Quiet Tuning vs. Lexus ES 350

[Sajeev Mehta]

http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosconsumer/.../F03-345652.htm

Is this the Quiet tuning you're talking about?

I couldn't fault that quote: sure the Lucerne is quiet at cruising speeds...provided you never need to step into the throttle to pass or go up a hill.

How about this: I am getting a Lexus ES 350 for review next week (fingers crossed). I will come on C&G and personally give you my thoughts on Buick's quiet tuning compared to a Lexus. 

Well, I just came back from a 400mi trip in the Lexus ES 350 and here are my thoughts.

1) At 75mph, the Lexus ES has SIGNIFICANTLY more wind noise than a "Quiet Tuned" Lucerne.

2) The ES has a lot of road noise on coarse pavement, more than a Lucerne on any pavement I drove on.

3) Stomp the throttle for passing and the ES gives a muted howl, its much quieter than the Lucerne at WOT.

Forget the dB ratings at cruising speed and put the cruise control on in hilly conditions. The Northstar constantly reminds you that this ain't no Lexus. Need to pass someone? The 4-2 downshift really wakes up the Northstar and silences all interior conversations. I did that while talking with two passengers and everyone remained silent until I got off the throttle.

That doesn't happen in a Lexus. Good or bad? I donno. But it's not my definition of Quiet Tuning.

So I stand by my words, the Lucerne is a quiet car on the highway, provided you don't get on the gas much.

The Lucerne needs an engine as quiet as the Lexus ES to fit my definition of "quiet tuning."

Edited August 27, 2006 by Sajeev Mehta

[Flybrian]

Maybe its me, but I like that Northstar growl. Lexus engines make no noise and are therefore boring. Let me add to this by saying that I'd rather here a more audible growl from under the hood than under the tires and that my opinion comes from barely hearing my own 4.0 V8 at idle, yet it comes to life under throttle, as opposed to an LS430 I drove, whose engine kept nearly silent under all conditions.

I appreciate Lexus' achievement in this area, but it seems very mind-over-heart, very engineer > enthusiast, like printing out a Monet instead of having the real thing. Sure, its perfect, but it lacks that authentic, real texture. See, I knew that LS was quite faster than my car, you could see that plain as day. But the journey from x to xx mph just wasn't as...visceral.

I know some people like to be completely isolated; that's fine. Its a preference thing. Just let me hear that sweet power when its being used. I notice many high-horse German cars also stay rather quiet at idle and low RPMs but roar like a bitch when pushed. Its how you know something's alive under there and, IMO, part of the reason you own a car with so much horsepower.

[DetroitNut90]

I'm with Fly. The way I see it, 50% of an engine's performance is its sound. A nice growl is better than a quiet whirr anyday, at any time.

[Paolino]

I'm with Fly. The way I see it, 50% of an engine's performance is its sound. A nice growl is better than a quiet whirr anyday, at any time.

185332[/snapback]

I disagree... while I love a growl... there's something to be said about a smooth, quiet hum when flooring it. To me it says luxury--it's power on demand without intrusive sound. Loved it on an LS400 from years back. Loved it on an S500 a few years ago. Granted both those cars are out of the league we're talking about, but that's my point.

However, if I were to own a Lucerne, I would appreciate the growl--the only time I floor it is when I want to hear the engine as I blow past someone in anger. Otherwise, I prefer everything to be hush.

[pow]

There's more to successful acoustic engineering than making a car quiet. Here's an article on BMW that explains it all nicely...

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:WdJX-Er...lient=firefox-a

“Apart from the look of a vehicle, its acoustic behavior is the aspect most directly observable to the user,” says Dr. Peter Zeller, Director of Acoustics and Vibration at BMW. “The subjective impression of the car is shaped by its sound character. Drivers expect quietness at cruising and a particular acoustic feedback when they accelerate - the silky-smooth tonality in a luxury sedan and a rugged roar in a sports car. Acoustic design is therefore a critical task not simply for reasons of comfort, but also because it is a key means of conveying brand identity..."

...According to Dr. Zeller, a quiet comfortable sedan typically has low wind/rolling noise and a low level of engine noise. A vehicle that glides along very quietly at constant-speed travel, but whose engine roars as soon as the accelerator pedal is pressed is perceived as more sporty. On the other hand, a vehicle where high wind/rolling noise largely conceals the engine noise even at full load is lacking in character and is therefore not desirable.

[Cananopie]

Well, I just came back from a 400mi trip in the Lexus ES 350 and here are my thoughts.

1) At 75mph, the Lexus ES has SIGNIFICANTLY more wind noise than a "Quiet Tuned" Lucerne.

2) The ES has a lot of road noise on coarse pavement, more than a Lucerne on any pavement I drove on.

3) Stomp the throttle for passing and the ES gives a muted howl, its much quieter than the Lucerne at WOT.

The Lucerne needs an engine as quiet as the Lexus ES to fit my definition of "quiet tuning."

185328[/snapback]

Maybe I'm confused but 2 out of your 3 points Buick beats Lexus 350 (according to YOU) in quietness- yet it still isn't as "quiet as the Lexus ES to fit your definition of 'quiet tuning'"... WHAT? It has significantly less wind noise and road noise but because Buick uses an engine that, when accelerating (and I mean REALLY accelerating) reminds you of a low-growling muscle car and you say Buick needs to work on its engine...

Are you crazy?! You PREFER a muted howl to a low growl? And be serious- the growl is only heard when you're punching the gas- and you are upset you get to hear a powerful growl?! You are upset it reminds you of a muscle car when you're flooring it (you even admitted in your review you enjoyed thinking of the engine as a muscle car and you thought that Buick should market it as such- but the fact is 275 HP isn't a muscle car compared to other muscle sedans such as the 300)

Oh man- that has to be one of the best things about owning a GM car or a Buick in particular. I LOVE the growl my Regal makes when I floor it and I would never have it any other way. That growl does not signify less class, it signifies a force to be reckoned with. This is typical for all American cars (I believe)... you are asking Buick to have japanese engineering- that is where your bias comes from. Buick uses American engineering and you can hear it when you punch the gas...

that isn't a sign of quality- it is a sign of who made the vehicle- Buick shouldn't be Lexus. That low growl is a big reason that I enjoy riding a Buick more than a foreign made vehicle that whirs when you speed up.

It sounds like you put a lot of stock in to a "muted howl" but please don't discount all of Buick's quiet tuning because it isn't engineered from Toyota- thanks.

[sciguy_0504]

I thought one of the reasons you guys hated Lexus was how quiet and non-enthusiast they were? A Buick is even more silent...gasp!

[Paolino]

There's more to successful acoustic engineering than making a car quiet. Here's an article on BMW that explains it all nicely...

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:WdJX-Er...lient=firefox-a

185367[/snapback]

Yes, but that's a bimmer.. not a Buick. Big difference. No Buick on the current market is really geared towards giving the driver an phenominal driving experience, taking corners at high speeds, flying down the freeway.

[Sajeev Mehta]

However, if I were to own a Lucerne, I would appreciate the growl--the only time I floor it is when I want to hear the engine as I blow past someone in anger.  Otherwise, I prefer everything to be hush.

185362[/snapback]

I donno if you've drove one, but the northstar growls all the time. I like it, but my daily drivers have headers and 2.5" exhausts. Most prefer a Lexus-quiet motor.

[Sajeev Mehta]

Maybe I'm confused but 2 out of your 3 points Buick beats Lexus 350 (according to YOU) in quietness- yet it still isn't as "quiet as the Lexus ES to fit your definition of 'quiet tuning'"... WHAT? It has significantly less wind noise and road noise but because Buick uses an engine that, when accelerating (and I mean REALLY accelerating) reminds you of a low-growling muscle car and you say Buick needs to work on its engine..

We seem to have a communication problem, so let me make a couple points CRYSTAL CLEAR for you.

1. The Northstar growls all the time. Part throttle, full throttle, it doesn't matter. You only hear a Lexus come to life when you floor it.

2. Quiet Tuning is a joke if the motor is still loud. Unless you make the whole car quiet, you failed.

Edited August 27, 2006 by Sajeev Mehta

[Northstar]

I thought one of the reasons you guys hated Lexus was how quiet and non-enthusiast they were?  A Buick is even more silent...gasp!

185396[/snapback]

They never said they hated them being quiet when cruising, they said they hated them being quite when you floor them.

As for me, I would rather be able to hear the growl of the LS1 underhood even under moderate acceleration than having it be quiet. I usually drive with the windows down though, so it's not too hard to hear the engine and excellent exhuast note.

[Robert Hall]

I donno if you've drove one, but the northstar growls all the time. I like it, but my daily drivers have headers and 2.5" exhausts.  Most prefer a Lexus-quiet motor.

185413[/snapback]

I thought you said you drive a Lincoln..headers on a Lincoln???

[Robert Hall]

Yes, but that's a bimmer.. not a Buick.  Big difference.  No Buick on the current market is really geared towards giving the driver an phenominal driving experience, taking corners at high speeds, flying down the freeway.

185401[/snapback]

True enough..I like BMWs for the total performance 'ultimate driving machine' experience---great handling, feel, great sound, etc...

but in a luxury car, I see silence, isolation, smooth ride being top priorities, whether it's a Lexus, Buick, Lincoln, Benz, etc...

[Sajeev Mehta]

I thought you said you drive a Lincoln..headers on a Lincoln???

185418[/snapback]

Damn right. Headers on my Mercury Cougar too.

Edited August 27, 2006 by Sajeev Mehta

[Paolino]

We seem to have a communication problem, so let me make a couple points CRYSTAL CLEAR for you.

1. The Northstar growls all the time.  Part throttle, full throttle, it doesn't matter. You only hear a Lexus come to life when you floor it.

2. Quiet Tuning is a joke if the motor is still loud.  Unless you make the whole car quiet, you failed.

185416[/snapback]

Quiet Tuning isn't a joke if the motor is still loud.. the point of Quiet Tuning is to make the vehicle QUIETER. I'd think the engine would be louder if the car wasn't QuietTuned.

[Cananopie]

We seem to have a communication problem, so let me make a couple points CRYSTAL CLEAR for you.

1. The Northstar growls all the time.  Part throttle, full throttle, it doesn't matter. You only hear a Lexus come to life when you floor it.

2. Quiet Tuning is a joke if the motor is still loud.  Unless you make the whole car quiet, you failed.

185416[/snapback]

Okay- so Lexus doesn't fail even though it has "SIGNIFICANTLY more wind noise than a 'Quiet Tuned' Lucerne" and Lexus doesn't fail for "a lot of road noise on coarse pavement, more than a Lucerne on any pavement I drove on."

But Buick fails completely because of an engine that purrs. I'm glad you made that "CRYSTAL CLEAR" for me.

I didn't know wind noise and road noise didn't count for when making a whole car quiet.

Edited August 27, 2006 by Cananopie

[Sajeev Mehta]

Okay- so Lexus doesn't fail even though it has "SIGNIFICANTLY more wind noise than a 'Quiet Tuned' Lucerne" and Lexus doesn't fail for "a lot of road noise on coarse pavement, more than a Lucerne on any pavement I drove on."

But Buick fails completely because of an engine that purrs. I'm glad you made that "CRYSTAL CLEAR" for me.

185426[/snapback]

I never said the Lexus doesn't fail, did I? Whatever makes you feel better.

I got plenty to complain about with the Lexus, but that's for the road test review on TTAC, not for C&G.

Edited August 27, 2006 by Sajeev Mehta

[Sajeev Mehta]

Quiet Tuning isn't a joke if the motor is still loud.. the point of Quiet Tuning is to make the vehicle QUIETER.  I'd think the engine would be louder if the car wasn't QuietTuned.

185425[/snapback]

If Buick had an engine on par with the Lexus, it would truly be "Quiet Tuned".

Simple as that.

Edited August 27, 2006 by Sajeev Mehta

[VenSeattle]

Wait a minute. How can the Northstar's growl be that annoying if the Lucerne can (and does) get quieter than an ES when cruising?

[Sajeev Mehta]

Wait a minute. How can the Northstar's growl be that annoying if the Lucerne can (and does) get quieter than an ES when cruising?

185429[/snapback]

Because it growls all the time.

Have you folks driven a Lucerne and its competition?

Edited August 27, 2006 by Sajeev Mehta

[VenSeattle]

Because it growls all the time.

Have you folks driven a Lucerne and its competition?

185430[/snapback]

YES! And the Northstar sounds perfectly fine. However wind and road noise (sounds I wouldn't expect to hear) would annoy me.

[Sajeev Mehta]

YES! And the Northstar sounds perfectly fine. However wind and road noise (sounds I wouldn't expect to hear) would annoy me.

185432[/snapback]

I like the sound too.

But don't tell me that ride is quiet tuned, with both on the highway, at least the Lexus is dead silent sometimes.

Edited August 27, 2006 by Sajeev Mehta

[VenSeattle]

I like the sound too. 

But don't tell me that ride is quiet tuned, with both on the highway, at least the Lexus is dead silent sometimes.

185436[/snapback]

Compared to my Park Avenue (and the Seville STSs I've rented in the past), the Lucerne is noticeably Quiet Tuned. You can barely hear the AC while driving. Road and wind noise are minimal under the worst conditions. I'm not saying the ES isn't successful at its task either, but the Lucerne w/ Quiet Tuning accomplishes its mission. Hearing a DOHC V8 isn't a negative in the Lucerne's case. The V8 growl is what appeals to a lot of potential buyers because those 2 extra cylinders make a difference to them.

I've heard too many bitter arguments about how unrefined the OHV V6 is... how it sounds coarse. People screamed for GM to put a DOHC engine in the Lucerne. GM did. Now people are complaining because they can just hear the engine... if any at all. Sorry, but some people don't want to be satisfied.

Edited August 28, 2006 by VenSeattle

[Cananopie]

I never said the Lexus doesn't fail, did I? Whatever makes you feel better.

I got plenty to complain about with the Lexus, but that's for the road test review on TTAC, not for C&G.

185427[/snapback]

Successful Quiet Tuning according to your definition. I have driven the Northstar V8 and your complaint about the incessant growling is equally comparable to living about 2 miles away from a railroad track in the country and constantly complaining about hearing the trains drive by when your home should be dead-silent.

Or better yet a toddler who is upset that his mother is making him breakfast in the kitchen and wants to ONLY hear the TV or NOTHING and screams at his mother that he doesn't want to hear the sizzling bacon or the toaster pop and wants complete silence so he can watch TV.

Typically most people ignore these childish antics, in the case of the person who is upset about trains passing two miles away that intrude his silence by shaking their head and walking away (knowing that if he didn't want to hear a train, he shouldn't have moved by the tracks, let alone how HARD you have to try to let it annoy you enough to call it a problem), or try and explain calmly that it is possible to still enjoy the TV without having the kitchen completely silent and still get breakfast.

But a spoiled child and an irritable man will always find a reason to not back down.

Edited August 27, 2006 by Cananopie

[Sajeev Mehta]

Works for me!

[GMman]

If Buick had an engine on par with the Lexus, it would truly be "Quiet Tuned".

Simple as that.

185428[/snapback]

I wouldn't consider owning a camry, I mean a lexus, whether it's quiter than a Lucerne at WOT or not. It doesn't meet my definition of a great looking car..plus it's foreign. I like American luxury. Hopefully the next generation Lucerne will meet everyone's 'individual' definition of 'quiet tuned' and we can all be happy. :AH-HA_wink:

[deftonesfan867]

Man you seem really contint on making a point to all of us on how "quiet tuning" doesn't exsit.

[Flybrian]

Again, I think this particular aspect of noise reduction is much in the ear of the beholder.

We can all agree that wind and roadnoise are detrimental, intrusive, and not part of a rewarding driving experience in all but an open cockpit roadster. Engine noise, however, is obviously subjective. Some (myself included) love to hear it when appropriate. Others wish to silence it altogether. I think hearing a healthy roar is part of owning a powerful car; others believe hearing even silence throughout is part of owning a powerful car. Even the Buick fans themselves are split on this preference.

So who's right? Who's wrong? No one. Again, this is a preference and part of what seperates Buick from Lexus, IMO. I do not want Buicks rigged for ultra quiet the way a Lexus is. If I wanted near total isolation, I'd gladly buy a Lexus. In the same way, I don't want a CTS to handle exactly like a 3er; I don't want a GTO to be quite as 'refined' as a G35. These little differences make different vehicles unique. Asking me, many a-great car has suffered by trying to be just like xxx when they shouldn't be. Individualism reigns over assimilation, or at least I'd hope.

As far as Sajeev's editorial, I disagree with his conclusions, but I find nothing inherently 'unfair' with it. He did what any decent reviewer (should) do; reported the facts first and foremost, then punctuated with his opinion.

[pow]

Plus, the fact that one hears the Northstar doesn't make the cabin any noisier per se, but rather it's an additional pitch or tone in the background, no higher in decibel. A truly sophisticated car should always have aural feedback, IMO, without being intrusive.

[balthazar]

Sajeev's editorial.... I find nothing inherently 'unfair' with it. He did what any decent reviewer (should) do; reported the facts first and foremost, then punctuated with his opinion.

Did he?? Or did he omit reiterating that it was his opinion in his hurry to slap a fat "failure" judgment on a Buick, then dance with glee around it, pointing and gibbering?

Just asking.

[Sajeev Mehta]

Thanks for your perspective on my perspective, Brian. Your comment on individualism vs. mundane was spot on.

Did he?? Or did he omit reiterating that it was his opinion in his hurry to slap a fat "failure" judgment on a Buick, then dance with glee around it, pointing and gibbering?

Just asking.

185603[/snapback]

Oh yeah, I can tell by your tone that you're just asking. Grow up.

I slapped my judgement on the Lucerne months ago (my first review), the good folks at C&G read it, we had some fun...but now its the ES's turn for judgements.

[Sajeev Mehta]

Man you seem really contint on making a point to all of us on how "quiet tuning" doesn't exsit.

185564[/snapback]

Like I promised on the other thread:

How about this: I am getting a Lexus ES 350 for review next week (fingers crossed). I will come on C&G and personally give you my thoughts on Buick's quiet tuning compared to a Lexus.

I donno why I felt obligated to give a Quiet-Tuned comparo to C&G, but I did. That's why this thread exists.

Edited August 28, 2006 by Sajeev Mehta

[Sajeev Mehta]

I wouldn't consider owning a camry, I mean a lexus, whether it's quiter than a Lucerne at WOT or not.  It doesn't meet my definition of a great looking car..plus it's foreign.  I like American luxury.  Hopefully the next generation Lucerne will meet everyone's 'individual' definition of 'quiet tuned' and we can all be happy. :AH-HA_wink:

185560[/snapback]

Very well said.

[razoredge]

Oh boy ! An educated moron trying to unrationalize the rational. Way over my head. Grow up yourself, when you do you will figure out what quite tuning represents.....................actually just read your "report" and F O C U S, then you will actually understand.

If you are still confused, go start an artical on how the GM engine is louder than the Lexus engine

Not an artical on cabin quite tuning thrown a curve ala engine noise comparision.

Now lets put some snow tires on the front of that bad boy and complain about how we can hear the tires growling......................

Dut da da

[Drew Dowdell]

I've rented Devilles from the pre-quiet tuning era numerous times. I'm not sure what you're hearing, but at 80mph the Northstar is silent, there is no "constant growl".

Heck, not even my CTS with a V6 which has to work harder has a "constant growl" and it's not quiet tuned either.

[razoredge]

Thats nothing, you should hear the old antiquated 30 year old 38, in the old antiquated 20 year old H body. growls like a rabid wolf, thrashes like a hare in a leg trap, kackles like a flock of ravins in a spruce tree, why, its so bad, we can hardly hear each other talk, we've played the stereo so loud just to hear it, that the speakers are shot!

Went to the Doctors to find out why my hearing was becoming muted, first thing he asked me was ..........."you be drivin one of dem dar old Buick turtyeight hunrens's ?

I says "huh?"

he say "ya, dats wat I tout"

[Drew Dowdell]

I like the sound too. 

But don't tell me that ride is quiet tuned, with both on the highway, at least the Lexus is dead silent sometimes.

185436[/snapback]

If you can't hear the Lexus engine due to the sound of the road noise, that doesn't mean the Lexus is quieter.

If that were the case, a 2001 Civic is quieter than a Lucerne.

[Sajeev Mehta]

If you can't hear the Lexus engine due to the sound of the road noise, that doesn't mean the Lexus is quieter.

186127[/snapback]

Folks, I never said the Lexus was quieter. Matter of fact, the Lexus is noisy: bad enough to detract from the stereo's (good, not great) sound quality. So far I am not impressed with this car above 65mph.

I am using the Lexus' engine to show what "Quiet Tuning" is supposed to be. If the Lucerne had a motor as smooth and silent as the Lexus, it would deserve the QT moniker.

I know you all don't care about my definition of Quiet Tuning, so I'll stop defending myself.

[Drew Dowdell]

Folks, I never said the Lexus was quieter.  Matter of fact, the Lexus is noisy: bad enough to detract from the stereo's (good, not great) sound quality.  So far I am not impressed with this car above 65mph.

I am using the Lexus' engine to show what "Quiet Tuning" is supposed to be.  If the Lucerne had a motor as smooth and silent as the Lexus, it would deserve the QT moniker.

I know you all don't care about my definition of Quiet Tuning, so I'll stop defending myself.

186161[/snapback]

Your definition of Quiet Tuning? What about Buick's defintion:

QuietTuning uses enhanced insulators, denser acoustic materials, improved sealing techniques, special quiet-tread tires, acoustic laminate glass, and strategically positioned acoustic absorbers and seals to help prevent exterior noise from reaching the driver and passengers. You'll be amazed at what you don't hear.

it really doesn't have anything to do with the engine

[Cananopie]

I am using the Lexus' engine to show what "Quiet Tuning" is supposed to be.  If the Lucerne had a motor as smooth and silent as the Lexus, it would deserve the QT moniker.

I know you all don't care about my definition of Quiet Tuning, so I'll stop defending myself.

186161[/snapback]

It's not that we "don't care" about your definition moreso than you're making up your own definition of Quiet Tunining, which was made specifically for Buick and has no previous standard to live up to with its quiet tuning. As Olsmoboi showed the definition does not say "complete and utter absense of any engine noise"... you're making that up yourself.

An American V8 is meant to be heard and you should know that. It's not meant to be too loud that when you're on your cell phone in your car you can't hear the person talking to you (like road noise, wind noise, AC on crappy cars, or a buzzing 4 cyl, these problem arises often with other cars, including the Lexus). It certainly is not that loud. It's only loud enough to know you're driving a Northstar V8. The noise it makes isn't from quality problems or because it is an unrefined engine- the noise it makes is a purr... and when you floor it it's a growl... and it's a perfect sound for an American engine.

The fact that you're nitpicking it to this degree shows how much of a success Buick's quiet tuning is. And hey, contrary to your article, you yourself now believe Buick out-Lexused Lexus. (unless of course you think hearing road and wind noise constantly is more refined sound deadening than vaguely hearing the Northstar V8.)

It's not that we don't care about your definition- it's just that you can't make up a standard for Buick to have a different definition of quiet tuning than what it gave. Sure- you don't like the sound of the engine- but you also are obviously not a Buick fan. The engine is always an integral part of a Buick and the purr a powerful Northstar V8 is something to celebrate- not hide. That is why it's a controversial topic. People pay big bucks for that V8, I know I'd want to hear it purring for me.

The sound of a Lexus engine, even at low speeds, is not how a good engine sounds in my book and in thousands of others either- be careful what you believe Buick should do because simple things like this mean a lot to potential customers- especially since you're not one don't change what it should be even though you wouldn't buy the car either way.

Edited August 29, 2006 by Cananopie

[Sajeev Mehta]

it really doesn't have anything to do with the engine

186163[/snapback]

Not true. When I was at Buick's Canadian junket, the quiet tuning demo included intake resonance killers. That is, the product manager mentioned the engine in particular. Here's the pic of the LaX's quiet tuned engine cover:

Sorry I don't have one for the Lucerne, but it also has a big airbox that's supposed to be tuned for quietness. Well its not.

Cananopie makes a lot of good points, and yes, I make my own extremely high standard for quiet tuning. Why?

1) GM's sales and profits are in the dumper.

2) Aside from pickups, GM's products have consistently underperformed.

3) Buick is in a serious depression and their self-proclaimed benchmark is Lexus.

4) I have this fundamental belief that you have to give 110% to beat your global competition.

So yes, Quiet tuning works well in a lot of driving conditions. But at the end of the day, is it enough to appeal to owners of America's favorite luxury car brand? Is it enough to give up on Lexus' nearly faultless quality and dealer service? Is it enough to keep Buick dealerships afloat?

That's the question every GM fan has to ask: its do or die right now.

Edited August 29, 2006 by Sajeev Mehta

[Drew Dowdell]

see that big blank space in the center of the engine bay? you know, the part with no colors to indicate represent an area that's has quiet tuning?

yeah, that's where the engine goes.

There is no difference in the engine of a LaCross and the engine in the GrandPrix. Buick added a padded cover over the engine. That's all.

Quiet tuning is padding, insulation and a different resonator. That's all.

[toyoguy]

Oh yeah, I can tell by your tone that you're just asking. Grow up.

185613[/snapback]

spoken like a true hypocrite.

[pow]

spoken like a true hypocrite.

186393[/snapback]

Awww... is it because he found your beloved Toyota too loud?

[toyoguy]

Awww... is it because he found your beloved Toyota too loud? 

186396[/snapback]

nope, it's because when I asked him for a review of a car under $50k he likes, he points out an old Lincoln.

he also reminds me of an old roomate who's negativity was annoying but never to be taken seriously.

[Sajeev Mehta]

nope, it's because when I asked him for a review of a car under $50k he likes, he points out an old Lincoln.

he also reminds me of an old roomate who's negativity was annoying but never to be taken seriously.

186410[/snapback]

It was a Mercury. I also liked the RAV4 I drove, but didn't have a chance to write about it.

One thing's for sure, you need to get over your roomate.

Edited August 29, 2006 by Sajeev Mehta

[Flybrian]

he also reminds me of an old roomate who's negativity was annoying but never to be taken seriously.

186410[/snapback]

Its like looking in a mirror!

[DenCo]

What I would like to know is how a little growl from the engine (and I have decent experience with Buicks), could somehow render all of he rest of the QuietTuning package as useless to you.

Why is it that you dmit that it is generally quieter than the competition, but then you claim the engine to be much too noisy, so QuietTuning is instantly stamped as a failure and the Lexus is better because the engine is quieter?

I know it should be easy to understand your logic behind this: after all, you already have stated that Buick would never be as good as Lexus, no matter what.So of course this comes as no surprise! But I still can't understand how a person could argue that the Buick would need to beat the Lexus in ALL ways rather than most, just to be considered "on par".

Also, I've heard the GM "deep growl" and I must say that it's not that loud; so the sound difference is more of a preference thing and would kind of fall right into the whole "classic American luxury" thing Buick is going for.

[Flybrian]

Also, I've heard the GM "deep growl" and I must say that it's not that loud; so the sound difference is more of a preference thing and would kind of fall right into the whole "classic American luxury" thing Buick is going for.

186447[/snapback]

Exactly.

To answer Sajeev's question earlier this page as to how Buick intends to sell to satisfied Lexus owners - stunning style and American performance. These are two hallmarks Buicks owns but hasn't utilized much lately.

[Sajeev Mehta]

What I would like to know is how a little growl from the engine (and I have decent experience with Buicks), could somehow render all of he rest of the QuietTuning package as useless to you.

186447[/snapback]

Why? Because its not a "package" unless they mute the engine. And I think its more than just a little growl.

Buick's gotta cover the whole enchalada with salsa if they expect to survive the Lexus Invasion. Again, that's my opinion after experiencing both the Lucerne and the Lexus ES.

I ask other C&G members to test a Lucerne V8 and Lexus ES and come to their own conclusions. I don't corner the market on test driving cars, ya know.

Edited August 29, 2006 by Sajeev Mehta