Buick LaCrosse to be Cancelled?

[thegriffon]

For the segment however the sales are quite impressive, partly due to discount pricing. How muich is GM prepared to sacrifice for higher margins? LaCrosse can piggyback off volume produced in China, and there will be a high level of commonality with the next Aura, G6 and eventually Malibu. It's the upper-level Pontiac that faces an uncertain future, with no international sales and a "cheaper" sibling that is just as big, and often more expensive.

[BuickBoy]

http://64.65.63.61/forums/showthread.php?t=467420

182179[/snapback]

As a recent LaX buyer, I'll go on record as saying this is the most underestimated cars on the market. My budget (I have a kid in college - you can relate) was low 20s and at that price point the LaX excells (IMHO). I wanted space, relaibilty, decent mileage and comfort. My LaX CX meets all of those better than any other car. The quality is second to Lexus and the 3800 engine has been around forever. It is quite, well put together and materials are fine for the 20k price. My daughter has an Altima and while it is a fine car my Lax is much more refined. Accord and Camry are fine cars but with a GM discount and rebates the Lax price can't be beat.

I think Buick has two problems. First, they have done little to promote the bentefits and features of the LaX. Second there is too much price overlap between the Lucerne and the LaCrosse. I struggled with this quite a bit but until college is paid for, I'm on a budget. Buick either needs to raise the price on the Lucerne or value price the LaCrosse even more. If I remember, the price difference is about 3k. And a loaded LaX gets into Lucerne territory fast.

I don't think Buick can survive on just one sedan and a future crossover.

As far as an old persons car - I'm 56 so whatever! If possilbe, I'd be driving a Corvette in a New Tor4k minute so I guess the 'Vette is an old man's car too.

Cheers

[thegriffon]

Like this?

love my GP but it's time has come to an end as a FWD. It is a no brainer to know Pontiac will get a RWD sedan if it is to survive. Just the question is when and what they will call it. I hope they will drop this G number system but I understand thier trying to market to folks who would have never bought Pontiac before.

Anyone also note they had two Holden UTE's at the Woodward Cruise this weekend. One was RHD.

182402[/snapback]

Holden acknowledges that volume would be too restricted to work as a GP replacement. If it comes it will be as a very low-volume halo model. If one is produced the G8 would have to be a unique North American model (because of changes to the architecture since the VE). The same goes for the so-called Statesman, especially since the Chinese did not take to the re-badged Holden.

[regfootball]

With todays gas prices, it makes sense that Buick will also won't a smaller, Malibu, sized vehicle.  Especially with the Hybrid option. 

Babyboomers are into "fixing" the environment and they are getting old.  What better vehicle than a Buick that is a Hybird.

182361[/snapback]

one half hearted feel good effort for them to fix the mess they created for the last 30 years. And ride off into the sunset, leaving the next generations in financial and cultural ruin.

[Ghost Dog]

Oshawa's capacity is being slashed.

Oshawa 2 will close. -250k Vehicles

Oshawa 1 will lose a shift - 75 to 100K

Oshawa will be able to build 250k a year. Even with Tru Flex don't go counting your models before they've hatched.

(and thats with tru-flex productivity unknown. It Could be more, likely it's less)

[trinacriabob]

II kept speculation, unsubstantiated rumors and sensitive items out of that post. However, I'll say on here that the Lacrosse name most likely won't continue when or if a replacement is made. I can easily take a wild guess at one of the reasons, but still the Lacrosse seems to have been a transitional car for Buick, and was scheduled for a comparatively short life anyway.

Lacrosse Super is unaffected. The investment into making the Super was very small... the setup is already in the Impala SS, Monte Carlo SS, and Grand Prix GXP... and can easily be a 1 or 2 year car (remember the supercharged SS?).

182426[/snapback]

OK, so you essentially imply that the LaCrosse will stay around for 2008 and possibly 2009. LaCrosse Super wouldn't be built without a base LaCrosse or without the Allure. And if the name goes away, or becomes all-Allure or the Allure goes onto a new platform, then BFD.

Please clarify the LaCrosse existence for 2008 and 2009.

[haypops]

Oshawa's capacity is being slashed.

Oshawa 2 will close. -250k Vehicles

Oshawa 1 will lose a shift - 75 to 100K

Oshawa will be able to build 250k a year. Even with Tru Flex don't go counting your models before they've hatched.

(and thats with tru-flex productivity unknown. It Could be more, likely it's less)

182444[/snapback]

Has there been an annoucement regarding Spring Hil, Tenn yet?

[Northstar]

The NG LaCrosse is still on, it's just not being built at Oshawa. It's a global car (same as the NG China LaCrosse) so there'd be no reason to cancel the US version.

[Sixty8panther]

NO...WIRE...HANGERS!!!!!  

182356[/snapback]

That movie is scarrier than Jaws or Nightmare on Elm St.

[Guest YellowJacket894]

So...the LaCrosse setting on the W-Bones platform is gone and moving to Epsilion in '08?

I'm confused.

[Northstar]

I think the next LaCrosse is a 2010 model year with sales starting in early 2009. I don't know where it's being built, but when the W- ends production there will probably be about 6 months before for the new one appears, which gives dealers time to sell old units.

Also, Oshawa will have a capacity of 500+k units when it's re-done and made into one giant plant.

[Guest YellowJacket894]

I think the next LaCrosse is a 2010 model year with sales starting in early 2009. I don't know where it's being built, but when the W- ends production there will probably be about 6 months before for the new one appears, which gives dealers time to sell old units.

Also, Oshawa will have a capacity of 500+k units when it's re-done and made into one giant plant.

Thanks for clearing that up, Northie. Makes more sense.

So, also so I can get this straight, the refresh is like the Chinese LaCrosse, correct?

I could see the front we were shown on the front of that...

[Flybrian]

Please let it not be. The Chinese LaCrosse is a mishmash of horrible styling cues.

[trinacriabob]

The Chinese LaCrosse is a mishmash of horrible styling cues.

182523[/snapback]

AGREED: MISHMASH. Except for a few nice touches here and there, Flybry speaks the truth.

[Guest YellowJacket894]

Well, at least the interior is a few notches above the NA market LaCrosse/Allure.

[ocnblu]

It's been proven it doesn't cause blindness. Why would they cancel it?

[Northstar]

No, the NG LaCrosse is a global car, and will also be sold in China, but the current Chinese LaCrosse is not the same as what the NG one is. That will be replaced as well by the same NG LaCrosse we get (or at least very close to the same).

[Ghost Dog]

I think the next LaCrosse is a 2010 model year with sales starting in early 2009. I don't know where it's being built, but when the W- ends production there will probably be about 6 months before for the new one appears, which gives dealers time to sell old units.

Also, Oshawa will have a capacity of 500+k units when it's re-done and made into one giant plant.

182516[/snapback]

If GM can Build 500k of Vehicles, with the number of employees that it currently takes to build 250k then TRU-Flex is an even greater developement then thought.

Have they recinded the announced job cuts?

[guionM]

I think the next LaCrosse is a 2010 model year with sales starting in early 2009. I don't know where it's being built, but when the W- ends production there will probably be about 6 months before for the new one appears, which gives dealers time to sell old units.

Also, Oshawa will have a capacity of 500+k units when it's re-done and made into one giant plant.

182516[/snapback]

I get that the "W" production isn't ending all at once. I get the Grand Prix, Impala, and maybe the Monte Carlo are continuing for a time in Osh #1. Osh# 2 will will be revamped and will begin production on whatever's going to be made there.

Oshawa is already one giant plant in 2 sections, and the 500,000 figure with 1000 fewer workers are the numbers I'm getting.

I think Lacrosse will be replaced before 2010, but I'm not convinced that the name will continue beyond the current model.

We should know more tomorrow. I'm guessing the press event regarding Camaro is really a press event regarding the Oshawa plant and the vehicles that's going to be made there & the timeframe.

[97regalGS]

I get that the "W" production isn't ending all at once. I get the Grand Prix, Impala, and maybe the Monte Carlo are continuing for a time in Osh #1. Osh# 2 will will be revamped and will begin production on whatever's going to be made there.

Oshawa is already one giant plant in 2 sections, and the 500,000 figure with 1000 fewer workers are the numbers I'm getting.

I think Lacrosse will be replaced before 2010, but I'm not convinced that the name will continue beyond the current model.

We should know more tomorrow. I'm guessing the press event regarding Camaro is really a press event regarding the Oshawa plant and the vehicles that's going to be made there & the timeframe.

182564[/snapback]

you want my advice. start all of your post with "IN MY OPINION" because you don't speak fact. most of your comments are pure speculation, although probably based on some real information.

your earlier posts go something like 'apparent fact', 'name most likely won't be LaCrosse...', 'when or IF a replacement', 'I can take a wild guess' , 'Buick IS getting a convertible, but "we don't know when, what platform or a name".

your comments are filled with these things.

there are very few people on this board who really know what is going on. there are others who have tidbits of partial information. there are a whole bunch of people who THINK they know what is going on, likley because they've been informed some things by the small group of people who DO know thru previous posts or PM. the big problem is the TIDBITTERS and the THINK THEY KNOWers post like they are one of the select few who actually have a clue and that just confuses the masses and gets them all worked up.

[Croc]

there are very few people on this board who really know what is going on.  there are others who have tidbits of partial information.  there are a whole bunch of people who THINK they know what is going on, likley because they've been informed some things by the small group of people who DO know thru previous posts or PM.  the big problem is the TIDBITTERS and the THINK THEY KNOWers post like they are one of the select few who actually have a clue and that just confuses the masses and gets them all worked up.

182581[/snapback]

Sweet mother of God, we have a voice of reason!

[Camino LS6]

I simply can't even pretend to care about this car, it is entirely invisible to me unlike the concept of the same name.

[Ghost Dog]

If GM can Build 500k of Vehicles, with the number of employees that it currently takes to build 250k then TRU-Flex is an even greater developement then thought.

Have they recinded the announced job cuts?

182550[/snapback]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...PStory/Business

GREG KEENAN

AUTO INDUSTRY REPORTER

The Camaro muscle car will roar out of Canada again, General Motors Corp. is set to announce on Monday.

The world's largest auto maker has chosen an assembly plant in Oshawa, Ont., as the site for the rebirth of one of the classic cars of the 1960s and 1970s, sources familiar with the announcement said yesterday.

The move is one of two major boosts for the auto maker's Oshawa operations. The other is that a plan to eliminate about 1,000 jobs at one of the company's car plants in that city is being reversed because of strong sales of the Chevrolet Impala mid-sized car, the sources said.

[Cananopie]

Buick is getting a convertible. No idea as to when, or it's name, or even if it's going to be on Zeta, no ones offering details. But they will say that they are working on one and it's going to be made in North America..

182426[/snapback]

Wow. That is awesome to hear. Buick NEEDS something that isn't a sedan or SUV.

[Hudson]

Until recently, I had heard nothing on a Grand Prix replacement...there may be one. But the LaCrosse on Epsilon II has been planned for quite some time.

[wildcat]

Thank you to each person who helped to straighten this post out.

Buick getting a convertible (having one in the pipeline) is w-o-n-d-e-r-f-u-l news! There's no reason to limit Buick to large, 4-door vehicles. (Please make something small, too!)

Bye, Rendezvous; job well done. Bye, LaCrosse; job done. Bye, Rainier (alias "Bravada"). Bye, Terrazza < big dog bark sfx >.

It would mean one more change, but in my opinion, Buick should drop "Beyond Precision" and, in light of what I hope is a styling renaissance, use "B U I C K... The Great American Beauty".

Edited August 21, 2006 by wildcat

[97regalGS]

Thank you to each person who helped to straighten this post out. 

Buick getting a convertible    (having one in the pipeline) is w-o-n-d-e-r-f-u-l news!  There's no reason to limit Buick to large, 4-door vehicles.  (Please make something small, too!)

Bye, Rendezvous; job well done.  Bye, LaCrosse; job done.  Bye, Rainier <alias "Bravada."  Bye, Terrazza < dog bark sfx >.

It would mean one more change, but in my opinion, Buick should drop "Beyond Precision" and, in limit of what I hope is a sgtyling renaissance, use "B U I C K... The Great American Beauty".

182679[/snapback]

Buick would fall in love with Lexus, but Nissan would want to sleep with Buick and when Buick refuses would get a bullet between the headlights.

[Robert Hall]

Please let it not be. The Chinese LaCrosse is a mishmash of horrible styling cues.

182523[/snapback]

No worse than the NA model, which wants to be a Taurus with GS-like headlights..

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

Good rumors/news about a convertible Buick-keep going GM, there's far more expansion to be done so don't pat yourselves on the back and sit yet! There are only two reasons I would get a Buick LaCrosse-particularly over Saturn Aura-Slatestone paint, and a front split-bench seat. Other than that, I bet LaCrosse will see a steep sales drop for 2007 (also factor in Lincoln MKZ/Mercury Milan, Chrysler Sebring, Nissan Altima, Lexus ES330-whose clientele probably wouldn't even touch LaCrosse, and Toyota Camry). 2010 can't come soon enough for LaCrosse, and I hope its not a rebadged Aura or Malibu, and hopefully they'll cut the overall length a good 4-6", and increase width and passenger/cargo room, or at least keep it the same.

[regfootball]

It's been proven it doesn't cause blindness.  Why would they cancel it?

182533[/snapback]

does it at least help carpal tunnel?

both wrists, by the way. damn if i have been researching that.

[ehaase]

No one should get their hopes up about a Buick convertible.

Today's issue of Automotive News said the following:

Coupe, convertible: Buick is no longer considering a halo vehicle based on the rwd Velite convertible concept it showed at the New York auto show in 2004. As GM pushes Buick to align with Pontiac and GMC under one channel, Pontiac will take over as the sporty coupe/convertible brand. Pontiac has the hot-selling Solstice convertible roadster and recently introduced the G6 convertible hardtop, for example.

This is what AN said today about the Lacrosse:

LaCrosse: Buick plans to offer a 5.3-liter V-8 for the 2007 model year. A redesign is expected for the 2010 model year, possibly on General Motors' front-wheel-drive Epsilon 2 architecture.

To reduce costs, all vehicles developed on Epsilon 2 (Chevrolet and Opel, for example) will be engineered by GM Europe in Ruesselsheim, Germany. U.S. operations are to provide specifications for such things as ride and handling. Styling will be determined by the region that will market the car. The LaCrosse will be styled by GM North America. Powertrains will differ by region.

Also, here is what AN says about the Lucerne:

Lucerne: A rear-wheel-drive Lucerne is expected, likely bowing for the 2010 model year. GM's global rwd vehicle architecture is being developed for several brands by Holden, the automaker's Australian operation. The Lucerne name may be replaced at that point.

Edited August 21, 2006 by ehaase

[Ergoman]

No

[buickguy]

No what?

[Chazman]

No one should get their hopes up about a Buick convertible.

I agree. Certainly not in this decade, anyway. Even when the Velite concept was creating all that excitement - there really wasn't serious work being done on a production version.

[Sixty8panther]

So my first post from this thread was deleted somehow... or perhaps

when my wireless connection as acting up yesterday it never went

through and I just did not notice. IN any ase it basically consisted of

me saying:

DIE W-BODY DIE!!!

The Zeta Buiicks will make the old W-body platform look like

K-cars by comparison. The LaCrosse was not a bad vehicle

but it was ugly as sin with that pseudo-Lexus-like nose on a

semi-swoopy but baddly executed body that always reminded

me of KIA or Hyundai.

(Sorry GM1, I know your Mom has one)

[wildcat]

One person says a convertible is in the pipeline, another says nothing in the foreseeable future. Make up your collective minds.

. . . Pontiac will take over as the sporty coupe/convertible brand . . .

182870[/snapback]

And GMC gets the trucks.

So... what does that leave for Buick? Just big, 4-door sedans??? You can't give Buick only vehicles which are in a diminishing market segment. Give them exclusive, class-leading product in a competitive area. Small vehicle? Hybrid vehicle? AWD vehicle?

If Pontiac gets the sporty coupe/convertible cars, then no 4-doors for them. (What's good for the goose is good for the gander.) Drop any G8 idea and give it to Buick.

Maybe they should drop the GMC Acadia ASAP. If it's car-based, let Buick have the Enclave so that it will be the only Lambda crossover in the B-P-G channel. Also, give Buick a small crossover, on Theta (or smaller).

As usual, all this talk about what Saturn and everybody else gets, then crumbs for Buick.

[buickguy]

Not making the Velite is one of GM's biggest blunders.

Buick is an easy brand to turn around. It has a excellent quality (JD Power) and a rich history. Why bother creating awesome concepts (Velite, Bengal, LaCrosse) and not make them?

Why get people and the press excited about Buick and then let them down?

So what if Pontiac has a g-6 convertible. The Velite would be bigger and more upscale and not compete with the Pontiac.

[Hudson]

Don't expect the Zeta-based Lucerne before the 2011 model year.

[wildcat]

Yes, someone indicated production starts October 2010 on the NG Lucerne. I hope they'll deck it out and re-name it Roadmaster!

[ponchoman49]

This car has 3 big problems:

1) Indifferent styling that tries too hard to be Lexus-like

2) Very dated base powertrain

3) It gets very expensive when you option it up or go with the CXS model

There are of course other smaller issues that crop up like way too light cloth seat material, rear seat legroom and headroom and that terribly fake looking woodgrain but I digress. It all became very apparent when I rented a base 2005 CX model. It's not too powerfull feeling 3800, numb but jerky steering, soft suspension, wimpy front end styling, lack of back seat leg and headroom and it's comical, light cloth tan seats that already looked dingy with but 5K on the clock were all reminders of how superior my 2002 Intrigue is!

In checking out the 2007 versions, I still see the terrible plastic wheel covers being used, the cloth seats look almost the same as before despite being called something different, a Chevy Impala/Monte Carlo/Malibu/Lucerne etc steering wheel, the woodgrain looked the same and overall the car is still lackluster. Instead of changing the steering wheel, cloth seat names, colors and red needle pointers I would like to see a bolder front end, new base engine, darker cloth seats and some new colors other than the tiresome gray and tan and an injection of pizzazz. Please Buick, don't let this car languish the same way you did the 1997-2005 Century/Park Ave and 00-05 LeSabre.

[trinacriabob]

does it at least help carpal tunnel?

both wrists, by the way.  damn if  i have been researching that.

182740[/snapback]

Reg, are you bragging by implying you need both hands? Incorrigible architects...damn them!

I am a LaCrosse defender but see some of the inherent flaws. If the following were fixed, wouldn't it be a nice® car?

1. front end, tries to be Lex or Jag, but fails

2. handling which is less than sporty in CX and CXL

3. dash which is rather bland and has a lot of blank space

4. interior cloth seating akin to mousefur

5. sub-optimal space in rear

Aside from that, it is a nice car that offers 10 to 15 years of reliable motoring for the money and that's with the 3800 V6. It just needs to creep up a bit in terms of overall packaging.

Pantho, relax, Zeta will come soon enough. But, then again, won't you be cursing on a slick and slippery winter day up there on the border of MA and NH? :AH-HA_wink:

[VenSeattle]

I read through this topic, but I'll comment on the initial idea of it. We've known of an Eps II LaCrosse for a while. We also know the "LaCrosse" name was just introduced in China. Why would GM just up and cancel the LaCrosse before its replacement is ready? Everything N* said is what I've thought and pretty much agree with.

[daves87rs]

Until recently, I had heard nothing on a Grand Prix replacement...there may be one. But the LaCrosse on Epsilon II has been planned for quite some time.

182665[/snapback]

I would think that the GP name could end up on Zeta....

Buy I'm still not seeing the point of the LaX on espy II...unless..

The new Zeta Buick gets bigger...and more powerful...

Which at that point-would make the NG LaX the smaller, EL Buick....

With a diiference in price point....

Then, everything would make sense.

[thegriffon]

The LaCrosse-sized Zeta Buick is long gone if it was ever considered. What you are looking at is, as Hudson says, a replacement for the Lucerne, a very much larger and potentially more expensive vehicle. With more integrated BPG dealerships develop there is less temptation to whore out Buicks to appease dealers looking for an "entry-level" model. Given the big discounts on the Grand Prix GM will want to divorce the new larger Pontiac from it as much as possible. Only when people forget how cheap they were will GM even think of bringing back the name.

[daves87rs]

The LaCrosse-sized Zeta Buick is long gone if it was ever considered. What you are looking at is, as Hudson says, a replacement for the Lucerne, a very much larger and potentially more expensive vehicle. With more integrated BPG dealerships develop there is less temptation to whore out Buicks to appease dealers looking for an "entry-level" model. Given the big discounts on the Grand Prix GM will want to divorce the new larger Pontiac from it as much as possible. Only when people forget how cheap they were will GM even think of bringing back the name.

183871[/snapback]

But that's what I said...

As far as the GP-it's not that damaged yet. And unlike the Cavalier-it has a long,

rich history...

If we can be wowed by the Camaro...then there is hope for the GP.

Besides-who wants to buy a giant number? (G8)?

[haypops]

. What you are looking at is, as Hudson says, a replacement for the Lucerne, a very much larger and potentially more expensive vehicle.

183871[/snapback]

If it is going to be even more expensive, then why didn't Buick get a RWD sedan earlier via the Sigma platform? How much cheaper is the Zeta to build than the Sigma? The CTS is advertised locally at $27k. How do these two platforms compare in price and techical detail?

[thegriffon]

The moderately larger Commodore with 3.6 L V6 (with 4-speed auto) retails locally from around the same price, so you can see why North America was initially not impressed with the Zeta program costs. Of course a lot of that is increased expense for transporting V6 blocks and transmissions etc across the Pacific, and part is just local market expectations and lower volumes. For it's size the CTS is also way underpriced—after all it's probably bigger inside than a G6, and not really much more expensive until you start adding options not available on the Pontiac. Aiming too low has long been GM NA's undoing. Technical details are similar, but the way they are put together (materials and structural design) is different. GM NA has done a lot to cut costs, some of which is possible because of potentially higher volumes (twice what Holden produces).

[Imaj]

Well, they messed up the LaCrosse by making it look like the last generation Sonata

[Sixty8panther]

Harley Earl once said something along the lines of:

of "The front of the car, that's the most important,

that's the face right there."

The LaCrosse looks like a dead fish.

Well, they messed up the LaCrosse by making it look like the last generation Sonata 

184343[/snapback]

Exactly.

[SimonDavid]

Sorry I've got a bit lost in all of this :

- Is the next gen EP2 Lacross going to be shared with China?

- If BPG dealers are going to be more integrated in future then -

- what happens to the G6 / Lacross overlap (both on Epsilon in future)?

- where does the talk of large RWD Pontiacs fit in?