Anybody using E85?

[GMman]

I've done a search and couldn't find any topic on E85, so I have to ask is there anybody using E85? We recently got an E85 pump at a Kroger gas station in Carrollton Texas. It's running $2.52 per gallon. The brochure states it's 100+ octane, but I haven't been able to tell any difference in power or otherwise since I've been using it. This is my 3rd tank and I have noticed a drop in MPG.....around 3-4 mpg less for city driving. Haven't been on a trip so I can't speak for hwy/mpg, but I could manage 20 mpg/hwy on regular...between 65-70 mph.

The brochures they put out are pretty cool.. It says: The American Fuel....Fuel from the midwest not the mideast. So far the drop in mpg is the ony downside I can find...

[regfootball]

my buddy has had a couple e 85 vehciles, you get a little less mpg typically than regular unleaded. its nice to have a choice of fuels.

[GMman]

Yeah, it's important that people don't miss the point of E85. The mission is to reduce our dependance on foreign oil. All the experts say it will do that greatly if/when it's used on a wide scale. I assumed that many folks in the midwest would have it readily available...

[loki]

the drop in mpg is prolly proportional to how much drop useing premium takes away from a regular recommended vehicle. someone scanned in an article saying it could be as much as 30% less (compared to regular) , they used the new tahoe as the test vehicle.

[Drew Dowdell]

As E85 becomes more common you may see a switch to cars that are designed to run on E85 first and gasoline second.

Part of the reason for the drop in efficiency is that the current engines are designed to run primarily on gasoline and E85 only as an afterthought.

[razoredge]

I wish I understood more about this E85. Like how or why a engine needs to be built to run it. Some type of combustion chamer issue ? Fuel system issue ? Is this something none of the older cars can run on ? Its ethanol right ? I wonder how much different it is from what the moonshiners used to run in their cars during the depression............I heard stock car (NASCAR) got its rootes from old shine runners. Does this mean what is old is now new again ? Will we be able to tap our fuel tanks at parties and get down with it.

I'll go do a search but any info or known links would be appreaciated.

Corn burning stoves were supposed to be another new alternative for heat. Apparently the corn needs to be dried to X% inorder to work properly. I questioned using vast amounts of LP to dry corn so it could then be used for fuel. I wonder the process to make this E85. Can it be used to fire current steam turbine electric plants or will all that stuff need to be rebuilt ?

[razoredge]

OK this explains the loss of fuel mileage as well as gain in mileage from diesel

from http://www.e85fuel.com/forsuppliers/e85techinfo.php

E85 AND ENERGY CONTENT – how much energy is there?

What is the real energy content of E85? How many btus in a gallon of E85 in comparison to unleaded gasoline? For that matter, what is a btu? How far can a vehicle operate on E85 in comparison to gasoline? The first step in answering these commonly asked questions is to determine a common denominator.

There is only one common unit of measurement in reference to energy, the British Thermal Unit (btu). This is a standard unit for measuring heat energy. One btu represents the amount of heat required to raise one pound of water one degree Fahrenheit at sea level. More commonly, one btu is the energy produced by a typical wooden kitchen match.

According to the American Automobile Manufacturers Association, a gallon of typical gasoline contains 114,132 btu’s. However, even this amount of energy content changes from summer to winter as gasoline’s volatility is seasonally adjusted. For the purposes of this summary, we assume the following:

1 U.S. Gallon of gasoline contains 114,132 btu

1 U.S. Gallon of no. 2 diesel fuel contains 138,000 btu

1 U.S. Gallon of ethanol contains 76,000 btu

1 U.S. Gallon of methanol contains 56,800 btu

1 U.S. Gallon of propane contains 84,500 btu

1 U.S. Gallon of compressed natural gas contains 19,800 btu

Ethanol is denatured by adding 5 gallons of gasoline to 100 gallons of ethanol (4.76%), therefore:

Ethanol @ 76,000 btu/gal x 95.24% = 72,382

Gasoline @ 114,132 btu/gal x 4.76 = 5,433

Denatured ethanol = 77,815 btu/gallon

E85 is then a blend of denatured ethanol and gasoline, therefore:

Denatured ethanol @ 77,815 btu/gal x 85% = 66,143

Gasoline @114,132 btu/gal x 15% = 17,120

E85 = 83,263 btu/gal

E85 - how much energy is there?

Page Two

In an arithmetic sense, 1 volumetric gallon of E85 represents 73% of the btu value of gasoline.

Should an assumption be made that if E85 contains 27% less btu’s than a gallon of gasoline, the vehicle will travel 27% less miles on the same number of gallons of fuel? Does this mean that it costs 27% more to operate a vehicle on E85 than on unleaded gasoline?

The answers to the preceding questions are NO! There will indeed be a loss in fuel mileage when a vehicle is operated on E85. Actual driving experiences indicate that the loss of fuel mileage in a vehicle using E85 will range from 5% to 12% depending on the driver and the conditions of the terrain.

[AM6_Cutlass]

We just got E85 here in Pittsburgh at the Sheetz stations. It's running at about 2.69/gallon where regular 87 octane gas is about 2.99/gal. if I had a car that was compatable, i would give it a try. If the price difference grows it may become a criteria for my next car to run on it. I had to stop my friend from putting it in his 3800 Impala LS. He told me the thought it was just a lower octane gas .

[razoredge]

another problem

The impact on supply infrastructure is going to be difficult, but manageable. Ethanol cannot efficiently be transported in pipelines (either straight or blended) because it picks up too much water. That means ethanol will have to be transported by truck, barge and rail into regional terminal locations for blending. Marketers and retailers will also face some issues, though not nearly as great as those faced upstream.

more trucking/shipping = more fuel consumption

[razoredge]

Then it gets really depressing

http://e85vehicles.com/

[Drew Dowdell]

We just got E85 here in Pittsburgh at the Sheetz stations.  It's running at about 2.69/gallon where regular 87 octane gas is about 2.99/gal.  if I had a car that was compatable, i would give it a try.  If the price difference grows it may become a criteria for my next car to run on it.  I had to stop my friend from putting it in his 3800 Impala LS.  He told me the thought it was just a lower octane gas .

176738[/snapback]

do you know which sheetz have it?

[daves87rs]

But as E85 becomes more popular..I think they will fix some of the issues with it..

And the price should drop also...I was told that it could be as cheap as 1.50, and companies can still make good money...

If it becomes more popular ..my next car will be a E85-able truck.

[mute]

my van could run on e85 but its been run on regular pump gas so long itll prolly mess my engine . . . they have these pumps in the midwest all over the place

[Farkas]

This is kind of weird, but the station I usually fill up at [sam's Club] has the following label on the pump:

Contains ethanol

I don't know how much, but it struck me as odd...

Anybody else see this before?

[DetroitNut90]

A quick look over at s-series.org tells me that the Sonoma could run on E85, but only after doing what I consider to be more or less a full overhaul on the 4300 V6. Besides, I have yet to see an E85 pump anywhere around DC or Baltimore.

[Drew Dowdell]

This is kind of weird, but the station I usually fill up at [sam's Club] has the following label on the pump:

Contains ethanol

I don't know how much, but it struck me as odd...

Anybody else see this before?

176846[/snapback]

many gas stations sell gasoline with 10% ethanol in them

[Drew Dowdell]

my van could run on e85 but its been run on regular pump gas so long itll prolly mess my engine . . .  they have these pumps in the midwest all over the place

176845[/snapback]

supposedly you can switch back and forth at will

[scharmer05]

i use it if i can buy it for at least 60 cents less than regular (which is pretty much the norm up in this neck of the woods)...that makes it overall about the same price as running regular. I get about 12-13mpg with it compaired to 15-16 with regular.

[scharmer05]

also...i was talking with my grandpa about E85 and he was telling me that with the price of corn the way it is and how much it costs to make ethanol, E85 should be at just a little over a dollar a gallon.........who is getting all that money because E85 is selling for about 2.30-2.50 up here in ND and much more than that in the rest of the country.

[daves87rs]

also...i was talking with my grandpa about E85 and he was telling me that with the price of corn the way it is and how much it costs to make ethanol, E85 should be at just a little over a dollar a gallon.........who is getting all that money because E85 is selling for about 2.30-2.50 up here in ND and much more than that in the rest of the country.

176937[/snapback]

It could be..but it really has to get out there first...not enough plants running yet...

[speedy_2]

E85 is a poor excuse for us to not use our own freakin' oil supply. Isn't Venezuela paying like $0.12/gallon???

Edited August 7, 2006 by speedy_2

[Satty]

another problem

The impact on supply infrastructure is going to be difficult, but manageable. Ethanol cannot efficiently be transported in pipelines (either straight or blended) because it picks up too much water. That means ethanol will have to be transported by truck, barge and rail into regional terminal locations for blending. Marketers and retailers will also face some issues, though not nearly as great as those faced upstream.

more trucking/shipping = more fuel consumption

176741[/snapback]

Razor is right, ethanol is a transportation nightmare. I hate to say it, but the only way we can, anytime soon, get away from using foreign oil is to quit driving so damn much.

[mute]

supposedly you can switch back and forth at will

176851[/snapback]

welll im sure you could but my engine is 10 yrs and 140k miles on pump gas . . . its set in its ways and i think by now if i tried to switch it may make a mess of tihngs

[razoredge]

Razor is right, ethanol is a transportation nightmare.  I hate to say it, but the only way we can, anytime soon, get away from using foreign oil is to quit driving so damn much.

177005[/snapback]

Why thank ya sir ! The artical says there are ways around it. In another area they talked about fiberglass pipe. That would mean alot of construction jobs, not a bad thing for those of us that cant deal with books. The infastructure is ruff in this country anyhow

Its actually a pretty good site but I still did not find anything on what it takes to turn the corn into raw ethanol. Or what it would do to engines that were not designed to run E85. I mean we have mowers, saws, weed wackers, tractors, rototillers, ect. ect. ect. COnversion will take a long time but were gonna have to do something soon anyhow. With all the push it sure sounds like this is a serious route our country is going to take.

So hell yea, lets get on with it ! You never get anywhere if you dont start.

[Turbojett]

ignorant question:

can any car run on e85, or does the car have to be secifically designed to run on it. If you put e85 into a nromal gasoline engine, will it damage it in any way?

[scharmer05]

welll im sure you could but my engine is 10 yrs and 140k miles on pump gas . . . its set in its ways and i think by now if i tried to switch it may make a mess of tihngs

177081[/snapback]

nope....seriously go ahead switch back and forth if you want....no damage will be done

[scharmer05]

ignorant question:

can any car run on e85, or does the car have to be secifically designed to run on it. If you put e85 into a nromal gasoline engine, will it damage it in any way?

177422[/snapback]

ethanol is much more corrosive than gasoline is so they use different seals and stainless steel gas lines and maybe a few other things depending on the engine. I know someone that put it into their run-down buick that they didn't care about and the service engine soon light came on. It would cause damage down the road.

[AM6_Cutlass]

do you know which sheetz have it?

176832[/snapback]

I know the one over by Century III in West Mifflin does. I just drove by the one in Monroeville two days ago and forgot to check

[Mr.Krinkle]

gas over here is 3.25/3.3/9. cant forget those 9/10ths of a penny. bastards.

id gladly pay 2.69 or whatever for e 85. even if it gets a little less mpg. the trade off is performance and not supporting those greedy ass oil sons a bitches.

well worth it, in my humble opinion.

[GMman]

ignorant question:

can any car run on e85, or does the car have to be secifically designed to run on it. If you put e85 into a nromal gasoline engine, will it damage it in any way?

177422[/snapback]

The way I understand it, any car will burn the E85, but prolonged use of it in cars not designed to use it will cause corrosive damage in the fuel system.

I have filled up approximately 6-7 times with the E85 and the MPG drop is pretty significant. According to the computer, my average combined city/hwy with more city than highway was around 14.5 - 15 MPG. The same sort of driving averaged 9.5 MPG with E85. Seeing your average fuel mileage read 9.5 mpg when gas is this high will make you want to say a few words that aren't in your memory verse. Even though E85 is running around $2.50 / gallon (which is 30 cents cheaper than gasoline), 9.5 MPG is hard to stomach.... Also, when I'm running gasoline, I can baby it on the highway....around 65-70 mph and get around 20 mpg. Not so with E85. No amount of 'babying it' seems to make any difference in the mileage....

[mute]

do you have to completely drain your tank to use ethanol or can you use it on top of fuel?

[GMman]

do you have to completely drain your tank to use ethanol or can you use it on top of fuel?

183221[/snapback]

Well the E85 is 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline. No matter how you fill your tank, you cannot get more than 85% ethanol in your tank....so you don't have to worry about having too much or whatever....

Regular gasoline has some ratio of ethanol in it too....I'm not sure what the percentage is though...