Future of GM Powertrains

[Flybrian]

GM powertrain plans: Variety - but no diesel yet

Richard Truett | | Automotive News / August 21, 2006 - 6:00 am

General Motors' powertrain division is rolling out a variety of fuel-saving, high-tech engines; hybrid powertrains; and six-speed automatic transmissions.

Because of high costs, GM does not plan to add diesels to passenger cars and light trucks before at least 2010.

Here's a look at GM's strategy:

Hybrids: GM plans a dozen hybrids by the end of the decade. But only eight models have been named thus far. GM's hybrid plans are much like its engine strategy. Some hybrid powertrains will be high-value and some high-feature.

GM's first real hybrid, the Saturn Vue Greenline, is on the way to dealerships. The Vue Greenline, a mild hybrid, boosts fuel economy by 20 percent and gives the compact SUV a best-in-class highway figure of 32 mpg, GM says. The company will market the vehicle as the first affordable hybrid. The option is priced at only $1,995, putting the cost of the vehicle in the low $20,000s.

The next hybrids in the pipeline are the Saturn Aura in the first half of the 2007 model year, followed by the Chevrolet Malibu later next year. Both cars use the Greenline's belt-alternator hybrid system. GM says it can install this system in any vehicle that uses the Ecotech four-cylinder engine.

Next, GM plans to roll out its first full hybrids in the Chevrolet Tahoe, GMC Yukon and Cadillac Escalade. The 2008 Tahoe hybrid arrives in late 2007, followed by the Yukon. In 2008 comes the Escalade, which may be a 2009 model. Those vehicles use a rear-wheel-drive transmission with two electric motors.

GM calls the transmission the Two-Mode, and it is being developed with BMW and DaimlerChrysler. The Two-Mode is also slated for use in GM's crew-cab pickups around 2008.

GM is likely to round out its planned dozen hybrids by expanding the Two Mode into other truck-based vehicles.

The automaker is testing a diesel-electric hybrid powertrain for the Opel and Saab brands. A GM insider says costs could be brought under control, and production is possible.

Diesels: Unlike Ford and the Chrysler group, GM has no plans to install fuel-saving diesel engines in North American cars or light trucks. GM has built and tested a V-6 version of the Duramax diesel V-8 but shelved the engine two years ago. The barriers were technical challenges and the cost of an emissions system that meets upcoming air quality regulations.

"We think we can do it, but it is going to mean that light-duty diesels are going to have several thousand dollars worth of additional control and after-treatment technology," GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz said recently.

One possibility: GM could use Saab to break into passenger-car diesels in the United States, as Ford Motor Co. might with its Volvo brand.

GM's lone diesel for the United States, the Duramax V-8 used in heavy-duty pickups, is being revamped for 2007. The engine, due in the first quarter of 2007, may grow in size and power.

Production at the Moraine, Ohio, engine plant is limited to about 180,000 engines per year. GM does not plan to add capacity, even though it could sell many more, said Tom Stephens, GM Powertrain Group vice president.

Gasoline engines: Look for GM to boost its corporate average fuel economy numbers and lower emissions by equipping more gasoline engines, both push-rod and overhead-cam, with high-tech features. That includes such things as direct fuel injection and variable valve timing. Turbochargers also could gain wider use as GM boosts fuel economy by shrinking engines.

The optional 260-hp, 2.0-liter turbocharged, direct-injected four-cylinder in the Pontiac Solstice GXP and Saturn Sky Redline could signal GM's future strategy for ultrapowerful small-displacement engines. Meanwhile, GM in 2007 plans to expand the availability of its fuel-saving cylinder cutoff technology from V-8 truck engines to the 3.9-liter V-6 in the Chevrolet Malibu.

GM plans to offer 14 vehicles in 2007 that can run on E85 ethanol. It is the only automaker certified to sell E85 vehicles in all 50 states.

Transmissions: GM's plans to boost fuel economy also include using a greater number of six-speed automatic transmissions. In July, production of a new front-wheel-drive six-speed automatic started in a Detroit area factory. GM expects a 4 percent fuel economy gain from the six-speed over the four-speed it replaces.

GM plans to use the gearbox in numerous models, including the Pontiac G6, Saturn Aura and GMC Acadia. The gearbox also can be used in all-wheel-drive applications.

GM is also moving to six-speed automatics in rear- and all-wheel drive vehicles such as the Cadillac SRX and STS.

[SimonDavid]

So in summary

No diesels and no true hybrids in passenger cars for the rest of the decade

[BuddyP]

..."GM has built and tested a V-6 version of the Duramax diesel V-8 but shelved the engine two years ago"...

Stupid move to shelve the project. What the Colorado needed from day one, was a 4 cylinder deisel option. You'd have great torque and gas milage for a small truck. Ford is going to have a small V8 diesel in the F150 soon and now GM is going to lag way behind.

[roadwarrior]

I'm curious to see the enhancements to the duramax for '07. Given that I'd like to buy a diesel 1-ton in a few years, that's the most important item on this list for me.

Guess I'll just have to see what happens when the new Silverado/Sierra HD's come out in Q1...

[bcjohnso99]

So in summary

No diesels and no true hybrids in passenger cars for the rest of the decade

183319[/snapback]

My next two vehicles, a light duty pick-up and a hatch/wagon will be purchased in summer 2008. They will both be diesels and now they look like they won't be from GM.

Way to miss out on $60,000+ in revenue GM, and I won't be in the market to replace them until at least 2016.

B.

[Drew Dowdell]

So in summary

No diesels and no true hybrids in passenger cars for the rest of the decade

183319[/snapback]

there is missing info.... the new transmission based hybrid is supposed to work in either FWD or RWD applications.

I can't see GM putting out a FWD truck..... they aren't honda afterall....

[Drew Dowdell]

My next two vehicles, a light duty pick-up and a hatch/wagon will be purchased in summer 2008. They will both be diesels and now they look like they won't be from GM.

Way to miss out on $60,000+ in revenue GM, and I won't be in the market to replace them until at least 2016.

B.

183367[/snapback]

So you're only going to buy VW or Mercedes <for the hatch/wagon> or.... hum.. I don't even know about the light duty truck diesel unless Dodge makes one.

[Igor2]

So you're only going to buy VW or Mercedes <for the hatch/wagon> or.... hum.. I don't even know about the light duty truck diesel unless Dodge makes one.

183370[/snapback]

in 2008, there wil likely be no diesel in light truck ... unless Ford makes it with the 4.4l ... that is a possibility.

by 2008 VW and DCX should be back, but in limited versions .. only the 1.9lTDI 4 from Jeta will be in VW, and DCX might only have their big V8's.

Diesel rennesaince will not strat until 2009 or 2010 .. but then both Honda and Ford will have LD and car diesels.

Igor

[SimonDavid]

By true hybrids I meant dual mode not light hybrid via a BAS

I guess they dont get middle east news in Detroit, the papers here in London are full about how a massive regional conflict is only about 2 years away

[Drew Dowdell]

By true hybrids I meant dual mode not light hybrid via a BAS

I guess they dont get middle east news in Detroit, the papers here in London are full about how a massive regional conflict is only about 2 years away

183406[/snapback]

They're wrong, it's here already.

but anyway, the FWD hybrid transmission is not a BAS. It's a full two mode hybrid just like the one coming in the Tahoe.

[G. David Felt]

Damn, Guess this means they will waste the space under the hood of the new SUV's and miss out on a butt load of sales by having the duramax in the new SUV lineup. Some people just do not seem to get it.

[Igor2]

I just want to ask ... because I know that Auto news is sometimes wrong ... anyone has any info to the contrary of the Autonews reports?

After all, Autonews is notoriously CONSERVATIVE .. if they are not POSITIVE it will happen, they are quite likely to dismiss it as not happening.

Igor

Edited August 22, 2006 by Igor2

[FAPTurbo]

To the admin and all memebers of C&G... I apologize for any bad language used in the following posting....

f@#k. WHY...IN...THE...f@#k... are they not building a small Duramax. We want that Diesel Avy bad. Hell, every time my dad asks the loacal dealers about the possibilty of a diesel Avalanche, they respond saying if they got a nickel everytime that question, they wouldn't be owning the dealership.

GM... what are you thinking?

[Carguy]

I wish they would work on a SAAB turbo diesel I4-V6 HIGH FEATURE line and use it in SATURN as an VW like opt. I could see a TD 2.2L I4 in the AURA as an opt. above the base car and a TD 3.6L V6 in the OUTLOOK and a possible MINIVAN also as an opt. :wink:

[91z4me]

I just want to ask ... because I know that Auto news is sometimes wrong ... anyone has any info to the contrary of the Autonews reports?

After all, Autonews is notoriously CONSERVATIVE .. if they are not POSITIVE it will happen, they are quite likely to dismiss it as not happening.

Igor

183424[/snapback]

Yeah I have read reports less than 3 months ago of a V6 diesel, 4.9 if I remember right, and a smaller car/midsize truck diesel around 2.9-3.0 liters. In fact it was confirmed on another board that the displacements were correct, though the articl claimed the 4.9 was a V8.

I think they are totally off their game in the diesel area.

Also the 2 mode hybrid system will be/has been adapted to the FWD 6 speed autos for use in Theta crossovers and likely Epsilon cars.

As far as other diesels I expect that Euro diesels will be brought over to the US in the Saturn cars since they will essentially be the same cars but built in different places.

[mjd1001]

The 3.9 in the Malibu gets DOD/Active fuel management? I think that is wrong. I know the Impala gets it in 07, but the Malibu keeps the same non DOD 3.9 as in 06.

[carman21]

The HF V-6s need Dual VVT and DFI now!. Dual AFM and Dual Hybrids will be competing over the next decade to see which is better. Dual AFM is decades ahead of hybrids in technical sophistication. Dual AFM is also better since it requires a more simple system hence the phrase "keep it simple stupid". Hybrids are not cost effective.

[loki]

The 3.9 in the Malibu gets DOD/Active fuel management?  I think that is wrong. I know the Impala gets it in 07, but the Malibu keeps the same non DOD 3.9 as in 06.

183491[/snapback]

maybe they're hoping it's on the 3.9 in 08?.... w/ a 6speed of course

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

No diesels= DUMB IDEA

Slow and limited hybrid rollout= DUMB IDEA

Slow and limited technology rollout= DUMB IDEA....

This article pretty much sumed up my fears... Just when GM was on a roll and had a chance to truly lead and truly change perceptions, it's the same &#036;h&#33; just a different day.

The same PREDICTABLE, SLOW, MEANINGLESS GM as always.

Sorry to be harsh, but this is a big let down... It's time for GM to change perceptions on all fronts... and the "Fuel saving nazis" are growing exponentially in numbers for whatever reason.... Be it some LAME excuse that oil is funding terrorism or some DUMB documentary by politicians and actors who think they should tell us how to run our lives or be it via fuel fillup induced poverty or just plain old Detroit hating.

[BuddyP]

I see under the "Cheers and Gears" heading above it says "Fresh idea's for a better GM". Is it possible that anybody from GM that has any significant say is reading any of this?

DOD is a good idea, however a small diesel would accomplish the same thing if not better. Heck, apply DOD to it. Don't see why that couldn't be done. I'd be all for buying a small deisel in an Av.... with a 6 speed mind you. The 4 speed in my currant Av is kinda sucky with the minute low end torque that the 5.3 has.

[Newbiewar]

To the admin and all memebers of C&G... I apologize for any bad language used in the following posting....

f@#k. WHY...IN...THE...f@#k... are they not building a small Duramax. We want that Diesel Avy bad. Hell, every time my dad asks the loacal dealers about the possibilty of a diesel Avalanche, they respond saying if they got a nickel everytime that question, they wouldn't be owning the dealership.

GM... what are you thinking? 

183426[/snapback]

the duramax production is maxed... it was supposed to be used in the suburbans and tahoes when it was originally designed... but they underestimated the demand and decided only vans & HD truck....

why they havent designed a smaller one or another plant... i donno...

[SimonDavid]

Here's an idea

If the next ion is an imported astra, why can't it just keep its deisel engine? Im not an engineer but would it be that difficult to adapt a Euro IV compatible deisel to the US?

[ToniCipriani]

The 1.9 CDTI needs to be here somehow.

Saturn Astra 1.9 would be a good starting point.

[nzr]

Dumb f@#king moves by GM, ONCE AGAIN. No small diesel!

Edited August 23, 2006 by nzr

[cavalier36]

here is what id do with powertrain..

Diesels.. there needs to be a diesel engine avalible in the malibu, the hummer H3, the colorado and the canyon period..

hybrids: id like to see a hybrid Cobalt.. GM needs something to take on that ugly toyota prius..

E85: this needs to be expanded as option for the following vehicles.. the new camaro, G6, equinox, colorado, canyon, hummer H3, malibu, aura, and the cobalt..

here is the engines id use for passenger cars and crossovers...

1.6L dohc I4, 2.0L t/c dohc I4, 2.2L dohc I4, 2.4L dohc I4,

2.8L dohc V6, 3.3L dohc V6, 3.3L dohc diesel V6, 3.5L ohv V6, 3.6L dohc V6,

3.9L ohv V6,

4.0L dohc V8, 4.6L dohc V8, 5.3L ohv V8, 6.2L ohv V8, 7.0L ohv V8,

and for light trucks/vans

2.9L dohc I4, 3.6L dohc I5, 4.2L dohc I6, 4.4L ohv diesel V6, 4.5L dohc V6,

4.8L ohv V8, 5.3L ohv V8, 6.2L ohv V8, 7.0L ohv V8, 6.6L ohv V8 diesel,

[91z4me]

Would everyone stop complaining about the D*mn diesels? They are coming but for some reason AutoNews didn't put them in their report. Maybe they don't know enough about them to be 100% or maybe they just don't think it will happen or maybe they haven't heard about them. But they are coming so stop complaining.

Actually I am quite dissapointed with this AutoNews stuff as it doesn't seem to be anything we don't already know. In fact there are many things we do know are coming that they don't have in their stuff. They aren't GM and they don't know all of it. Perhaps they are just careful about what they put out on their reports or maybe they just don't have all the bits put together but lets remember that this is just a report and not 100% everything, OK?

[pow]

A diesel clean enough to meet 50-state emissions requirements will probably end up costing more than a comparable hybrid system.

[Robert Hall]

The main reason I'd like to see more diesels is that it would be nice in the US to be able to buy something that gets more than 40 mpg that isn't a subcompact penalty box---something with a bit of luxury, fun to drive, and efficient--- a US market 3-series or CTS with a diesel would be great..(Car and Driver tested a 330d and got 40 mpg on the highway).

Edited August 23, 2006 by moltar

[BuddyP]

A diesel clean enough to meet 50-state emissions requirements will probably end up costing more than a comparable hybrid system.

184029[/snapback]

Is Europe that much different that the US or emissions? 80% of the car in Europe are diesels. I think there are other options for a car as far as milage goes but for the Colorado and light duty trucks it's a must. The Colorado's 5 cyl. isn't that great. A torquey 4 cyl. deisel would be awsome.

[BuddyP]

here is what id do with powertrain..

Diesels.. there needs to be a diesel engine avalible in the malibu, the hummer H3, the colorado and the canyon period..

hybrids: id like to see a hybrid Cobalt.. GM needs something to take on that ugly  toyota prius.. 

E85: this needs to be expanded as option for the following vehicles.. the new camaro, G6, equinox, colorado, canyon, hummer H3, malibu, aura, and the cobalt..

183970[/snapback]

Colorado, Canyon, H3 deffinatly could use a deisel, and all it'd have to be is a inline 4. Make it as quiet and sootless as the Duramax's and they'd sell like hotcakes.

I also agree, a hybrid Cobalt would be awsome, look how good they sell as it is!

I still can't understand why the G6 and Cobalt are not E85 capable??? The malibu is already though, depending on the motor option you get.

[rkmdogs]

GM powertrain plans: Variety - but no diesel yet

Richard Truett | | Automotive News / August 21, 2006 - 6:00 am

General Motors' powertrain division is rolling out a variety of fuel-saving, high-tech engines; hybrid powertrains; and six-speed automatic transmissions.

Because of high costs, GM does not plan to add diesels to passenger cars and light trucks before at least 2010. "

This guy is blowin' smoke!

I would like to remind all of you of the article that I posted from down under,

about the development of two new diesels being developed by Holden.

This writer may have a twisted agenda, or a bias against diesels!

Here it is again :

GM Plots Global Diesel Offensive & Holden Could Benefit

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

General Motors Is Plotting A Diesel Offensive On

The Hitherto Compression-Ignition Shy US Market

Gautam Sharma

19 May 2006

www.carpoint.com.au

GM is armed with a pair of high-tech new powerplants -- and it's not inconceivable that these units could eventually be offered in our own Holden Commodore.

"We are developing right now two highly modern diesel motors that won't just fulfil the Euro-5 emission standards, but the more stringent Bin-5 regulations in the USA," a senior GM source told German journal Automobilwoche.

The car-making giant is reportedly readying an oil-burning 2.9-litre V6 and a 4.5-litre V8 that will use cutting-edge new technology dubbed Homogeneous Charge Compression Ignition (HCCI), said to boost fuel economy by about 20 per cent and generate fewer polluting hydrocarbons.

No power and torque figures have been released, but outputs of 160kW/500Nm are not inconceivable for the turbo-diesel V6 (compared with 175kW/320Nm for the current Commodore's 3.6-litre petrol V6), while the 4.5-litre V8 could punch out 240kW/750Nm (versus 260kW/510Nm for the existing 6.0-litre petrol V8).

However, we must point out that these numbers are only our estimates for what the diesels will generate.

US sources suggest GM's diesel offensive will start in 2008, with the engines ultimately destined for a range of sport utility vehicles (SUVs), pick-ups and large sedans in all GM brands and all markets.

GM's new-found interest in diesel is largely driven by a new law (which took effect from January 1 this year) in the US that allows consumers who purchase some new diesel-powered cars, light trucks and SUVs to be eligible for up to $US3400 in tax credits based on the weight, fuel efficiency rating and emissions level of the vehicle.

A recent study by JD Power and Associates reported that diesel and hybrid vehicles are expected to garner 11 per cent of US vehicles sales by 2012 -- with the diesel market increasing from a 3 per cent market share in 2004 to 7.5 per cent.

According to RL Polk data, diesels have already seen 56 per cent market growth in the US over the past five years with the introduction of models such as the Jeep Liberty CRD, Mercedes E320 CDI, and TDI variants of the Volkswagen Touareg and Passat.

But what does it mean for us? Well, GM's local Holden subsidiary has expressed interest in adopting diesel technology for its upcoming VE Commodore, so it's not impossible that one or both of the new-age engines could be slotted under its snout in due course.

Holden boss Denny Mooney has already conceded that diesel technology is being trialled in the Commodore, although he admits that a production variant is "further down the track".

"We have a (diesel) prototype running around, but there are a lot of barriers to diesel right now," Mooney said recently. "Not every service station has diesel fuel. And there's the stigma associated with the smell. You know, if you get diesel fuel on you it's like a cologne, it stays on you.

"So you've got to overcome that stigma that a lot of consumers have on their mind -- that they're dirty, smelly -- which they aren't. Modern diesels are very clean, as most of us know, but the public doesn't necessarily see it that way."

It's widely believed a 162kW/500Nm 3.0-litre V6 built by Italy's VM Motori is the leading candidate for the VE Commodore, but the new US-sourced diesels may also figure in the equation.

Meanwhile, arch rival Ford is also evaluating diesel technology for its Territory SUV, which is currently handicapped by relatively high fuel consumption from its 4.0-litre petrol engine.

As previously reported by CarPoint, Ford Europe's Dagenham Diesel Centre in the UK recently unveiled a high-tech new 200kW/640Nm 3.6-litre turbo-diesel V8 to supplement the smaller 140kW/445Nm 2.7-litre turbo-diesel V6 that's already available here in the Land Rover Discovery 3 and Range Rover.

And either, or both, of these units could be candidates for the Territory.

Our analysis ['Who's Fueling Who?'] corroborates that buying a diesel only pays off in the long-term. In the case of a Volkswagen Golf 2.0 TDI Comfortline, you'll need to drive it for around 80,000km to recoup its price premium over its petrol counterpart (based on current fuel prices).

However, if and when fuel prices hit $2 per litre -- as is being tipped by analysts -- the payback time will be dramatically shortened.

[rkmdogs]

Oh yeah, and while I'm at it....

For all of you in love with the idea of an E85 fueled vehicle, I ask one question....

WHERE YA GONNA GET IT ????????

There are only 670+ stations in the entire USA that have the capability to store &

pump E85. Is there one by you, out of the almost 200,000 gas stations in this country?

And who is gonna pay the cost of the installation of this additional fuel variable?

The gas companies? Nah!

The estimate to add one additional fuel to all the stations in this country is

$37 Billion!

Yesah, that's with a "B"

The gas companies want your Uncle Sam to pick up that tab. Well, who is that?

That's you and me folks....... with our tax dollars!!!!

Ain't gonna happen if I get a vote.

[thegriffon]

Here's an idea

If the next ion is an imported astra, why can't it just keep its deisel engine?  Im not an engineer but would it be that difficult to adapt a Euro IV compatible deisel to the US?

183873[/snapback]

The short answer is yes, it would. Us regulations are far tougher than even planned future Eruoprean regulations, let alone EuroIV, and the technology to meet it is apparenntly too expensive for smaller cheaper vehicles. A relatively expensive HD pickup or a $60,000 Mercedes sedan are much more able to pass on the cost thn an Astra, Malibu, Colorado or even an H3. Perhaps when there is more spare cash they can expand capacity for the 6.6 L Duramax, and further down the line add Cadillac's future V8 diesel to the more expensive SUVs. In the meantime the focus will be on bringing diesel injection and induction technology to gasoline engines that don't have the same after-treatment problems. Will we one day soon see a 3.9 L OHV engine with direct injection? Who knows. If it beats a standard 3.6 L perhaps we will.

[toesuf94]

where am I on this one: I like diesels, think they are fun to drive and make great torque. Would I like one in my Tahoe or in a'Burban - yeah. Are owners with Duramax's getting better mileage than the gas powered trucks - nope. The fuel is $.56/gal more than ethanol blend here = so where is the benefit for the extra expense of the diesel powertrain. Sure, I could pull a house off the foundation if I wanted to, but the costs at this time outweigh the benefits. I like GM's direction right now with the Hybrids and the dual-mode drive systems - it is a good solution for now. Would I like to see the Diesels in the colorado, H2/H3, and some other light trucks and small cars - an HHR TDI would be a cool around town car with 50+ possible mpg. The problem I foresee is the clean air standards that are being imposed for next year. It is expensive to get the oil burners to pass that test - so it will rule it out on the cars that need it most that would deliver to the market that is asking for it - competition for the VW's and in an upcoming small truck market.

Let's keep in mind that GM is not printing this article - so the information about a lack of diesels may be false. Calm down and wait to see what happens in a year or so. With Holden poised to get one and GM Europe on the way - as well as GM's push for alternative fuels ( Biodiesel anyone? ) I cannot see GM ignoring this venue as the article claims they have.

[GMC]

Hybrid Diesel,Gas,Kerosene,Electric,Hydrogen,Water,Etc.

Just kidding... what ever is approved by the regulators, and me, the driver, of course! But ill stick to my classics, thank you!

[91z4me]

Oh yeah, and while I'm at it....

For all of you in love with the idea of an E85 fueled vehicle, I ask one question....

WHERE YA GONNA GET IT ????????

There are only 670+ stations in the entire USA that have the capability to store &

pump E85. Is there one by you, out of the almost 200,000 gas stations in this country?

And who is gonna pay the cost of the installation of this additional fuel variable?

The gas companies? Nah!

The estimate to add one additional fuel to all the stations in this country is

$37 Billion!

Yesah, that's with a "B"

The gas companies want your Uncle Sam to pick up that tab. Well, who is that?

That's you and me folks....... with our tax dollars!!!!

Ain't gonna happen if I get a vote.

184150[/snapback]

Walmart is going to start carrying E85 in all its stations. The rest can be converted for a very low cost to pump E85 since all that is needed is a new pump and likely new lines. $37 Billion over a few years and with multiple companies picking up the tab really isn't that bad. Lets remember Exxon pulled in $34 Billion in profits in 1 quarter about a year ago.

[Robert Hall]

Oh yeah, and while I'm at it....

For all of you in love with the idea of an E85 fueled vehicle, I ask one question....

WHERE YA GONNA GET IT ????????

184150[/snapback]

Good question..I did a bit of research, there are only 8 e85 stations in my state, and it costs $1.54 a gallon.

[toesuf94]

I can buy E85 10 minutes from here and another station is coming online this weekend in Howard, IA...selling gas at $.85 per gallon. It is coming nationwide before you know it. GM should give dealers a break on a pump and tank system that can be dropped at any dealership and let them sell it. A stand along credit card operated system only needs space, power and a phone line. (somebody suggested this months ago on a different thread) I loved the idea and pitched it to the Live Green team at GM. Have not heard if it went anywhere. Think of the traffic on the dealerships and customers driving in to fill up and maybe the wife decides to get a new Trailblazer or HHR while you fill the truck. Dealers are looking for ways to expand traffic...here you go!

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I see under the "Cheers and Gears" heading above it says "Fresh idea's for a better GM". Is it possible that anybody from GM that has any significant say is reading any of this?

DOD is a good idea, however a small diesel would accomplish the same thing if not better. Heck, apply DOD to it. Don't see why that couldn't be done. I'd be all for buying a small deisel in an Av.... with a 6 speed mind you. The 4 speed in my currant Av is kinda sucky with the minute low end torque that the 5.3 has.

183798[/snapback]

I agree 110%!!!!

A small diesel in the 900 platform would be a GURANTEED success!!!! Both on the sales front and PR front.

But, GM won't do that... It just makes too much sense apparently. Instead, they'll let Ford or more importantly Toyota do it (Since the media and public will IGNORE Fords efforts OR fault them for something else) and then they'll try to cash in on it 4 years later, in hindsight and lost battles.

The hybrid... Sure, I can see why they didn't jump on that train, because it was and STILL IS a dumb idea unless your media and elitest in your market make it a BAD stigma not to produce one (Which is what happened) but a smaller diesel that wouldn't take NEARLY the resources to engineer nor the dollars to market/purchase is another story entirely.

My parents would LOVE to have a new diesel light duty Silverado as I'm sure MOST people who MUST have and use a truck would.

[Derek77]

GM to Introduce New Light-Duty Diesel for North America

High-efficiency V-8 scheduled for pickup trucks under 8,600 pounds Gross Vehicle Weight

MILFORD, Mich. - General Motors Corp. will introduce a new V-8 turbo-diesel that improves engine fuel efficiency by 25 percent for North American light duty trucks after 2009.

The premium V-8 diesel is expected to deliver class-leading torque, power and refinement while maintaining a significant fuel efficiency advantage over comparable output gasoline engines.

The new dual-overhead cam, four-valve V-8 diesel engine will fit within the same space as a small-block V-8 gasoline engine. This compact size is made possible by using an integrated air system and narrow block.

"This new GM light duty diesel is expected to become a favorite among customers who require excellent towing ability and fuel efficiency," said Tom Stephens, group vice president, GM Powertrain. "It will meet the stringent 2010 emissions standards, and it will be compliant in all 50 states, making it one of the cleanest diesel vehicles ever produced."

Environmental benefits of the new engine include a 13-percent reduction in CO2 versus gasoline engines, and at least a 90-percent reduction in particulates and NOx compared to diesel vehicles today. This will be GM's first engine to use a NOx after-treatment system with a diesel particulate filter to help achieve the Tier 2 Bin 5 and LEV 2 emissions standards.

Technical highlights of the engine include aluminum cylinder heads with integrated manifolding, compacted graphite iron (CGI) block for a strong engine base and fracture-split main bearing caps and connecting rods for a precise fit. A high-pressure, common-rail fuel system is used, which has the ability to inject fuel five times per combustion event to control noise and emissions.

GM (Opel, Saab, Vauxhall, GMDAT, Isuzu and Suzuki) currently offers 17 diesel engine variants in 45 vehicle lines around the world. GM sells more than one million diesel engines annually, with products that offer a range of choices from the 1.3L four-cylinder diesel engine sold in the Opel Agila and Corsa, up to the 6.6L V-8 Duramax diesel sold in full-size vans, heavy duty pickups and medium duty trucks in the U.S.

GM introduced the Duramax diesel 6.6L V-8 in the U.S. in the 2001 model year and since then, customer enthusiasm for this heavy duty diesel has been outstanding.

[loki]

GM to Introduce New Light-Duty Diesel for North America

High-efficiency V-8 scheduled for pickup trucks under 8,600 pounds Gross Vehicle Weight

184484[/snapback]

saweet!

[red115]

Being that diesel hasnt come down in price alongside gas, I dont get the high demand,(the previous threads) unless you want a stump pulling truck. And GM truck sales are down, and I dont think its because of the absence of a diesel option. I am pumped about the new 6 speed auto, which is being assembled in my town of Toledo. As with the high torque Avalanche absence complaint earlier in this thread, buy one with the 8.0L Besides I dont believe anything these biased reporters write, if theyre not talking about toyota then theyre not happy. And I cant think of one toyota I would buy.

no rice for me thanks

[rkmdogs]

Being that diesel hasnt come down in price alongside gas, I dont get the high demand,(the previous threads) unless you want a stump pulling truck.

184635[/snapback]

It is basic engineering red.

Most diesels run at about a 40% effiency.

The best gasoline, internal combustion engines run at about 30% efficiency.

So the fuel price per gallon may be the same, but for a given amount of work,

you are consuming 10% less fuel! That's just better economics!

[loki]

It is basic engineering red.

Most diesels run at about a 40% effiency.

The best gasoline, internal combustion engines run at about 30% efficiency.

So the fuel price per gallon may be the same, but for a given amount of work,

you are consuming 10% less fuel! That's just better economics!

184719[/snapback]

i thought diesels were 30%, turboed 33%...

the best they've done is 40% w/ methanol (turboed) and a compresion ratio of 19.5 : 1 i'll try to find a link later.

not sure what they estimate gas at... maybe ~25%?

[91z4me]

i thought diesels were 30%, turboed 33%...

the best they've done is 40% w/ methanol (turboed) and a compresion ratio of 19.5 : 1  i'll try to find a link later.

not sure what they estimate gas at...  maybe ~25%?

184829[/snapback]

I though gas engines were around 15%

[loki]

maybe not extremely scientific.. but here is a "break down of the expelled energy" from a gas engine... estimated at ~25%

PDF of "plasmatron" hoping to improve efficiency by 20%...

[MyerShift]

Well, reports indicate a new V8 diesel from GM that will fit into the engine bays with the same dimensions that its small block will fit into, and it is reportedly very advanced... DOHC, 4 valves/cylinder, benchmarked against the best diesels of Audi, Mercedes-Benz, and BMW, and aimed to have sound/NVH qualities like those of a good gasoline engine.

Clicky Click!