollow product" as seen in the 300 (not C), Magnum, Commander, et al.

The Kia Optima is grossly underpowered and very short on style. Kia reliability also stinks.

The Grand Prix is the symbol of old GM. Minus the rear, styling is simply ugly. Powertrain is outdated. Interior is laughable.

The Verona, while not that bad of a looker, is simply irrelevant.

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

Haven't been in many cars lately, but the Aura and Fusion are a toss-up for tops in the mid-sized classes, Malibu and G6 dead and near-last, respectively. Haven't seen the Sebring yet, but I'm not too keen on it because of the weak standard equipment levels and near worst-in-class cargo space (13.9 cubic feet vs. near-class-best 16.2 for the 2001-06 models). I sat in the discontinued Suzuki (correct spelling) Verona at the 2004 Auto Show in Rochester-spacious car, decent interior, of course the weak engine and Suzuki's weak and unknown reputation in the U.S. likely caused the slow sales, and why despite the unique Aerio and SX4, and improved Grand Vitara, they really haven't gotten anywhere despite being here since 1989.

[Intrepidation]

1. Dodge Avenger R/T

2. Nissan Altima

3. Saturn Aura XR

4. Ford Fusion

5. Mazda6

6. Linclon MXZ

7. Subrau Legacy

8. Toyota Camry w/ "S" trim

9. Honda Accord

10. Hyundai Sonata

11. Chrysler Sebring

[Intrepidation]

10. '07 Stratus (if 3.5L V6 is offered)

The Sebring will flop.  The Stratus has a chance, but its long-term sustainability has little - a case of "hollow product" as seen in the 300 (not C), Magnum, Commander, et al.

209803[/snapback]

The Stratus has been renamed Avenger.

[Ravenfreak13]

I was on yahoo auto's last week and there are loads of bad reviews for the camry....i was really shocked to see it...there were more bad ones then good ones. Mostly tranny and fit and finish complaints.

[frogger]

These are the models I would shop, placement would change depending a bit on budget. Unlisted ones I wouldn't consider owning.

1. 07 Altima SE

2. Legacy GT

3. Passat 2.0T

4. Aura XR

5. Accord SE v6

[VenSeattle]

Went to Seattle's Auto Show yesterday. Unfortunately, I didn't check my camera battery life before going. It was dead.

Mid-size disappointments:

Chrysler Sebring was on the floor. Sat in it. Just about everything is hard plastic except one or two pieces. I just can't see this thing being successful between the cheap interior and uncompetitive HP ratings. Exterior proportions continue to be awkward in person.

2007 Nissan Altima was on the stand. Just like I thought, it's too difficult to tell from the previous model. The features are impressive though. I really don't see the point of the Maxima any more. Speaking of the Maxima. Maxima's interior update looks cheap. The new wood pattern in the 2007 Buick LaCrosse puts the Maxima's plood to shame. Interior materials felt thin and hollow.

Spent more time in the Saturn Aura. Looks great on the outside, and the interior fit&finish is near perfect... but I couldn't live with it. I don't like it with the metal or wood interior trim. Interior styling is just an over-all disappointment. However, it should kill the Sebring and be successful attracting new buyers to Saturn.

Honda Accord's interior has way too much hard plastic (practically all of it.) I just don't see the styling appeal inside or out.

The Toyota Camry interior looks nice... just don't touch anything. Interior materials continue their spiral downward after each remodel. (Amazingly, even the Lexus ES350's lower dash is hard plastic, along with most of the center console. Very disappointing for a car that can go for $45k +. Yet people complain about the Lucerne?)

The Hyundai Azeras on the floor were all optioned out to their $31k maximum. For all the reasons mentioned on C&G, you'd have to be insane to purchase this car without a huge discount. Sales seem to indicate the public agrees.

The Buick LaCrosse has a much improved wood pattern that's warm and realistic. Interior materials still seem at their best for its class. Unfortunately, the LaCrosse is very dated and needs to be remodeled as soon as possible. Hopefully EPS II will continue with the interior material quality while providing a fresh package with modern powertrain. -- none of GM's midsize vehicles really have much appeal at the moment. Thankfully the new Malibu and LaCrosse aren't far away. Zeta isn't either. We can hope.

Recently I had a Ford Five Hundred SEL for a rental over 4 days. It's competent but has the soul of a Taurus. I could never own one... which includes the Montego twin. Fusion/Milan seem like a better alternative, but they both lack several features. The Lincoln MKZ is the only Ford mid-size sedan available (okay... any F-L-M sedan period) that's worth a look IMO.

Can't say much about the VW Passat either. Interior is nice to look at... but don't touch anything. The VW EOS is tiny, bland, and forgetful. For $37k-$40k (which was the price for the ones on display), save a few more dollars and buy the new Volvo C70 convertible.

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Honestly, I'm not really impressed by any mid-size sedan (GM or otherwise) that's currently out (or about to be released). All of them are flawed in some way or lack something to be desired. Yes... I mentioned a few from other categories, but they seemed appropriate given the context.

Okay okay... if I had to buy a midsize sedan right now? The only two I'd come close to considering are:

1) 2007 Lincoln MKZ (priced similar to top-of the-line Camries and Accords)

2) 2007 Buick LaCrosse CXS (it's comfortable, very reliable, gets the job done, quiet, great warranty,and has a nice discount attached to it)

but... I'll wait.

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Cars that impressed at the Auto Show:

Buick Lucerne CXS with Navi. Still my first pick if I decide to buy now or near future... but if the Enclave is any indication, I should probably hold off 2 or 3 years for the next LaCrosse & Lucerne.

The new Volvo S80's exterior looks too similar to the current one (they had them both near each other for comparison) but the interior is an amazing improvement. Very nice.

Audi A6 feels and looks bigger than it is. The interior has great attention to detail.

Mentioning the Mercedes S-class is pointless because it should be outstanding, but it really is beautiful inside and out. LS460 may be flawless (yes it was there on the floor and open), but L-Finesse has nothing over the new S-Class. It was funny to hear one woman on her cell-phone to her husband telling him that she'd meet him back at the Mercedes S-class before they left because she just had to see it one more time. Mercedes and Lexus were side-by-side in a narrow corridor. I doubt she missed the LS460... but she was only lusting after the S-Class.

Cadillac had a good showing. The CTS-V, STS-V, & XLR-V were all there and open. The STS-V resolves a lot of the interior styling/quality issues for the STS. It's a shame that the leather dash and upper door panels aren't on all STSs. The new SRX interior is very nice in person. Sales will definitely improve. The DTS had an interesting 2-tone interior package (Dark-brown seats and upper dash, with tan/cashmere lower) that made it feel more Audi-like (Q7 had something similar) than Cadillac. Very successful IMO. I liked it. The DTS interior addresses every issue I have with the Lucerne's interior. Why couldn't GM use the same interior materials across both lines?

The new Infiniti G35 looks great in person. Interior is tight though... especially the back seat. We're talking Chevy Cobalt tight. Still worth every penny though. I think the next CTS will be able to match it in style. It's the only contender who has a chance. The IS350 & BMW-3 don't IMO.

GMC Acadia was there on the platform. Looks like a winner. Didn't see many people noticing it though. I almost missed it myself. The display didn't stand out.

[regfootball]

yeah, those azeras get all sorts of press, but its amazing what you really think of them once you see one in person. very yucky.

The Hyundai Azeras on the floor were all optioned out to their $31k maximum. For all the reasons mentioned on C&G, you'd have to be insane to purchase this car without a huge discount. Sales seem to indicate the public agrees.

210092[/snapback]

[MyerShift]

Since most are automatic only, I suppose based on what I've seen, read, and encountered, I would have...

1) Saturn Aura- great Opel styling, great interior, 3.6L/6-speed auto

2) Volkswagen Passat- handsome Audi-esque looks, modern interior

3) Chrysler Sebring- freaky looks, but no doubt underrated, 3.5L/6-speed auto

4) Subaru Legacy- high quality interior, it's something different, AWD

5) Mercury Milan- handsome appearance, nice interor, Mazda6-based

6) Hyundai Sonata- handsome, understated, comfortable, quality interior

7) Pontiac G6- svelte, sleek looks but needs something more like interior/powertrain

8-) Mazda6- decent interior quality, sporting personality, but don't care for interior's syling

9) Mitsubishi Galant- like the interior, but exterior leaves me cold, Mitsu's questionable future

10) Kia Optima- underpowered, indistinct, tarted-down Sonata in presentation

Edited December 1, 2006 by MyerShift

[ImpalaPete]

1. 07 Altima

2A. Accord

2B. Aura

2C. Passat 2.0T

3A. Milan

3B. Fusion

4A. Cam-lee

4B. Impala

4C. 07 Sebring

5A. Mazda 6

5B. Malibu SS

5C. G6

5D. Galant Ralliart

6. LaCrosse

7. Grand Prix

8. Subaru Legacy

9. Chery

10. Sonata

11. Kia Optima

12. Susucki Verona

From that group, there is but one choice for me: Sube Legacy GT Limited Sedan, manual

[pow]

After looking at practically every midsize sedan today, I still think the Accord is best. The Passat is okay 'cause I like VWs, and the Fusion/Milan and Camry are tolerable, but everything else just seems cheap or half-assed.

Edit: Legacy is okay, too. But they're expensive.

Edit 2: The new Sebring is a piece of crap.

Edited December 2, 2006 by empowah

[MyerShift]

Sebring? Piece of crap how? Because it's ugly? Because you won't ever mistake it for anything else?

The only thing going for the Accord is its interior design (don't know about craftsmanship or texture, haven't cared to sit in it), powertrain(s), and chassis. But its exterior design is an offensive kind of bland, and it just blends in.

Perhaps Chrysler scored on the distinctiveness of the Sebring, but not in a good way.

Edited December 11, 2006 by MyerShift

[pow]

Sebring? Piece of crap how? Because it's ugly? Because you won't ever mistake it for anything else?

The only thing going for the Accord is its interior design (don't know about craftsnmanship or texture, haven't cared to sit in it), powertrain(s), and chassis. But its exterior design is an offensive kind of bland, and it just blends in.

Perhaps Chrysler scored on the distinctiveness of the Sebring, but not in a good way.

223180[/snapback]

Have you tried sitting in one? Its interior is easily worst-in-class. Everything about it screams cheap.