Dealer gouging starting already

[BuddyP]

This is insane, looks like the auction was pulled though. GM needs to have more regulations and guidelines for dealers to follow. GM's sales would be a lot higher if more people could have a decent experience at a dealership.

http://5thgencamaro.blogspot.com/2006/08/d...sits-again.html

[Iroczlover]

yea I saw that yesterday & I laughed.

There was also another one that they took off as well

[76ChevyTrucker]

Crap like that should get people in a lot more trouble than simply just a slap on the wrist. Someone should be losing a job.

[CARBIZ]

Federal/state laws that protect the consumer against price fixing, also prevent manufacturers from dictating prices. It works both ways, guys.

NObody ever complains when a dealer loses money on a car that has sat on their lot for a year.

[76ChevyTrucker]

that's true Biz, very true. Although sometimes, there are real scumbags out there. Even you have to admit that not all dealers and salesmen are the most honest, down-to-earth, people on the planet.

[CARBIZ]

Yeah, I know, but which came first - the chicken or the egg? For every dishonest/sneaky salesperson out there, there is an equally unscrupulous customer who has no respect for the dealer's time or resources spent to offer the vehicles for sale.

I am all for GM buying the dealer network and using the sales people as trained, paid advisors. Then, the price on the sticker would be the price, no dickering and no games.

But the conspiracy theorist in me believes the current situation benefits the manufacturers because they can sit back and let the dealers eat each other alive and claim to be out of it because they can't dictate price.

It is short-sighted of them if they don't think the adversarial sitatuation between customers/sales staff isn't hurting them. When GM had 50% market share people may have been inclined to tolerate the crap, but at 25% there are too many choices for them to put up with what some dealers are putting out.

But when 41 GM dealers are selling the same volume of vehicles as 11 or 12 Toyota stores, then you know a blood bath is in the future.

[PurdueGuy]

NObody ever complains when a dealer loses money on a car that has sat on their lot for a year.

179272[/snapback]

Except the buyer that thought they got a deal on a perfect, new car, and then finds out that the seals have dried out and things start failing...

[CARBIZ]

..........but who saved $10,000. Deal with it. We had 3-2003 Venture minivans left (all hideous red) that were still on our lot in November 2004 - they'd all had birthdays on our lot.

We sold them for $19,999 (they were loaded extended vans) for a LOSS of $7,000 on each one. A YEAR later, a woman called me up and whined that the brakes were gone and the mechanic told her it was from sitting on our lot for more than a year. Possibly, I agreed. But, lady, ya saved $10,000! A new set of brakes is $1,000. It was still a deal. Some people are never happy.

[razoredge]

A new car sitting on a lot for a year would not make the seals fall apart nor would it destroy the brakes

Still Dealers would be wise to start these cars up and move them around once a month.

[Spike]

..........but who saved $10,000.  Deal with it.  We had 3-2003 Venture minivans left (all hideous red) that were still on our lot in November 2004 - they'd all had birthdays on our lot. 

  We sold them for $19,999 (they were loaded extended vans) for a LOSS of $7,000 on each one.  A YEAR later, a woman called me up and whined that the brakes were gone and the mechanic told her it was from sitting on our lot for more than a year.  Possibly, I agreed.  But, lady, ya saved $10,000!  A new set of brakes is $1,000.  It was still a deal.  Some people are never happy.

179741[/snapback]

These cars were also about two model years old. How much would you say a car depreciates each model year?

[cavalier36]

I think Ill E mail this dealer and ask them " IF I BUY THIS CAR FROM YOU AND I KEEP IT THREE YEARS WILL YOU GIVE ME $25,000 MORE THAN ITS WORTH WHEN I TRADE IT IN?? "

[Hudson]

This is insane, looks like the auction was pulled though. GM needs to have more regulations and guidelines for dealers to follow. GM's sales would be a lot higher if more people could have a decent experience at a dealership.

Why should GM intervene? Supply and demand is in effect here. If someone wants to pay that...good for them (the buyer and the dealer). If nobody wants to pay it...good for the buyers.

Just because you are unwilling to pay more than sticker (and in this case, WAY more than sticker), doesn't mean that someone shouldn't be allowed to pay that. Heck, I want a Bentley, but $200,000 is not in my budget for a car. Should I call Volkswagen and tell them to stop charging that? Should I get my congressman in to stop it? No.

While the Camaro is a "blue-collar performance car," there's no reason why a dealer shouldn't be able to make whatever money the market can bear. A retailer is taking advantage of a market when they charge over regular prices for necessaities...and a Camaro doesn't fit into that category. If during Katrina the price of a sump pump or row boat or the like quadrupled, THAT would be "gouging." Asking the market what they are willing to pay to get an early Camaro...not gouging.

[Flybrian]

Look at the 2004 GTO for a clear example of why GM needs to intervene in some cases. GM MSRPs the car for $30k, dealers jack it up to near $40k with lame racing stripes and spoilers, and people walk. Sales suffer because of dealer greed and in that case, "market" pricing killed demand.

[csaba1218]

Look at the 2004 GTO for a clear example of why GM needs to intervene in some cases. GM MSRPs the car for $30k, dealers jack it up to near $40k with lame racing stripes and spoilers, and people walk. Sales suffer because of dealer greed and in that case, "market" pricing killed demand.

180098[/snapback]

i think the gto didnt sell well because it was a just too plain jane .. it is an awesome car but you would never fall in love with it by just looking at it.

and as for the Camaro if you wanna pay that much more for a car just to get the exclusivity of beeing one of the first to drive one then thats your problem..remember all the idiots that bought the PT cruisers for twice the sticker when they first showed their ugly faces.

[Hudson]

Look at the 2004 GTO for a clear example of why GM needs to intervene in some cases. GM MSRPs the car for $30k, dealers jack it up to near $40k with lame racing stripes and spoilers, and people walk. Sales suffer because of dealer greed and in that case, "market" pricing killed demand.

The GTO's problem wasn't a few dealers trying to get some extra money, it was the fact that it was a $33,000 list price from GM. Everyone I've heard complain mentioned that the price was almost $10,000 higher than they expected a GTO to be.

A good dealer knows that if the demand is there, you can price it higher. If the demand isn't there, pricing it under invoice won't give them away.

[prinzSD]

The GTO's problem wasn't a few dealers trying to get some extra money, it was the fact that it was a $33,000 list price from GM. Everyone I've heard complain mentioned that the price was almost $10,000 higher than they expected a GTO to be.

A good dealer knows that if the demand is there, you can price it higher. If the demand isn't there, pricing it under invoice won't give them away.

180120[/snapback]

I think pricing did kill the GTO. I have mentioned it before that I checked out the GTO when it first came out (I liked it from the start when I saw the Monaro and I even bought a diecast car of the Monaro before the GTO die casts came out) and thought the styling could be called to soft but the price gouging turned me off. with the mark up they were asking something like $41,000 if memory serves me correct. I explained to the saleman no one would pay that much for a GTO when they compared it to a used very low mileage 2002 Z06 vette for $44,000 that was sitting on thier lot. Because of that, I wrote off the GTO.

[SuperSport623]

i actually know someone from some car meets that put down a couple grand with a dealer and is guarenteed to own the first challenger on the island

[SS427]

This is insane, looks like the auction was pulled though. GM needs to have more regulations and guidelines for dealers to follow. GM's sales would be a lot higher if more people could have a decent experience at a dealership.

http://5thgencamaro.blogspot.com/2006/08/d...sits-again.html

179165[/snapback]

Kill em, Kill em all, the Ba ard's.

Edited August 15, 2006 by SS427

[Iroczlover]

OK here is one acution that ended http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...75787%26fvi%3D1

& heres one that is just starting same company same set of cars http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/WE-SOLD-ITE...1QQcmdZViewItem

[samy1691]

GM doesn't have to intervene when dealers gouge as has been the case with the Z06. What will happen is that Ford WILL SELL A LOT OF MUSTANGS IN THE PROCESS......you read it here first!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[toesuf94]

Somebody paid the dealer $10,000 for the rights to the first car they get - that is why the auction was ended. They started another auction right after that - ebay did not pull it.

I have to laugh, as I am on the list at my dealer here in Iowa - and it did not cost me a thing. I believe I am second on the list and I get to pick the color and options that I want. I buy for sticker. At that time I will have to put a deposit down, not like this person who is wiring $2000 now and then the balance of the $10k at the time of delivery of the car. If the person is speculating - he is already 10 gs in the hole. How do you make money on that?

While I think that the auctioning of a car on Ebay that does not even have a plant to build it in is deplorable, I have to say that it is their right to offer something and for someone else to accept it. I would personally love to see GM loose the cars once this dealer places the orders and to make sure that these cars that are sold two years before they are built show up AFTER the rest of us get our cars.

[zhawk]

You know, GM could always NOT send that dealer a Camaro. And I would be laughing for a long time.

Dealers can charge whatever they want but Chevy needs to make the statement that there is a limit. On the other hand, any idiot who pays $25K over price for the first Camaro THAT dealer gets deserves whatever they get. NOthing states that it will ever be a special edition or have any extra value, in fact it probably won't.

I'd hold out to see if there will be a Pace Car edition or a 69/09 heritage edition. Something that is a bit different and possibly special.

[Hudson]

...not like this person who is wiring $2000 now and then the balance of the $10k at the time of delivery of the car.  If the person is speculating - he is already 10 gs in the hole.  How do you make money on that?

Not only that, but he's out nearly three years of interest on the $2,000.

[Guest Josh]

If people here think their dealers will honor their "verbal" agreements when push comes to shove....think again. The Solstice was a good idea of what will happen.

"I am #1"........two months later "My dealer told me I'm no longer #1 and this is bull$h!, F'ed up, etc"

For those that *think* they have an agreement with their dealer....think again. Lucky for me. I dealt with the #1 Pontiac dealer in the World (literally) so I was insured the best deal.

[NOS2006]

If people here think their dealers will honor their "verbal" agreements when push comes to shove....think again. The Solstice was a good idea of what will happen.

"I am #1"........two months later "My dealer told me I'm no longer #1 and this is bull$h!, F'ed up, etc"

For those that *think* they have an agreement with their dealer....think again. Lucky for me. I dealt with the #1 Pontiac dealer in the World (literally) so I was insured the best deal.

180739[/snapback]

Indeed. Too bad we don't have a good Chevy dealership around here though..

[76ChevyTrucker]

Thank goodness I have a good Chevy dealership down here, so that if I wanted to, I could go and sign my name down on the waiting list right now, but I'm not financially able to buy the car, so what's the point for me.

[GMTruckGuy74]

GM doesn't have to intervene when dealers gouge as has been the case with the Z06. What will happen is that Ford WILL SELL A LOT OF MUSTANGS IN THE PROCESS......you read it here first!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

180540[/snapback]

I saw it happen with the Solstice and SKY. Many of the Saturn dealers around me were selling the SKY at MSRP and not over (some I believe had some dealer add-ons). However, every Pontiac dealer had a $2,000-$5,000 premium on top of every Solstice. When I ordered my car and again when I got to test drive the demo model, there were Solstice-deposited people in my Saturn dealership putting their recently returned deposit money on the SKY since they couldn't get the Solstice or were being overly charged for one. I love my car but refused to pay over MSRP for one (thank God I lucked out with my Saturn dealer sticking to MSRP ).

[ToniCipriani]

GM should try to get them owned. Assign them a quota of zero or something, and don't tell them till the last moment. Then right at the moment that happy and stupid bidder goes to pickup the car, all the dealer can say is they don't have a car.

[toesuf94]

I have spent over $100k with the dealer that has put me on the list with a verbal commitment. All I have to do is make the deposit when I order the car. I doubt that they want to loose me as a client. Also, I made sure to get them information on the concept when I returned from Detroit at the unveiling. At that time they actually thanked me by starting the 'if list' - then when they had the announcement about building it they notified ME that my father and I were on the list already. I personally do not care of I am #1 or #10 on the list...they tell me they will sell it to me for MSRP and let me order it the way I want it, then I will be there with the check book. If they do what the Pontiac dealer tried to do with the GTO and Solstice (Market Adjustment Value $$$) then I will walk - just like I did before.

[CARBIZ]

Again, what came first - the chicken or the egg.

So, a dealer has a waiting list. The local ZM (Zone Manager) has told the dealer it will only get TWO of the said vehicle (because the entire country is only getting 125) and you have already taken a deposit on two, warning both customers that neither one may get the vehicle, just to be safe.

Along comes a 3rd customer and this guy/gal offers the dealer an extra $5k to be put on the list and to even "bump" one of the others. Or how about if the customer turns around and offers up his place to someone else for a cool $5k.

As repugnant as it sounds, the same thing happens in the housing market. A house is advertised at $439k. Four offers are submitted, one of them being for $525k. Do you think the vendor is crazy? Do you think that he/she would say NO to the $525k???

Capitalism, for better or worse, is the way to go, boys and girls. If someone is willing to pay, I say they are stupid.

Anyone see original Challengers and Superbirds going for $125k+ on eBay? If someone is crazy enough to pay that for a 30 year old car that was once $3,500, bully for them, I say!