My Solstice Is Wrecked

[regfootball]

i've ditched a couple rwd cars (when i was in HS) because of fishtailing. And both times with bad weather, yet with EXTREME care I might have been able to avoid it.

Then I had my original SHO w/ FWD and drove the PISS out of it and never never encountered any problems with traction and control. Well, one time I hydroplaned bad on fresh rain but I literally had no tread left to drive on when that occured. Like 2/32" or something.

Edited September 11, 2006 by regfootball

[Flybrian]

Reg is a man of danger and fortitude.

[wpbharry]

For anyone curious, here are the pics he posted on another forum and here is his description of the accident, far more detailed than what we got.

192086[/snapback]

Yup, got cut off on the expressway last night. Lost control, pinballed from guard rail to guard rail...the Solstice is hit.

Oh me, oh my. These stories don't jive. First you were cut off an pinballing between guard rails, now you were speeding around a corning shifting into 3rd. Soooomebody is a chronic liar.

Were you trying to catch up to an MGD truck?

Edited September 11, 2006 by wpbharry

[Satty]

Let's get dumb, drink some rum. Make my teeth and gums feel real numb.

We'll be thinking 'bout surviving while we're drinking and we're driving.

Hope I don't wreck when my vision gets blurry.

?

My thirst is quenched but my cravin won't extinguish

I need some forty ounce mother f@#king Old English

Put the top in my mouth put the bottom to the ceilin

Drink it diggy diggy down till I get that crazy feelin

[Cory Wolfe]

I smell fish... Weird...

[ocnblu]

I still feel more than confident with my RWD pickup truck, thanks. Driving isn't just "plug-n-play", you have to be alert and know what your limitations are... F or RWD.

[Cory Wolfe]

What Ocn said... Some kids were racing on the road to BV a week ago. One in an Olds Alero, one in a Mitsu Eclipse. The roads were dry. The Alero went around a slight left turn, lost control, hit an oncoming Jeep GC, causing it to flip, while the Eclipse ran into it. My mom was following the Jeep. I got to hear about it from her, see the pic of it in the paper, and see both the Alero and the Eclipse, since they were sitting at the local DCX dealer... The Alero had very moderate damaged, as did the Eclipse, while the Jeep was a total loss.

[Robert Hall]

i've ditched a couple rwd cars (when i was in HS) because of fishtailing.  And both times with bad weather, yet with EXTREME care I might have been able to avoid it.

Then I had my original SHO w/ FWD and drove the PISS out of it and never never encountered any problems with traction and control.  Well, one time I hydroplaned bad on fresh rain but I literally had no tread left to drive on when that occured.  Like 2/32" or something.

192107[/snapback]

About 15 years ago, when my '87 Mustang GT still had its original Goodyear Eagles, I spun it out (did 180, missed the guardrail) in heavy rain while accelerating up a curved entrance ramp onto the PA turnpike...scary, scary.. (lucky no one was behind me) and a couple times in the late '90s I got caught out in it in an unexpected snowfall (going from a clear, sunny evening at 5280 feet to a sudden snowfall at 8500 feet over a pass)..very scary also--had to make very careful throttle and steering inputs..another time, I caught some black ice in a shaded corner on a twisty switchback road at about 9k ft elevation on a sunny summer day...spun around 180 and came within a foot of a guardrail above a 500ft drop-off.. (about filled my pants that day).

My old 4cyl Mustang LX I had in college was pretty drivable in foul weather with snow tires on all four corners and weights in the trunk..it didn't have enough power to get into trouble..

Edited September 11, 2006 by moltar

[Drew Dowdell]

The clover leaf in question...

[razoredge]

Oh yea, probably, with just a little of this and a little of that, fix her up in a jiffy.

[Sixty8panther]

that sort of stuff is why I shy away from having a RWD car.  Too much work required to keep it pointed straight. 

192095[/snapback]

Let's not fu*king go 'there'.

I don't have the time or energy for another 27 page thread.

Remember that FWD Acura RSX that head butted a telephone

pole right outside my house last winter? Those pics say it all.

[Drew Dowdell]

Remember that FWD Acura RSX that head butted a telephone

pole right outside my house last winter? Those pics say it all.

192308[/snapback]

that people need to be extra careful in the snow because all cars have All-Wheel brakes?

[Turbojett]

wow. the tension and hostility's so thick you can cut it with a knife.

[Guest YellowJacket894]

wow. the tension and hostility's so thick you can cut it with a knife.

[Whistles.]

[capriceman]

Im with 68.

Doesnt matter what kinda of car you have. You always need to be carful. And sometimes brakes can be worse then just letting the gas up and slighlty counter steering to gain traction back in rwd cars. Fwd if they get loose theres really no measure you can do to assist in getting traction back. let go of the wheel and cover your eyes and wait for it to regain traction. I have never been able to recover from a spin in a fwd car. But put my truck in 2 high and I can make a ice storm feel like a summer day. no fish tailing unless i want it too.

Its all about control and technique not about what wheel drive the car is.

But this thing we Josh. Why do you guys care so much. If you dislike him just Ignore him. dont follow him on the internet. Let it go!

[Cory Wolfe]

Im with 68.

Doesnt matter what kinda of car you have. You always need to be carful. And sometimes brakes can be worse then just letting the gas up and slighlty counter steering to gain traction back in rwd cars. Fwd if they get loose theres really no measure you can do to assist in getting traction back. let go of the wheel and cover your eyes and wait for it to regain traction. I have never been able to recover from a spin in a fwd car. But put my truck in 2 high and I can make a ice storm feel like a summer day. no fish tailing unless i want it too.

Its all about control and technique not about what wheel drive the car is.

Uh... you do the same to regain control with a FWD car. But yes, I agree. Giving a little gas can even help. And brakes are definitely can make things worse.

[Flybrian]

Doesnt matter what kinda of car you have. You always need to be carful.

...

Its all about control and technique not about what wheel drive the car is.

192379[/snapback]

Agreed. Its all about control

Few have it. Most don't.

[FAPTurbo]

Agreed. Its all about control

Few have it. Most don't.

192389[/snapback]

ownt...

[Turbojett]

wow. the tension and hostility's so thick you can cut it with a knife.

[Whistles.]

192354[/snapback]

DON'T START WITH ME!!!!

[NOS2006]

Agreed. Its all about control

Few have it. Most don't.

192389[/snapback]

Damn...

Edited September 12, 2006 by NOS2006

[Satty]

Agreed. Its all about control

Few have it. Most don't.

192389[/snapback]

uber-pwnd

[regfootball]

Let's not fu*king go 'there'.

I don't have the time or energy for another 27 page thread.

Remember that FWD Acura RSX that head butted a telephone

pole right outside my house last winter? Those pics say it all.

192308[/snapback]

yeah, but that's likely a typical dumbass ricer who didn't even learn how to be successful peeing in a toilet, much less coordinating their limbs and hands to make a car go.

[regfootball]

Agreed. Its all about control

Few have it. Most don't.

192389[/snapback]

and its worse on a 12 of bud

[Sixty8panther]

My life as of late has been such that I do not need another

argument. I have driven NOTHING but RWD cars in the

past 6 winters and I never had an accident because of

RWD. I did almost stuff the STS (FWD) into a snowbank &

guardrail because of blizzard conditions on a sketchy back

woods road in the middle fo a bad snow storm... the car

responded beautifuly and saved the day, same as I'm sure

the 2009 Camaro will when I drive that year round. For

what it's worth I was goign about 20mph when the

stablilitrack activated and at 30mph I would have not had a

chance even with studded tires. Speed is a HUGE factor.

Oldsmoboi said it all....

[razoredge]

flatlanders

[Camino LS6]

I'm just now realizing what a tragedy it is that so many people have never learned to drive a RWD car. A whole generation of inexperience coming home to roost.

Pay attention to what you are doing and you will be fine FWD or RWD. Get to know the car and it's parameters before you need to make any emergency moves behind the wheel. If you want to understand your RWD car, disable the traction control and make the car spin a few times, then you will have a better feel for the dynamics involved. Spinning the tail of a RWD car can be part of controlling it, it will have a predictable response to a given input. When an FWD car slides, your options are more limited as it will tend to plow and all input involves the front wheels while the rears are simply along for the ride. With RWD, a skid or spin can be corrected by proper use of steering, brakes, and accelerator in the right combination and with the right timing. This inherent advantage is why RWD dominates motorsports, but you have to learn how it works first. Experiment and find the limits of the car in safe conditions,practice each input and note its effect on the car, then do it again and again. Eventually, the correct input will become second nature and you will truly begin to understand why RWD is so beloved by enthusiasts and racers. FWD may be "plug and play" and "idiot proof" but it cannot give the same measure of control and feedback that RWD can. It's like comparing a Chevette to a Corvette, both can be docile and competent and both can kill you. However, only the Corvette offers control at the limits and the competence of capability at all speeds. But you have to know how.

[Drew Dowdell]

It's like comparing a Chevette to a Corvette, both can be docile and competent and both can kill you. However, only the Corvette offers control at the limits and the competence of capability at all speeds. But you have to know how.

192476[/snapback]

indeed.

I'm curious though, which would end up fairing better in a snowy emergency, a CTS with Stabilitrack or a TL Type-S with stability control. Much closer, and more likely, comparison.

Isn't the Chevette also RWD?

[Camino LS6]

One of the best exercises for learning to really control your car I've found is to not use your brakes if you can avoid it. This exercise is limited with an automatic but works like a charm in a manual FWD or RWD. It forces you to anticipate a bit more and results in a smoother drive with less stress. I have made it a discipline of mine to drive this way( I do catch myself forgetting sometimes). I also will try to find a speed at which I can keep moving in a traffic backup - great for discipline as well. You will find yourself not tailgating and less surprised by someone else stopping suddenly in front of you.

[the_yellow_dart]

One of the best exercises for learning to really control your car I've found is to not use your brakes if you can avoid it. This exercise is limited with an automatic but works like a charm in a manual FWD or RWD. It forces you to anticipate a bit more and results in a smoother drive with less stress. I have made it a discipline of mine to drive this way( I do catch myself forgetting sometimes). I also will try to find a speed at which I can keep moving in a traffic backup - great for  discipline as well. You will find yourself not tailgating and less surprised by someone else stopping suddenly in front of you.

192482[/snapback]

I do this too. It worries me a little bit though - sometimes I tap the brakes when I do serious downshifting, just to tell the person behind me who may not understand manuals that I'm slowing down.

[Drew Dowdell]

I use the auto-manual shift feature in the CTS often.

[Camino LS6]

I do this too. It worries me a little bit though - sometimes I tap the brakes when I do serious downshifting, just to tell the person behind me who may not understand manuals that I'm slowing down.

192485[/snapback]

Yes, that can be a problem and I do the same as you. Too many drivers are "brake pedal addicts" who stab the brakes automatically when presented with any unforeseen change in traffic.

[Camino LS6]

BTW: snow and ice are whole categories of driving unto themselves regardless of the drive wheels.

[Satty]

For stupid people, RWD is impossible to control in any situation thats not a straight, dry, level road. If you know how to drive, drive wheels aren't a factor. Unfortubately, most people are stupid and dont know how to drive, its why they ride their brakes downhill hoping to keep their car right at 60mph. They also ont teach their kids how to drive which is why in the middle of winter their are Camaros, Mustangs and RWD pickups piloted by 16-17 year olds off in the ditches.

Edit: A BAC of .14 makes matters worse.....

Edited September 12, 2006 by Satty

[z28luvr01]

Having owned a 4x4 S10 Blazer through five Long Island winters, I can attest that once you learn how RWD behaves in inclement weather, you do get more granualr control of the vehcile. I learned how to steer the rear of the truck the way I wanted it to go by forcing a loss of traction with the gas/brake. In fact, I only used the 4WD once to get it off our front lawn in 12+ inches of snow, and once after a forced dump into a snowbank.

I have a question for you manual tranny drivers. I'm about to show my naivete on the subject, but keep in mind that I've only driven a stick exactly twice. You seem like you're hinting that you prefer engine braking as the primary means of slowing the car down as opposed to using the pedal. Won't that wear out the clutch prematurely, or are they designed to be used that way. Are you referring to lower speed driving? I'm confused, except for the fact that if I had to replace something prematurely, I know I'd rather replace brake pads/shoes than a clutch.

I think I better acquire myself a cheap (<$1000) manual truck so I can gets some practice in before the Corvette is done.

[Drew Dowdell]

if he knows how .

192490[/snapback]

well, now we get to the crux of the problem......

Still, in a modern day situation, two very similar sized sedans, similar power, both with stability control, one FWD, one RWD. In the same hands, which would do better?

If my mother was driving, probably the TL. If I were driving, it'd probably be a wash.

That is the question most people ask in their heads when shopping for a car. There aren't too many Chevette/Corvette crossshoppers anymore.

[Camino LS6]

Having owned a 4x4 S10 Blazer through five Long Island winters, I can attest that once you learn how RWD behaves in inclement weather, you do get more granualr control of the vehcile. I learned how to steer the rear of the truck the way I wanted it to go by forcing a loss of traction with the gas/brake. In fact, I only used the 4WD once to get it off our front lawn in 12+ inches of snow, and once after a forced dump into a snowbank.

I have a question for you manual tranny drivers. I'm about to show my naivete on the subject, but keep in mind that I've only driven a stick exactly twice. You seem like you're hinting that you prefer engine braking as the primary means of slowing the car down as opposed to using the pedal. Won't that wear out the clutch prematurely, or are they designed to be used that way. Are you referring to lower speed driving? I'm confused, except for the fact that if I had to replace something prematurely, I know I'd rather replace brake pads/shoes than a clutch.

I think I better acquire myself a cheap (<$1000) manual truck so I can gets some practice in before the Corvette is done.

192502[/snapback]

Downshifting for the purpose of engine braking is harmless. Downshifting for power to teach that pesky ricer a lesson can be another story.

Good idea on the practice vehicle.

[Camino LS6]

Side note: our server is acting goofy,Z.

Posted my last 3 times

Internal server error

Then I goofed and deleted the wrong post

[Camino LS6]

I think all drivers should have some experience with FWD, RWD, manual, and automatic.

[Satty]

Driver's Ed should be mandatory and they should have to drive Chevette's with sticks in the middle of winter.

[Camino LS6]

Driver's Ed should be mandatory and they should have to drive Chevette's with sticks in the middle of winter.

192519[/snapback]

Although I'd rather have to drive a manual Chevette in winter than an auto.

[Camino LS6]

Old automatic cars have an advantage once stuck in snow: it is so much easier to rock an old car to get it unstuck thanks to new cars forcing you to apply the brake before shifting into reverse. I really wish the safety nazis would back-off.

[Satty]

I can't do anything until the police report is filed. The cop at the scene told me to talk to my friend who is a Roseville cop to file the accident claim which I have to do.

181115[/snapback]

Also to top it all off, no police report was made as the police decided it was not that important to show up for...I called and waited literally an hour before my own tow truck driver arrived on the scene.

[FAPTurbo]

192524[/snapback]

[Mr.Krinkle]

Driver's Ed should be mandatory and they should have to drive Chevette's with sticks in the middle of winter.

192519[/snapback]

yup, and in parking lots too.

[capriceman]

I will be truthful. In the winter with my Truck and some 250 pounds of quick crete in the back and the lever in 4WD. Im the asshole that makes those tire marks threw your lawn. i love getting in some drifts and having all for wheels spinning tractionless...

[Guest YellowJacket894]

I think all drivers should have some experience with FWD, RWD, manual, and automatic.

192518[/snapback]

That's my entire driveway in a nutshell.

1999 Dakota: Rear-Drive, Automatic

1998 S-10: Rear-Drive, Manual

2004 Impala: Front-Drive, Automatic

And you know I've driven each one and two were/are driven on a daily basis.

I don't think any of my (here I go sounding like a nerd) peers has the experience I do.

[Guest YellowJacket894]

DON'T START WITH ME!!!!    

Get mellow, TJ.

[razoredge]

Ive driven both and FWD rules on snow days around these parts. Although that is only probably less than 5% of working days.

See FWD takes a bit of skill to drive too, those that have it will not drive straight into a snow bank, powerpole or tree because they let off the gas, its really hard too but all one needs to remember is "let off the gas".............

For slippery corners at speed one needs to have the ability to let the engine go neutral with tires. That means no acceleration, no deceleration, neutural. Very simple, so simple our Great White North Sisteren seem to have a handle on it..........

They stop somewhat better because of a bit more front weight, with snows FWD becomes a beast, both braking and climbing.

For climbing there simply is no comparision regardless of tires.

Then an advanced skilled FW driver with a proper hand brake, something that has mostly excaped American manufacturers, can do things usually seen only "in the movies". I was glad to see the G6 actually has a hand brake, imagine that, and it will never see snow........

So dont even get me f@#king going..........................

Anyhow about Josh's accident. 50 mph in a cloverleaf is not enough with anything less than a supercar to over accelerate and kick the back out on dry roads, or were they wet ? Even so on wet roads an Ecotec, RWD or FWD would not have the power to cause a wreck. Something else went wrong or we dont have the full equation. Its very sad that this happened, but everyone does stupid stuff. I have just been one to have never been caught off gaurd by Mr Dumb Luck and he sure had more than a few occasions to teach me a lesson. The crap we did when we were young, driving like idiots, in all conditions, both environ mental and mental. Times were different, there was less traffic, fewer houses, poorer tires, steering box's, and suspension set ups............but DAMN did we have F U N !

Good Luck with your car Josh !

Edited September 13, 2006 by razoredge

[Sixty8panther]

flatlanders

192452[/snapback]

You've posted this response to me like 2o times now.

I don't live in the prarie states or in Florida. Come

to Massachusetts someday, esp. towns like Lowell,

Worcester & Haverhill and you tell me how "flat" it is.

The roads I drive are only flat if compared to the freekin' Alps.

[regfootball]

               

192524[/snapback]