Buick LaCrosse to be Cancelled?

[ehaase]

http://64.65.63.61/forums/showthread.php?t=467420

[ocnblu]

Well damn, Buick can't be expected to thrive with ONE sedan, even the excellent Lucerne. This is prolly just the W-body version they're alluding to, with the Epsilon II platform coming. Maybe it will reintro the Skylark name.

[trinacriabob]

This brings up several questions:

1. Are LaCrosse sales slow? Really? Part of it is their fault - there are areas in which it could have been better and people have chimed in on that?

2. Will there be a mid-cycle enhancement? That is, 2008. How about for Grand Prix (which is supposed to continue). And how does GP continue when it is pretty much accepted that LaX, on the same platform, is the better of the two?

3. P-L-E-A-S-E don't bring back the Skylark name. So dorky, sorry. Maybe they should have gone "Allure" across the board.

GM's maneuvers and shell gaming is getting really hard to follow. Does anybody have a clue as to what their compact to full-size line-up will look like in 3 years? I am truly flustered.

[wildcat]

I think we're getting worked up over nothing. I think this means the W-body only.

GM sure has taken its time showing the LaCrosse Super.

Have Lucerne's sales cannabalized LaCrosse's? I think so.

trinacriabob: I agree, a big part of it is GM's fault.

Is the LaCrosse on Epsilon II still a go? Shrink it so it's nowhere close to Lucerne in size.

ocnblu: The Epsilon II LaCrosse should be a world of difference from the W-body LaCrosse, so maybe a name change is in order. Either Allure or Skylark's ok with me, but I'll stick my neck out and say they should name it "Wildcat," especially if this is Buick's "performance" car - and GM has promised Buick would have one.

ehaase: Thanks for bringing this to our attention. But weren't there signs that GM might drop the Pontiac G6 so LaCrosse could go forward as B-P-G's mid-size? Is it possible the resurgence of G6 sales has influenced a change in plans?

[Croc]

Yea EP-II is still on. Maybe it's getting pushed up a year?

[WCCPSGM]

Sad fact of life, Buicks are typically bought by older people. Why are people surprised when a car targeted at young buyers from a company preferred by older people doesn't do well.

The Century was well accepted by this older crowd. It was the official retirement car of teachers in my county. It was replaced by a car which looked good, but is lacking in back seat amenities when compared to similar cars, something the youger crowd still considers important.

I think the idea is to put the Lacrosse on the Malibu FWD platform. I have no proof of this, but if the Lucern is going RWD along with Impala and GP, the Lacrosse is left out in the cold.

I think they should take a RWD Suburban Chasis, put a sedan body on it, and call it the Electra 225!

[Croc]

I really don't think the LaCrosse was targeted at "young" people...but definitely younger people than Century.

I think they should take a RWD Suburban Chasis, put a sedan body on it, and call it the Electra 225!

182207[/snapback]

Just...no.

[pow]

LaCrosse is too expensive for what it is, especially since the Lucerne is only ~$2000 more.

[Flybrian]

LaCrosse does get pricey. I spec'd one out the way I'd like it and I could buy a used Lucerne CXS with 5000 miles on it for the same price.

[ehaase]

ehaase:  Thanks for bringing this to our attention.  But weren't there signs that GM might drop the Pontiac G6 so LaCrosse could go forward as B-P-G's mid-size?  Is it possible the resurgence of G6 sales has influenced a change in plans?

182194[/snapback]

GuionM posted this on another board, and I thought that his post would interest people here. I don't have any additional knowledge about GM's plans beyond what I read here, the Camaro Z28 board, Hudson's posts at GMI, and Automotive News.

I don't want GM to drop the G6 because it is Pontiac's core model, just as the Lucerne is Buick's core model.

[wildcat]

ehaase: Yes, we both agree that what GuionM writes typically merits people's attention. But I hope he's forgotten about LaCrosse going to Epsilon II. Was my comment about G6 flat-out incorrect, or have plans changed? There was a period where Pontiac's future was in question and it may have been at that time that someone suggested that G6 would be dropped. But that, too, may have been when only the G6 sedan had been on sale.

[MisterMe]

Why are we discussing a rumor from another fan site?

[wildcat]

Because the person who posted it on the other site regularly has good information and is knowledgeable, and the person who called it to our attention here keeps up on things and is well-spoken.

[Achelous]

182231[/snapback]

So it's B.S., is it? Hmm. I remember all that stuff saying that W was going to go away after 2008, but it doesn't seem feasible to completely drop the LaX without some replacement. + fleets will always buy them and they're cheap as dirt to produce, given the 4 speed/W-body/3800 combo used on most versions.

[CSpec]

Well the W-body Lacrosse was only going to be in production until March 2008 anyway right? The Epsilon II Lacrosse is still on-line to start production in early 2009 as far as I know. It's commonized with the Chinese Lacrosse so I can't imagine that has been cancelled.

[trinacriabob]

So it's B.S., is it? Hmm. I remember all that stuff saying that W was going to go away after 2008, but it doesn't seem feasible to completely drop the LaX without some replacement. + fleets will always buy them and they're cheap as dirt to produce, given the 4 speed/W-body/3800 combo used on most versions.

182246[/snapback]

Sir, you with some 30+ posts, are making all the sense in the world.

2008 is when the mid cycle enhancement is supposed to occur for the W body GP and LaX...and I'd like to see that occur. Not that I'm lamenting the upcoming Zeta (as I struggle to successfuly tinker with my sideways mounted 3800 W body)

Also, as you point out, the economies of scale for these cars are fantastic. Except for some face-lifting, this is technology that has been in place since the 1997 model year (GP, Regal) that has been "paid for," so to speak.

[Cadillacfan]

Buick won't get rid of the Lacrosse. Not when they're so close the mid-cycle refresh. Once that comes around, it might pick up sales a bit... it might not. The biggest problem right now with the lacrosse (though, there are a lot of big problems) is that GM has done very little with adding new things on to each new model year car to get anyone to buy one. They can do what toyota does and make slight exterior changes to differentiate it from the previous model year. Add a new bumper, change the color of the tail lamps, do anything GM!!! It doesn't have to cost a lot.

Then when EPII comes, they won't have to start from scratch again with customers.

[Croc]

guys...the new LaCrosse is arriving for/in 2009. The MCE would be for 2008 at the earliest. I really don't think it's gonna happen.

Here's my thought: Buick LaCrosse is dropped after the 2007 model year...but the 2007s are produced until August/September 2007. Buick releases the new Epsilon-II LaCrosse in January of 2008 as an early 2009 model, thereby skipping a 2008 year. It happened with the Aurora, so I wouldn't rule it out.

[wildcat]

I wish you were right.

But what was that gray LaCrosse with dual tailpipes spotted a short time ago?

[daves87rs]

It is going to be gone..but not until at least the 09MY...

Chances are buick will get something to replace it...maybe two.

Sales of the LaX are still dropping...it's getting to the point that it might be better

to faze it out soon...

I think the Aura is going to pick up the slack-and what's left of the LaX owners....

Not to mention Buick will be fine without it.....they could adjust the Lucrene's trim

levels to fill the gap if needed....

[daves87rs]

guys...the new LaCrosse is arriving for/in 2009.  The MCE would be for 2008 at the earliest.  I really don't think it's gonna happen.

Here's my thought: Buick LaCrosse is dropped after the 2007 model year...but the 2007s are produced until August/September 2007.  Buick releases the new Epsilon-II LaCrosse in January of 2008 as an early 2009 model, thereby skipping a 2008 year.  It happened with the Aurora, so I wouldn't rule it out.

182258[/snapback]

I don't know about that. It's still pointless to have both the LaX and lucrene together anyways....they are close in price, and two sedans that close doesn't make sense anymore.

Biuck needs a Vert, coupe, just something else. Period.

If the LaX does come back-it needs to be cheaper than than its big brother-and

offer value for that money...kinda like the Aura-even G6...

[daves87rs]

Well damn, Buick can't be expected to thrive with ONE sedan, even the excellent Lucerne.  This is prolly just the W-body version they're alluding to, with the Epsilon II platform coming.  Maybe it will reintro the Skylark name.

182183[/snapback]

Hmmm...

Why not Ocn? They could always offer something else...even another crossover or

something...

[Croc]

I don't know about that. It's still pointless to have both the LaX and lucrene together anyways....they are close in price, and two sedans that close doesn't make sense anymore.

Biuck needs a Vert, coupe, just something else. Period.

If the LaX does come back-it needs to be cheaper than than its big brother-and

offer value for that money...kinda like the Aura-even G6...

182263[/snapback]

The EP-II LaCrosse will be similar in size to the G6 and AURA. This is slightly smaller than the W car, and the size difference will be more apparent when compared to the Lucerne. Also, when Lucerne moves to Zeta, it will become RWD with LaCrosse staying FWD. Finally, if the LaCrosse moves to EP-II, Lucerne will be able to move further upmarket if necessary.

[Guest buickman]

Remember the so called "rantings" of the crazed Buickman who foretold of "Red Ink Rick's" Grand Plan to own distribution of offshore production. He is, and has been, fully focused on closing Buick as he did Oldsmobile. For that secret agenda and for lying to dealers, shareholders, employees, and retirees, he should not only be thrown out, but thrown into prison.

from www.thetruthaboutcars.com

The best I can do is reference Martha Mitchell. Mrs. Mitchell's husband John was the US Attorney General under Richard Nixon. Mrs. M would call Washington reporters in the middle of the night with bizarre tales of illegal activities: a secret enemies list, South American assassinations, break-ins, wiretaps, the FBI Director wearing a dress and more. By the time these reporters realized Mitchell wasn't a crazy drunk, her husband was in jail for conspiracy, obstruction of justice and perjury. In other words, while it's easy to dismiss Buickman's rants as the sour fruit of a man scorned by GM's Boy's Club, being bitter doesn't make a man a fool. Or, come to think of it, wrong.

[trinacriabob]

that GM has done very little with adding new things on to each new model year car to get anyone to buy one.  They can do what toyota does and make slight exterior changes to differentiate it from the previous model year.  Add a new bumper, change the color of the tail lamps, do anything GM!!!  It doesn't have to cost a lot.

182255[/snapback]

Good observation. GM was almost wasteful a couple of decades ago in this regard and now they are spartan. Look at GPs in last 2 gens that have seen virtually ZERO changes from year to year. I think minor freshenings are due periodically.

[regfootball]

it would be progress if they killed the LaCrosse as soon as possible, IMO. what they DO need to do is come out with a LaCrosse replacement ASAP on anything besides the old w body.

Buick still needs to fill this segment, but anyone who thinks the current LaCrosse would be competitive beyond mid 2008 is on some crack.

Edited August 20, 2006 by regfootball

[razoredge]

yea they better bust a move quick in a somewhat smaller model from a modern design. Lacrosse is just sitting and sitting and sitting. More Lucernes seen already. Lacrosse is a great car but it looks old and out of place on new dealer lots. They still need at least two car models but should really have 3 or two versions of two models. Like maybe a 2dr. or a more aggressive personal lux grand sport.........ah.....its just not 1966 anymore and not enough people want that type of car.

[Guest YellowJacket894]

Something here isn't making sense.

Maybe the LaCrosse "Super" we got to see a glimpse of was really the EP-2 LaCrosse. As for the V8 in the "Super," Automobile magazine said that the 2008 Malibu may have that option, so maybe EP-2 can accept one after all (although I still doubt it).

I hope I don't see Buick end up with just two cars (Lucerne and Enclave). That would be sad.

Edited August 20, 2006 by YellowJacket894

[Croc]

EP-II Malibu won't have a V8...makes absolutely ZERO sense.

[Guest YellowJacket894]

EP-II Malibu won't have a V8...makes absolutely ZERO sense.

182296[/snapback]

Hey, I'm just paraphrasing what I read in that magazine. I never said I really believed it. Go look for yourself if you can find a copy of the August 2006 installment of Automobile.

[Croc]

Hey, I'm just paraphrasing what I read in that magazine. I never said I really believed it. Go look for yourself if you can find a copy of the August 2006 installment of Automobile.

182298[/snapback]

I don't doubt that Automobile printed it...only a magazine could come up with something that illogical. Why so defensive anyway? I didn't call you a moron.

[Guest YellowJacket894]

I don't doubt that Automobile printed it...only a magazine could come up with something that illogical.  Why so defensive anyway?  I didn't call you a moron.

182303[/snapback]

Sorry if I sounded that way. It's been a long day.

[The O.C.]

Except for some face-lifting, this is technology that has been in place since the 1997 model year (GP, Regal) that has been "paid for," so to speak.

182251[/snapback]

If you wanna get technical, it's technology that's been in place since 1988 (original W-body coupes.)

[SS427]

I think this just means GM is doing somthing that it should have done a very long time ago and that is get rid of one of the (many) worst memories of the Roger Smith era and that is the W (GM-10) platform which has caused GM so much problems and cost them so much money, they are just now taking that platform to a level to were it should have been 20 years ago when it first came out. All I can say is good by and good riddance, the sooner GM can correct the damage that was done during the Roger Smith era (and before) and move to new products like the Zeta, Epslon II, etc. the better off it will be.

[Gord]

This brings up several questions:

1.  Are LaCrosse sales slow?  Really?  Part of it is their fault - there are areas in which it could have been better and people have chimed in on that?

2.  Will there be a mid-cycle enhancement?  That is, 2008. How about for Grand Prix (which is supposed to continue). And how does GP continue when it is pretty much accepted that LaX, on the same platform, is the better of the two?

3.  P-L-E-A-S-E don't bring back the Skylark name.  So dorky, sorry.  Maybe they should have gone "Allure" across the board.

GM's maneuvers and shell gaming is getting really hard to follow.  Does anybody have a clue as to what their compact to full-size line-up will look like in 3 years?  I am truly flustered.

182189[/snapback]

ive heard new sheet metal for 2008 will know more later after announcement on monday

[97regalGS]

Because the person who posted it on the other site regularly has good information and is knowledgeable, and the person who called it to our attention here keeps up on things and is well-spoken.

182232[/snapback]

http://www.cheersandgears.com/forums/index...ic=10680&st=160

[97regalGS]

Remember the so called "rantings" of the crazed Buickman who foretold of "Red Ink Rick's" Grand Plan to own distribution of offshore production. He is, and has been, fully focused on closing Buick as he did Oldsmobile. For that secret agenda and for lying to dealers, shareholders, employees, and retirees, he should not only be thrown out, but thrown into prison.

from www.thetruthaboutcars.com

The best I can do is reference Martha Mitchell. Mrs. Mitchell's husband John was the US Attorney General under Richard Nixon. Mrs. M would call Washington reporters in the middle of the night with bizarre tales of illegal activities: a secret enemies list, South American assassinations, break-ins, wiretaps, the FBI Director wearing a dress and more. By the time these reporters realized Mitchell wasn't a crazy drunk, her husband was in jail for conspiracy, obstruction of justice and perjury. In other words, while it's easy to dismiss Buickman's rants as the sour fruit of a man scorned by GM's Boy's Club, being bitter doesn't make a man a fool. Or, come to think of it, wrong.

182266[/snapback]

so you are admitting that you sound like a 'crazy drunk woman'. that is the first step, realizing you have a problem.

[ocnblu]

NO...WIRE...HANGERS!!!!!

[hyperv6]

The loss of the GP and LaCross is no big loss as they both are one of the oldest cars GM has today I know they are have been updated well but the point is they need new product to replace these.

If sales were in the present Impala range I could see them keeping them but they are not and sometimes you have to cut the toe off to save the foot.

I am sure they have some plan and from what GM has been doing of late they do not always have the new car ready as one leaves the market so I would not be surprised if there is some gap.

If anything these cars were gone in 08 anyway from what we have been hearing!

Lets face it the a V8 W body LaCrosse vs it's rivals is not much of a match up due to the older platform.

Edited August 20, 2006 by hyperv6

[Dsuupr]

With todays gas prices, it makes sense that Buick will also won't a smaller, Malibu, sized vehicle. Especially with the Hybrid option.

Babyboomers are into "fixing" the environment and they are getting old. What better vehicle than a Buick that is a Hybird.

[daves87rs]

The loss of the GP and LaCross is no big loss as they both are one of the oldest cars GM has today I know they are have been updated well but the point is they need new product to replace these.

If sales were in the present Impala range I could see them keeping them but they are not and sometimes you have to cut the toe off to save the foot.

I am sure they have some plan and from what GM has been doing of late they do not always have the new car ready as one leaves the market so I would not be surprised if there is some gap.

If anything these cars were gone in 08 anyway from what we have been hearing!

Lets face it the a V8 W body LaCrosse vs it's rivals is not much of a match up due to the older platform.

182358[/snapback]

True-though my thinking is that the GP name will end up on Pontiac's RWD sedan

anyways..

[Cananopie]

Has anybody heard that they've officially dropped the LaCrosse Super? Because they would not introduce the LaCrosse Super (the one that has been described to us as the LaCrossse that is most definitely on the same platform) if this was the case. Buick has been carting that thing around to shows under a sheet and typically that won't happen with a cancelled product...

Are the LaCrosse sales that fantastically down really? From what year sales is he comparing the Regal/Century sales to the LaCrosse? Does the fact that the LaCrosse starts significantly more than the Century did contribute to this? Of course. How about the fact that it is only one car instead of two? Probably. Do we even know of another GM vehicle that ran for 4 years and was completely refreshed?

It's impossible for the LaCrosse to get cancelled. Buick will have the Lucerne and the Enclave. If that happens Buick might as well be dead- what is the point of a company with 2 vehicles? This whole thread seems kind of silly because it's hard to believe GM is ready to cut out ANOTHER Buick vehicle without announcing their demise like Olds.

[wildcat]

Sorry, but I got lost in the discussion.

I read the link in which Evok called into question the information GuionM has been sharing and suggested that he be more responsible in his posts, if he is to be considered an "insider." (GuionM said in that post that there'll be a Buick convertible, but not the Statesman and not imported from Australia.)

So... is the thought that LaCrosse is done after the W-body, or that there'll be one on Epsilon II?

Or is it Buick will have an Epsilon II but not necessarily named LaCrosse, and possibly it may be a convertible?

I'm glad if GM is dropping the long-in-the-tooth W body and the LaCrosse name can go (since they screwed it up with Allure, and, in my opinion, is better suited for a crossover). As long as Buick gets a competitive, class-leading vehicle, whatever it may be. Just don't make it a half-hearted attempt and slap the "Velite" name on it, thinking it'll be good enough for the public.

[The O.C.]

NO...WIRE...HANGERS!!!!!  

182356[/snapback]

"Bahhhhbra Puleeeeeze..."

:wink:

[Guest YellowJacket894]

Has anybody heard that they've officially dropped the LaCrosse Super? Because they would not introduce the LaCrosse Super (the one that has been described to us as the LaCrossse that is most definitely on the same platform) if this was the case. Buick has been carting that thing around to shows under a sheet and typically that won't happen with a cancelled product...

That follows the thinking I mentioned earlier.

Maybe the LaCrosse "Super" we got to see a glimpse of was really the EP-2 LaCrosse.

For the record, here's what we got to see.

I guess we might know something by the LA or NAIAS auto shows...

Edited August 20, 2006 by YellowJacket894

[hyperv6]

True-though my thinking is that the GP name will end up on Pontiac's RWD sedan

anyways..

182362[/snapback]

Like this?

love my GP but it's time has come to an end as a FWD. It is a no brainer to know Pontiac will get a RWD sedan if it is to survive. Just the question is when and what they will call it. I hope they will drop this G number system but I understand thier trying to market to folks who would have never bought Pontiac before.

Anyone also note they had two Holden UTE's at the Woodward Cruise this weekend. One was RHD.

Edited August 20, 2006 by hyperv6

[CaddyXLR-V]

Like this?

love my GP but it's time has come to an end as a FWD. It is a no brainer to know Pontiac will get a RWD sedan if it is to survive. Just the question is when and what they will call it. I hope they will drop this G number system but I understand thier trying to market to folks who would have never bought Pontiac before.

Anyone also note they had two Holden UTE's at the Woodward Cruise this weekend. One was RHD.

182402[/snapback]

The front even works as a Pontiac

[trinacriabob]

For the record, here's what we got to see.

182395[/snapback]

EXACTLY. That's the kind of freshening LaX needs (though less gaudy for the base models)...and a few others

Yeah, this whole thing is weird...no announcement...and a BIG GAPING HOLE at the entry level to the Buick marque...this doesn't make sense.

[guionM]

I wrote that.

It's based on the apparent fact that while everything else made at Oshawa has a future there of some duration during & after the plant is revamped, Lacrosse apparently does not.

Impala, Monte Carlo, Grand Prix, and Regal names all have a long standing exclusive agreement with the local CAW to produce those cars at Oshawa. Allure (the Lacrosse's name in Canada) also is part of that agreement.

I kept speculation, unsubstantiated rumors and sensitive items out of that post. However, I'll say on here that the Lacrosse name most likely won't continue when or if a replacement is made. I can easily take a wild guess at one of the reasons, but still the Lacrosse seems to have been a transitional car for Buick, and was scheduled for a comparatively short life anyway.

Lacrosse Super is unaffected. The investment into making the Super was very small... the setup is already in the Impala SS, Monte Carlo SS, and Grand Prix GXP... and can easily be a 1 or 2 year car (remember the supercharged SS?).

The G6 is going nowhere, it's doing very well now. The Grand Prix is eventially going to move to the rwd chassis (my guess is a year or 2 after Chevy has their RWD sedan).

Buick is getting a convertible. No idea as to when, or it's name, or even if it's going to be on Zeta, no ones offering details. But they will say that they are working on one and it's going to be made in North America..

Edited August 20, 2006 by guionM

[guionM]

Sorry, but I got lost in the discussion.

I read the link in which Evok called into question the information GuionM has been sharing and suggested that he be more responsible in his posts, if he is to be considered an "insider."  (GuionM said in that post that there'll be a Buick convertible, but not the Statesman and not imported from Australia.)

I recall saying that the Statesman would be exported from Australia, and that the Buick convertible would not.

The more responsible thing to say would have been that GM-NA is "evaluating" a couple of Holden VE products for sale in the US, and that Buick has a convertible "in the pipeline".

Ocassionally, I do get caught up in debates and post a bit too much.

Gonna crank it down a bit in the future.