Sexual Preference

[ocnblu]

CB, just what are you implying, sir? :huh:

Mr. Myers, you either sound very cool and calm about all this (unlike poor Nick), or you're very cornfused. I'm going to go with the former. Here's to you:


:cheers: Edited January 10, 2006 by ocnblu

[jlgolden]

Happy, proud, and comfortable to tell everyone that I'm gay, too. I believe that attractions, tendencies, love, lust, and sexuality are very complicated issues. At 32 years old, I finally came out to my parents (about 6 months ago) and have never felt more relieved. Edited January 10, 2006 by jlgolden

[Drew Dowdell]

Happy, proud, and comfortable to tell everyone that I'm gay, too. I believe that attractions, tendencies, love, lust, and sexuality are very complicated issues.  At 32 years old, I finally came out to my parents (about 6 months ago) and have never felt more relieved.

[post="71480"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

How'd they handle it?

[zoomtm]

did they accept you?

[MyerShift]

CB, just what are you implying, sir? :huh:

Mr. Myers, you either sound very cool and calm about all this (unlike poor Nick), or you're very cornfused.  I'm going to go with the former.  Here's to you:
:cheers:

[post="71451"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Why thank you, mon ami.
I try to maintain my composure when things start to go strangely. I have decided that I should accept people for who they are rather than what they do. It's part of my new mantra about trying not to judge people when I have my own faults and shortcomings. I like to think of myself on the cool and calm side, even if everyone thinks I am so deep in the closet I'm finding Christmas presents. That's not to say I don't go totally berserk once in a while, but it's not in regard to my stated social encounters.
Besides, I had to back up the statements I made here with real life experiences.

[Mike The Canadian]

personally, i'm straight, I dont USUALLY have a problem with gays...but there are times where I kind of get pissed off and feel akward... being hit on, or constantly seeing gay shit sometimes does that to me.. otherwise I try to stay calm, I dont have anything against anyone, up to certain points...hell I have gay friends. As for no sexual attraction to girls, I must admit I know what you are talking about, though in a different way. Normal girls that I see, I can be sexually attracted to, a certain girl I think i'm in love with..the first thing that comes to mind has never been sex... ask any of my friends and you'll know that says something :lol: I am personally not homophobic, I dont see a reason to be...though as stated above I sometimes am a little bit once things go overboard... I am also strongly opinioated peronality wise....and stubborn I guess... yeah i've been rambling for a while, i'll post some other time again :lol:

[sciguy_0504]

I love Arby's, especially the roast beef with cheese and the homestyle fries. The best fast food money can buy. They closed the one near me years ago and there isn't another one close by.

[MyerShift]

I love Arby's, especially the roast beef with cheese and the homestyle fries.  The best fast food money can buy.  They closed the one near me years ago and there isn't another one close by.

[post="71788"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Arby's? Where did that come from? Lol.
I used to work at the Arby's in Coldwater, but I quit recently because my fellow crew supervisor was, well, to put it mildly, a bitch.

Roast beef and cheese? Which one?

The Beef n' Cheddar on the onion bun with 3 oz of beef, the cheese, and red ranch sauce?
The Arby's Melt on the sesame seed bun with 2 oz of beef, and cheese?
A regular (sesame seed bun, 3 oz of beef) with cheese added? Edited January 10, 2006 by MyerShift

[LosAngeles]

I have to wonder if the gays on this site outnumber us hets*. *Ask where I got the term from, and I'll explain it.

[funkypunnk]

We're winning!  :lol:  :lol:

I'm very curious to see how many gay men are on this site!

[post="13386"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I gotta say this, and let me preface it with the statement that I have no problem with whatever preference you have. I just find it particularly offensive to first advertise ones preference, and second to make an issue of it. The vast majority of heterosexual people do not go around and blatantly force their heterosexuality upon non-heterosexuals, and second they don't make it an issue that they are hetero. Why do homosexuals feel it is soooooo darn important to force this upon people like me who don't really care what your preference is as long as it stays yours and yours alone, in other words discreet.

I don't feel that this is appropriate on a website such as this as it has absolutely no value to the majority of the forum. This doesn't seem like something that you would talk about "around the office, in front of your boss for that matter" unless you worked for the ACLU. Therefore it does not even meet the criteria of the lounge.

I would like to think that I could have trusted my daughter who is 15 to read and participate on this site, yet in the past I have seen language that was inappropriate as well as jokes that were of a very adult nature. Add to these experiences this current thread and poll, and it paints a sad picture on a forum that otherwise shines very brightly. This place is about cars and the car business, and if politics are off limits, I would imagine this subject should be as well as it is just as volatile.

Let's clean it up a bit!

[Enzora]

I love Arby's, especially the roast beef with cheese and the homestyle fries.  The best fast food money can buy.  They closed the one near me years ago and there isn't another one close by.

[post="71788"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

So, I guess sciguy fits under the "other" category, huh? :huh:

:P

[funkypunnk]

Let's ALL not forget.....being gay is NOT just about SEX.  Yes, it is about who we have a physical and sexual attraction to....but there's a HUGE emotional component to that as well.......being gay is also who we are going to fall in love with....and who we'll want to spend the rest of our lives with....and so on....

Being gay is so much more than sexual....it's much more complex than that.  Razor, YES....you can go have sex with a man.....but even IF you did that, it still wouldn't make you "gay."

[post="62011"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

BUT, usually when I observe gay couples, and I see alot as my company is based out of San Francisco, one of the two people usually has qualities very similar to the opposite sex. In other words, one guy is very feminine, while the other is more masculine. With that said, if you prefer a gay guy who is more sensitive, emotional, soft, warm, and nurturing, why not just prefer a woman because other than the equipment, that is what you want. That leaves only the equipment and that is physical, therefore it is a choice and not something that I personally believe you are "born with". I feel it due to alacking of good male role models or too many strong female role models. Society has done you a disservice, and your preferences have been permanently mutated as a result.

Just my opinion, but since y'all brought this subject up, I guess I'll participate until the thread is closed.

[Satty]

This thread wont die, its awesome.

[Satty]

So, I guess sciguy fits under the "other" category, huh?  :huh:

:P

[post="71827"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I imagine having sex with a roast beef sandwich would be quite.....wait, why am I imagining having sex with a roast beef sandwich?

[TurboRush]

I gotta say this, and let me preface it with the statement that I have no problem with whatever preference you have. I just find it particularly offensive to first advertise ones preference, and second to make an issue of it. The vast majority of heterosexual people do not go around and blatantly force their heterosexuality upon non-heterosexuals, and second they don't make it an issue that they are hetero. Why do homosexuals feel it is soooooo darn important to force this upon people like me who don't really care what your preference is as long as it stays yours and yours alone, in other words discreet.

I don't feel that this is appropriate on a website such as this as it has absolutely no value to the majority of the forum. This doesn't seem like something that you would talk about "around the office, in front of your boss for that matter" unless you worked for the ACLU. Therefore it does not even meet the criteria of the lounge.

I would like to think that I could have trusted my daughter who is 15 to read and participate on this site, yet in the past I have seen language that was inappropriate as well as jokes that were of a very adult nature. Add to these experiences this current thread and poll, and it paints a sad picture on a forum that otherwise shines very brightly. This place is about cars and the car business, and if politics are off limits, I would imagine this subject should be as well as it is just as volatile.

Let's clean it up a bit!

[post="71821"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

You know, I do agree with this when its outside of the lounge, but there has been many subjects and discussions in the lounge that have nothing to do with or remotely anything to do with cars and that is what the lounge is for.

And speaking of what can be tlaked about "At work" well, we have an employee lounging area in the cafeteria and outside on the terace. This would be considered the "lounge" at my work. We can discuss whatever the hell we want when we are not logged in the phones and out of the office setting. (you would probably be surprised at what you would hear when ppl are not on the phones and at work !!)

That being said, I would disagree to tightening up the rules or narowing down of topics of discussions when it is in the Lounge..... isn't that what a lounge is for after all????

But yeah, having a relation to one's sexual preference influence each post in the lounge is a bit excessive. If ther's a topic for it (like the pictures topic or the sexual preferences topic) then it should be reserved for them and not washed into every other topic...hnece the reason why we have topics to begin with!!?!?~!!

[funkypunnk]

You know, I do agree with this when its outside of the lounge, but there has been many subjects and discussions in the lounge that have nothing to do with or remotely anything to do with cars and that is what the lounge is for.

And speaking of what can be tlaked about "At work" well, we have an employee lounging area in the cafeteria and outside on the terace. This would be considered the "lounge" at my work. We can discuss whatever the hell we want when we are not logged in the phones and out of the office setting. (you would probably be surprised at what you would hear when ppl are not on the phones and at work !!)

That being said, I would disagree to tightening up the rules or narowing down of topics of discussions when it is in the Lounge..... isn't that what a lounge is for after all????

But yeah, having a relation to one's sexual preference influence each post in the lounge is a bit excessive. If ther's a topic for it (like the pictures topic or the sexual preferences topic) then it should be reserved for them and not washed into every other topic...hnece the reason why we have topics to begin with!!?!?~!!

[post="71839"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I was merely quoting the rules for the lounge, about talking about the subject in front of your boss. Not in an obscure lounge, but in front of the boss. It is clearly stated at the top any time you reply.

[zoomtm]

This thread wont die, its awesome.

[post="71829"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

just like you satty B)

[ocnblu]

Funkypunnk... maybe I'm the one who first spilled subtle and not-so-subtle gay oneliners into otherwise non-sexual threads. If so, sorry. I personally never wanted to offend the majority.

It is not a choice. It comes from way deeper than conscious choice. Also, your "gender role" view of gay couples is flatout wrong, for the majority of people. Most couples like to switch "who's on top", if I may put it that bluntly, since you've decided not to invite your daughter to the forum (purely your choice, and I respect that.)

I'm not going to get too excited about your stated views, even though I disagree with much of what you've posted in this thread. We're all adults, each entitled to our own views.

I would like to know more about the red LeMans to the left of your signature. Have you told us about it in the Reader's Rides section here? If not, please consider posting more pictures of it there, along with a story. Edited January 11, 2006 by ocnblu

[TurboRush]

I was merely quoting the rules for the lounge, about talking about the subject in front of your boss. Not in an obscure lounge, but in front of the boss. It is clearly stated at the top any time you reply.

[post="71848"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Bosses included........

for example, one of my managers is Gay and Smokes pot on a daily basis..... you can see the direction the "Lounge" conversations probably go....

[zoomtm]

Bosses included........

for example, one of my managers is Gay and Smokes pot on a daily basis..... you can see the direction the "Lounge" conversations probably go....

[post="71862"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

:lol:


:CG_all:

[funkypunnk]

Funkypunnk... maybe I'm the one who first spilled subtle and not-so-subtle gay oneliners into otherwise non-sexual threads.  If so, sorry.  I personally never wanted to offend the majority.

It is not a choice.  It comes from way deeper than conscious choice.  Also, your "gender role" view of gay couples is flatout wrong, for the majority of people.  Most couples like to switch "who's on top", if I may put it that bluntly, since you've decided not to invite your daughter to the forum (purely your choice, and I respect that.)

I'm not going to get too excited about your stated views, even though I disagree with much of what you've posted in this thread.  We're all adults, each entitled to our own views.

I would like to know more about the red LeMans to the left of your signature.  Have you told us about it in the Reader's Rides section here?  If not, please consider posting more pictures of it there, along with a story.

[post="71861"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Thanks for your reply, and I normally would never stae the things I said because they come from a position of total ignorance to the subject. I am not gay, therefore I could never understand it or explain it. I choose not to discuss it for that reason and others.

As far as the LeMans, I will add the story to readers rides but basically:
My daughter and I were avoiding some traffic and drove past it on a corner with a for sale sign in the window. I had promised her a car for half the average price of a new car when she turned 16. At the time she was only 13. She said she wanted that car. I bought it for 1000 less than he was asking, about 3100. I then dropped another two grand building a Pontiac 400 for it, as well as 500.00 on other things like missing trim, upholstery, etc. I will add pictures and a more in depth story in the rides section.

So you know, I am an accepting person, and draw no negative conclusions due to anyone's preference. I would have just as big a problem with some woman running up to me in a thong on the street and bragging about her heterosexuality. Finally, I am probably the most sexually adventurous and least bit prude-like of anyone I know, but seperate my bedroom from my living room. I open up in the right environments, but only then!

Thanks again

[Cory Wolfe]

I gotta say this, and let me preface it with the statement that I have no problem with whatever preference you have. I just find it particularly offensive to first advertise ones preference, and second to make an issue of it. The vast majority of heterosexual people do not go around and blatantly force their heterosexuality upon non-heterosexuals, and second they don't make it an issue that they are hetero. Why do homosexuals feel it is soooooo darn important to force this upon people like me who don't really care what your preference is as long as it stays yours and yours alone, in other words discreet.

I don't feel that this is appropriate on a website such as this as it has absolutely no value to the majority of the forum. This doesn't seem like something that you would talk about "around the office, in front of your boss for that matter" unless you worked for the ACLU. Therefore it does not even meet the criteria of the lounge.

I would like to think that I could have trusted my daughter who is 15 to read and participate on this site, yet in the past I have seen language that was inappropriate as well as jokes that were of a very adult nature. Add to these experiences this current thread and poll, and it paints a sad picture on a forum that otherwise shines very brightly. This place is about cars and the car business, and if politics are off limits, I would imagine this subject should be as well as it is just as volatile.

Let's clean it up a bit!

[post="71821"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

TR, for the most part, has it right. I just want to know how you think we are forcing it upon you. Yes, we sometimes end up posting into other topics designated for this, but we don't have some "let's force our sexuality upon heterosexuals" agenda. It's simply having fun talking to each other. We're not forcing anything on you. If you think about, what you think we are forcing on you could go the other way. Talking about wives, children, girlfriends, and posting pics of women is what you would call "forcing" it on homosexuals. Many heterosexual memebers here do that. It's no different. I think there is a little bit of a problem toward our sexuality. If otherwise, you wouldn't have had any problems what so ever. My family is like this, so I have first hand experience. It's why I'm very hesitant to come out to them.

As for this not being alright for the Lounge.... Well, in the 2 years that I've been here, it hasn't changed much. This sort of stuff has always been existant and generally accepted. The language, the jokes, the very nature of threads like this... It's nothing new. Quite frankly, you're just going to have to deal with it or ignore it altogether.

And as for your daughter, look at the demographics of this forum of the active members. The age group 15-20 years old has more than any other while they are predominately male. This ties in with the above paragraph as well.

BUT, usually when I observe gay couples, and I see alot as my company is based out of San Francisco, one of the two people usually has qualities very similar to the opposite sex. In other words, one guy is very feminine, while the other is more masculine. With that said, if you prefer a gay guy who is more sensitive, emotional, soft, warm, and nurturing, why not just prefer a woman because other than the equipment, that is what you want. That leaves only the equipment and that is physical, therefore it is a choice and not something that I personally believe you are "born with". I feel it due to alacking of good male role models or too many strong female role models. Society has done you a disservice, and your preferences have been permanently mutated as a result.

Just my opinion, but since y'all brought this subject up, I guess I'll participate until the thread is closed.

[post="71828"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

First, there is no reason for this thread to be closed.

Second, you do not get it at all. It's not because of society... a lack of certain role models or such. You are born with it. It is a sexual attraction. It's a part of you that's almost instinctive and can't be influenced. You are either attracted, or you are not. I don't know how else to explain it. Well... I could add one more point, very bluntly. Men make my ... hard, women don't. It's always been like that except I've only recently been able to accept it. Do you understand at all?

[Drew Dowdell]

I gotta say this, and let me preface it with the statement that I have no problem with whatever preference you have. I just find it particularly offensive to first advertise ones preference, and second to make an issue of it. The vast majority of heterosexual people do not go around and blatantly force their heterosexuality upon non-heterosexuals, and second they don't make it an issue that they are hetero. Why do homosexuals feel it is soooooo darn important to force this upon people like me who don't really care what your preference is as long as it stays yours and yours alone, in other words discreet.

I don't feel that this is appropriate on a website such as this as it has absolutely no value to the majority of the forum. This doesn't seem like something that you would talk about "around the office, in front of your boss for that matter" unless you worked for the ACLU. Therefore it does not even meet the criteria of the lounge.

I would like to think that I could have trusted my daughter who is 15 to read and participate on this site, yet in the past I have seen language that was inappropriate as well as jokes that were of a very adult nature. Add to these experiences this current thread and poll, and it paints a sad picture on a forum that otherwise shines very brightly. This place is about cars and the car business, and if politics are off limits, I would imagine this subject should be as well as it is just as volatile.the

Let's clean it up a bit!

[post="71821"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

To respond:

Assuming you're married....
1. Do you wear a wear a ring?
2. Do you have a picture of your wife on your desk at work?
3. Do you have a picture of your kids on your desk at work?
4. Do you discuss what you and your wife are doing/where you're vacationing/etc with your co-workers?
5. Have you ever held your wife's hand in public?
6. Have you ever shown affection towards your wife, even a kiss or a hug, in public?
7. Did you have a huge celebration, invited tons of friends and family, and make an announcement in the paper when you and your wife got married?
8. Do you and your wife cohabitate a house?

If you ever do any of that in front of a gay person, you are exposing them to your heterosexuality. I'm sure they would appreciate it if you would stop as it probably is making them uncomfortable.
</tounge in cheek>

I do all of the above things with my partner. I get the distinct impression those actions would make you uncomfortable. If you see me and my partner at the NAIAS, cover your eyes since I refuse to be "discreet".... we'll probably be holding hands.

[MyerShift]

I really don't understand either why some feel they need to flaunt their orientation. However, as long as it does not directly affect/effect me, I don't care.

Hey, I don't understand something. Where the hell did the lisp thing come from anyway? Why is it always associated with a gay man? Why am I cursed to have it? (I blame having braces and other mouth work done, I think it messed up my speech patterns)

I really don't see the problem with this thread either. It's just a discussion. If people feel threatened by it, or if it gives them some moral dillema, here's an idea for them:
DON'T READ IT!!!. It's really not that hard.

It reminds me in a way of saying "Merry Christmas." I will say it, I do say it, and there's nothing that any of those censoring idiots out there can do about it. Just because I say "Merry Christmas" doesn't mean I am forcing the person I say it to to become a Christian. Just like if someone from another religion wished me their holiday sentiments, I would just gratefully accept it and move on. Geesh, what happened to America?
My rant about this sort of issue extends to obese (fat) people applying for handicapped plates/stickers. Umm, excuse me, but they shouldn't be parking closer, they should be parking farther away and walking to help reduce that girth.

And for a reminder, just because this is how I feel, it is not in any way, shape, or form forcing or causing anyone else to do so as well.

Thank you.

This has been a statement from the mind of Steven M. Myers Edited January 11, 2006 by MyerShift

[Flybrian]

As a general notice to all, we're going to relegate the blatently sexual conversation of any preference to the Lounge and cut down on the chit-chatty stuff (you know who you are).

It does get annoying to watch an innocuous thread about the '08 Malibu (or whatever) degrade into innuendo and winks.

Also, since this debate is getting a bit warm, let's keep in mind to be respectful with our responses to others as they've been.

[Drew Dowdell]

BUT, usually when I observe gay couples, and I see alot as my company is based out of San Francisco, one of the two people usually has qualities very similar to the opposite sex. In other words, one guy is very feminine, while the other is more masculine. With that said, if you prefer a gay guy who is more sensitive, emotional, soft, warm, and nurturing, why not just prefer a woman because other than the equipment, that is what you want. That leaves only the equipment and that is physical, therefore it is a choice and not something that I personally believe you are "born with". I feel it due to alacking of good male role models or too many strong female role models. Society has done you a disservice, and your preferences have been permanently mutated as a result.

Just my opinion, but since y'all brought this subject up, I guess I'll participate until the thread is closed.

[post="71828"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

This will be fun.

1. The flaw in your argument is that you base it only on your observations. Most likely the only reason you can tell a pair of guys is gay is because one of them is more feminine. It's the ones that you overlook that never work in your equation.

2. alternative sexualities have been observed in other species. Heck, I have a Sail Fin molly in my aquarium that humps everything male and female. So the science is there that shows it occuring naturally.

3. alternative sexualites have existed on every continent, in every age, in every society, EVER.

4. Both I and my partner have strong father figures. Both sets of parents are still together and happily married. We grew up in traditional, "beaver cleaver" households. Moms stayed home with the kids. Dads worked. I know many guys who are from similar situations.

which brings us to 5. Your observations seem quite limited.

[pow]

I really don't understand either why some feel they need to flaunt their orientation. However, as long as it does not directly affect/effect me, I don't care.

[post="71885"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

This isn't directed specifically toward you, MyerShift, but rather, I wanted to comment on this quote for all.

One thing to keep in mind is that your perception of what homosexuals are like is inaccurate, because for the majority of the time, you cannot differentiate between a heterosexual and a straight-acting homosexual. Thus your exposure to gays is limited to only the extremely vocal, open, and feminine males that do stand out.

There are millions of homosexuals in the world, but you allow only a minority of them (the "gay-acting" ones that catch your attention) to mold your opinion of homosexuality. Not that there's anything wrong with "acting gay" if it's natural, of course. Edited January 11, 2006 by empowah

[zoomtm]

some gay guys try to act gay...just because they are... :rolleyes:

[Croc]

Here's my opinion on the whole thing: I have no problem with gay people. I do not care who sleeps with whom. It is not my business. Now, as for the whole "gay-acting" thing, some people, for whatever reason, feel the need to "fit a stereotype." Personally, I do not understand this. I think it is very affected and annoying for someone who realizes he is gay to suddenly adopt a lisp. I think it is very affected to suddenly start saying "queeny" things like "oh NO you DON'T, girlfriend!" when such speech patterns were never used before. Now, I'm a fan of irony, but when someone suddenly decides to change their entire persona to fit a stereotype of their sexuality, I find it irritating and lose respect for them. Maybe that's just me, but whatever. FWIW--I find the "hyper-feminine" female to be somewhat annoying too. Seriously...just because you are a girl doesn't mean you have to act like a ditz. That said, it's pretty obvious when it's natural versus when it is affected so most of my annoyance is directed at the people being fake about it. Seriously...just be yourself, not who you think people think you should be :rolleyes:

[funkypunnk]

Second, you do not get it at all. It's not because of society... a lack of certain role models or such. You are born with it. It is a sexual attraction. It's a part of you that's almost instinctive and can't be influenced. You are either attracted, or you are not. I don't know how else to explain it. Well... I could add one more point, very bluntly. Men make my ... hard, women don't. It's always been like that except I've only recently been able to accept it. Do you understand at all?

[post="71881"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

This part I love. You actually say it is almost instinctive. I have to cut you some slack because at least you said almost. Behaviors are instinctive in all species for one reason, SURVIVAL! That includes personal survival as well as survival of the species. Homosexual behavior, by its definition, is counter-productive to species survival. It guarantees population decline in direct relation to its propagation. It therefore could never be instinctive. It is a choice. Again, being heterosexual, I speak from ignorance.

It is instinctive, however, to want to track down every female and have sex with them. We, as Men, are hardwired to do exactly that. We were not made to live with one mate for life, nor have monogamous relationships. We were designed to impregnate the opposite sex as much as possible. That is why we make sperm until we die, have testosterone pulsing through our bodies, and can have sex 4-5 times per day as long as we are healthy. Homosexuals are denying and even fighting their instincts. It is counter-productive to the human race from a biological standpoint. Now, I CHOOSE to have one mate for life and to remain monogamous, thus fighting my naturally instinctive behavior. I do this for personal benefit and view it as a good choice. You CHOOSE to love men, and also view it as a good choice. Should my son, who is now 18 months old, someday inform me that he is gay, I will tell him that he IS not gay, but instead has CHOSEN to be gay. IS is something you are, and that would again revert to the hard wiring that we call instinct. As I have already diffused that argument, it leaves us instead with choice. Rational thought, deduction, and reason is what seperates us from apes. It is that process that allows you to fight your instinct and BE gay.

Good Luck with it, I will be ignorant to the actual insight of homosexuality as long as you are ignorant to the actual process of becoming gay. Only God knows, and depending on your viewpoints in that arena, we have a whole new Pandora's Box to open.

[Croc]

So, you're saying that because of the procreation aspect of heterosexuality, you feel you know more about the causes of being gay than a homosexual? You are quite the presumptuous one, aren't ya? :lol:

[zoomtm]

:rolleyes:

[pow]

This part I love. You actually say it is almost instinctive. I have to cut you some slack because at least you said almost. Behaviors are instinctive in all species for one reason, SURVIVAL! That includes personal survival as well as survival of the species. Homosexual behavior, by its definition, is counter-productive to species survival. It guarantees population decline in direct relation to its propagation. It therefore could never be instinctive. It is a choice. Again, being heterosexual, I speak from ignorance.

[post="71940"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Your logic is flawed in that it does not consider abnormalities like gene mutations. Does a person chose to have cystic fibrosis?

[LosAngeles]

No offense meant, funkypunnk, but in the words of Deep Cover's John Hull, yoooooooou shouldn't have done that!! I'd just let it go, and let everyone of any sexual orientation do them....and I'll keep my stronger views and takes to myself, as that's not 3hat I'm here for. This building was full of neighbors when I moved in, so the tone's set. Edited January 11, 2006 by LosAngeles

[zoomtm]

I guess ill get a bowl of popcorn...and watch the show down :)

[Drew Dowdell]

This part I love. You actually say it is almost instinctive. I have to cut you some slack because at least you said almost. Behaviors are instinctive in all species for one reason, SURVIVAL! That includes personal survival as well as survival of the species. Homosexual behavior, by its definition, is counter-productive to species survival. It guarantees population decline in direct relation to its propagation. It therefore could never be instinctive. It is a choice. Again, being heterosexual, I speak from ignorance.

It is instinctive, however, to want to track down every female and have sex with them. We, as Men, are hardwired to do exactly that. We were not made to live with one mate for life, nor have monogamous relationships. We were designed to impregnate the opposite sex as much as possible. That is why we make sperm until we die, have testosterone pulsing through our bodies, and can have sex 4-5 times per day as long as we are healthy. Homosexuals are denying and even fighting their

instincts. It is counter-productive to the human race from a biological standpoint. Now, I CHOOSE to have one mate for life and to remain monogamous, thus fighting my naturally instinctive behavior. I do this for personal benefit and view it as a good choice. You CHOOSE to love men, and also  view it as a good choice. Should my son, who is now 18 months old, someday inform me that he is gay, I will tell him that he IS not gay, but instead has CHOSEN to be gay. IS is something you are, and that would again revert to the hard wiring that we call instinct. As I have already diffused that argument, it leaves us instead with choice. Rational thought, deduction, and reason is what seperates us from apes. It is that process that allows you to fight your instinct and BE gay.

Good Luck with it, I will be ignorant to the actual insight of homosexuality as long as you are ignorant to the actual process of becoming gay. Only God knows, and depending on your viewpoints in that arena, we have a whole new Pandora's Box to open.

[post="71940"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Another great one!! :)

SURVIVAL! That includes personal survival as well as survival of the species. Homosexual behavior, by its definition, is counter-productive to species survival.

Homosexuality in animals has been shown to increase as population density increases. As a population becomes oversaturated, homosexuality spikes. Homosexuality could be nature's population check valve.

It guarantees population decline in direct relation to its propagation. It therefore could never be instinctive.

Only if the number of off-spring produced by the heterosexuals is lower then the death rate in the entire population. Sweeden is having a population problem, not because of homosexuals, but because heterosexuals aren't having as many kids. Take the homosexuals out of the population and Sweeden will still have the same problem.

That includes personal survival as well as survival of the species. Homosexual behavior, by its definition, is counter-productive to species survival. It guarantees population decline in direct relation to its propagation. It therefore could never be instinctive. It is a choice.

This is what we call a logical Genetic Fallacy.

[TurboRush]

Good Luck with it, I will be ignorant to the actual insight of homosexuality as long as you are ignorant to the actual process of becoming gay. Only God knows, and depending on your viewpoints in that arena, we have a whole new Pandora's Box to open.

[post="71940"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

When you bring up religon, you are bringing in another grey area of the conversation. Religon and the existence of god is another debatable matter that has no concrete answer as of yet.

I'd stick to just the sexuality conflict for now and then start a religeous debate. Edited January 11, 2006 by TurboRush

[Drew Dowdell]

Here's my opinion on the whole thing: I have no problem with gay people.  I do not care who sleeps with whom.  It is not my business.

Now, as for the whole "gay-acting" thing, some people, for whatever reason, feel the need to "fit a stereotype."  Personally, I do not understand this.  I think it is very affected and annoying for someone who realizes he is gay to suddenly adopt a lisp.  I think it is very affected to suddenly start saying "queeny" things like "oh NO you DON'T, girlfriend!" when such speech patterns were never used before.  Now, I'm a fan of irony, but when someone suddenly decides to change their entire persona to fit a stereotype of their sexuality, I find it irritating and lose respect for them.  Maybe that's just me, but whatever.

FWIW--I find the "hyper-feminine" female to be somewhat annoying too.  Seriously...just because you are a girl doesn't mean you have to act like a ditz.  That said, it's pretty obvious when it's natural versus when it is affected so most of my annoyance is directed at the people being fake about it.  Seriously...just be yourself, not who you think people think you should be :rolleyes:

[post="71932"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I find that irritating too.

[funkypunnk]

To respond:

Assuming you're married....
1. Do you wear a wear a ring?
2. Do you have a picture of your wife on your desk at work?
3. Do you have a picture of your kids on your desk at work?
4. Do you discuss what you and your wife are doing/where you're vacationing/etc with your co-workers?
5. Have you ever held your wife's hand in public?
6. Have you ever shown affection towards your wife, even a kiss or a hug, in public?
7. Did you have a huge celebration, invited tons of friends and family, and make an announcement in the paper when you and your wife got married?
8. Do you and your wife cohabitate a house?

If you ever do any of that in front of a gay person, you are exposing them to your heterosexuality. I'm sure they would appreciate it if you would stop as it probably is making them uncomfortable.
</tounge in cheek>

I do all of the above things with my partner. I get the distinct impression those actions would make you uncomfortable. If you see me and my partner at the NAIAS, cover your eyes since I refuse to be "discreet".... we'll probably be holding hands.

[post="71884"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Yes to all of the above when appropriate. My wife and I do hold hands in public, as do my children and I. Do I make out with her in public, no. My office is my house and therefore I am surrounded with pictures of my family. As far as announcing the marriage publicly, of course. She is a hottie and she was marrying ME, I found that so unbelievable that I had to put it in the paper or no one else would believe it.

Did you catch the statement about my company being based in San Francisco? Have you been there? When at corporate, I am surrounded by gay people holding hands, kissing, etc. My two favorite co-workers are gay, one recently celebrated his lifelong commitment to his partner. I have no problem with that. Had I been able to attend, I would have known what to expect and would have accepted that. I would not have brought my son, as I feel that life model not appropriate for him, but I would have attended and wished them the best. Tony is a great guy and I hope he finds happiness for life eternal, with whatever choices he makes. If I was making out with my mistress (if I had one) on the trunk of a Solstice at the NAIAS I would hope that somebody would deem that inappropriate behavior and talk to me about it just as I would deem you and your partner doing the same as something I do not wish to see.

What I can never understand is why the minority always feels it is their personal burden to force open the minds of the majority. I like Pontiacs, yet I don't hold parades every year trying to get Ford lovers to buy a Pontiac.

IT'S ME, IT'S A GRAND PRIX, GET USED TO IT

Sometimes, it is just a CHOICE, and not a lifestyle to be thrust upon the unknowing public at large, no matter how ignored you feel. Just live your life, in happiness, without the advertisement. Wear your ring, but unless I ask you, don't approach me and tell me it is a homosexual commitment ring. Have a picture on your desk, but don't go out of your way to scream to the whole office that it is your husband. Talk about your vacation, but when I don't act stunned by your statement about "John and I", don't elaborate about being gay because you NEED to make sure I know that your travel partner is of the same sex! Hold his hand and kiss him if you would like, but don't be so dramatic about it. I don't swing my hands wildly while holding my wife's, we just walk along completely oblivious whether anyone is watching us. We would prefer they do not, yet whenever I see gay couples, they want to make sure everyone is watching and have very exaggerated movements and a rather interesting look. It's the advertising that I don't need. If only gay couples acted like heterosexual couples, things would be fine. BUT they don't, they have to rub it in our faces like it is something we HAVE to accept. No more parades, drama queens, or leather. How about just living your life and seeking happiness. That is hard enough!!!!! Edited January 11, 2006 by funkypunnk

[zoomtm]

by the way funnky punkky...are you from GMI? "The other forum"? -_-

[Croc]

If only gay couples acted like heterosexual couples, things would be fine. BUT they don't, they have to rub it in our faces like it is something we HAVE to accept. No more parades, drama queens, or leather. How about just living your life and seeking happiness. That is hard enough!!!!!

[post="71958"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

You are totally contradicting yourself from the last page. You DO have to accept the existence of homosexuality. It's there!

Look, I used to be as homophobic as you, that is until several of my close friends "came out" and blindsided me by telling me I was the last of our group to know because they were afraid of how I would react. Now, obviously you were never good friends with someone BEFORE you knew they were gay. In my opinion? You're missing out...

[zoomtm]

by the way funnky punkky...are you from GMI? "The other forum"? -_-

[post="71960"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

yup he is...explains it all

[Flybrian]

I like Pontiacs, yet I don't hold parades every year trying to get Ford lovers to buy a Pontiac.

IT'S ME, IT'S A GRAND PRIX, GET USED TO IT

[post="71958"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

A quick segue to recognize this as an early-runner for the Best Quote of 2006. :lol:

[funkypunnk]

So, you're saying that because of the procreation aspect of heterosexuality, you feel you know more about the causes of being gay than a homosexual?  You are quite the presumptuous one, aren't ya? :lol:

[post="71941"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I am saying that by design or evolution, whichever you believe in, our species has sex to reproduce. Just look at the design of the organs, it is clear. Therefore, it can easily be deduced, or even observed through behavioral observation, that for species preservation the instinctive behavior is to procreate. That can only be done when a female is involved in one way or another. Two males currently cannot procreate. Had humans been homosexual, we wouldn't be here right now. It can be deduced further that since natural selection would have eliminated our race had we been homosexual, that nature's intent was for heterosexual mating, therefore ensuring procreation. Again, this reinforces that the instinctive behavior is heterosexual mating. If this makes me presumptious, then I guess I am but it is a pretty cut and dry concept.

[funkypunnk]

Your logic is flawed in that it does not consider abnormalities like gene mutations. Does a person chose to have cystic fibrosis?

[post="71945"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

So are you saying that being gay is an abnormality?
Or is it a genetic mutation?

Either implies that it is a flaw, needing to be fixed. We spend millions each year seeking out the causes of things like cystic fibrosis so that we can prevent them or cure them.

Are you saying we need to prevent homosexuality or cure it??????

Your words, not mine!!!!!!!!!!!

[Drew Dowdell]

[quote name='funkypunnk' date='Jan 10 2006, 11:35 PM']No more parades, drama queens, or leather. How about just living your life and seeking happiness. That is hard enough!!!!!

[post="71958"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

[/quote]

[quote]Yes to all of the above when appropriate. My wife and I do hold hands in public, as do my children and I. Do I make out with her in public, no. My office is my house and therefore I am surrounded with pictures of my family. As far as announcing the marriage publicly, of course. She is a hottie and she was marrying ME, I found that so unbelievable that I had to put it in the paper or no one else would believe it.[/quote]

I didn't say make out. I said my partner and I would likely be holding hands at NAIAS.

[quote]I would not have brought my son, as I feel that life model not appropriate for him,[/quote] v. [quote]I have no problem with that.[/quote]

[quote]I would not have brought my son, as I feel that life model not appropriate for him,[/quote] v. [quote]I have no problem with that.[/quote]

[quote]What I can never understand is why the minority always feels it is their personal burden to force open the minds of the majority. I like Pontiacs, yet I don't hold parades every year trying to get Ford lovers to buy a Pontiac.[/quote]

Address what I am saying, not what you may have seen on the 6pm news in San Fran. The majority of gay people are not like what you see on T.V. Hell, neither my partner and I attend any pride parades. Few of our friends do. What gay people want is the freedom to do the things in my above list without persecution.

To say you support your co-worker yet wouldn't allow your son to see it reeks of hypocrisy. How about being the good role model and show your son how to be caring and accepting of other people's relationships regardless of your personal feelings?

[quote]whenever I see gay couples[/quote] I think you see them a lot more often then you think. The ones you describe just happen to be the only ones you notice.

[quote]No more parades, drama queens, or leather. How about just living your life and seeking happiness.[/quote]

Fine... in return we ask: No more hate, no more persecution, no more "constitutional amendments", no more unequal treatment.

Deal?

[Chris_Doane]

BUT, usually when I observe gay couples, and I see alot as my company is based out of San Francisco, one of the two people usually has qualities very similar to the opposite sex. In other words, one guy is very feminine, while the other is more masculine. With that said, if you prefer a gay guy who is more sensitive, emotional, soft, warm, and nurturing, why not just prefer a woman because other than the equipment, that is what you want. That leaves only the equipment and that is physical, therefore it is a choice and not something that I personally believe you are "born with". I feel it due to alacking of good male role models or too many strong female role models. Society has done you a disservice, and your preferences have been permanently mutated as a result.

Just my opinion, but since y'all brought this subject up, I guess I'll participate until the thread is closed.

[post="71828"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Hmm...you're not too bright are ya? :) Edited January 11, 2006 by CD/BP

[TurboRush]

Sometimes, it is just a CHOICE, and not a lifestyle to be thrust upon the unknowing public at large, no matter how ignored you feel. Just live your life, in happiness, without the advertisement. Wear your ring, but unless I ask you, don't approach me and tell me it is a homosexual commitment ring. Have a picture on your desk, but don't go out of your way to scream to the whole office that it is your husband. Talk about your vacation, but when I don't act stunned by your statement about "John and I", don't elaborate about being gay because you NEED to make sure I know that your travel partner is of the same sex! Hold his hand and kiss him if you would like, but don't be so dramatic about it. I don't swing my hands wildly while holding my wife's, we just walk along completely oblivious whether anyone is watching us. We would prefer they do not, yet whenever I see gay couples, they want to make sure everyone is watching and have very exaggerated movements and a rather interesting look. It's the advertising that I don't need. If only gay couples acted like heterosexual couples, things would be fine. BUT they don't, they have to rub it in our faces like it is something we HAVE to accept. No more parades, drama queens, or leather. How about just living your life and seeking happiness. That is hard enough!!!!!

[post="71958"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

The general Straight public is what causes this to happen or has heavily in the past due to non-acceptance of the matter.

You know, the reasoning behind this is in my oppinion is that the people who flaunt their gayness is like you posting that you have now maried the woman of your dreams in the paper.
You have to remember that homosexuals have this bottled up inside and are uneasy about openly talking about their homosexuality when they are young. Therefore, we have, in some situations, years of this secret bottled up inside. Could you immagine how good it feels to let out you secret to the people around you (family and friends)???


And if, let's say I was realy popular in my office and I am bringing a picture of my partner to put on my desk. I know that most of my colleagues and friends that come into my office will see and most likely ask about the picture.

Instead of having to tell everyone individualy that comes through and asks, it is much less of a burden to just come out and say it. Otherwise it can be like prolonging the pain. (kind of like when you pull off a band-aid. It hurts less if you just rip it of quickly... you know) THIS IS WHY SOME WILL FLAUNT THEIR GAY'NESS.

To a Gay person;

-comming out is a good thing
-being in a trusted relationship is a good thing
-being engaged with a partner is a good thing

People usualy like to advertise or flaunt good news... right? Edited January 11, 2006 by TurboRush

[Drew Dowdell]

I am saying that by design or evolution, whichever you believe in, our species has sex to reproduce. Just look at the design of the organs, it is clear. Therefore, it can easily be deduced, or even observed through behavioral observation, that for species preservation the instinctive behavior is to procreate. That can only be done when a female is involved in one way or another. Two males currently cannot procreate. Had humans been homosexual, we wouldn't be here right now. It can be deduced further that since natural selection would have eliminated our race had we been homosexual, that nature's intent was for heterosexual mating, therefore ensuring procreation. Again, this reinforces that the instinctive behavior is heterosexual mating. If this makes me presumptious, then I guess I am but it is a pretty cut and dry concept.

[post="71972"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

This is what we call slippery slope

You have to make the assumption that the ENTIRE HUMAN RACE would have to become homosexual to support your claim.

Somehow I don't think that will happen. You apparently do not have an understanding of the recessive gene in gentics.

Both of my parents have brown hair and brown eyes. I have blond hair and blue eyes.

Both of my parents are heterosexual. I am homosexual.

[funkypunnk]

yup he is...explains it all

[post="71967"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I don't get it, is GMI the straight forum and C&G the alternative lifestyle forum?

I am also on a chevy avalanche forum, does that mean something?

Other forums:
7 different audiophile and high end home theatre forums
3 Linux forums
2 RV forums
2 Pontiac forums
2 MythTV forums
2 Integration forums
4 engineering forums
2 medical instrument forums
1 BOOP (Lung Disease) forum
2 Electronics forums

What does it all mean???????????????????????