Front Drive Mafia of C&G - Official Thread

[NOS2006]

My V6 Camaro has a 57/43 weight distribution.

And my car has traction control programmed into the PCM (all 3.8L A4 F-Bodies do), which is why I can't burn out. And I'm pretty sure the rear-end (3.73s instead of 3.08s) gave me a hell of a lot more usable low-end power than ever before :AH-HA_wink:

[razoredge]

Capriceman - Overdrive in automobile is a gear in which the output shaft of the transmission turns faster than the input shaft. It is a higher gear not a down shift but a upshift.

In a heavy truck transmission, primarily consisting of the Fuller Roadrangers 13, 15 & 18 speed overdrive is a higher range than direct drive its an upshift not a downshift. Once again, one in which the output shaft of the trany turns faster than the input shaft. THis means the output shaft of the tranny is actually turning X RPM's faster than the engine.

This is a fuel mileage thing. The engine RPMs come down and the truck or car goes faster. It has less power not more power. For more power you downshift not upshift.

Sorry man but you got that one backwards.

[razoredge]

My V6 Camaro has a 57/43 weight distribution.

Thats what I thought, not much better than a FWDer

And my car has traction control programmed into the PCM (all 3.8L A4 F-Bodies do), which is why I can't burn out. And I'm pretty sure the rear-end (3.73s instead of 3.08s) gave me a hell of a lot more usable low-end power than ever before :AH-HA_wink:

I would have no way of knowing that and didnt know I was answering a trick question. My LSS also has traction control built into the brake antilock/TC system not the PCM and I didnt feel the need to throw that into the scenerio. I dont like it and shut it off. My points about tractive torque weight transfer in FWD are reality as well as engine modifications effect on powerbands. Also your lower gear ratios will balance power & traction much faster than taller gears and dont ask me how to explain that one, its over my head and something a physics major might understand

178252[/snapback]

[capriceman]

I was thinking of passing gear. yeah i screwed up that sorry.

[Hudson]

There are two things (well...only two I'll try to clear up) being confused here:

There are two different definitions for "overdrive." The old "overdrive" was a separate unit (I know some British cars had this) where certain gears (usually third and fourth) can have another ratio multiplied in. For example, you could shift from first to second to third then engage overdrive (making a fourth ratio) then to fourth (turning off overdrive possibly gives you a fifth ratio, although it might be close to third with the overdrive on) then turning on overdrive (providing possibly a sixth ratio).

The OTHER definition of "overdrive" is a ratio of less than 1:1. In most 4-speed automatics, fourth gear is the overdrive gear, but there are still only four ratios. Most 5-speed manuals use fifth as the overdrive while some 5-speed automatics are "overdrive" (ratio of less than 1:1) in both 4th and 5th gear. In all of these cases, there is no ADDITIONAL ratio beyond the four or five described in the name of the transmission.

[mute]

There are two things (well...only two I'll try to clear up) being confused here:

There are two different definitions for "overdrive." The old "overdrive" was a separate unit (I know some British cars had this) where certain gears (usually third and fourth) can have another ratio multiplied in. For example,  you could shift from first to second to third then engage overdrive (making a fourth ratio) then to fourth (turning off overdrive possibly gives you a fifth ratio, although it might be close to third with the overdrive on) then turning on overdrive (providing possibly a sixth ratio).

The OTHER definition of "overdrive" is a ratio of less than 1:1. In most 4-speed automatics, fourth gear is the overdrive gear, but there are still only four ratios. Most 5-speed manuals use fifth as the overdrive while some 5-speed automatics are "overdrive" (ratio of less than 1:1) in both 4th and 5th gear. In all of these cases, there is no ADDITIONAL ratio beyond the four or five described in the name of the transmission.

178358[/snapback]

so that means it essentially shifts into the gear twice right? how was i wrong about that?

[Cory Wolfe]

"Acts as a fifth gear?" The transmission has four ratios...and the "overdrive" is the fourth. You may be feeling the torque converter.

178159[/snapback]

I was just saying that from my perspective. It seems as if it's a fifth gear. It's not the torque converter, as it doesnt happen in any other gear. Sure, there's always the slight increase in rpms upon giving more throttle from the torque converter, but what I am talking about is not that. Literally, I am talking about something that seems like completely different gear. As I said, I can experience a "downshift" into 4th. That's why I confused it as a 5 speed. This is what I feel when I drive it. It took a while to even notice it. So yeah, I think I know more about the car I drive daily than anyone else.

[Hudson]

so that means it essentially shifts into the gear twice right? how was i wrong about that?

Modern overdrive transmissions shift into four or five gears, and none of them "twice." In most modern four-speed automatic transmissions, there are four ratios, and that's it....the "overdrive" is the fourth ratio.

In the old style of overdrive, there was a distinct separate unit which was a gear multiplier. Even in those, you wouldn't shift into any gear "twice" but the output from the transmission would be multiplied by another gear ratio.

[razoredge]

all I can further add is........... Mute and Viper are....................... as in wacked. We just gave you all the information and apparently you can not register what we are talking about. So best thing to do is continue to tell everyone you have that one extre gear and furthermore becasue it shifts twice into each gear you really have like 4 extre..............yea, thats what Id do....................

[Cory Wolfe]

all I can further add is........... Mute and Viper are....................... as in wacked. We just gave you all the information and apparently you can not register what we are talking about. So best thing to do is continue to tell everyone you have that one extre gear and furthermore becasue it shifts twice into each gear you really have like 4 extre..............yea, thats what Id do....................

178571[/snapback]

Have you ever driven a Mazda Millenia? Didn't think so. I'm not saying it has an extra gear. Re-read my last post over and over until you understand anything I said. I see the good ol' Razor is back.

[razoredge]

Have you ever driven a Mazda Millenia? Didn't think so. I'm not saying it has an extra gear. Re-read my last post over and over until you understand anything I said. I see the good ol' Razor is back.

178574[/snapback]

Your not that deep dude, you didnt say anything except to confirm that is was torque converter lockup yet still deny it. Drive a Millenia...............whatfo ? Oh I know, so I get to feel that extra special one of a kind transmission.....................

Now to once again be serious

Its torque convertor lock up and unlock nothing GM hasnt had since the early eighties. We always get guys poping up at various forums that do not understand torque converter lockup and insist they have 5 sp trannys. Do you understand torque converter lockup ? If so we would not have had to work so hard to try to explain something to someone that doesnt want to hear about it.

[FAPTurbo]

Thread... so... totally... hijacked...

This is awesome.

[AAS]

I can back-up BV's story... our '92 Bonneville felt like it did the exact same thing. I would feel it shift through the gears 1-4, then the RPM's would drop again. Hence the feeling of an "extra" gear. I always thought it was cool, as if the car was a "5 speed"...

Anyway... My buddy and I always figured it had something to do with the torque converter. Thanks for those of you who gave some insight into exactly what it is.

[NOS2006]

I can back-up BV's story... our '92 Bonneville felt like it did the exact same thing.  I would feel it shift through the gears 1-4, then the RPM's would drop again.  Hence the feeling of an "extra" gear.  I always thought it was cool, as if the car was a "5 speed"...

Anyway... My buddy and I always figured it had something to do with the torque converter.  Thanks for those of you who gave some insight into exactly what it is.

178630[/snapback]

It's just the torque converter kickin' in. Modern technology, ya know?

[razoredge]

It's just the torque converter kickin' in. Modern technology, ya know?

178638[/snapback]

Mistated, should say

torque converter lock up kicking in and/or out.

Torque convertor kicks in when you come off idle or even put it in gear depending on how you want to look at it, and thats why you begin moving. I know you know this but I'm trying to avoid others from misunderstanding.

[Sixty8panther]

Wait... I don't get it.

Is this for people who are PROUD of owning a FWD car?

Oh, wait. I gottcha. This is like C&G's version of the

special olympics, everyone gets a prize. How cute.

[FAPTurbo]

The RWD mafia pretty much got all its members in 5 pages and yet this discusson has devolved into an argument over BV's "5 speed automatic" transmissioned Mazda Milennia...

[NOS2006]

Wait... I don't get it.

Is this for people who are PROUD of owning a FWD car?

Oh, wait. I gottcha.    This is like C&G's version of the

special olympics, everyone gets a prize. How cute. 

178719[/snapback]

[mute]

well this thread may be hijacked but i think for the better

sorry i am "wacked" and "can not register what we are talking about."

i am a 17 yr old kid that has never had the oppurtunity to do anything but plug a car in and change oil and air filters . . . im sorry that your years of life beyond mine have caused you to gather more information and intelligence. in the future ill try to admit freely that i am "wacked" and too stupid to register what your saying

i do however i beleive understand that i do not know enough about the modern or otherwise automatic or otherwise transmission to try to explain anything or try to show knowledge which is why i ask questions . . . sorry my questions seem dumb to you but i cannot know and understand what has never been fully explained to me

and im sorry if i dont think its very becoming at your age to insult the intelligence of a kid who asks you a question razor . . . or for that matter to insult the intelligence of a child at all for you and the select few who make a habit out of it

and thank you hudson for trying to explain however breifly

Edited August 11, 2006 by mute

[FAPTurbo]

Having read over the past couple pages... maybe it's safe to say that this thread gets locked and the FWD mafia have a second recruiting thread...

Calling people wacked isn't exactly the camaderie that I though C&G stood for.

[mute]

Having read over the past couple pages... maybe it's safe to say that this thread gets locked and the FWD mafia have a second recruiting thread...

Calling people wacked isn't exactly the camaderie that I though C&G stood for.

178737[/snapback]

im not sure if your disagreeing or agreeing with me

. . . since i am kind of tired since i usually only post around this time . . . i work throught the entire day . . .

but i do think that this thread should be closed tho i would still like to be explained at least a little bit of how this overdrive works at least to confirm what ive heard

[NOS2006]

Mute, don't call yourself a kid, dude. You can be tried as an adult in a court of law; kids can't.

Next time, if you don't know something either ask or look it up prior to posting about it. That's all.

[mute]

Mute, don't call yourself a kid, dude. You can be tried as an adult in a court of law; kids can't.

Next time, if you don't know something either ask or look it up prior to posting about it. That's all.

178739[/snapback]

i am a child by court of law unless i am tried for a crime that is deemed only commitable by an adult that at least i know

and im sorry if this is my way of asking . . . i tried to explain what i have been told and i admitted it was not correct . . . i also asked to be corrected

[NOS2006]

i also asked to be corrected

178741[/snapback]

Some people, like BV, consider a "correcting" only alright via a naughty spanking or kinky beating. Is that how you'd like to be corrected?

Alright, I might as well stop posting in this thread.

[mute]

Some people, like BV, consider a "correcting" only alright via a naughty spanking or kinky beating. Is that how you'd like to be corrected?

Alright, I might as well stop posting in this thread.

178745[/snapback]

might as well . . . its hard to type and spank

[Cory Wolfe]

Your not that deep dude, you didnt say anything except to confirm that is was torque converter lockup yet still deny it. Drive a Millenia...............whatfo ? Oh I know, so I get to feel that extra special one of a kind transmission.....................

Now to once again be serious

Its torque convertor lock up and unlock nothing GM hasnt had since the early eighties. We always get guys poping up at various forums that do not understand torque converter lockup and insist they have 5 sp trannys. Do you understand torque converter lockup ? If so we would not have had to work so hard to try to explain something to someone that doesnt want to hear about it.

178626[/snapback]

Razor, you're such an ass about things... it's no wonder you were suspended from C&G.

Mistated, should say

torque converter lock up kicking in and/or out.

Torque convertor kicks in when you come off idle or even put it in gear depending on how you want to look at it, and thats why you begin moving. I know you know this but I'm trying to avoid others from misunderstanding.

178671[/snapback]

Razor, I know how a torque convertor works and I know what my transmission does. The 4spd in our Blazer didn't do it. The 4spd in our Grand Am didn't do it. The 4spd in my grandma's Cobalt doesn't do it. Any car I've driven with a 4spd auto hasn't done what my Millenia's does. Explain it. I'm not unwilling to hear about or understand, you're just being an outright ass and immature about it. You're the one who isn't willing to listen just because I'm trying to tell you about something I feel that isn't what you're describing.

Wait... I don't get it.

Is this for people who are PROUD of owning a FWD car?

Oh, wait. I gottcha.    This is like C&G's version of the

special olympics, everyone gets a prize. How cute. 

178719[/snapback]

No... this is for people who enjoy their FWD cars, beyond their preferences.

Some people, like BV, consider a "correcting" only alright via a naughty spanking or kinky beating. Is that how you'd like to be corrected?

Alright, I might as well stop posting in this thread.

178745[/snapback]

Hmm...

[Flybrian]

Guys, lets chill out here...Razor and BV...you guys know the situation.

[speedy_2]

Is it just me or has this thread been hijacked to the max?! Did the RWDM get this much crap? I say this thread should be deleted and someone make a new one.

Edited August 11, 2006 by speedy_2

[Cory Wolfe]

Is it just me or has this thread been hijacked to the max?!  Did the RWDM get this much crap? I say this thread should be deleted and someone make a new one.

178791[/snapback]

Yes, and first person to take it off topic gets banned.

[NOS2006]

Did the RWDM get this much crap?

178791[/snapback]

Nope. There's a good reason for it. :AH-HA_wink:

[speedy_2]

Nope. There's a good reason for it. :AH-HA_wink:

178795[/snapback]

I highly doubt there's a good reason to hijack any thread if it means no harm.

[NOS2006]

I highly doubt there's a good reason to hijack any thread if it means no harm. 

178813[/snapback]

Well, in the instance of this thread, some people said some stupid comments and pretty much got ridiculed for it. Then, the stupidity continued, making this a

[mute]

Well, in the instance of this thread, some people said some stupid comments and pretty much got ridiculed for it. Then, the stupidity continued, making this a 

178815[/snapback]

thank you frank for again pointing out my own and BV's "stupid comments" and "stupidity" . . . at least you got the ridiculed part nice

i said what i said in an effort to help explain as it was once explained to me as i have said . . . i have never opened up a tranny and looked at the gears or done the same with a torque converter so im not familiar with either . . . i merely offered any information i had and asked that in the case that it was misinformation be corrected . . . i said myself that misinformation can be harmful and is never helpful . . . man i guess that was stupid to say huh frank?

[Satty]

weiner

[capriceman]

well it was RWD poking jokes a FWD then all hell broke lose about Autos.

[razoredge]

Thanks Capriceman for being able to see what happened. It was not jacked, at least by me. I was trying to help people understand something they themselves had started, in fact ya'll could blame it on Viper & Satty if you paid attention since the beginning. Not that I do blame anyone, I didnt care. I was only trying to clarify things and yes, did get frustrated. I used the word "wacked" in jest and said it because the emoticon I used says "stupid" and I did not feel like calling anyone stupid. If you look you will see after that paragraph I said OK seriously or something similar. I said wacked meaning "crazy" for what the two kept saying and for refusing to absorb what I worked so hard to further explain from what Hudson posted. I see BV still does not want to understand, there is nothing more I can do. Everyone knows I will meet ass with ass when I cant get through, that is not an insult BTW. I know Im an ass and much worse...............I also know no one else here is....... ? Like I say toughen up, I wouldnt take the time to try to help or explain something if I didnt care.

I was not nor ever threatened to be suspended. I did get in trouble once for pushing the envelope toward someone that was also pushing very hard, it took along time before I finally snapped, I actually think I took an amazing amount, before I did. I do have a 20% warning rate since then, That was a long long time ago.

Closing the thread because I tried very hard to explain something and others tried very hard to deny it, would be silly and a sure sign of weakness. Geeze toughen up guys and try to learn something. Should we have just let it go and give misinformation the chance to be further passed around. Im always willing to learn when someone has something to offer.

You could also notice that much of the transmission dialog that occured in this "hijacked" thread did cover FWD/RWD topics. Glad I could help..........

[76ChevyTrucker]

I'm not going to get in the middle of this one. I'm an RDM member, and I welcome the competition of the FDM members in anything. Good luck y'all, transmissions, engines, CV axles and all.

[Sixty8panther]

I'm an RDM member, and I welcome the competition of the FDM members in anything.  Good luck y'all, transmissions, engines, CV axles and all.

179221[/snapback]

Nothing like having to replace a component in a FWD car and

wasting 3.75 hours of your time when about 20 minutes

would have sufficed if the car was RWD.

[Flybrian]

Nothing like having to replace a component in a FWD car and

wasting 3.75 hours of your time when about 20 minutes

would have sufficed if the car was RWD.

179552[/snapback]

Are you going leave a note attesting to such on my car?

[razoredge]

Yep...........you have to be a real "wrench savvy enthousiast" to R&R some items on some FWD's. As for transaxle stuff on say a Corvette I have no idea. I bet a rear engined/transaxle Porsche is great joy. Then the mid engined cars...............oh boy! None of which are enthousiast cars, no doubt. My Alpine was a 3 act trick to R&R a starter, again not an enthousiast car, no doubt. THe brake & fuel lines on my early 70's GM B bodies are so tucked up into the frame its nearly impossible to "restore" them without lifting body off frame (thats BOF BTW). Again not an enthousiast car. What an ordeal to R&R head and timing chain on my old RWD Datsun, again not an enthousiast car.

Its a gawd awful horrible world out there, so many hard core problems that need to be addressed in the auto enthousiast world. Im gonna go put a huge sign up on my front lawn

Cars are a big piece of $h!

and of course there would be no truth in that

[Cory Wolfe]

Thanks Capriceman for being able to see what happened. It was not jacked, at least by me. I was trying to help people understand something they themselves had started, in fact ya'll could blame it on Viper & Satty if you paid attention since the beginning. Not that I do blame anyone, I didnt care. I was only trying to clarify things and yes, did get frustrated. I used the word "wacked" in jest and said it because the emoticon I used says "stupid" and I did not feel like calling anyone stupid. If you look you will see after that paragraph I said OK seriously or something similar. I said wacked meaning "crazy" for what the two kept saying and for refusing to absorb what I worked so hard to further explain from what Hudson posted. I see BV still does not want to understand, there is nothing more I can do. Everyone knows I will meet ass with ass when I cant get through, that is not an insult BTW. I know Im an ass and much worse...............I also know no one else here is....... ?  Like I say toughen up, I wouldnt take the time to try to help or explain something if I didnt care.

Closing the thread because I tried very hard to explain something and others tried very hard to deny it, would be silly and a sure sign of weakness. Geeze toughen up guys and try to learn something. Should we have just let it go and give misinformation the chance to be further passed around. Im always willing to learn when someone has something to offer.

179217[/snapback]

Heh... I'm still not trying to not understand. It's just you were explaining it like an ass and not giving examples of what I've said. The thing that kept screwing with me was how my Millenia is the only car I've driven to do such a thing. But yeah, if you would have explained it like a civil person, like Hudson and later on NOS privately, instead of being an ass about, I would have given you more of a chance. So yeah, I understand now thanks to NOS.

Anywho... getting back to the FDM... Come on guys... If you have a FWD vehicle you can join, even if you're in RDM. What FWD vehicle doesn't matter... Even if it's a Yugo. We need mafia members!!!

[Sixty8panther]

Are you going leave a note attesting to such on my car?

179559[/snapback]

So long as you don't park your car on the lawn of the next

Concours d'Elegance between a Dual Cowl Phaeton

Deusenberg & a Pierce Arrow Roadster I will not so much

as look at it, never mind write notes.

[Satty]

Bump, cause I want to start a Hybrid Mafia, but I'm pretty sure there are no other eligible members here.

[Blake Noble]

The Cutlass is a hybrid: it burns both gas and rubber.

[Cory Wolfe]

Hah... What an interesting thread to revive. I don't think some people understood this wasn't a serious effort.

[gm4life]

The Cutlass is a hybrid: it burns both gas and rubber.

So is my Bonneville with the traction control off.

[Sixty8panther]

Bump, cause I want to start a Hybrid Mafia, but I'm pretty sure there are no other eligible members here.

no one else.... at least no one that lacks a man-gina.

[Lamar]

So is my Bonneville with the traction control off.

Don't give me ideas.

[Satty]

no one else.... at least no one that lacks a man-gina.

Sounds like someone had tech-envy. Maybe I'll buy a Highlander Hybrid so we can have our own Hybrid Mafia meetings in my garage.

[Camino LS6]

Sounds like someone had tech-envy. Maybe I'll buy a Highlander Hybrid so we can have our own Hybrid Mafia meetings in my garage.

A circle jerk?