TTAC Reviews Impala LS

[Bimmer325]

Chevrolet Impala LS

By Frank Williams

July 20th, 2006

If you want to judge a restaurant, don’t order the chef’s specialty. Go for the hamburger or the omelet. If the man in the funny hat prepares these prosaic dishes with the same passion he puts into his Suprème de Turbot Rôti aux Asperges Vertes et à l'Ail en Chemise, you have a winner. The same applies to cars. If you want to judge an automaker’s prowess, check their basic models. Scope the ones with standard engines and base interiors that hide in the back of the lots. A few miles behind the wheel tells you more about the manufacturer’s passion for product than anything their spinmongers could ever publish. Which brings us to the Impala LS.

[...Read More]

[balthazar]

>>"Of course, this deficiency is something of an American tradition: the Impala is made by the same company that continued selling two-speed Powerglide automatics into the 70’s, when others had moved on to three and four-speed designs."<<

'Of course... the Impala is made by the same company that introduced the automatic transmission, that clever device that was since emulated by every other vehicle manufacturer known to man.

Of course, General Motor's HydraMatic Division offered 4-sped autos in the '50s and '60s, before anyone else bothered beyond 2-speeds.

Of course Chevy offered not only a 2-spd auto, but 3- and 4-spd autos while nearly every other manufacturer offered but one (which equates to no option), plus 3-, 4- and 5-spd manuals.

[CARBIZ]

Frank, Toyota called and your check is already in the mail.

This guy is such an a-hole, I don't know where to begin...

First: "higher priced model that includes the console." Listen, you waste of protoplasm, you can get the 6 passenger seating in an LTZ with leather and the 3.9 engine, something you would have discovered if you'd done ANY research. It has nothing to do with console or no console - some people prefer NOT to have the console and for NO charge, Chevy will let YOU choose. F@#k. Not everything from the '60s/'70s was bad. Some people prefer the column shift. The woodgrain or brushed metal look is also no charge.

Second: Business Fleet Magazine's car of the year. Well, I'd think so: you can get the Impala in either a taxi or police package with beefier seats, springs, etc. Again, this guy's import roots are showing. Frankly, frank your contempt for anything American is barely in check. So much for unbiased journalism.

As mentioned above, the tranny argument is a non-starter. Just see the fun Toyota is having with their 6 spd auto. GM has the best automatic and if the car can go 740 km on a tank of gas (as I proved recently) F##k the 5 spd!

This guy is a jerk. The Truth About Cars is a propaganda rag for Japan Inc.

[The O.C.]

Frank, Toyota called and your check is already in the mail.

  This guy is such an a-hole, I don't know where to begin...

  First:  "higher priced model that includes the console."  Listen, you waste of protoplasm, you can get the 6 passenger seating in an LTZ with leather and the 3.9 engine, something you would have discovered if you'd done ANY research.  It has nothing to do with console or no console - some people prefer NOT to have the console and for NO charge, Chevy will let YOU choose.  F@#k.  Not everything from the '60s/'70s was bad.  Some people prefer the column shift.  The woodgrain or brushed metal look is also no charge. 

  Second:  Business Fleet Magazine's car of the year.  Well, I'd think so: you can get the Impala in either a taxi or police package with beefier seats, springs, etc.  Again, this guy's import roots are showing.  Frankly, frank your contempt for anything American is barely in check.  So much for unbiased journalism.

  As mentioned above, the tranny argument is a non-starter.  Just see the fun Toyota is having with their 6 spd auto.  GM has the best automatic and if the car can go 740 km on a tank of gas (as I proved recently) F##k the 5 spd!

  This guy is a jerk.  The Truth About Cars is a propaganda rag for Japan Inc.

169326[/snapback]

Hmmm....

I thought the article was spot-on. It spelled out quite accurately how the Impala is a prime example of what's wrong with GM today.

Bad car?

Nah...

But totally devoid of any passion for design, engineering, or execution.

[loki]

Frank, Toyota called and your check is already in the mail.

  This guy is such an a-hole, I don't know where to begin...

  First:  "higher priced model that includes the console."  Listen, you waste of protoplasm, you can get the 6 passenger seating in an LTZ with leather and the 3.9 engine, something you would have discovered if you'd done ANY research.  It has nothing to do with console or no console - some people prefer NOT to have the console and for NO charge, Chevy will let YOU choose.  F@#k.  Not everything from the '60s/'70s was bad.  Some people prefer the column shift.  The woodgrain or brushed metal look is also no charge. 

  Second:  Business Fleet Magazine's car of the year.  Well, I'd think so: you can get the Impala in either a taxi or police package with beefier seats, springs, etc.  Again, this guy's import roots are showing.  Frankly, frank your contempt for anything American is barely in check.  So much for unbiased journalism.

  As mentioned above, the tranny argument is a non-starter.  Just see the fun Toyota is having with their 6 spd auto.  GM has the best automatic and if the car can go 740 km on a tank of gas (as I proved recently) F##k the 5 spd!

  This guy is a jerk.  The Truth About Cars is a propaganda rag for Japan Inc.

169326[/snapback]

if you read his replies, he said he was a car salesman for quite some time, starting w/ datsun, and goes on to saying that every car has problems, jap cars are no better than american no better than "craut" cars as far as things you can nit pick and such...

[chevelle454]

But totally devoid of any passion for design, engineering, or execution.

169605[/snapback]

That sounds like any Toyota POS ever made

[Frank Williams]

My, my, my... where to start!

Of course... the Impala is made by the same company that introduced the automatic transmission

That's odd... all the research I did showed OLDSMOBILE introduced the auto tranny, not Chevrolet.

Of course, General Motor's HydraMatic Division offered 4-sped autos in the '50s and '60s, before anyone else bothered beyond 2-speeds.

Chevrolet didn't offer any automatic but the 2-speed Powerglide until 1965 when it first offered the 3-speed TurboHydramatic.

Of course Chevy offered not only a 2-spd auto, but 3- and 4-spd autos while nearly every other manufacturer offered but one (which equates to no option), plus 3-, 4- and 5-spd manuals.

Chevy didn't offer a 3-speed auto until 1965. Plymouth offered one in 1956 (Torqueflite) and Ford offered one in 1958 (Cruise-O-Matic).

Frank, Toyota called and your check is already in the mail.

Hmmm... I guess they cancelled it after my article taking them to task for their recent recalls and quality problems.

First: "higher priced model that includes the console." Listen, you waste of protoplasm, you can get the 6 passenger seating in an LTZ with leather and the 3.9 engine, something you would have discovered if you'd done ANY research

And if YOU'D bothered to read my review, you'd see my comments were about the LS I reviewed, not the much higher-priced LTZ.

has nothing to do with console or no console - some people prefer NOT to have the console and for NO charge, Chevy will let YOU choose.

You can't choose squat if you buy an LS, as you'd know if YOU'D done any research. As I stated, you CAN NOT get a console on the LS, and you're doomed to looking at a dashboard with a droopy midsection that just screams "You could get a console if you weren't so cheap."

Again, this guy's import roots are showing. Frankly, frank your contempt for anything American is barely in check.

If you'd bothered reading my replies to the comments to my review, you would have seen my daily driver is a (gasp!) CHEVROLET! Maybe you should try reading and comprehending the entire article and comments before you start getting on your jingoistic bandwagon.

If you read his replies, he said he was a car salesman for quite some time, starting w/ datsun, and goes on to saying that every car has problems, jap cars are no better than american no better than "craut" cars as far as things you can nit pick and such...

I'm NOT a car salesman, nor have I ever been one. And none of my replies even hinted that was the case. Sheesh! Don't you people on this forum even read something before you start trashing it?

Edited August 29, 2006 by Frank Williams

[Mr.Krinkle]

My, my, my... where to start!

[ Sheesh!  Don't you people on this forum even read something before you start trashing it?

186424[/snapback]

way to overgeneralize there frankie.

if you are going to challenge peoples criticisms maybe this isnt the best line of work for you.

you should at least have your facts before you start clicking away.

it was oldsmobile, a subsidiary of the gm company.. it was the ealry 40's and it was a 4 speed auto. the first. mopar had one earlier but it wasnt a true auto, more of a semi that hunted between 2 lower and 2 upper gears....the best i can tell

everything else is your opinion, and you are entitled to that...no matter how wrong you may be.

how lazy have journalist become, or at least of the website variety.

[big blue]

I like the Impala for what it is. A nice big FWD sedan ready to swallow cargo and leave occupants with a good amount of stretching room. The LS that he reviewed is pretty basic as I've also sat in it. If you need a no frills, point A to point B basic transportation, the Impala LS is it. Although you could compare it to a 300C, FWD does take precedence in some states.

For me the Impala would be one of my top choices for a big FWD and inexpensive car. The four-speed auto is fine with me, the Impala achieves good gas mileage with the 3.5l V6/4spd tranny combo and granted a 5 or 6 speed would most likely pump out better MPG, but the powertrain is reliable and I value reliability over bragging rights. GM is slowly incorporating 6spd transmissions on their newer cars like the Saturn Aura which I'm sure you are aware of. I'm just waiting for the reliability records to be proven before I make a jump into newly designed transmissions.

I've had enough fun bringing my 02 Accord in for 3 new trannys. None of them had ever broken or left me stranded but they all made weird whining noises or would shift into gear harshly and the dealership agreed that my car would need new ones. I still love the car though as I think its a sleek coupe for the money but now you can see why I prefer time tested powertrains over new ones.

In the end however, regular customers will look at the sticker on a car, see how many cyl the engine has, glance at the MPG numbers, and not give a second look at whether the transmission is a 4, 5, or 6 speed, as long as its good they'll buy it.

Edited August 29, 2006 by big blue

[Frank Williams]

you should at least have your facts before you start clicking away.

Show me one thing I've said that was inaccurate. That is, that you can prove is inaccurate with FACTS.

it was oldsmobile, a subsidiary of the gm company.. .

Which is exactly what I said. "OLDSMOBILE introduced the auto tranny, not Chevrolet." And I never indicated how many speeds it had.

it was the ealry 40's and it was a 4 speed auto.

Again, I never said different. OLDSMOBILE had the HydraMatic. Chevy had the POWERGLIDE, a 2-speed automatic transmission they introduced in the early 50s and offered all the way into the 70s. They continued to offer it even after they started offering the 3-speed THM and well after anyone else stopped making a 2-speed.

Yet another "ready, fire, aim" response from someone who can't be bothered to research the facts.

Edited August 29, 2006 by Frank Williams

[Flybrian]

I'm NOT a car salesman, nor have I ever been one.  And none of my replies even hinted that was the case.  Sheesh!  Don't you people on this forum even read something before you start trashing it?

186424[/snapback]

If you decided to join and participate in this forum and answer questions and criticisms about your reviews, I would appreciate it if you don't bash the entire forum based on a rash generalization. That hurts your credibility more than you know.

[Newbiewar]

My, my, my... where to start!

Of course... the Impala is made by the same company that introduced the automatic transmission

That's odd... all the research I did showed OLDSMOBILE introduced the auto tranny, not Chevrolet.

Of course, General Motor's HydraMatic Division offered 4-sped autos in the '50s and '60s, before anyone else bothered beyond 2-speeds.

Chevrolet didn't offer any automatic but the 2-speed Powerglide until 1965 when it first offered the 3-speed TurboHydramatic.

Of course Chevy offered not only a 2-spd auto, but 3- and 4-spd autos while nearly every other manufacturer offered but one (which equates to no option), plus 3-, 4- and 5-spd manuals.

Chevy didn't offer a 3-speed auto until 1965.  Plymouth offered one in 1956 (Torqueflite) and Ford offered one in 1958 (Cruise-O-Matic). 

Frank, Toyota called and your check is already in the mail.

Hmmm... I guess they cancelled it after my article taking them to task for their recent recalls and quality problems.

First: "higher priced model that includes the console." Listen, you waste of protoplasm, you can get the 6 passenger seating in an LTZ with leather and the 3.9 engine, something you would have discovered if you'd done ANY research

And if YOU'D bothered to read my review, you'd see my comments were about the LS I reviewed, not the much higher-priced LTZ. 

has nothing to do with console or no console - some people prefer NOT to have the console and for NO charge, Chevy will let YOU choose.

You can't choose squat if you buy an LS, as you'd know if YOU'D done any research.  As I stated, you CAN NOT get a console on the LS, and you're doomed to looking at a dashboard with a droopy midsection that just screams "You could get a console if you weren't so cheap."

Again, this guy's import roots are showing. Frankly, frank your contempt for anything American is barely in check.

If you'd bothered reading my replies to the comments to my review, you would have seen my daily driver is a (gasp!) CHEVROLET!  Maybe you should try reading and comprehending the entire article and comments before you start getting on your jingoistic bandwagon.

If you read his replies, he said he was a car salesman for quite some time, starting w/ datsun, and goes on to saying that every car has problems, jap cars are no better than american no better than "craut" cars as far as things you can nit pick and such...

I'm NOT a car salesman, nor have I ever been one.  And none of my replies even hinted that was the case.  Sheesh!  Don't you people on this forum even read something before you start trashing it?

186424[/snapback]

no offense frank... i didnt take the time to read your article... but... we are generally tired of journalists not even giving the general its chance....

Personnally I sell Chevys every day... from Aveo's to Corvettes, and from Equinoxes to Suburban... from small to big... and i can tell you... the impala is one of my favorite... the competition has nothing on it in my opinion... camry accord altima...

okay now i've taken the time to read it... and while the LS is plain... you neglected to mention that with a dead battery the over sized trunk remains locked... (one thing i dont like about electric release & no folding seats on the LS

IMHO the camry accord and altima have an extremely bland interior with a confused design... on the dash, as well as less ergonomic seating...

Keep in mind i drive 2004s & 2005's every day... so i know which i appreciate the best...

and to tell you the truth my favorite sedan to drive is an 05 impala... while the 2006's are nicer... i have less experiance driving those because they arent as common as previous rentals as they previosly were

[Sajeev Mehta]

If you decided to join and participate in this forum and answer questions and criticisms about your reviews, I would appreciate it if you don't bash the entire forum based on a rash generalization. That hurts your credibility more than you know.

186462[/snapback]

That's true, we are guests in your forum. But C&G is no stranger to rash generalizations: as this Pro-Japan Camry basher with no journalistic integrity and the mind of a 12 year old drowned in curry sauce has learned.

It's all good provided we are all having fun.

[Mr.Krinkle]

you should at least have your facts before you start clicking away.

Show me one thing I've said that was inaccurate. That is, that you can prove is inaccurate with FACTS.

im not gonna get bogged down in semantics. youre the onbe that went down this road. no one ever said chevy came up with it first. try to keep up with things around here.

with your writing skills you are probably better served elsewhere.

now as far as children and curry sauce, maybe bbbq sauce would be more apt or appropriate, whtever it is, provided its all in good fun. :AH-HA_wink:

[Mr.Krinkle]

you should at least have your facts before you start clicking away.

Show me one thing I've said that was inaccurate.  That is, that you can prove is inaccurate with FACTS.

it was oldsmobile, a subsidiary of the gm company.. .

Which is exactly what I said.  "OLDSMOBILE introduced the auto tranny, not Chevrolet."    And I never indicated how many speeds it had.

it was the ealry 40's and it was a 4 speed auto.

Again, I never said different.  OLDSMOBILE had the HydraMatic.  Chevy had the POWERGLIDE, a 2-speed automatic transmission they introduced in the early 50s and offered all the way into the 70s.  They continued to offer it even after they started offering the 3-speed THM and well after anyone else stopped making a 2-speed.

Yet another "ready, fire, aim" response from someone who can't be bothered to research the facts.

186460[/snapback]

[Frank Williams]

no one ever said chevy came up with it first. try to keep up with things around here

Funny, I was just thinking the same thing - try to keep up. I believe the statement that kicked this all off was "the Impala is made by the same company that introduced the automatic transmission." I didn't know Oldsmobile ever built an Impala (or that they still do). If this is so, then I apologize for my ignorance.

Edited August 29, 2006 by Frank Williams

[Drew Dowdell]

no one ever said chevy came up with it first. try to keep up with things around here

Funny,  I was just thinking the same thing - try to keep up.  I believe the statement that kicked this all off was "the Impala is made by the same company that introduced the automatic transmission."  I didn't know Oldsmobile ever built an Impala (or that they still do).  If this is so, then I apologize for my ignorance.

186484[/snapback]

semantics but....

The company that introduced the automatic transmission was GM. Oldsmobile was just the division that did the work.

Oldsmobile hasn't been a seperate company since, what... 1908?

[loki]

our family had an 06 ls for acouple days when a car was getting repaired...

my own take... just somethings i noticed driving it for maybe 40 mins total.

3.5 is gutless in 4th at 55mph... yes i know, what do i expect, it was turning maybe 1500rpms... just the shift into 3rd seemed so abrupt (on back road highways that are hilly). acceleration is "brisk" though when you're on at least 1/2 throttle from a stop. maybe the 3.9 would help w/ my first comment.

i'm not really used to such firm cloth seats...prolly not so bad on long drives... just something one would have to get used to or break in really quickly lol

i do wish gm would start to seperate the computer menus from the stereos... so it wouldn't be such a pain for aftermarket installs.

overall quality seemed good.

[buyacargetacheck]

No wonder auto journalists get no respect. And this guy isn't even a real journalist - just one of Bob "GM Death Watch 8000" Farago's up-and-coming minions.

Firstly, please ditch the frickin cooking metaphors. Jeez, Linda Merrymood (or whatever her name was) was doing this back in the 80s at Car and Driver. And every dimwitted Audi-sucking twit car magazine writer has been copying it since. Canadian Driver is less offensive in this regard (although not totally innocent).

Why did GM’s designers settle on an update of a late-90’s Chevy Lumina? That design defined generic in 1998. Park the Impala next to a Dodge Charger or a new Camry and the Chevy disappears.

This doesn't seem to bother the Impala's satisfied customers one bit. And gold-standard Charger is a sales disappointment - the "new Lumina" outsells it 2.5 to 1. Maybe more people think the Impala looks better? Or maybe it's the Charger's slathered-in-plastic interior?

Which bring brings me to the Impala's interior. What is so uncomfortable and uninviting about the Impala? Compared to what? An Audi A6? Is the drab Accord or Altima your idea of inviting? As a Honda owner, I can tell you that nothing so hard as a Honda perch makes your legs fall asleep faster. And GM's fake wood, at this price point, is at least as believable as any other manufacturer's. And get f___ real -- who really thinks the wood is real to begin with? Do they even care? Next thing we'll hear from the auto journalist wannabe-brain trust is that the cowhide grain on GM dashboards is fake and that the car is no good because it doesn't have real leather for a dash covering!!!

The trunk is roomy enough to hold all your sales charts, sample cases, rolling luggage and whiskey bottles. And that’s about it.

What did you expect it to do? Come complete with pop-up strippers?

Don’t even ask for wheels larger than 16”

Tires larger than that often come at a ride comfort disadvantage, and the replacements are more expensive. See, GM realizes that a lot of buyers prefer cost savings down the road and comfort at the expense of skidpad (which I don't have in my neighborhood) results.

It handles the changes well enough, but it’s not exactly what you’d call a paragon of cog swapping precision.

What is with this fetish that you need more than 4 speeds in an automatic just for the sake of having more gears? Could you define "cog swapping precision?" I guess being one of the smoothest automatics on the planet at any price is not enough. Remember, BMW bought automatics from GM, not the other way around.

Unfortunately, a pound of chopped ground round is still a burger when it goes downtown.

Yeah, next time I'll "upgrade" to a 4-cylinder Accord. And don't try to tell me that it's a high quality 4 cylinder. Sorry Buck, I've owned one and I can tell you that they shake the steering column at idle and get worse with age. Sorry, not to take anything away from the Accord, but the Impala in its basic trims is an excellent value that also happens to drive down the road with a little less effort than a price-comparable 4-cylinder Camry, Accord or Altima.

By the way, since you guys at TTAC aren't in the same elite league as Yates, Davis, Csere, and you probably actually have to buy your own iron, what do you drive (and if you have a wife and minor kids what do they drive)?

Edited August 29, 2006 by buyacargetacheck

[cmattson]

Perhaps GM was marketing to people that want nothing more than tried-and-true transportation? If you don't think there isn't a market for vanilla, appliance-like transportation then you haven't looked at Camry sales lately. GM doesn't need to make this car be the best handling, best, braking, or best accelerating - that's simply not it's role. As it is, using just the LS model to garner your conclusions is wholeheartedly faulty premise. I dare guess that the SS model offers superior handling and/or acceleration than you'd ever find in a stock Toyota Camry or Honda Accord.

What loses me is this: Frank (if you don't mind using your first name) seems largely more interested in making entertainment than backing up his observations with reasonable comparisons. Take a look at the over-the-top powerglide comment. While I'd agree that GM has a better transmission available (the family of new 6speeds) and I'd most certainly agree that GM has been very slow in getting the thing to market, you've completely lost all credibility bringing up a transmission that was introduced back in 1950. WTF does that belong in an "attempted review" about a 2006 automobile. I don't recall having every read an article that brings up Honda's 900cc motorcycle engines (used in the earliest edition Civics) when talking about Honda's latest creations. That just screams to me that you are working too hard to sensationalize. As it is, the powerglide was used into early 1970.. but the Turbohydramatic was featured in the 1965 model year -- so it's not quite the picture you are attempting to paint.

[GMman]

I didn't read the article and I'm not going to. I know what it says. The same thing most car mags say about AMERICAN cars. Some folks just don't understand that the Impala does EXACTLY what it is designed to do and it does it very well. Anybody who thinks a camry is better because it has more gears is dumber than the coffee can exhaust on the car they drive.

The Impala is a relatively inexpensive, good looking, efficient, mid size car.

And Japan wouldn't know how to build a toaster if it wasn't for AMERICA.

[cmattson]

Show me one thing I've said that was inaccurate.  That is, that you can prove is inaccurate with FACTS.

Adequate steering, handling and braking for avoiding accidents.  Adequate sound insulation to keep road noise from interfering with the adequate AM/FM radio.  After a few miles driving– I mean “operating” the Impala, you begin to manipulate the controls with all the emotional engagement you normally lavish upon your toaster.  You find yourself wondering if the engineers who designed the Impala ever drove a base-model Accord or Camry– of any vintage.

Well Frank, here's your stats:

0-60:

Impala=6.4s

Camry=6.5s

Accord=7.6s

Slalom:

Camry=60.5mph

Impala=62.6mph

Accord=64.6mph

Noise @ Idle

Impala=44.5db

Accord=46.5db

Camry=46.5db

Noise @ full throttle

Impala=73.7db

Camry=73.9db

Accord=74.7db

Noise @ 70mph

Impala=68.0db

Accord=70.0db

Camry=70.0db

Braking (as rated by Edmunds)

Camry=Excellent

Impala=Good

Accord=Poor

Impala was a 1st place finisher in 4 categories & a 2nd place finisher in the remaining 2 categories (it never finished last; unlike the Camry & Accord). I'm willing to bet those GM engineers did their job. It's too bad that wannabe-reviewers like yourself can't be objective enough to realize it.

Unlike yourself, I'll be happy to back myself up with FACTUAL STATISTICS instead of using subjective, misleading OPINIONS:

Camry & Accord:

http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontainers/...0/pageNumber=12

Impala:

http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontainers/...52/pageNumber=5

Seeing how poorly you faired on this exercise, for the sake of your readership, I can only wish you the best of luck on your next "review".

[pow]

Adequate steering, handling and braking for avoiding accidents.  Adequate sound insulation to keep road noise from interfering with the adequate AM/FM radio.  After a few miles driving– I mean “operating” the Impala, you begin to manipulate the controls with all the emotional engagement you normally lavish upon your toaster.  You find yourself wondering if the engineers who designed the Impala ever drove a base-model Accord or Camry– of any vintage.

Well Frank, here's your stats:

0-60:

Impala=6.4s

Camry=6.5s

Accord=7.6s

Slalom:

Camry=60.5mph

Impala=62.6mph

Accord=64.6mph

Noise @ Idle

Impala=44.5db

Accord=46.5db

Camry=46.5db

Noise @ full throttle

Impala=73.7db

Camry=73.9db

Accord=74.7db

Noise @ 70mph

Impala=68.0db

Accord=70.0db

Camry=70.0db

Braking (as rated by Edmunds)

Camry=Excellent

Impala=Good

Accord=Poor

Impala was a 1st place finisher in 4 categories & a 2nd place finisher in the remaining 2 categories (it never finished last; unlike the Camry & Accord). I'm willing to bet those GM engineers did their job. It's too bad that wannabe-reviewers like yourself can't be objective enough to realize it.

Unlike yourself, I'll be happy to back myself up with FACTUAL STATISTICS instead of using subjective, misleading OPINIONS:

Camry & Accord:

http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontainers/...0/pageNumber=12

Impala:

http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontainers/...52/pageNumber=5

Seeing how poorly you faired on this exercise, for the sake of your readership, I can only wish you the best of luck on your next "review".

186890[/snapback]

He reviewed the Impala LS, not the 303-hp SS, as articulated in his first paragraph...

"If you want to judge a restaurant, don’t order the chef’s specialty. Go for the hamburger or the omelet. If the man in the funny hat prepares these prosaic dishes with the same passion he puts into his Suprème de Turbot Rôti aux Asperges Vertes et à l'Ail en Chemise, you have a winner. The same applies to cars. If you want to judge an automaker’s prowess, check their basic models. Scope the ones with standard engines and base interiors that hide in the back of the lots. A few miles behind the wheel tells you more about the manufacturer’s passion for product than anything their spinmongers could ever publish. Which brings us to the Impala LS."

Your "factual statistics" are much more misleading than opinions, since, well, you call them "facts."

[cmattson]

So let me get this straight: you get the lowest trim level available, and then bash the heck out of it because it doesn't give you all-world performance? Don't you think it's ridiculous to limit yourself to the base-level trim and then have as your primary criticism that it's just adequate? It's like purchasing a 4cyl and then complaining that it doesn't give you V8-like power. That's complete b.s.

I'd be okay with the criticism if there were no upper-level feature-sets available.. but the author knocks GM engineers "for not doing their job" when the the author purposely chose to limit himself to the lowest-trim level available. I don't think I'm pushing things to far in comparing the top-performance-level Accord/Camry/Impala's together. The author *did* bring the SS into his own review -- taking note to bash GM on putting 303hp to the front wheels (something that must be okay in the Camry - where nearly 270hp is available). I must not have gotten the memo that defines how much hp is too much for FWD duty. When the author brings the SS trim level into the review (for the sole purpose of bashing it), then I think it's fair game to bring it in for comparisons purposes.

As it is, I did provide numbers for the top-performance Accord/Camry/Impala - so my comparison would at least be apples-to-apples. As it is (based on data @ cars.com) the LS/LT trims don't vary from the SS in any area other than 0-60 times.. so dropping the 0-60 times off of there, the Impala STILL does very well against it's competition -- an impression you definately wouldn't get from reading Frank's skewed analysis.

Edited August 30, 2006 by cmattson

[pow]

So let me get this straight:  you get the lowest trim level available, and then bash the heck out of it because it doesn't give you all-world performance?  Don't you think it's ridiculous to limit yourself to the base-level trim and then have as your primary criticism that it's just adequate?  It's like purchasing a 4cyl and then complaining that it doesn't give you V8-like power.  That's complete b.s.

I'd be okay with the criticism if there were no upper-level feature-sets available.. but the author knocks GM engineers "for not doing their job" when the the author purposely chose to limit himself to the lowest-trim level available.  I don't think I'm pushing things to far in comparing the top-performance-level Accord/Camry/Impala's together.  The author *did* bring the SS into his own review -- taking note to bash GM on putting 303hp to the front wheels (something that must be okay in the Camry - where nearly 270hp is available).  I must not have gotten the memo that defines how much hp is too much for FWD duty.  When the author brings the SS trim level into the review (for the sole purpose of bashing it), then I think it's fair game to bring it in for comparisons purposes.

As it is, I did provide numbers for the top-performance Accord/Camry/Impala - so my comparison would at least be apples-to-apples.

186998[/snapback]

Impala SS is a niche high-performance vehicle. A more "apples-to-apples" comparison would be the 233 hp 3.9 LTZ, or even better, the Malibu LTZ.

[CARBIZ]

This guy is an assclown, plain and simple.

Frank, come down to my dealership and I will show you 10 Impala LS WITH the f'ing console you so adore.

As I said earlier: you can get ANY of the Impala models (except the SS) with either the 6 passenger (column shift and fold down armrest) or floor console with console shifter.

YOU NEED TO DO MORE RESEARCH AND STOP WHINING ABOUT THINGS THAT CLEARLY ARE NOT IMPORTANT.

[Flybrian]

Heh. Allright, let's back down off the personal stuff please.

[cmattson]

We'll have to agree to disagree. I think the Impala SS is fair game: the Camry V6 delivers 90% of the horsepower that the SS delivers.

[toyoguy]

Noise @ 70mph

Impala=68.0db

Accord=70.0db

Camry=70.0db

186890[/snapback]

I've driven both Camry and Accord V6's. The Accord is much noisier than the Camry. The Accord is w/o a doubt a noisy car. The Camry is quiet, IMO.

Personally, I found the Camry quiet in the 90-100mph range, I don't find the Accord quiet even at 55mph.

db meters don't tell the whole story. What the human mind registers and what the meter measure are not the same.

[toyoguy]

We'll have to agree to disagree.  I think the Impala SS is fair game: the Camry V6 delivers 90% of the horsepower that the SS delivers.

187087[/snapback]

The Impala SS is delivers performance but lacks fuel economy.

[Flybrian]

I've driven both Camry and Accord V6's...Personally, I found the Camry quiet in the 90-100mph range, I don't find the Accord quiet even at 55mph.

187101[/snapback]

Dear State Troopers...

[enzl]

I think the thread is missing the reviewer's main point:

The W's are compromised...old safety structure robs them of space--despite their casting a larger shadow than the Camry or Accord. Their suspension design is hamstrung by huge overhang and less than optimal weight distribution (especially when hanging a V8 out front.) The compromises extend to almost everything about these cars.

Are Impala's fantastic VALUEs? YES. Are they great product, as compared to class leaders?--I'd argue no.

A 4 cylinder Accord LX is more efficient and has a 'feel' that eludes Chevy & the current Impala. Nothing surprising, as the Chevy has 'baked in' compromise while the Accord exudes a typical, historically Honda base model feel--which, I'm sorry to say, has the Impala beat.

If Chevy didn't agree with my assesment, why would the next Malibu be growing and the future Impala looking like a RWD Charger competitor, rather than a large FWD 500/Montego competitor?

Edited August 31, 2006 by enzl

[GMman]

I'd be okay with the criticism if there were no upper-level feature-sets available.. but the author knocks GM engineers "for not doing their job" when the the author purposely chose to limit himself to the lowest-trim level available.  I don't think I'm pushing things to far in comparing the top-performance-level Accord/Camry/Impala's together.  The author *did* bring the SS into his own review -- taking note to bash GM on putting 303hp to the front wheels (something that must be okay in the Camry - where nearly 270hp is available).  I must not have gotten the memo that defines how much hp is too much for FWD duty.  When the author brings the SS trim level into the review (for the sole purpose of bashing it), then I think it's fair game to bring it in for comparisons purposes.

186998[/snapback]

This is a really good point....that is hard to argue with, because it's so true.

[big blue]

I think the thread is missing the reviewer's main point:

Are Impala's fantastic VALUEs? YES. Are they great product, as compared to class leaders?--I'd argue no.

A 4 cylinder Accord LX is more efficient and has a 'feel' that eludes Chevy & the current Impala. Nothing surprising, as the Chevy has 'baked in' compromise while the Accord exudes a typical, historically Honda base model feel--which, I'm sorry to say, has the Impala beat.

187150[/snapback]

Well those are my feelings on the matter...guess you saved me some work.

[sciguy_0504]

We'll have to agree to disagree.  I think the Impala SS is fair game: the Camry V6 delivers 90% of the horsepower that the SS delivers.

187087[/snapback]

That's more of a positive for the Camry and a negative for the Impala.

[cmattson]

Why do we have to discount the Impala SS because the Camry doesn't have a performance trim level? Seems to me that's a negative against the Camry/Accord. Chevy shouldn't have to apologize for that - and reviewers shouldn't selectively ignore the SS in their "review" for it either. Fact of the matter is that the base Impala gives you more hp - and if you want over-the-top performance, it gives you that too. Chevy has no need to discount any of this... but that's besides the point. I'm refuting the author's "marginal" and "acceptable" descriptions - primarily because they purposely choose to put the blinders on when looking at the entire Impala line.. and as I stated previously.. the author *did* choose to mix in the SS whenever he choose-to.. so why is it fair game for him and not me?

[CARBIZ]

He loses all credibility when there are FACTUAL errors in his report. The rest is more just "piling on" BS.

You guys need to work a day in a dealership and see the pain a client goes through to afford a new vehicle. Not everybody has $30k-35k (in this market) to drop on a new, family sized vehicle.

GM needs to leave the Impala/Malibu as the price leaders and let Buick and Pontiac become the cars for the BMW-wannabees.

It is clear that self-appointed enthusiasts don't like the Impala because of the over hangs (like anybody gives a s**t about that!), push rod engine, etc., but AGAIN lost in the shuffle is the 2-3k price differential with respect to the 4 CYLINDER Accord or Camry and SEVERAL thousand dollar difference against the V-6 models.

Since when was the Impala EVER the class leader anyway? Even when it sold nearly a million units a year, I don't think the Impala was class leading. Good value, sure. Decent looking and handling, of course.

It is important that the Impala does EXACTlY what it does do: decent value, decent packaging, decent ride, decent handling and decent looks. If it can do that AND be cheaper than the competition, then it is a winner.

But it is the constant whining and gnashing of teeth from the usual suspects that gnaws away at GM's market share because nothing GM builds is EVER good enough for them. The sheeple who actually read CR, MT (and this guy, Frank) may even think this is factual and buy an Accord or Camry because they are being told they are better cars.

What if the new Malibu is $3,000 more expensive than the current one because GM gets it "spot on" for guys like Frank. And what if the new Impala is also "market leading," but $5,000 more? Well, then everyone can bitch about the price and in turn this paves the way for Hyundai to make further incursions into the market.

Some people will never be happy until GM and Ford are gone, then they can all pat themselves on the back and say, "See, I was right."

[Sajeev Mehta]

  It is important that the Impala does EXACTlY what it does do:  decent value, decent packaging, decent ride, decent handling and decent looks.  If it can do that AND be cheaper than the competition, then it is a winner."

187373[/snapback]

What is your definition of a winner? Mine is being the best selling car in America, or at least in the top three.

1. Camry

2. Accord

3. Taurus

There were a few years that the Taurus was #1, but its usually the Camry. When was the Lumina or Impala up there? Was it really a success?

Your criteria above is for any family sedan, and right now the Camry fits the bill for the vast majority of this country.

[Flybrian]

Just because everyone buys it doesn't make it the best, just the most accepted. Yes, there is a difference, especially to those who care about the real value and quality of a car.

I would easily rank at least half a dozen cars as 'better' than a 2002-06 Camry, yet for some ungodly reason, it continued to be the sales leader. Even then, even for this 'big' year for the Camry, the Accord still outsold it if you only count retail and not rental fleets, where 12% of Camries were dumped, compared to less than 1% of Accords.

[Sajeev Mehta]

Just because everyone buys it doesn't make it the best, just the most accepted. Yes, there is a difference, especially to those who care about the real value and quality of a car.

187406[/snapback]

Problem is, Toyota does a good (not perfect) job pleasing their customers. And Camrys hold their value better than just about anything on the road. Its a car that works well.

Course I'm not sure why I'm defending them, I don't much care for them. Whatever.

[Drew Dowdell]

What is your definition of a winner?  Mine is being the best selling car in America, or at least in the top three. 

1. Camry

2. Accord

3. Taurus

There were a few years that the Taurus was #1, but its usually the Camry.  When was the Lumina or Impala up there?  Was it really a success? 

Your criteria above is for any family sedan, and right now the Camry fits the bill for the vast majority of this country.

187401[/snapback]

American Idol is *clearly* the best T.V. show </sarcasm>

I'm curious

What are the totals?

Camry + Solara + ES =

Impala + Monte Carlo + LaCrosse + GrandPrix =

Taurus + Sable =

Five Hundred + Montego =

With the W-bodies spread across 3 divisions and 4 cars, <4 Divisions and 6 cars in the past> what essentially happened was a Impala Base, Impala Solara, Impala ES, Impala SE.

So yeah, divisionally, the Camry beats the Impala, but that ignores the rest of the cars out there.

[Flybrian]

For the first half of this year...

Camry + Solara + ES = 202,293

Impala + Monte Carlo + LaCrosse + GrandPrix = 227,141

Taurus + Sable = 77,271

Five Hundred + Montego = 53,707

300 + Charger + Magnum = 139,759

187412[/snapback]

Interesting, even discounting total fleet sales, The W-body quartet outsells the LX cars by several thousand units.

[Sajeev Mehta]

For the first half of this year...

Interesting, even discounting total fleet sales, The W-body quartet outsells the LX cars by several thousand units.

187423[/snapback]

Thanks for the sales numbers. Always nice to see it.

Does anyone have the fleet vs. retail sales? People say the Camry is becoming more of a rental car (haven't seen any here yet) maybe that's why its selling stronger and stronger.

[Drew Dowdell]

For the first half of this year...

Interesting, even discounting total fleet sales, The W-body quartet outsells the LX cars by several thousand units.

187423[/snapback]

And they're trying to hit what number with the NG Zeta Impala alone?

[CARBIZ]

I like how the fleet numbers inevitably get dragged into this argument. A sale is a sale.

The real debate should be, in the context of diminishing market share, does having 2 or 3 cars fighting in the same market make any sense? This is the real challenge.

True, if you walk into a Honda store and don't like the Accord, then Honda is up the creek. If you walk into a Chevy store and don't like the Impala, then they can still show you the Malibu, even (gasp) the Epica OR you could go up the street and see the G6, Grand Prix or even the Allure (or whatever you guys call is down south.)

Efficiencies of scale aside, I wonder how many potential customers GM loses because of customer confusion (what, you don't sell the Impala, screw it, I"m going to look at a Ford!).

We have had this debate many times here before, but I wonder if anyone has looked at the argument from the customer's point of view? I have seen the look of annoyance flash across a customer's face when they realize they have to get back into their car and drive another mile or so to a Pontiac store to look at the G6 because we don't have it.

[The O.C.]

That sounds like any Toyota POS ever made

169739[/snapback]

.....except that Toyota hits on the "engineering" and "execution" parts of the equation.......

[Drew Dowdell]

.....except that Toyota hits on the "engineering" and "execution" parts of the equation.......

187495[/snapback]

Great engineering went into that second gear and sixth gear?

or does execution stand for "plastic that falls on the gas pedal and holds it down"?

Maybe it means "steering wheel that falls off while driving"

or "baby ejector seat"

[Newbiewar]

Great engineering went into that second gear and sixth gear?

or does execution stand for "plastic that falls on the gas pedal and holds it down"?

Maybe it means "steering wheel that falls off while driving"

or "baby ejector seat"

187505[/snapback]

the steering wheel doesnt fall off... its a steering yoke that wasnt welded to the steering shaft, if i remember correctly

[Drew Dowdell]

the steering wheel doesnt fall off... its a steering yoke that wasnt welded to the steering shaft, if i remember correctly

187511[/snapback]

is that any better and is the net result any different?

[Newbiewar]

is that any better and is the net result any different?

187517[/snapback]

just dont want anyone pulling the bs flag...

and no... if you look at toyota with the Resturant philospophy... they cant even get their "chefs specialty" prius right... the camry has transmission and engine problems, the avalon has suspension and steering problems, the echo had engine problems, the tundra has suspension faults...

so when a statement is said like ".....except that Toyota hits on the "engineering" and "execution" parts of the equation......."

i wonder... what they were thinking...

the only execution that has been done well over the last decade is PR... because i've been on the side of the road in a toyota more than enough times...