The world catches up to Honda

[siegen]

You guys are really gonna like this one. Is Fortune drinking the cool-aid too? :AH-HA_wink:

Full Article

For the past decade, Honda has been out of step with most of its North American competitors - sometimes defiantly so.

While other automakers rushed to beef up their pickup trucks and SUVs with stronger frames and bigger motors, Honda (Charts) stood to one side, refusing to develop either a V-8 engine or a traditional body-on-frame light truck. Likewise, when other manufacturers engaged in a horsepower race to lure consumers and take advantage of cheap gasoline, Honda held back. Staying true to its philosophy of "maximum man, minimum machine" it concentrated on smaller, more efficient four- and six-cylinder engines.

Honda's decision to stick with what it believes in is now paying off big time. Look at what happened in July. For its first quarter, Honda reported sales up 15 percent and operating profit up 19 percent. The Honda Accord and Civic ranked as the second and fourth best selling passenger cars in America. In a U.S. market where overall sales fell 17.4 percent, Honda brand vehicles rose 6 percent.

To cap off a remarkable performance, Honda passed Chrysler Group in sales for the first time in history, coming in fourth behind General Motors (Charts), Toyota (Charts), and Ford (Charts).

Uniquely among the world's automakers, Honda thinks of itself as an engine company first, and still maintains a sizeable business in motorcycles, lawn mowers and marine motors.

Honda's percentage of light truck sales is the smallest in the industry at 42.7 percent (compared with Chrysler and Ford at around 66 percent). - a good place to be with truck sales falling. And it has the highest corporate average fuel economy and, not coincidentally, the highest median household income for buyers - $87,907. By comparison, GM checks in at $75,888.

[Drew Dowdell]

I'm not quite sure what the point of the article is other than perhaps to polish Honda's knob. The article makes it out like Honda's real competiors are only the Americans while Toyota can be ignored.

The article is neither informative nor does it reach any sort of conclusion.

Then there are the unrelated statistical gems... like this one:

And it has the highest corporate average fuel economy and, not coincidentally, the highest median household income for buyers - $87,907. By comparison, GM checks in at $75,888.

While both are interesting nuggets, it is unclear <and unexplained> how the two are related... though the article implies that they are.

and the making of excuses:

Ironically, subsequent Honda hybrids failed to make much headway either because they looked too much like conventional cars or weren't engineered to provide maximum fuel economy.

and the spin:

While other automakers rushed to beef up their pickup trucks and SUVs with stronger frames and bigger motors, Honda (Charts) stood to one side, refusing to develop either a V-8 engine or a traditional body-on-frame light truck. Likewise, when other manufacturers engaged in a horsepower race to lure consumers and take advantage of cheap gasoline, Honda held back. Staying true to its philosophy of "maximum man, minimum machine" it concentrated on smaller, more efficient four- and six-cylinder engines.

yeah, where's the RSX again? How are those Ridgelines selling? I hear the RL is about to overtake the BMW 5-series in sales....... or not.

Don't get me wrong, honda has some great product. I take more issue with their styling than anything else.

The article did get one thing dead on:

Uniquely among the world's automakers, Honda thinks of itself as an engine company first, and still maintains a sizeable business in motorcycles, lawn mowers and marine motors.

and that, Honda does, very very very well.

Edited August 14, 2006 by Oldsmoboi

[siegen]

Yeh I didn't think the article brought up anything really new. It just kind of summed up most of the Honda news lately. It put a very good light on Honda, which I why I wanted to see your guy's comments.I see where they dance around Honda's failures. Although I wouldn't call their Hybrids a failure by any means, they certainly didn't enter the market as well as Toyota did.

How are those Ridgelines selling?

Very well. Up 15% from last year, 4,345 for July.

yeah, where's the RSX again?

Gone. It's too small for Acura and Honda already has the Civic Si. Plenty of rumors about a TSX-sized coupe.

I hear the RL is about to overtake the BMW 5-series in sales

Well considering the 5-series has 7 different trim levels (inlcluding the M5) and the RL only has one, the RL's 1,000-1,500 per month sales aren't bad when compared to the 5,000 +/- 5-series sales. I don't think Honda really concerns themselves with overtaking BMW. That's what Toyota is trying to do with Lexus.I don't see why everyone rags on Acura. They aren't the biggest. But if anybody actually compared their sales to others and take into account that they only have 5 models, they'd see that they are actually doing quite good.

[Sixty8panther]

So let's recap. Americans are getting "soft" & stupid therefore this new generation of pu$$ys is buying Hondas like they're God'sgift to mankind. "I need a truck but I don't want to have a frame."Makes me sad to hear how stupid this country is getting. I bet most people who buy the Ridgeline should really buy the car who's platform it's loosely based on: a freekin FWD 4-banger Accord.

[Drew Dowdell]

oh, and one other comment.How is the world catching up to Honda?It's not like everyone else doesn't make 4 cylinders or 6 cylinders.For every car that Honda makes, there is an American car in that class that has an engine with the same number of cylinders.Civic: Cobalt, Neon/Caliber, Focus = 4Accord: Aura, Malibu, G6, Sebring, Stratus, Fusion = 4 or 6... and notibly, the Aura Hybrid 4 while accord gets a hybrid 6.TSX: 9-3 = 4TL: CTS, Zephyr, 300 V6RL: STS, 300 = V6 AWDElement: HHR, PT Cruiser = 4 CR-V: Vue, Escape = 4 ..... both americans have hybrids available while the CR-V does not.so yeah... who is catching up to who?

[Intrepidation]

oh, and one other comment.

How is the world catching up to Honda?

It's not like everyone else doesn't make 4 cylinders or 6 cylinders.

For every car that Honda makes, there is an American car in that class that has an engine with the same number of cylinders.

Civic: Cobalt, Neon/Caliber, Focus = 4

Accord: Aura, Malibu, G6, Sebring, Stratus, Fusion = 4 or 6... and notibly, the Aura Hybrid 4 while accord gets a hybrid 6.

TSX: 9-3 = 4

TL: CTS, Zephyr, 300 V6

RL: STS, 300 = V6 AWD

Element: HHR, PT Cruiser = 4

CR-V: Vue, Escape = 4 ..... both americans have hybrids available while the CR-V does not.

so yeah... who is catching up to who?

180234[/snapback]

Thanks for saying what I was thinking. It's a pretty arrgoant title. Some interesting i fnot new info. I drove an old Honda motorcycle last month, it was a blast.

[siegen]

How is the world catching up to Honda?

The title of the article is a bit much. But I think they were mainly referring to the fact that Honda has stayed out of the V8 market and large SUV/truck market, while everyone else hasn't.

Honda has been an environmental company always. A lot of other makes have recently jumped on the bandwagon, and have started pumping out Hybrids in an attempt to improve their green image, while their CAFE ratings are still quite low.

You guys jump on Toyota for bragging about its fuel efficient Prius while it churns out big V8 trucks. But isn't what Ford and GM doing with their little hybrid SUV's the same? Plus, does the CR-V really need a hybrid variant? It gets 23/29 as it is (with a 5sp Auto, which is standard, not a Manual).

[Flybrian]

One thing I will readily give to Honda is - besides abborant models like the Ridgeline, Pilot, and Passport (which wasn't even theirs) - their fuel economy and emissions standards are largely impeccable. Toyota plays both sides and does it often and in a ludicrous manner; Honda stays on focus - for Honda, to success, for Acura, not so much.

[FAPTurbo]

Their engines are excellent. My Dad's powerwasher is totally awesome!

[Dsuupr]

Let's see

ridgeline - 16/21 mpg

Avalanche - 15/20 mpg

Colorado - 16/22 mpg

Love that honda mileage. Another media twist on gas hogs.

[siegen]

Let's see

ridgeline - 16/21 mpg

Avalanche - 15/20 mpg

Colorado - 16/22 mpg

Love that honda mileage.  Another media twist on gas hogs.

180360[/snapback]

There's a big difference between full-time AWD and the 4wd on those vehicles. If the Ridgeline was equipped with a similar system, it would probably net another 1-2 in both city and hwy on the EPA tests.

It matches the Colorado, which is good considering the Colorado weighs about 400 lbs less and is smaller. Why doesn't the Colorado get better mileage? Compare GM's own 4.3L v6's and 3.7L 5cyl in their trucks/suvs and they tend to only net another 1-2 mpg compared to the V8's.

Let's compare the CR-V while we're at it.

CR-V

2.4L FWD 5sp Auto 3,318lbs

23/29

Escape

2.3L FWD 4sp Auto 3,255lbs

23/26

Vue

2.2L FWD 4sp Auto 3,345lbs

22/27

[Sixty8panther]

It matches the Colorado, which is good considering the Colorado weighs about 400 lbs less and is smaller. Why doesn't the Colorado get better mileage?

180378[/snapback]

So the Colorado with a full frame and usable bed weighs much less

than that POS balsa-wood floorpan unibody rubbermaid container

on wheels? Nice going Honda.

[regfootball]

does Honda have a Z06? A CTSv? An STSv?

honda. meh, I'm bored. At least they aren't annoying, like Toyota.

[76ChevyTrucker]

Honda does other things like small motors and power sports stuff well, but I just don't get their cars and "trucks". Either they're just blah, or they're disgusting. It also seems like Acura is loosing their way.

[Sixty8panther]

Well spoken 76CT.

I think Honda should make Motorcycles, generators, ATVs, Dirtbikes,

Go-Kart motors & perhaps some T-Rex/Sparrow thing and that's it.

[ShadowDog]

Two things here:

1) The article suggests that Honda's softer market share of trucks is a good thing. While trucks may see a decline in sales based on the cost of fuel, the article somehow wants me to think that if they decline substantially, Honda being the first to sell zero is a good thing? That's some pretty convincing logic there...something only a real moron can appreciate.

2) Yes, Honda is quite remarkable with motorcycles, lawn mowers and marine motors. Still, I wonder how great an atmosphere we'd enjoy without the pollution of 2-cycle engines?

[76ChevyTrucker]

I also agree with you on that one too Dog. The only way I can even think of the logic the writer has on this one is that with fuel prices increasing, people are going to want to get out of their "gas guzzling" trucks and go to something more economical. In that respect, since the Fridgeline is a "truck" and offers a "more efficient" V6 powerplant, in theory, people will flock to it.

[ShadowDog]

I also agree with you on that one too Dog.  The only way I can even think of the logic the writer has on this one is that with fuel prices increasing, people are going to want to get out of their "gas guzzling" trucks and go to something more economical.  In that respect, since the Fridgeline is a "truck" and offers a "more efficient" V6 powerplant, in theory, people will flock to it.

180934[/snapback]

Oh look, a pig just flew past my window.

[siegen]

It also seems like Acura is loosing their way.

How is Acura losing their way? Because the RL isn't selling as well as they thought? Has GM ever had a model that didn't sell as well as they thought?

Have you actually looked at the sales and compared? Acura has essentially 5 models. Of those 5, the RL is the only one not meeting expectations. The RSX and MDX, which are both old and on the way out, are still selling well. The TL and TSX haven't missed a beat since they were released. Acura has been holding steady with only small dips compared to last year. How much you want to bet when the new MDX and RDX go on sale things will make an abrupt turn?

How are Cadillac sales doing? Down 20%? They must be losing their way.

Here's a little chart for those that care. Did you know Acura sold almost 2,000 NSX's in 1991?

Edited August 16, 2006 by siegen

[76ChevyTrucker]

I guess I should have phrased differently. At first Acura (at least in my mind) was supposed to be this uber-lux brand. Now they are coming down to a more "middle class" brand of things leaving Honda and Acura somewhat fighting for the same territory, if you get what I'm saying. I know that most of their sales are doing well, They've always sold well with the five-ish modles they've had since Acura's inception into the US car market. I've never bashed them for lack of diversity....

[Dsuupr]

Your point is well made 76ChevyTrucker. I too agree acura is loosing their way.

[Sixty8panther]

...RL ...RSX ...MDX, ...TL ...TSX ...MDX ...RDX ...NSX's

180938[/snapback]

I like alphabet soup too.

[insert Cadillac joke here]

They may have sold 2000 NSX in 1991 but that does not mean

that 15 years later you should still be selling the same damn

car with revised headlights. Can you imagine how nasty the

press would be to GM if they were still selling essentially a 1991

Corvette in 2005 but with the C6's headlights?

The NSX was cool for about 24 months... now it's just lame.

No true car enthusiast is going to get an "exotic" car for $85,000

with a V6... at least Jaguar had forced induction on the XJ220.

[Flybrian]

They may have sold 2000 NSX in 1991 but that does not mean

that 15 years later you should still be selling the same damn

car with revised headlights. Can you imagine how nasty the

press would be to GM if they were still selling essentially a 1991

Corvette in 2005 but with the C6's headlights?

181039[/snapback]

1983 C4 Corvette (Yes, there were actually a few)

1996 C4 Corvette