More Motor Trend Bias

[tama z71]

Motor Trend has recently bounded the line from bias into pure stupidity, and one of their latest comparisons takes that line even further.

In their recent Road Test, comparing the Toyota Avalon, Hyundai Azera and Volkswagen Passat, one thing was glaringly absent -- the Buick Lucerne. For a car that is comparable in every single point of analysis, I can think the desire to match that cool throwback photo from the 1970's the only reason they left it out.

But they didn't completely ignore it. When the Azera placed third in the comparion, MT was quick to point out that this car - outsold by the Lucerne nearly 5x over - "was eating Buick's lunch."

Friends, this type of journalism isn't biased -- it's stupid. MT has recently made several ankle-biting undercuts at GM, and they amount to poor, unprofessional writing. I couldn't let this last one slip away, so I sent another letter to MT, hoping that maybe this one will garner a response.

I have a really hard time questioning the validity of your magazine lately, and your recent Azera/Avalon/Passat comparison is one of the reasons why. Number one, why isn't the Buick Lucerne, a car comparable to those tested in nearly every category, not included? Was it just so you could capture that cool throwback photo? Also, when the Lucerene outsells ALL THREE of the cars tested, quotes such as "Don't look now, Buick and others, but the Azera's eating your lunch," can't even be called biased. That's just childish.

[sciguy_0504]

The Passat should not be in there. The Lucerene and Montego/500 should be, however.

[razoredge]

Its interesting to read these guys struggling to use important words for descriptions. I think they may just be a bunch of romance novel authors in denial. Its also interesting to see that many "comparisions" are so close that the human cant detect the difference so now they need to use "devices" to determine whats louder or has the least deflection and somehow we are still supposed to consider these .02 differences important.

Im not sure if the V6 Lucerne is supposed to be in this catagory but they would have riped it apart had it been so its most likely just as well. I would like to note had a V6 Lucerne with the L67 or L32 engine been available it would have performed on par in all engine performance catagories including mileage. Both the Toy and VW required premium gas so that would not have been an issue and at 260/280 for the L32 it would have gotten the job done. But nooooooooooooo! Buick is not allowed to use that currently available engine anymo

Hyundias 10/100,000 and low price are brought to the forefront once again

Toyota wins by it chrome plated name (drivers knee air bags )

Passat out performs and is the only one of the three that doesnt look like ass gone bad........so naturally it can not win

I would think if they wanted to replicate any photo or test they would have gone with the Buick, Mercury and some Chrysler

[razoredge]

The Passat should not be in there.  The Lucerene and Montego/500 should be, however.

175996[/snapback]

Wondering why you say that ?

[Flybrian]

Passat/Maxima/I'd even accept Grand Prix or better yet, LaCrosse Super for a FWD midlux performance sedan test.

Avalon/Azera/Lucerne is a natural.

And if the Azera is indeed eating Buick's lunch, it must be the tampered Motts applesauce and stale Oeros because not only is the Azera not a well-designed car, its already being fleeted. I really like getting into my $30k+ Hyundai, closing the door to watch the one piece of blindingly-glossed plastic wood on panel miss the piece on the dash by a good quarter inch, and stare at the dead plates smattered all over my 'loaded' car and wonder what exactly am I missing?

[Mr.Krinkle]

gm doesnt pay motortrends bills. its that simple.

dont be so naive to think that none of these mags are on the take. they all are but it shows up in differently. dont lose your head over it.

i dont think that mt would deny props where props are due or outrightly say a certain car is junk... but there are other more creative ways to get around it.

if it was up to them everything would be a v12 ferrari they were testing.

they cater to an audience, and for the most part someone who buys a camry or an impala, or a g6 doesnt really care what they have to say. its just good reading.

dont forget the 2 for one piece they did about the gto and benz, too. they also compared a g6 convert and a mustang convert.

in that context both seemed like great cars. the stang won, but for obvious reasons...(power..just in case youre half asleep....)

all with a grain of salt. cant flip out over every single little fart that passes through.

Edited August 4, 2006 by Mr.Krinkle

[pow]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but they already compared the Lucerne with the 300 and Montego. Just because they didn't test your favorite car every friggin' comparo doesn't make M/T biased or "stupid." Just logical.

[razoredge]

Your absolutely right. There is no telling what makes auto rags bias and stupid...............they just are. Journalists, news broadcasters and critics have always been amounst the lowest of socioties rodents. Those that can do and those that cant critize.

[tama z71]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but they already compared the Lucerne with the 300 and Montego. Just because they didn't test your favorite car every friggin' comparo doesn't make M/T biased or "stupid." Just logical.

176010[/snapback]

The fact that they didn't test it doesn't amount to half the bull$h! of the potshots they consistently take at GM, like I pointed out in my letter.

[toyoguy]

3.6L Passat starts at a freakin $30k

[Cananopie]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but they already compared the Lucerne with the 300 and Montego. Just because they didn't test your favorite car every friggin' comparo doesn't make M/T biased or "stupid." Just logical.

176010[/snapback]

That wasn't the point- the point was the unwarranted and unfounded "eating Buick's lunch" comment. He was just adding that it'd be nice to see the magazine actually compare these vehicles because most people already do.

[Cadillacfan]

I stopped reading these tests because I know there will be a little bias by the writers. I think once GM comes out with the RWD vehicles in a few years, I'll start paying attention again.

[Regalguy01]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but they already compared the Lucerne with the 300 and Montego. Just because they didn't test your favorite car every friggin' comparo doesn't make M/T biased or "stupid." Just logical.

176010[/snapback]

They have it in for the General and other domestics so bad that its sickening. Notice how they ask the question in the ad below it ''Can we trust the general to differentiate the enclave from its siblings'' As if we don't all remember the cookie-cutter GM cars from the 80's. But speaking of the late 80's, who could forget those ugly, cheap, unreliable Hyundai Excels, Scoupes and Elantras? My how they can make concessions for an automaker as long as they are not american.

My point is, why do these jackasses hold a grudge with our own so long, yet they seem so forgiving of anything to come from overseas? We know that Buick got left behind in the late 90's and early part of this decade, however the Lucerne is clearly a winner. Month after month the car-buying public solidifies that fact. And am I the only one who thinks the Azera looks like the last gen Acura RL on crack?

The only people who would cross shop a Lucerne or Avalon with an Azera would have to be on the Motor Trend payroll. The people who buy the Lucerne or Avalon will likely be stable, middle to upper middle class, well financed people and likely over 35 yrs old. The people who buy the Hyundai are likely to be younger, 20 to 30 somethings with families and can't afford anything more expensive. We are talking two VERY different customer demographics.

Have said it once, and will say it again. AZERA = A ZERO No friggin' premium sedan!

[tama z71]

They have it in for the General and other domestics so bad that its sickening. Notice how they ask the question in the ad below it ''Can we trust the general to differentiate the enclave from its siblings'' As if we don't all remember the cookie-cutter GM cars from the 80's. But speaking of the late 80's, who could forget those ugly, cheap, unreliable Hyundai Excels, Scoupes and Elantras?  My how they can make concessions for an automaker as long as they are not american.

My point is, why do these jackasses hold a grudge with our own so long, yet they seem so forgiving of anything to come from overseas? We know that Buick got left behind in the late 90's and early part of this decade, however the Lucerne is clearly a winner. Month after month the car-buying public solidifies that fact. And am I the only one who thinks the Azera looks like the last gen Acura RL on crack?

The only people who would cross shop a Lucerne or Avalon with an Azera would have to be on the Motor Trend payroll.  The people who buy the Lucerne or Avalon will likely be stable, middle to upper middle class, well financed people and likely over 35 yrs old. The people who buy the Hyundai are likely to be younger, 20 to 30 somethings with families and can't afford anything more expensive.  We are talking two VERY different customer demographics.

Have said it once, and will say it again. AZERA = A ZERO No friggin' premium sedan!

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[GMman]

And am I the only one who thinks the Azera looks like the last gen Acura RL on crack?

No sir. You're not. I'm with you. However, I think the Avalon looks like the crack of the Acura's ass.

The only people who would cross shop a Lucerne or Avalon with an Azera would have to be on the Motor Trend payroll.  The people who buy the Lucerne or Avalon will likely be stable, middle to upper middle class, well financed people and likely over 35 yrs old.

My opinion is that the people that shop for an avalon or an azera are those that believe that japan builds a better car than the United States does. I believe that they've bought into the lie that American cars are unreliable and shoddy. It's this kind of thinking that makes me say words that aren't in my memory verse. I've heard it said more than once that toyota-son and hyndai-yata-moto are trying to "out Buick" Buick when they built the avalon and azera. Buick is synonymous with quiteness, quality, and roomy luxury. Everyone else is just copying the leader. I am glad to see a turn around in the amount of attention that Buick is getting from GM now..

[Chicagoland]

And Korea is not part of Japan, but some think it is.

[enzl]

No sir.  You're not.  I'm with you.  However, I think the Avalon looks like the crack of the Acura's ass.

My opinion is that the people that shop for an avalon or an azera are those that believe that japan builds a better car than the United States does.  I believe that they've bought into the lie that American cars are unreliable and shoddy.  It's this kind of thinking that makes me say words that aren't in my memory verse.  I've heard it said more than once that toyota-son and hyndai-yata-moto are trying to "out Buick" Buick when they built the avalon and azera.  Buick is synonymous with quiteness, quality, and roomy luxury.  Everyone else is just copying the leader.  I am glad to see a turn around in the amount of attention that Buick is getting from GM now..

177168[/snapback]

While we can quibble with Hyundai's design (which, IMO, is no worse or better than the LaCrosse or Lucerne, Buick's two lastest efforts--I'm assuming the Rainier & Terrazza are being ignored for obvious resaons), but, the cold hard truth is that almost every Buick between 1990 & today has been a compromised effort...either thru platform sharing or uninspired design, they've defined mediocrity on every level except reliability...

Buick is synonimous with bland, geriatric vehicles...only those old enough to fit their demographic can remember consistent great product eminating from Buick's showroom floors. Hyundai gets credit because of the distance they've travelled with their product and the balls it takes to stick a 10/100k warranty on a product....nothing more or less.

I don't like Hyundais either, but lets be real here....what recent Buick product (Enclave isn't out yet, so don't cheat) is really eyecatching or unique or a true dollar value (@MSRP)...the answer, unfortunately, is none.

Buick has all the potential in the world (see Hyundai as an example of how quickly perception can turn around)...but the General hasn't seen fit to address the product to this point in time....here's hoping they do in the near future.

[GMman]

While we can quibble with Hyundai's design (which, IMO, is no worse or better than the LaCrosse or Lucerne, Buick's two lastest efforts--I'm assuming the Rainier & Terrazza are being ignored for obvious resaons), but, the cold hard truth is that almost every Buick between 1990 & today has been a compromised effort...either thru platform sharing or uninspired design, they've defined mediocrity on every level except reliability...

Buick is synonimous with bland, geriatric vehicles...only those old enough to fit their demographic can remember consistent great product eminating from Buick's showroom floors. Hyundai gets credit because of the distance they've travelled with their product and the balls it takes to stick a 10/100k warranty on a product....nothing more or less.

I don't like Hyundais either, but lets be real here....what recent Buick product (Enclave isn't out yet, so don't cheat) is really eyecatching or unique or a true dollar value (@MSRP)...the answer, unfortunately, is none.

Buick has all the potential in the world (see Hyundai as an example of how quickly perception can turn around)...but the General hasn't seen fit to address the product to this point in time....here's hoping they do in the near future.

177906[/snapback]

Dude, I can't argue with a lot of what you said here, so I won't. I will give credit to hyundai for building a decent car and standing behind it with a great warranty....and I'll grant you that Buick hasn't built a real "exciting" car in quite a while. I do, however, happen to think the Lacrosse and Lucerne are great looking cars (albeit goofy names) especially in a world of camry's and accords. I think their dollar value is high too, in those regards. I currently don't own a Buick, which is a direct reflection of the products they currently offer.

While the Lasabre and Park Avenue were not real eye catching when they were being built, they did excactly what they were designed to do, which in my opinion was offer a large, reliable, QUIET, conservative yet slightly luxurious cars. There are people who don't believe those are admirable traits, but nonetheless, Buick did that better than anybody else. And they sold an assload of those cars and had japan attempting to copy them with the avalon. I'm with you on the platform sharing, but not on the defining mediocrity thing....because it takes more than design to make a car great....that's really the only thing they lacked. I have high hopes for Buick and fortunately, the future looks bright..

[razoredge]

I just cant agree with all of what Enzl says myself. I think the Lucerne is very eye catching and I dont think the competiton from Avalon or the Lexus's or Nissans holds a candle. I also feel that the Lacrosse and Lucerne are good dollar values though there is items about the packageing I have concerns with. I find the Lacrosse more appealing than any Toyota or any Nissan. There is no car from the mid 90's other than a few other GM products that I find more exciting than the Riviera. The Park Avenue especially the Ultra was just that..... Ultra. Maybe not sporty styling but it was very handsome and was, after all a luxury car not a "sports sedan". The last two gen of LeSabre..............oh well....... as owner of a 86 LeSabre Limited 2dr. I found the 92-99 & 00-05 a real drag to look at. Thats the only full car from Buick in the past 3 decades I have not found appealing, yet 92-99 sold well and recieved awards. The LeSabres lack of appeal to me was settled for me with the Olds LSS nearly the same car but sexier and that is why we bought one and there is nothing that car lacks in usable features or comforts. Century/Regal is another oh well, sold well but were never more to me than a toned down version of the Riviera with strange cloth that was years to late to the party. Previous 2dr Regal was far better in its day for its day.

If Lucerne and former Riviera and Park Avenue were uninspired design, bland, geriatric vehicles, of mediocrity, I would like to see the cars in their price range that competed against them that were anything more. Ive looked at many of these highly acclaimed mid luxury cars and while I can see their appeal I can not see their superiority and very few have design that appeals to me.

Edited August 10, 2006 by razoredge

[enzl]

I just cant agree with all of what Enzl says myself. I think the Lucerne is very eye catching and I dont think the competiton from Avalon or the Lexus's or Nissans holds a candle. I also feel that the Lacrosse and Lucerne are good dollar values though there is items about the packageing I have concerns with. I find the Lacrosse more appealing than any Toyota or any Nissan. There is no car from the mid 90's other than a few other GM products that I find more exciting than the Riviera. The Park Avenue especially the Ultra was just that..... Ultra. Maybe not sporty styling but it was very handsome and was, after all a luxury car not a "sports sedan". The last two gen of LeSabre..............oh well....... as owner of a 86 LeSabre Limited 2dr. I found the 92-99 & 00-05 a real drag to look at. Thats the only full car from Buick in the past 3 decades I have not found appealing, yet 92-99 sold well and recieved awards. The LeSabres lack of appeal to me was settled for me with the Olds LSS nearly the same car but sexier and that is why we bought one and there is nothing that car lacks in usable features or comforts. Century/Regal is another oh well, sold well but were never more to me than a toned down version of the Riviera with strange cloth that was years to late to the party. Previous 2dr Regal was far better in its day for its day.

If Lucerne and former Riviera and Park Avenue were uninspired design, bland, geriatric vehicles,  of mediocrity, I would like to see the cars in their price range that competed against them that were anything more. Ive looked at many of these highly acclaimed mid luxury cars and while I can see their appeal I can not see their superiority and very few have design that appeals to me.

178076[/snapback]

I think both previous posters make excellent points...My opinions are just that, an opinion, however, I see a tremendous opportunity lost in the 'near luxury' segment that may never be regained....

In the last 10 years, much growth has been in the 25-40k market, fueled by excellent product from Lexus, Infiniti, BMW, Audi & MB....where is Buick's aspirational product in this segment? GM, in essence, gave it away without a fight...

Here's a couple of ideas that would have cost little and gained alot:

1. A lower priced Sigma, with classic Buick design cues: a coupe (Riviera), 'vert (think Reatta) or sedan might have helped stem the tide of import defectors

2. G based people mover (think Pacifica)

3. Use of modern Epsilon platform (think 112" Maxx/G6) as a traditionally shaped sedan, rather than the old W LaCrosse

4. Keep old, great names

5. Develop a Buick use for F-body platforms that would have kept the Camaro & Firebird platform alive...which would have helped Chevy & Pontiac's images as well

That's merely off the top of my head. I think Buick is far from done, but the latest entries do nothing to move things forward in any way.

[razoredge]

I think both previous posters make excellent points...My opinions are just that, an opinion, however, I see a tremendous opportunity lost in the 'near luxury' segment that may never be regained....

In the last 10 years, much growth has been in the 25-40k market, fueled by excellent product from Lexus, Infiniti, BMW, Audi & MB....where is Buick's aspirational product in this segment? GM, in essence, gave it away without a fight...

Here's a couple of ideas that would have cost little and gained alot:

1. A lower priced Sigma, with classic Buick design cues: a coupe (Riviera), 'vert (think Reatta) or sedan might have helped stem the tide of import defectors

2. G based people mover (think Pacifica)

3. Use of modern Epsilon platform (think 112" Maxx/G6) as a traditionally shaped sedan, rather than the old W LaCrosse

4. Keep old, great names

5. Develop a Buick use for F-body platforms that would have kept the Camaro & Firebird platform alive...which would have helped Chevy & Pontiac's images as well

That's merely off the top of my head. I think Buick is far from done, but the latest entries do nothing to move things forward in any way.

178123[/snapback]

Mostly agree, and yes GM did just hault everything else while they saved Cadillac. Im still steamed over what they did to B.O. & P.

Im must confess Im a bit concerned with Epilson.......owning one

old names/ new names, I really dont know enough to say what is best for the future

I think Lucerne is a move forward from LeSabre but yes it is damn little. THere is nothing at all to make me feel its anymore car than our 97 LSS other than the G platform, and the LSS is a 9 year old.

[DenCo]

Your absolutely right. There is no telling what makes auto rags bias and stupid...............they just are. Journalists, news broadcasters and critics have always been amounst the lowest of socioties rodents. Those that can do and those that cant critize.

176050[/snapback]

Gee, thanks... It's nice to read blanket statements like that that insult what you do and, consequently, yourself.

While I am aware that part of the industry definitely has its problems and some definitely seem to have lost their way, no longer following the basic code of ethics, neutrality and whatnot; I still don't appreciate labelling the whole lot because of a few rotten apples.

[Sixty8panther]

This kind of crap has been heppening for two decades now.

Remember all those "affordable sedan" comparisons where

they'd test the Golf, Contour, Sonata, Accord, Camry,

Altima & 626 but the Grand Am, Malibu, Alero & Century

would not even be mentioned.

[trinacriabob]

Look at the current 2007/2008 Motor Trend Buyers guide within the latest issue.

Under LaCrosse, the summary says something like 'fortunately not the future of Buick' or something like that.

It's obvious they don't like the brand. Their one-liner for Lucerne is a little more flattering, but not by much.