The Future of Pontiac

[Flybrian]

Pontiac: Relying on G forces

Automotive News / August 21, 2006 - 6:00 am

G5: Pontiac adds the G5 coupe, an entry-level model built on GM's small-car Delta architecture at the Lordstown, Ohio, plant. The G5 will be priced just under $15,000; sales begin this year. The vehicle is a sibling of the Chevrolet Cobalt coupe. A sedan will not be offered.

G6: The G6 is scheduled to be re-engineered and restyled for the 2010 model year on GM's front-wheel-drive Epsilon 2 architecture. Some GM executives want to make all of Pontiac's cars rear-wheel drive. But that strategy has not progressed beyond the talking stages.

Grand Prix: GM will discontinue the Grand Prix after the 2008 model year.

Mid-sized sedan: GM has targeted the 2010 model year for the introduction of a sporty new sedan. GM is considering a V-8-powered, mid-sized rwd sedan based on its rwd global vehicle architecture. GM insiders say the vehicle would be "one notch up" from the Grand Prix in terms of performance, content and price. One possible name is G8.

Solstice: A coupe is scheduled to be added for the 2008 model year. Higher-horsepower engines are planned for the future, but a V-6 is not. The Solstice likely will be re-engineered for the 2011 model year.

GTO: The 2006 model year was the last for the GTO.

Company insiders say the rwd architecture on which the Chevrolet Camaro will be based could provide a similar product for Pontiac. But Pontiac will not revive the Firebird name and likely not GTO. There is no time frame when such a car for Pontiac would be introduced.

Torrent: The freshening planned for the 2008 model year has been canceled. If Pontiac gets an all-car, all-rwd lineup in the next five years, the Torrent likely would become a GMC in the 2008 model year.

Montana SV6: The minivan will be dropped at the end of the 2006 model year.

[trinacriabob]

Pretty likely after all the talk over the months and years at C&G and elsewhere.

Two comments:

1.

Looks like GP may then not participate in an enhancement like the LaX circa 2008 if it is to be canned; the sad end of a legacy

2.

Please, please, no names like G8...I always like the named Bonneville...they need a name-name for the flagship

[Variance]

Mid-sized sedan: GM has targeted the 2010 model year for the introduction of a sporty new sedan. GM is considering a V-8-powered, mid-sized rwd sedan based on its rwd global vehicle architecture. GM insiders say the vehicle would be "one notch up" from the Grand Prix in terms of performance, content and price. One possible name is G8.

183249[/snapback]

I hope, I hope, I hope...

[Northstar]

So if Pontiac is getting a muscle car, it's not going to be a GTO or Firebird?

Also, I sort of see why they wouldn't name something on Zeta Grand Prix or Bonneville now. Maybe Bonneville would work, but I think people think of something much bigger than a Zeta SWB sedan would be, and the current Grand Prix would be so much worse of a vehicle that I think some people would dismiss it right away because of the name.

[ocnblu]

The Solstice coupe should have been here along with the roadster, but I guess they wanted to make sure Kappa would sell, so...

G6 can be an Americanized Torana, duh.

Of course they need a RWD mid-large coupe and sedan. Like now.

No mention of Vibe. A replacement for it on Delta would be useful. I think they need at least one utility vehicle, but it needs to have Pontiac character, through and through. None of this Yota crap under the skin. That means Ecotec power with plenty of torque.

[ToniCipriani]

I rather they keep the G6, and the Torana TT36 to be under it. Given it's a hatchback (according to the article that was talking about a possible production TT36), I think it's good enough to replace the G5 and the Vibe together.

Given that the G6 is getting the AWD promised with EPII, it should set the two aside very well It's selling as well, so why kill it? Changing it to be a rebadged TT36 would be too radical IMO.

[Dsuupr]

Seems like a rather thin well dated line up over the next few years. Does this bring Pontiac down to 3 vehicles in 2009?

G5

G6

Solstice

Something doesn't fit.

[91z4me]

Seems like a rather thin well dated line up over the next few years.  Does this bring Pontiac down to 3 vehicles in 2009?

G5

G6

Solstice

Something doesn't fit.

183323[/snapback]

According to at least 1 person a GTO launch is being planned for the same time as the Camaro launch. Also even if the timeframe is off I bet any amount of money that the GTO name is not dead.

[BlkHhr104]

Dont count the GP out till you see the new Motor Trend ;-)

[VenSeattle]

Torrent: The freshening planned for the 2008 model year has been canceled. If Pontiac gets an all-car, all-rwd lineup in the next five years, the Torrent likely would become a GMC in the 2008 model year.

183249[/snapback]

No. The Torrent needs to go upscale, be priced right above the Saturn VUE, and renamed to Buick Rendezvous.

[wildcat]

That would make too much sense and provide too much continuity and not allow Buick's sales to drop further, in the interim before Enclave comes out.

[91z4me]

Dont count the GP out till you see the new Motor Trend ;-)

183399[/snapback]

Sketch or spy pics? I'm intrigued!

[BlkHhr104]

A GM chop of the Zeta sedan with plans to build it.

srry for horrible quality.

Edited August 22, 2006 by BlkHhr104

[Guest YellowJacket894]

...Uh, where did you get that issue of MT?

I hope that if a GP is a Commodore-based sedan, it's not expensive and low-volume. That wouldn't make much sense, really. (A thought: that situation will never happen. Since Zeta will/can be built in Oshawa...well, I think you know where I'm going.)

[wildcat]

Motor Trend puts a chop of a possible Pontiac Grand Prix on its cover? Is that a r-e-a-l MT cover, or a chop itself?

[BlkHhr104]

It's real, I swear, I have no clue how to chop but I read it, Holden wants to build us a GP, and according to GM they engineered this car to be left-hand drive and the tank is ahead of the axle, im not sure if it's a MT car chop though.

Edited August 22, 2006 by BlkHhr104

[91z4me]

It's real, I swear, I have no clue how to chop but I read it, Holden wants to build us a GP, and according to GM they engineered this car to be left-hand drive and the tank is ahead of the axle, im not sure if it's a MT car chop though.

183522[/snapback]

All the stuff about VE being able to be sold in the US is 100% true, Mooney and other GM staff have said as much. I do expect the Commedore to be imported, if nothing else then to take up the GTO volume levels.

[buyacargetacheck]

All the stuff about VE being able to be sold in the US is 100% true, Mooney and other GM staff have said as much.  I do expect the Commedore to be imported, if nothing else then to take up the GTO volume levels.

183938[/snapback]

If GM tacks on Pontiac front and rear clips to the "new" Australian designs, the next GTO and Grand Prix will flop like the old GTO (great car wrapped in boring styling). The Australians sure do like their styling bland!

A heapin helping of American please. Hold the Eurosauce!

[Chicagoland]

The "Holden GP" is the new "Loch Ness Monster car", just like the "all new 2005 Camaro" or the "V16 Caddy"

[thegriffon]

Some clarification is needed. Holden would like to export something to the US, but they acknowledge that it can only be something low-volume like the GTO. Thus a replacement for the Grand Prix is not feasible.

[91z4me]

Some clarification is needed. Holden would like to export something to the US, but they acknowledge that it can only be something low-volume like the GTO. Thus a replacement for the Grand Prix is not feasible.

185047[/snapback]

I am thinking they will do a low volume Commedore sedan and possibly, if they have the extra volume, later a WM based Buick Statesman.

[regfootball]

they should fire those at GM for not having this car here NOW.

2010 is too late. I am appalled they said the folks in Detroit didn't even drive this car till a few weeks ago.

that alone gives a clue of how disjointed a 'world' company is.

Imagine the big time payoff if GM had the new grand Prix here now as well as the new Statesman large Buick.

the market wants it now, not 2-3 years from now. Don't give me the BS about tooling up the factories. Export some of these now and get the buzz going. federalization for the US market should have been in place a year or more ago.

Edited August 28, 2006 by regfootball

[CreativeVision]

they should fire those at GM for not having this car here NOW.

2010 is too late.  I am appalled they said the folks in Detroit didn't even drive this car till a few weeks ago.

that alone gives a clue of how disjointed a 'world' company is.

Imagine the big time payoff if GM had the new grand Prix here now as well as the new Statesman large Buick.

the market wants it now, not 2-3 years from now.  Don't give me the BS about tooling up the factories.  Export some of these now and get the buzz going.  federalization for the US market should have been in place a year or more ago.

185868[/snapback]

I agree 100%. This is ridiculous for Pontiac to go 2 years without a mid/full size car. Granted they are paired up with Buick and GMC now, but what if I want a sporty mid size car and don't think a Buick would fit the bill? Sure there's still Saturn Aura and Chevy Malibu/Impala, but Pontiac is going to suffer without something in place by the time the GP is axed.

[Flybrian]

I would never spend money on a Chevrolet or Saturn. I'm sure I'm not alone. That itself is enough reason to get it in gear.

[Mr.Krinkle]

I would never spend money on a Chevrolet or Saturn. I'm sure I'm not alone. That itself is enough reason to get it in gear.

192757[/snapback]

i wonder if thats the kind of excuse all those old guys that started buying up all the scions used.

the oh, id never buy a toyota...oooh scion looks nice.

Edited September 13, 2006 by Mr.Krinkle

[Dragon]

bye bye Torrent. Its going GMC for the next gen

[cire]

If GM is continuing with its plan to combine Pontiac, Buick, and GMC into one dealer network, then Pontiac needs a focused vision for the brand. Pontiac should continue as GM's sport division, offering a selection of sporty coupes, convertibles, and sedans. Crossovers and SUVs should not be included in this division. All products for this brand should be rear wheel drive. Meaningless alpha/numeric model designations (G5, G6, and G8) should be dropped and actual model names should be utilized.

Here are some ideas for a future Pontiac lineup:

* LeMans: Compact rear wheel drive sedan built on the Kappa platform.

* Ventura: Midsize rear wheel drive sedan built on the Alpha platform.

* Bonneville: Large rear wheel drive sedan built on the Zeta platform.

* Solstice: Continues in the lineup just as it is; rear wheel drive affordable roadster.

* Fiero: Compact rear wheel drive coupe built on Kappa platform.

* Grand Prix: Midsize rear wheel drive coupe/convertible built on Alpha platform.

* Firebird: Rear wheel drive sports coupe/convertible built on Zeta platform.

Pontiac has a proud history and should continue in the GM lineup as a pure sportscar brand.

Edited June 29, 2007 by cire

[balthazar]

If the sheetmetal is going to be shared on the same platforms, I do not see different names for the same 'model' (EX: Ventura >< Grand Prix)

[hyperv6]

Well here is my take for what it's worth.

Solstice on Kappa or Alpha drivitive

A trendy small RWD Mini like coupe similar in design to the Nomad with true Pontiac looks. Base it on the Alpha

G5/6 RWD replacment on the new Alpha Coupe, Hatch and Sedan

G8 RWD on the Zeta in a sedan

A RWD coupe on the Zeta in hard top and convertible

A trendy small RWD Mini like coupe similar in design to the Nomad with true Pontiac looks. Base it on the Alpha

All models will be sporty but still offer upgraded performance models like BMW. No base model stripper fleet cars to be offered.

All number names will be dropped but GM needs to make a major impact by with new real names and stop living in the past. We may have fond memories of a old Le Mans or a Bonneville but many non Pontiac Fans still have nightmares and very clear memories of Korean built Le Mans and G body 1984 Bonnevilles, not everyone remembers a 1965 GTO. We need to understand not everyone loves what Pontiac has done in the last 30 years and we need to let them know things have changed with the new models as the old name make many uninformed buyers (most are) think things are still the same.

Also the reality is we will not have as many models to offer as in the past. The large car will be covered with Buick as will Crossovers and Luxury models. GMC will also cover the Crossovers and small SUV market. It is important to think of Pontiac as only 1/3 or a regular division and enjoy the chance to concentrait on what they do best "Performance". They no longer have to be all things to every one and not longer have to be a fancy Chevy.

Pontiac can be like BMW and concentrait on the same kind of line up the lower end BMW offers but at a Price point more can afford.

Edited June 26, 2007 by hyperv6

[Camino LS6]

Add a few sportwagons to the mix and we mostly agree.

We part company on the naming strategy (somewhat).

Otherwise,

[hyperv6]

Add a few sportwagons to the mix and we mostly agree.

We part company on the naming strategy (somewhat).

Otherwise,

Funny I thought about some sport wagons or better yet call em Shooting brakes and offer them in 3 doors for a little Euro flair.

Don't get me wrong on the names I love alot of the old names and hold no grudges. But I have to think about the non buying Pontiac crowd and what their preception of the old names is. There memories are not the same as ours and they out number us too boot.

If Pontiac is to convince the non buying Pontiac buyers to comeback for a try they need to break clean and be willing to show they are serious about being a new company with new products that do not hold to the past 30 years. If your going bet you bet with your brain and not your heart if you want to win.

The reason I am convinced of this is from what I have read on the non GM sites. About half the people are willing to give Pontiac a fair shake but many still don't believe the turn around it real as in we had turn arounds in the 80's and 90's that were never complete. In the last 30 years Pontiac has has some good cars a few great cars and too many that we don't need to remember. The problem is many still do remember them and hold them against Pontiac.

The turn around with Bunkie and Delorean started with sportier models and new names. If it worked in the late 50's and 60's why can't it work again? Back then Pontiac was not a bad car just a car that people no longer identified with as they used too. Bunkie started by taking risks and they paid off. I think history can repeat itself.

It is time to stop taking the easy way out and live off old memories as some of those memories for the non Pontiac enthusiast were not always pleasant.

It is just my take and we will just have to differ on this. By the way after Pontiac get turned around I would not be against an old name or two coming back but only after they turn the corner and their future is no longer up in the air. We need to save the company before we get nostalgic.

An no G number cars what so ever.

[Camino LS6]

Make this the halo car and the names won't matter.

http://www.cheersandgears.com/forums/index...mp;#entry294424

[hyperv6]

Make this the halo car and the names won't matter.

http://www.cheersandgears.com/forums/index...mp;#entry294424

Now that is what I am talking about.

Offer this as the up sell and offer a good perdormance version as the standard. No V6 or base model.

[gm4life]

That would make a great G8 GXP!

[hyperv6]

That would make a great G8 GXP!

More than likley some version of this will be your G8 GXP.

[balthazar]

>>"But I have to think about the non buying Pontiac crowd and what their preception of the old names is. There memories are not the same as ours and they out number us too boot. "<<

The non-buyers of every given make outnumber the enthusiasts.

Pontiac does not have to convince those who have bad memories of a few long-past models, only those who have no bad associations, which far outnumber those with bad associations. Here they are:

>>"About half the people are willing to give Pontiac a fair shake..."<<

Aiming for those vehemently against Pontiac is a complete waste of time & money, yet the perception that it's neccesary somehow persists.

>>"The turn around with Bunkie and Delorean started with sportier models and new names. If it worked in the late 50's and 60's why can't it work again?"<<

Because the corporate structure is so completely different. There is no one at 'Pontiac' that has the same power as the guy who made sure Bunkie's coffee pot was brewing when he walked in in the AM.

[AxelTheRed]

The first thing Pontiac really needs to worry about is product...but that's nearly overshadowed by its need to establish itself as a global brand.

[hyperv6]

The first thing Pontiac really needs to worry about is product...but that's nearly overshadowed by its need to establish itself as a global brand.

Yes Pontiac needs to worry about product.

As for Global brands they better restablish themselves as a American brand first and worry about the world later.

To be honest Holden and some of Opel are going to be Pontiac's extention to the global market with the new way GM is doing things. The lines between divisions will become closer and fade away as time passes. .

The bottom line is if GM can not increase sales here why would someone buy one anywhere else?

[hyperv6]

>>"But I have to think about the non buying Pontiac crowd and what their preception of the old names is. There memories are not the same as ours and they out number us too boot. "<<

The non-buyers of every given make outnumber the enthusiasts.

Pontiac does not have to convince those who have bad memories of a few long-past models, only those who have no bad associations, which far outnumber those with bad associations. Here they are:

>>"About half the people are willing to give Pontiac a fair shake..."<<

Aiming for those vehemently against Pontiac is a complete waste of time & money, yet the perception that it's neccesary somehow persists.

>>"The turn around with Bunkie and Delorean started with sportier models and new names. If it worked in the late 50's and 60's why can't it work again?"<<

Because the corporate structure is so completely different. There is no one at 'Pontiac' that has the same power as the guy who made sure Bunkie's coffee pot was brewing when he walked in in the AM.

As for bad memories there are a lot more than you may recall. Not everyone is willing to forgive the shortcomings in the 70's, 80's and 90's. Those lost sales are not going to be easy to bring back as they were to lose. There is so much compitition now vs the past.

As for a few long past models there are quite a few not too long or past. Hmmm Aztec, Phoenix, 70's Ventura, 74 GTO, Montana, Sunfire, J2000, Early W bodies, G body Lemans/Bonnevilles, 87 2+2, Korean Lemans, Turbo Grand Ams, Turbo TA, 4 Cylinder Firebirds, etc. While most were not bad cars most did not inspire quality and increases in sales or popularity of Pontiac. There was little growth and few return buyers as there were just better cars available else where.

Except for the V8 F bodies, later Bonnevilles, Later Grand Prixs, and the V6 Grand Ams Pontiac has not really had many cars that captured the public. They did get a glimmer out of the Fiero but even that went down in flames. Literally in the press.

Some people you can not change their minds and they will never buy a GM car let alone a Pontiac but many can captures and if you don't believe that Pontiac had better shut down now.

The best example of a turn around of late is Hyundia. They went from near Yugo like cars to a high demand growing company. They did it with great styling, better performance, Great prices, and a good warranty. If trhey can turn it around Pontiac can too.

I know GM operates differently today but there are people who can get things done. The first on the list Is Lutz. The problem is with the many problems GM is working out they have bigger fish to fry than Pontiac right now. They will get to them and things will improve but GM needs to address Chevy and other higher volume and profitable lines.

If Given the funding and time Lutz and the other will turn Pontiac just as they have Saturn. Who would have predicted Saturn ever having a second chance at life and a better chance to grow?

I am as big of a Pontac fan as you will ever see. I have two Pontiacs and one GMC as I sit here now.

I have owned driven or been around almost every kind of Pontiac built since 1960. I also know some have taken on ledgend status but many have been forgotten and all the better they were.

We have almost lost Pontiac before and if not for just a little better sales in the 80-90 they could have easily been Oldsmobile. It is time for the company to be reinvented and stepped away from Chevy as they one were.

[balthazar]

"As for bad memories there are a lot more than you may recall. "

This depends enormously on your perception and interpretation.

I lived thru it all as a fan, I remember it pretty well.

"I have owned driven or been around almost every kind of Pontiac built since 1960. "

Ditto.

"I am as big of a Pontac fan as you will ever see. I have two Pontiacs..."

Ditto; I have 2 Pontiacs now (3 if you count the one I'm parting out... it's very apart) and have owned 7 to date. Wife has owned 2 more. Can't count how many more among family & friends.

[Camino LS6]

Product first - names later.

[gm4life]

More than likley some version of this will be your G8 GXP.

Which would be okay with me. The Charger SRT-8 just got.

[cire]

If the sheetmetal is going to be shared on the same platforms, I do not see different names for the same 'model' (EX: Ventura >< Grand Prix)

My intention was to give Pontiac separate sedan (LeMans, Ventura, Bonneville) and coupe (Fiero, Grand Prix, and Firebird) lineups. The sedan and coupe lineups would not share sheet metal although the lineups would share platforms. I realize this would send GM accountants straight to the insane asylum. It would probably be more cost effective to have them share some sheet metal and model names to save money and marketing costs (Although this is kind of boring from an enthusiast's viewpoint).

I also intended for GMC to become the brand for sporty wagons, crossovers, SUV's, and trucks. This would better justify GMC in the Pontiac-GMC-Buick dealer combo. Pontiac would be the sporty, performance car division. GMC would be the sporty, performance wagon/crossover/SUV/truck division. Buick would be the near luxury division.