New Holdens are to go on World Tour

[hyperv6]

It looks like Holden is bringing the new VE to the states for the GM board to drive and I am sure the press to drive. He is the full strory from DRIVE.COM.AU

Drive.com.au

It’s only just been revealed, but already Holden’s VE Commodore is embarking on a world tour.

"Holden has developed a secret plan to pitch the new VE Commodore SS to its parent General Motors as a Pontiac sports sedan model in the USA.

The future of the plan, which estimates a $20 million cost to legalise the car for North America, could rest on a sample drive by the General Motors board of directors in Detroit early in August.

At the same time board heavyweights, led by chairman Rick Wagoner and product czar Bob Lutz, will also drive a new long wheelbase WM Caprice luxury saloon.

At one stage the WM was going to be exported to the USA as a Buick Park Lane, a plan which has been scrapped. Holden execs hope that the drive might renew GM interest in that car.

But it is the SS-V, with its 6.0-litre V8 (complete with 270kW), six-speed automatic transmission, 19-inch wheels and aggressive bodykit that Holden chairman and managing director Denny Mooney sees as having the most potential as a replacement for the current Pontiac Grand Prix.

While Mooney won’t be at the board-drive, he will be in Detroit the week prior at a leadership meeting with the chance to extol the car’s virtues.

“If we had available (production) capacity I’d love to take the SS because it would make a great Pontiac,” said Mooney. “Pontiac is already talking about the fact they want to go rear-wheel-drive. A brand like Pontiac, in my opinion, could take this car and sell it.

“I think if you talk to anyone at Pontiac they’ll tell you they’d love a rear-wheel-drive performance Grand Prix.

“But I am not going to over-sell this thing. We are going to send these cars over there and let them speak for themselves.

Mooney said the $20 million legalisation costs would primarily relate to complying with crash regulations.

“Between engineering, prototyping and tooling it would be in the neighbourhood of $20 million,” he said. “We’d have to crash a lot of cars to run their specific tests, but from a performance standpoint it wouldn’t be an issue.”

In part that’s because the new Commodore’s fuel tank moves in front of the rear axle line, something crucial to US crash approval.

Sending the SS to the USA to replace the ageing front-wheel-drive Grand Prix would extend Holden and Pontiac’s relationship, established when the Monaro was exported to the USA as a GTO from late 2003. That deal has only just expired.

But Mooney was also adamant that such a plan would depend on the demand for VE and WM in the domestic and established export markets. The Elizabeth assembly plant in South Australia has a capacity of about 145,000 cars per year. He does not expect spare capacity for the first 12 months of VE’s life.

“We have to wait and see how this car goes. If we had the available capacity then we’d be looking at the US as a potential market.

While built-up exports to the USA are no more than a plan at the moment, both VE and WM will be sent from the Elizabeth assembly plant to the Middle East as Chevrolets.

The WM will be sold as a Buick Royaum in China, but will be sent in a ‘CKD’ (completely knocked-down) pack to be assembled on-site. It will also be exported to Korea and sold there as a Daewoo.

The short wheelbase SS-V or an even more sporty Holden Special Vehicles version will go to the UK in extremely limited numbers, replacing the out-of-production Monaro.

Cars are also being sent to Opel in Europe for evaluation. But Mooney is dubious about a positive reception there.

The export of built-up cars is a separate deal to Holden’s role as a developer of the rear-wheel-drive architecture that makes it s debut underpinning VE and WM. That will be used by a number of future vehicles to be manufactured in Asia and the USA as well as Australia."

I expect new news will pick up from here and new reports will start coming much more often.

Edited July 17, 2006 by hyperv6

[Northstar]

Very interesting. It sounds like they want the SS-V as a Pontiac and the Caprice as a Buick, and I'd have no objections if they got revised fasicas to look more like Pontiacs and Buicks.

I think there is definetly a need for a Pontiac, but I fear the Buick would steal many of the basically new Lucerne's sales, and it might make more sense to wait until the NG Lucerne to have a RWD Buick sedan.

If the SS-V were to come, it would also need a less-agressive model with the 3.6L HF V6 standard to maximize sales. While Holden doesn't seem to have much production capacity down under, aren't they building a plant in Korea (or China?) that they could build them at. I know many people would object to building them there, but if they see how good the car is it might shut them up.

[Clownzilla]

Well, the way I see it, GMNA needs these cars to help their USA comeback!

[hyperv6]

Well we already know the Camaro will be made here in NA. I think it would be safe to assume the Impala will also be built up here too.

Because of the volume of the Chevys we know they will be their own true cars and not share any sheet metal with Holden only under pinnings.

As for Buick and Pontiac I expect they already have plans but need to approve them now that Holden is done with the line. The SSV is a GXP with only a need of the front and rear in need of change.

As for the Buick, I would love to seee the car here but we know so little of what GM is planning for Buick that no one on this side of the gate at GM can really make a good guess at this point. I just find it hard to get excited over a the coming Super. But I know they are just buying time.

Both Buick and Pontiac could have a great car and save a lot of money by bringing these into the showroom with minor changes. Since neither will see as much volume as Chevy it would be a wise move when they are tring to save money.

Question is where to build these cars. who will have room and where would it be more profitable with the exchange rate at the time of production.

One note on the SSV. It already has a red back lite dash.

[regfootball]

Very interesting. It sounds like they want the SS-V as a Pontiac and the Caprice as a Buick, and I'd have no objections if they got revised fasicas to look more like Pontiacs and Buicks.

I think there is definetly a need for a Pontiac, but I fear the Buick would steal many of the basically new Lucerne's sales, and it might make more sense to wait until the NG Lucerne to have a RWD Buick sedan.

If the SS-V were to come, it would also need a less-agressive model with the 3.6L HF V6 standard to maximize sales. While Holden doesn't seem to have much production capacity down under, aren't they building a plant in Korea (or China?) that they could build them at. I know many people would object to building them there, but if they see how good the car is it might shut them up.

167678[/snapback]

why haven't the NA execs driven the car yet? it's been introduced and the execs here haven't tested it?

A Calais with a 300hp direct inject 3.6 or whatever and AWD in either 6 speed auto or manual would be fine with me. I would almost prefer to have it come from AU because that would eliminate the chances of some clueless bumpkin in detroit value engineering the nice interior or great choice of engines out of the car.

But i can see a case where the statesman/caprice could provide new RWD cars for Chevy and Buick and the Calais/SSv could be new Pontiacs. Just make sure they have AWD.

Edited July 17, 2006 by regfootball

[ZL-1]

I don't think the LWB Zeta fits with Pontiac, so the Commodore would make sense as a Grand Prix or G8, while keeping the G6 FWD.

When I saw the Calais' tail lights they reminded me of the current Grand Prix's.

[Thunder7]

I'd have no objections if they got revised fasicas to look more like Pontiacs and Buicks.

I like the look of them now...and have the opposite opinion. It is time for Pontiacs to STOP looking all the same. This car would be a good start.

[Cadillacfan]

Seeing how Lutz was the one who brought the Monaro over, there is no doubt in my mind this vehicle will end up in North America as a Pontiac.

Though, since this will be much higher volume in sales then the GTO, GM will probably do things a little differently.

I think it will still be built in Australia but will probably be taken apart, shipped, and then re-assembled in the US or Canada to keep the union/loyal customers happy. They're doing it with the Buick Royaum, why not this?

Then, they'll probably do a bit more exterior and interior work to make it fit with the rest of the Pontiac lineup instead of just tweaking the grille and adding hoodscoops like they did with the GTO.

Edited July 17, 2006 by Cadillacfan

[sciguy_0504]

I think it needs to be more aggressive to be a Pontiac. Yes, that was the major complaint regarding the GTO (and I love the car) but the sedan needs to be more bold, IMO.

Edit: And it would be nice to have not just a typical slapped-on grille, either. Time for a change.

Edited July 17, 2006 by sciguy_0504

[Chicagoland]

I do want to see new top of the line RWD cars, but I don't think they alone will 'secure GM's comeback'. They need a full line of good cars, not just RWD V8's for rich people who can afford $80 tanks of gas each week.

Edited July 17, 2006 by Chicagoland

[NOS2006]

Early August in Detroit?! WOODWARD DREAM CRUISE! I'll be there! I can't wait to see 'em.

[Ghost Dog]

Interesting that at this point Monney still has to pitch it to GMNA.

[american_revolution_2005]

If they bring it as the next Grand Prix, they will have to take a different approach then they did with the GTO. The GTO never came to Canada because of bumper standards so they would have to fix this problem because you cant get rid of the GP out of any lineup. I agree with NOS2006, if they are at Woodward I would love to see them in person and it would get them great PR as well.

[Imaj]

I don't think the LWB Zeta fits with Pontiac, so the Commodore would make sense as a Grand Prix or G8, while keeping the G6 FWD.

When I saw the Calais' tail lights they reminded me of the current Grand Prix's.

167859[/snapback]

Yeah Pontiac should get the SWB while Buick gets the LWB and the Statesman/Caprice already look Buick-y, some minor tweaks and they'll be all set.

[dford]

I guess I assumed that GM had a plan to bring these cars or at least this platform to the US all along. Now we find out they will begin to consider it soon?????? No wonder GM is in such a mess! So if the Board approves, it could be years before these cars get here.

[Cadillacfan]

Wrong.

Take a look at the GTO. It took a very short amount of time to get it to the states after Lutz tried it out in Austraila.

The vehicle is already going to be produced and since it was made to be sold around the world(read the press releases), the only work that needs to be done for it to come to the US and Canada is exterior only.. minimal exterior work too.

The Zeta cars are already under development, this vehicle will probably be the first of the new RWD vehicles to get to the North American market because GM probably doesn't want to wait too long. The Camaro will be here around 09. This could be here in Fall 2007 if GM does decide to bring it here. Not bad if you ask me.

[SimonDavid]

They still don't have their global product planning sorted out if Holden needs to pitch it to head office after it's been introduced in Australia

But yeah I'd think Commodore as a Pontiac, Statesman as a Buick. So the BPG cars are low investment niche imports, and Camaro and Impala are US designed high volume models of their own with unique sheet metal.

Though Australia is an increasingly high cost source - the resources boom is continually strengthening the Australian dollar

[ZL-1]

and the Statesman/Caprice already look Buick-y, some minor tweaks and they'll be all set.

168048[/snapback]

I too think the Statesman/Caprice looks Buick-y. I think the Statesman would be a better Buick than the Caprice, because the wood trim and the front bumper looks more like a 'traditional luxury' car. The Caprice's interior and exterior looks more like a 'sophisticated (sp?) luxury' car. To me at least.

However, I wonder if American buyers would react negatively to the same car being sold as a Chevy in the Middle East... Assuming they'd be aware of that, of course!

[ketch]

Makes perfect sense:

Saturn as NA versions of Opel

Pontiac as NA versions of Holden

A real no brainer!

[FunkyPig]

The side intakes on the LWB WM could easily be turned into portholes too...

[Sixty8panther]

EVERY VARIATION SHOULD BE OFFERED TO ALL THREE...

CHEVY, BUICK & PONTIAC!

Are you listening GM...? do the right thing for once please.

[Rear-Wheel Drive]

Earth to GM fans - what's with all this rebranding of a Holden Caprice to an American Buick? GM needs this car to stay a Caprice and to be launched without delay by Chevrolet. Hasn't anybody noticed that the Dodge Charger just outsold the Chrysler 300 for the first time last month and now is selling at an annualized rate of 120,000 units!

When the Chevrolet Caprice/Impala SS B-Body died in 1996, it was selling at a lower rate than that. The full-size RWD sports sedan is back with a vengance. With the fosselization of the Ford Crown Vic and GM lost in space for the last ten years, Dodge now own the market for the full-size mid-priced RWD American sports sedan!

Niche Buick and Pontiac versions of this new Zeta platform can wait - GM needs a high volume Chevrolet first - and they need it fast!

[regfootball]

bring the caprice as a chevy and the statesman as a buick. the calais and SSV should be pontiac G8

[regfootball]

I guess I assumed that GM had a plan to bring these cars or at least this platform to the US all along. Now we find out they will begin to consider it soon?????? No wonder GM is in such a mess! So if the Board approves, it could be years before these cars get here.

168055[/snapback]

sounds like a good reason to me to fire em all. if they can't structure their organization to react or act fast, then 'get a new structure' in the organization.

[Robert Hall]

Earth to GM fans - what's with all this rebranding of a Holden Caprice to an American Buick? GM needs this car to stay a Caprice and to be launched without delay by Chevrolet. Hasn't  anybody noticed that the Dodge Charger just outsold the Chrysler 300 for the first time last month and now is selling at an annualized rate of 120,000 units!

When the Chevrolet Caprice/Impala SS B-Body died in 1996, it was selling at a lower rate than that. The full-size RWD sports sedan is back with a vengance. With the fosselization of the Ford Crown Vic and GM lost in space for the last ten years, Dodge now own the market for the full-size mid-priced RWD American sports sedan! 

Niche Buick and Pontiac versions of this new Zeta platform can wait - GM needs a high volume Chevrolet first - and they need it fast!

168989[/snapback]

Well, I've read that Chevy was developing a Zeta-based Impala for the US with semi-retro styling based on the '67 Impala.. that I assume will be the US Chevy Zeta..and it's been said the new Holden Statesman will be a Buick for the US...

[Robert Hall]

bring the caprice as a chevy and the statesman as a buick.  the calais and SSV should be pontiac G8

169272[/snapback]

The problem is the Caprice and Statesman are nearly identical...Chevy and Buick need distinctly different styling (you don't want GM to go back to badge-engineering across their car lines, do you?)

I like the idea of Pontiac getting the performance-oriented SWB model, and Chevy and Buick need the bigger sedans, but they need totally different styling inside and out(not just grilles and fascias)..

Edited July 20, 2006 by moltar

[ehaase]

I can see a remote possibility of the Commodore being imported here as a Pontiac, but I am sure that the next RWD Buick will be the Zeta Lucerne and will be produced at Oshawa.

[FunkyPig]

Any Holden imported would be limited in volume as was the GTO. So a version of the SSV sold as a top of the range Pontiac could work.

But any mainstream versions could not be built in Australia without changes beng made to the factory etc.

[zhawk]

If GM wants any of these Holdens here as a Pontiac, Buick, whatever, I think it would make more sense to build it here in the US. More production capability.

[Imaj]

Any Holden imported would be limited in volume as was the GTO. So a version of the SSV sold as a top of the range Pontiac could work.

But any mainstream versions could not be built in Australia without changes beng made to the factory etc.

169432[/snapback]

Weird the forigners can get away with importing their cars while GM can't! They have to deal with the UAW all those issues!

[Camino LS6]

I call "smokescreen" on the "pitch it to the board" talk, GM brass has been thinking this one over for a very long time. I think we will see both of these cars here very soon, with the GMNA-built Impala soon after. Camaro is still a wild card as to arrival time, and GTO could arrive with it.

[Mr.Krinkle]

If GM wants any of these Holdens here as a Pontiac, Buick, whatever, I think it would make more sense to build it here in the US. More production capability.

169453[/snapback]

they will build them here. i think its a matter of hammering out the details in australia.