GM Mulls AWD Cobalt

[MyerShift]

"Cobalt: The 2006 model year is big for performance at Chevrolet, with the SS badge added to a wide range of high-horsepower vehicles. Cobalt SS coupe and sedan models feature a 171-hp, 2.4-liter four-cylinder engine as well as suspension and styling enhancements. A freshening is planned for the 2008 model year. GM is exploring an awd Cobalt variant that likely would be aimed at the Mitsubishi Evolution and Subaru WRX." -AutoWeek. I'm not sure how accurate this is, but I would believe it to be reasonably so. An all wheel drive Cobalt sure seems exciting!

[regfootball]

don't waste the time GM.

[BIGPhil]

If GM does decide to make a EVO/STi fighter then they had better pay attention to what the competion has done and what system they have in place. There is a reason that these cars can ask their $30,000 price tags and still be called a "performance value". I mean GM has the potential as far as the engine is concerned as their Grand Am Cup and Drag racing efforts show. But developing a reliable AWD system that has the technological advancements of the EVO and theSTi, which have been groomed by the "take-no-prisoner" WRC circut, will be a great feat in itself. But if Gm would like to make a statement that the Cobalt is up to the standards of the hard pounding, completely abusive, and rigorous (check spelling) ins and outs of a proven WRC rally car then I say go ahead GM.

[Dsuupr]

Why not. Getting the basics from Subaru wouldn't be hard, and it really could help the Cobalt stand out. Though I think doing such a product with Saturn makes more sense. Especially considering the way Saturn wants to go.

[avro206]

I think its a waste of resources as well. At least on a small car. I don't know why they hype over all wheel drive: costs more consumes more fuel costs more to fix Sure you can drop the clutch at 5K rpm and tak off like a sling shot but your drive line components will not last very long

[regfootball]

other segments of the market need GM's resources more right now. They could put a real motor in the G6, for example.

[Dsuupr]

I think its a waste of resources as well. At least on a small car.

I don't know why they hype over all wheel drive:

costs more
consumes more fuel
costs more to fix

Sure you can drop the clutch at 5K rpm and tak off like a sling shot but your drive line components will not last very long

[post="12201"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I'm guessing you don't live in the NW where GM is hurting in sales. Subaru is queen around here and GM needs products that would appeal to people here. Adding an AWD small car line would be perfect.

[sciguy_0504]

The STI/Evo segment is very small and the money and time spent to develop the AWD Cobalt will be a waste. It could be spent elsewhere. On Buick or Pontiac, perhaps? Got an idea: an AWD Pontiac that looks significantly different from the Cobalt/Persuit and offers awesome performance, all for about $25,000.

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

I agree with regfootball and avro206-plus there's too little passenger room in Cobalt already, as all-wheel-drive would eat up more of the dinky passenger space Cobalt already has, and though the trunk is above-average (probably the only thing about the car other than engines and coupe rear styling that IS above-average), it would reduce it to like 10 cubic feet. And this Cobalt should be focused more on mainstream-market compact cars, and fuel economy. Give AWD to a Buick or Pontiac version, but leave it out of Cobalt, and leave it out of this generation period.

[Dsuupr]

The WRX has taken Subaru to a new level even for those that don't buy it. The Cobalt needs such a piece in it's product line to help it stand out from the rest of the crowd. The SS Supercharded, though great, is not powerful enough, or odd enough to stand out.

[HarleyEarl]

Why don't they just use the Subaru and make it a Chevy and save some time. GM is always late to the table.

[z28luvr01]

If they up the HP on the Cobalt SS signifcantly to the 250-300 range, they'd need an AWD system to counteract the ridiculous amount of torque steer. With the Cobalt already beginning to carve itself a racing pedigree of its own, it'll be nice to see how it fares on the WRC circuit. Plus, there is an additional payoff in the form of a possible AWD HHR, which would proably make it the best budget SUV alternative out there.

[IntimidatorSS]

Give the Cobalt AWD a hi po V6 and call it Z24 (In the style of a Z06 cobalt). Go after the AWD hi po market and at the same time go after the market of Eclipses with the V6. Also I think a AWD HHR would appealing as well I'd love to see a performance variant of a HHR at least cause this thing is really starting to appeal to me..........

[Mikko O]

I'm guessing you don't live in the NW where GM is hurting in sales.  Subaru is queen around here and GM needs products that would appeal to people here.  Adding an AWD small car line would be perfect.

[post="12206"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Precisely, there is a need for AWD in many parts of the US. It's a great
friend to have in snow and icy conditions.

[LosAngeles]

You guys are thinking way too North American, forgetting that the Delta is a world chassis. Surely this would come to great use in a WRC Astra, and the Cobalt would basically be using the same running gear. The AWD turbo Astra/Cobalt could be a cult classic also. But one would not want it come out with 300 horses if the Mitsu is up to 400. I miss Nissan and Ford being in this segment too.

[CaddyXLR-V]

I think it would help alot. Even it doesnt sell that much, it could still bring alot of recognition to the whole Cobalt line. And I dont think AWD should be limited to only the 250+hp version, it should be available with the 170 and 205 hp versions as well. Then GM could offer a sport tuned suspension for the AWD models. I think it would put the Cobalt a step ahead of the Civic, Neon, and Focus and other compacts. GM needs to find a way to make it available on the G6 as well.

[LosAngeles]

I think it would help alot. Even it doesnt sell that much, it could still bring alot of recognition to the whole Cobalt line. And I dont think AWD should be limited to only the 250+hp version, it should be available with the 170 and 205 hp versions as well. Then GM could offer a sport tuned suspension for the AWD models. I think it would put the Cobalt a step ahead of the Civic, Neon, and Focus and other compacts. GM needs to find a way to make it available on the G6 as well.

[post="12275"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

While that's a whole different chassis, that should definitely happen.

And I would love to see a G6 Turbo with a 2.8 HF. No one would laugh at the G6 then.

[pow]

Not in this generation Cobalt, I hope. The current one has too many faults that can bring an otherwise strong performer down. Plus, there's already an SS Supercharged version. Maybe the next...

[Northstar]

I think GM should definetly develop AWD for the whole Delta line. A Cobalt with AWD and a turbo 275hp Ecotec would kick ass.

However, I think the biggest advantage to have AWD Delta would be on the HHR. I'm sure lots of people would like to have AWD on it.

Not in this generation Cobalt, I hope. The current one has too many faults that can bring an otherwise strong performer down. Plus, there's already an SS Supercharged version. Maybe the next...

That's a lame excuse for not giving it AWD. Just because it's not the best at everything doesn't mean it can't be one of the few compact cars to offer AWD.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

It's about time GM seriously considers this. Think about it, the ultra high performance Z06, and ultra high performance Z28 and an ultra high performance Zxx from the Cobalt line, all in coupe form. Then we can call the sedan version something else. I think GM should bring this to market as fast as possible, for sales but more importantly image. It would do good for Chevrolet, Pontiac or even Saturn.

[milleramerican]

That's a lame excuse for not giving it AWD. Just because it's not the best at everything doesn't mean it can't be one of the few compact cars to offer AWD.

I agree. With AWD, it can be a player and if executed correctly, will add credibility to the line.

[Dsuupr]

What's wrong with the current edition Delta? No magazine has complained about the chassis or it's possible dynamics. They just want a nicer interior / exterior design with more power.

[pow]

What's wrong with the current edition Delta?  No magazine has complained about the chassis or it's possible dynamics.  They just want a nicer interior / exterior design with more power.

[post="12369"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

It'll be dated by the time the AWD version comes out, IMO. It makes more sense to develop the next-gen Cobalt with that in mind rather than spending all that time and money on a car that'll be 3-4 years old.

[jbartley]

It'll be dated by the time the AWD version comes out, IMO. It makes more sense to develop the next-gen Cobalt with that in mind rather than spending all that time and money on a car that'll be 3-4 years old.

[post="12370"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Yeah I agree

PLUS if anyone should have AWD it should be Pontiacs and Saturns first.
(and of course saaaaabs)

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

It'll be dated by the time the AWD version comes out, IMO. It makes more sense to develop the next-gen Cobalt with that in mind rather than spending all that time and money on a car that'll be 3-4 years old.

[post="12370"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

That, and it trails nearly every single competitor in passenger room, particularly the rear.

[capriceman]

I think its a waste of resources as well. At least on a small car.

I don't know why they hype over all wheel drive:

costs more
consumes more fuel
costs more to fix

Sure you can drop the clutch at 5K rpm and tak off like a sling shot but your drive line components will not last very long

[post="12201"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN!!!!!


Technolgy has improved. Also its not that much anymore and fuel consumption has gone down with magenment systems they can control all that stuff and traction is a big thing to FF is ok RWD horrible in snow and AWD is god also if you live on a dirt road you like to go fast around corners unless you are a pro dirt racer with any car you will one day spin. ive seen it knew him severly injured doing 30 around a corner in a ford focus svt thought he knew wut he was doing he went around 21st street near Baldwin MI (dirt road) he cought a rut and his car spun sideways in to a tree the driver door was smashed into the tree his head smashed in to the tree a 2 year recovery i watched him doing it i was about to pass him that could of been me.

Any way many poeple like convince of AWD drive and would gain sube and mistu buyers away. they should steal a platform from sube and build off the that and fit the componets into the cobalt chasis.

(you may think your the best untill somthing you can't undo to help yourself happens! and remeber kids Street racing is not cool cause no one can predict wut happens next...................................)

[Cadillacfan]

A lot of people here are saying that GM shouldn't waste it's time with AWD on the Cobalt. I wonder if a few of those people are the same ones who said GM shouldn't waste it's time on the Solstice. It's time for GM to start leading the way. There are a couple of affordable AWD compact sedans out there but none of them are sold under high-volume brands like Chevy, Toyota, and Honda. Why not have GM lead the way in that department for once. If you still think it's a waste of time: Toyota already has AWD on the Matrix, what makes you think they won't offer it on the next Corolla? They're basically the same vehicle.

[frogger]

If they can do it well and sell it cheaper by a good margin than a WRX with similar performance, they should. Otherwise, who is going to buy it vs the established WRX and Lancer?

[daves87rs]

I have to agree with Northstar, all the delta's should at least offer it. Simply put, if they try to have a battle out with the Civic, no matter what they do, GM WILL lose. And that is the cold, hard, facts. If GM can't beat them in the game, then they should do something different. The Cobalt ( and more so, ION) need to grab some cred with everyone they can. If you think they should just stick with only trying to improve the Balt', look no farther the Neon to see where things are headed. Glad to see DC realized that too... Neither the Subie or MItsu are great cars be any means( when compared to the Civic and Corolla), but with top car creds with both street and rally people, people look past the stupid things that others tear though GM car line. Think a Cavalier would even survive a rally event? :unsure: Just fit and finish and trying to match the best won't cut it anymore. If the Cobalt wants to build on its sucesses, it needs to be both different, improved, and maybe even a little cool. B) If AWD will help it get there, by all means put it in there. Chances are good it would add to sales anyways, considering Gm sells quite a few Vibe and Nox AWD models in those rough patches around here. -end rant- Whew!

[avro206]

WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN!!!!!
Technolgy has improved. Also its not that much anymore and fuel consumption has gone down with magenment systems they can control all that stuff and traction is a big thing to FF is ok RWD horrible in snow and AWD is god also if you live on a dirt road you like to go fast around corners unless you are a pro dirt racer with any car you will one day spin. ive seen it knew him severly injured doing 30 around a corner in a ford focus svt thought he knew wut he was doing he went around 21st street near Baldwin MI (dirt road) he cought a rut and his car spun sideways in to a tree the driver door was smashed into the tree his head smashed in to the tree a 2 year recovery i watched him doing it i was about to pass him that could of been me.

Any way many poeple like convince of AWD drive and would gain sube and mistu buyers away. they should steal a platform from sube and build off the that and fit the componets into the cobalt chasis.

(you may think your the best untill somthing you can't undo to help yourself happens! and remeber kids Street racing is not cool cause no one can predict wut happens next...................................)

[post="12396"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Oh I have been around. And totally for the Solstice (and the coupe) and the Nomad.

I just pointed out some very true drawbacks to AWD. Whats the postives?

Okay good traction in poor weather.

I have driven RWD Camaros in very nasty winter weather. No accidents. If its super bad and I could not get out----better to stay at home anyhow

Good 60ft times for drag racing....yes but murder on your car. Learn how to launch a rwd or fwd car----takes some skill.

It will be slower from a roll at any speed. More mass to over come and more driveline loss of hp.

I just don't get how people take to the latest craze.
Lamborghinis are all AWD now and it makes me sick. They are heavy. And I cannot tell you how many magazines road test one and the clutch is shot.

Thats just my $0.02 Edited September 11, 2005 by avro206

[cavalier36]

i think they should build an AWD cobalt. but it would need an engine around 240-250 hp. maybe if they supercharged the 2.4L ecotec. it would be ok if it was ready for the 2008 model year. the cobalt is schduled to recieve a facelift for the 08 model year, the same time we will see a new Saturn Ion.. we probably wont see a whole new cobalt until around 2011 or even 2012.. so there is still time to upgrade this one.. there is talk of raising the HP on the SS supercharged for 2007 to around 220 hp, up 15 hp from the 06 model..

[ToniCipriani]

I think it's good, in a way that they don't think in the classic GM way: if one thing is proved to be good, they put it on everything, like FWD and the Hydramatic.

A good thing is good, but not when you put it on everything, even on places where they shouldn't be. Choice is also important as well. They need both AWD and FWD options.

Although AWD Delta may fit Pontiac a bit better than Chevy, given that it doesn't look identical.

[capriceman]

Oh I have been around. And totally for the Solstice (and the coupe) and the Nomad.

I just pointed out some very true drawbacks to AWD. Whats the postives?

Okay good traction in poor weather.

I have driven RWD Camaros in very nasty winter weather. No accidents. If its super bad and I could not get out----better to stay at home anyhow

Good 60ft times for drag racing....yes but murder on your car. Learn how to launch a rwd or fwd car----takes some skill.

It will be slower from a roll at any speed. More mass to over come and more driveline loss of hp.

I just don't get how people take to the latest craze.
Lamborghinis are all AWD now and it makes me sick. They are heavy. And I cannot tell you how many magazines road test one and the clutch is shot.

Thats just my $0.02

[post="12505"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

i respect that very much i agree to many cars have AWD but GM should have it as a option maybe it will increase some sales or have it as a non full time 4wd option to kick in when you want or when it is need most? i like like awd cars because they go down the road differnt than any other car. o ive mastered the rwd launch i hate fwd. its something new that might dig gm out of its hold and should not cost that much for them also who am I to say im right and who r u to say ur right ............................

[pow]

I just think there are greater priorities than AWD for a car like the Cobalt. How about stability control or a better interior first?

[Cory Wolfe]

And how about for Pontiac instead of Chevy? That should be a bigger priority, right?

[pipius]

Something to think about the new Saturn Ion wil be coming out in my08. That is also the year Lordstown maybe geting the Ion. So what if the Ion will have an AWD and to help on cost put it in more then one car.

[mjd1001]

I don't want to say it's a waste of time, but I certainly beleive it would be a very low volume car. Is the Cobalt a nice small car? yes. However, it is nice for a car in it's class. If you make it AWD (and give it a much more powerful engine, which would seem a given with AWD) you are moving it a few thousand dollars up the price scale. At that point you are going to be competing in price with the likes of a G6 GT and G6 GTP, even some entry level Monte Carlos and Grand Prixs. You may also be close to the price point of the Solstice and Sky. Is this a bad thing? Maybe not on the surface...but at that price point you are going to be out of the range of many teen-age or college age tuners, and when you get into the group of people who can afford the car, they may opt for the comfort, size, and refinement of the G6 or Monte Carlo instead (with comparable performance also at the price. Remember you will be able to get a 300hp monte SS this year for under $30,000, and you can get the 240hp G6GTP for under $25,000). I'd say build it, as long as you realize it's not going to be even close to a volume car. It has to be profitable almost as a limited supply vehicle.

[Ghost Dog]

Delta 2 will be a Global architecture, With GME and GMDAT taking the Engineering lead. So if AWD Has a solid Business case for GME or GMDAT it will be available. Next gen Ion,Cobalt,Astra,and Forenza(Nubira) all Delta 2 ?

[The O.C.]

GM is exploring an awd Cobalt variant that likely would be aimed at the Mitsubishi Evolution and Subaru WRX."
                                      -AutoWeek.

[post="12136"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

This would be a HUGE mistake for GM. While it would be fun for us GM fans, in the marketplace, such an expensive and complicated Cobalt would die a hard death.

Subaru and Mitsubishi have incredibly-strong world-wide reputations for the WRX and EVO....lots of it stemming from their rally-racing heritage.

GM can't match that with Cobalt.....

[Dsuupr]

This would be a HUGE mistake for GM.  While it would be fun for us GM fans, in the marketplace, such an expensive and complicated Cobalt would die a hard death.

Subaru and Mitsubishi have incredibly-strong world-wide reputations for the WRX and EVO....lots of it stemming from their rally-racing heritage. 

GM can't match that with Cobalt.....

[post="12643"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Who says GM can't match it with the Cobalt? The chassis is much more capable than I think many of you are giving it credit for. Given the right tunning and play time by GM engineers, I do think they could out do both the Subaru and Mitsu, the would just have to give it some rally-racing time to prove it to the rest of the world. With Chevy going world wide I think it would be a very smart decision.

[LosAngeles]

This would be a HUGE mistake for GM.  While it would be fun for us GM fans, in the marketplace, such an expensive and complicated Cobalt would die a hard death.

Subaru and Mitsubishi have incredibly-strong world-wide reputations for the WRX and EVO....lots of it stemming from their rally-racing heritage. 

GM can't match that with Cobalt.....

[post="12643"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

They can with a combo of Cobalt and Astra.....like I said, we're thinking too North American in here.

[haypops]

Delta 2 will be a Global architecture, With GME and GMDAT taking the Engineering lead. So if AWD Has a solid Business case for GME or GMDAT it will be available.

Next gen Ion,Cobalt,Astra,and Forenza(Nubira) all Delta 2 ?

[post="12593"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Wouldn't AWD require getting rid of the beam rear axle. Would the Delta 2 be a good time for this change. Alternatively would they offer both sustpensions like they did on the Ponitac minivan?

[Matt276]

I'm not sure GM has the money to to it right now. There is so many products that need an upgrade.

[Ultra Magnus]

If they add AWD to the cobalt they should really make it an option across the board of other cars. While the Cobalt is nice, why not offer AWD on cars that really NEED it. Like the Grand Prix GXP for instance.

[LosAngeles]

If they add AWD to the cobalt they should really make it an option across the board of other cars.  While the Cobalt is nice, why not offer AWD on cars that really NEED it.  Like the Grand Prix GXP for instance.

[post="12930"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Exactly....after all, this was promised years ago.

[axoid]

Oh I have been around. And totally for the Solstice (and the coupe) and the Nomad.

I just pointed out some very true drawbacks to AWD. Whats the postives?

Okay good traction in poor weather.

I have driven RWD Camaros in very nasty winter weather. No accidents. If its super bad and I could not get out----better to stay at home anyhow

Good 60ft times for drag racing....yes but murder on your car. Learn how to launch a rwd or fwd car----takes some skill.

It will be slower from a roll at any speed. More mass to over come and more driveline loss of hp.

I just don't get how people take to the latest craze.
Lamborghinis are all AWD now and it makes me sick. They are heavy. And I cannot tell you how many magazines road test one and the clutch is shot.

Thats just my $0.02

[post="12505"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Having ridden in and driven several WRX's, Evo's and various pony cars, I can say that in the dry the AWD cars have a major advantage in accelerating off the line and out of corners. In stock form they do have more problem with under-steer in corners, but this can be overcome with some tuning adjustments and driving style. For the past year in SCCA Solo2, the rally cars have been beating to snot out of the pony cars. So much so that the rally cars are likely to be reclassed at the end of the year.

Whether GM puts AWD in the Cobalt or not, the need to develop a good AWD system, because the system they put in my AWD VUE may be OK in the snow, but sucks any other time with front wheel spin for 1-2 seconds before the rear kicks in.

[LosAngeles]

That's a beautiful Camaro in that sig.

[Imaj]

GM Should build it, while still offering the FWD SS..

[axoid]

That's a beautiful Camaro in that sig.

[post="12941"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Thanks. :)

[daves87rs]

GM Should build it, while still offering the FWD SS..

[post="12942"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

quoted for truth.