Top TEN Exotic$

[Sixty8panther]

Top 10 most expensive cars on the market today:

http://www.automotoportal.com/article/Top_...rs_in_the_world

I love the Veyron but $1.7 million? WTF!

The ENZO for seven figures is equally if not more insulting.

I knew that $h!pile was expensive but I thought it was like

750K not a cool mill.

If I spent a million on car(s) I'd have half of my top 100

dream cars & money left over for registration.

[Flybrian]

The Veyron is beyond exotic; its masterful. So far beyond anything else even considered exotic.

But believe me, for those price ranges, I wouldn't even be looking at mere cars...

Piper Meridian - $1.8mil

[the_yellow_dart]

I had no idea the Vanquish was so expensive!

[Drew Dowdell]

Of all of those, I'd go for the Phantom.

[FAPTurbo]

If I spent a million on car(s) I'd have half of my top 100

dream cars & money left over for registration.

166289[/snapback]

[Black and Blue Landscaper]

some one in Cali crashed an Enzo as soon as it was reported 299 other enzos went up 100K that is crazy

[balthazar]

No Saleen S7?

And this kills me: "Koenigsegg CCX $600,910". Really now... at this stratospherically arbitrary price, what's with the $910 extra??

[Flybrian]

No Saleen S7?

And this kills me: "Koenigsegg CCX $600,910". Really now... at this stratospherically arbitrary price, what's with the $910 extra??

166377[/snapback]

The cost of the extra letters for the badging.

[Nick]

some one in Cali crashed an Enzo as soon as it was reported 299 other enzos went up 100K that is crazy

166365[/snapback]

Yea, a pretty good number have been wiped out now...I remember the one in cali though...Happened right off Decker canyon and PCH...not too far from me...had I known about it I probably would've shot over there to see if I could grab some Enzo memorabilia... :AH-HA_wink:

[ToniCipriani]

The cost of the extra letters for the badging.

166396[/snapback]

Or the exclusive Top Gear spoiler...

[Newbiewar]

There was 2 enzo crashes in so cal in the last year...

[Sixty8panther]

There was 2 enzo crashes in so cal in the last year...

166640[/snapback]

I'm sure there will be mor4e... *hick*

[csaba1218]

http://www.badassmopars.150m.com/M4S.html

Screw em all i know this is a concept but it is the coolest car ever, it was featured in a movie called "the Wraith" the movie was not the greatest ever but this car is hott.

[csaba1218]

Dodge M4s concept is what i refer to above

[04monteintimidator]

haha and when the blue devil comes out all but the veyron will be horribly embarassed when price and performance are compared... and hell if its done right... even the veyron might be crying in the corner

[NOS2006]

I wouldn't count on the Blue Devil being quicker nor faster than the Veyron..

[04monteintimidator]

i didnt say that... i said performance for the dollar... blue devil... 100k, 650 horsepower and a rumored weight of under 2900 lbs... thats gunna move FAST... for less than a 10th of the price of the Veyron... thats what i meant... im aware it wont be able to beat the veyron in any means

[balthazar]

Well, lessee...

505 HP = 198 MPH

650 HP = ???

Won't be 253 but it should be 225 no problem. In that these 2 will never race fender-to-fender except perhaps in a magazine, the actual numbers are only bench-racing fodder.

[Cory Wolfe]

If I spent a million on car(s) I'd have half of my top 100

dream cars & money left over for registration.

166289[/snapback]

Heh... same here, basically. Although... many of my dreams cars aren't really "dreamy."

[razoredge]

Well with GT500's bringing 1/4 of a million Id say a new Enzo is worth four

These car are not nor have they ever been built to sell to we common smucks, learn it, accept it and deal with it. Somewhere around there is a rule amounst hotrodders of what it costs to build engines & their cars to shave off seconds in just a quarter mile...............its alot of money. These exotic cars shave off seconds in corner speeds, braking speeds as well as acceleration..........you know they are real cars that can handle what the road throws at them............not the case with a tubbed and blown Chevelle at $XXXXXX.XX. Anyone know what people spend to have professionals do a total quality restoration on your typical dream car ? That is exactly what you need to do if you want to compare a classic domestic to a brand new exotic and when your done you will not have 1/10 of the car in total road able prowess. These exotics are made for people that can afford the race proven technology and ultra performance parts and materials they are made out of, then there is far more time put into assembly, more like the time into a restoration. The people that buy these cars are very sucessful and want the ultimate auto, money is no issue and they dont want to see one on every street corner ("oh look its another Stang ") There is waiting lists for these cars, sold before the pieces are even built...................so I just dont see the problem.

Thanks goodness for Luigi Chinetti and the 49 166MM

[HarleyEarl]

Razoredge, that has to be one of the purest, most beautiful sports cars ever made.

[Sixty8panther]

To a degree I understand exactly wht you're saying Razor... it's true that some

exotics are race cars for the street & what not. As good as their braking &

suspsnsion is yuppies still manage to wreck them often enough. Muscle cars &

hot rods aside you can still get exotic style performacne for a 1/4 of the cost if

you know what you're doing.

You take an ENZO for $1,000,000

I'll take a $12,000 1965 Shelby Cobra Kit Car Chassis & $88,000 for engine &

chassis build up. There's a good chance the Cobra will surpass the Ferrari if

done up right. massive brakes, lightweight super-fine tunned suspension & a

twin turbo small block chevrolet LS6 and I'm off to the races. :AH-HA_wink:

[balthazar]

These exotic cars shave off seconds in corner speeds, braking speeds as well as acceleration..........you know they are real cars that can handle what the road throws at them............not the case with a tubbed and blown Chevelle at $XXXXXX.XX. Anyone know what people spend to have professionals do a total quality restoration on your typical dream car ? That is exactly what you need to do if you want to compare a classic domestic to a brand new exotic and when your done you will not have 1/10 of the car in total road able prowess. These exotics are made for people that can afford the race proven technology and ultra performance parts and materials they are made out of, then there is far more time put into assembly, more like the time into a restoration.

There is nothing inherantly 'wrong' in many vintage performance cars that would render them incapable of matching & exceeding the performance (in all realms of comparison) to that of many modern domestics. Handling, braking, steering, etc, etc is all readily attainable via the aftermarket. You can still build a -say- '66 Chevelle that will kill a lamborghini for less money. It won't be "1/10th" the car; it could in FACT be '11/10ths' the car.

And just because there's a waiting list for a ferrari or such, and just because it costs $250K, does NOT even remotely guarantee you are getting even $100,000 worth of car.

I've watched people looking at mass-production houses, walking thru them and exclaiming 'This is beautiful' with no earthly idea how to judge quality construction or craftsmanship or how to see obvious errors & shoddy work. Many car buyers are no different.

[Cory Wolfe]

Mmm... Ferraris...

[NOS2006]

Mmm... Ferraris...

167203[/snapback]

x2. Mmm... Ferraris...

[C.H.U.D.]

No Saleen S7?

And this kills me: "Koenigsegg CCX $600,910". Really now... at this stratospherically arbitrary price, what's with the $910 extra??

166377[/snapback]

Hopefully they threw in the fake-wood shift knob at that price!

[razoredge]

There is nothing inherantly 'wrong' in many vintage performance cars that would render them incapable of matching & exceeding the performance (in all realms of comparison) to that of many modern domestics. Handling, braking, steering, etc, etc is all readily attainable via the aftermarket. You can still build a -say- '66 Chevelle that will kill a lamborghini for less money. It won't be "1/10th" the car; it could in FACT be '11/10ths' the car.

And just because there's a waiting list for a ferrari or such, and just because it costs $250K, does NOT even remotely guarantee you are getting even $100,000 worth of car.

I've watched people looking at mass-production houses, walking thru them and exclaiming 'This is beautiful' with no earthly idea how to judge quality construction or craftsmanship or how to see obvious errors & shoddy work. Many car buyers are no different.

167177[/snapback]

No way, sorry, you'll never crank the lateral or decel G force of a purpose engineered sports car from a purpose built family car. Rigid carbon fiber structure and all other engineered jewerly casting come at a cost as well. Not to mention other attributes. See thing is I can appreaciate most cars for their intended purpose..........a quality others may not have.

Sometimes I think its more agitation that GM never ran its own nitch of vehicals for the passed 5 decades, There was never a problem showing the artistic level for the auto shows but usable performance has always been somewhat behind................but.............. how could you afford to advance usuable performance if your not selling some volumn of your most advanced technology to the few at an inflated price. Worked for Ferrari.......barely but thank goodness it did. Aston Martin has always been a liability as with most others. I guess the same could be said for the Millers, Cords, Duesenburgs, Auburns

If only the whole world looked and cost like a Chevelle

heres a cool link for some old school eye candy and one hell of an artist.........the sites concept boys would enjoy this too ! ! ! Worth the time to let it fully load if its going slow, I didnt the first time but when I did I could not believe the quality of his detail.

http://www.khulsey.com/makoto_ouchi_ferrari_166_line.html

Edited July 16, 2006 by razoredge

[balthazar]

How does 1.05 lateral Gs out of a '65 GTO rank in the exotic world?

[Newbiewar]

I wouldn't count on the Blue Devil being quicker nor faster than the Veyron..

166930[/snapback]

GM is looking for the blue devil to be sub 11 seconds in the 1/4 mile... thats enzo & veyron territory... now perhaps its not going to have a W16 motor, but it'll be impressivly fast for the dollar...

[razoredge]

How does 1.05 lateral Gs out of a '65 GTO rank in the exotic world?

167368[/snapback]

It doesnt. It wasnt built. It doesnt even have any relevance and would look foolish on the track against the supercars, I bet it transitions really well too then I doubt theres a list of customers ready to plunk down the hard cash necessary to build such a beast. My old close friend has a 65 he has had since 75, its a beautiful car, its no skate board. Im open minded and realistic, I know peaches taste different than tangerines. Cashews than Almonds

Edited July 16, 2006 by razoredge

[balthazar]

Sure it was built, I have a feature article on it in my library. Did you mean factory-built? Then of course; no it wasn't. That was never the criteria as I interpreted it.

'Look foolish'? IMO if a 40-yr old 'family sedan' is matching the performance of ferraris & the like, it is they that, in comparison, look foolish.

I am again reminded of the '65 Chinetti-supplied ferrari 365 vs. the '65 Pontiac 2+2 roadcourse test: less than a half-second lap time difference on a 2-minute professional course. That was a factory car.

I know: we weren't talking about vintage exotics...

I do so hate the assumptions that follow the exotics around, which seem to primarily rely on 'it costs more because it's better'. Blech.

The protoype engineer on the Ford GT gave a nice 'dis' to ferrari & lamorghini, subtly insulting their chassis/design work. I would be very interested to inspect both.

Nice to see you around again, razor.

[NOS2006]

GM is looking for the blue devil to be sub 11 seconds in the 1/4 mile... thats enzo & veyron territory... now perhaps its not going to have a W16 motor, but it'll be impressivly fast for the dollar...

167369[/snapback]

Yes, for the dollar it will be an amazing package. However, I somehow doubt it being quicker or faster than the Veyron (especially) or the Enzo, but maybe they'll surprise the world..

[razoredge]

Sure it was built, I have a feature article on it in my library. Did you mean factory-built? Then of course; no it wasn't. That was never the criteria as I interpreted it.

'Look foolish'? IMO if a 40-yr old 'family sedan' is matching the performance of ferraris & the like, it is they that, in comparison, look foolish.

I am again reminded of the '65 Chinetti-supplied ferrari 365 vs. the '65 Pontiac 2+2 roadcourse test: less than a half-second lap time difference on a 2-minute professional course. That was a factory car.

I know: we weren't talking about vintage exotics...

I do so hate the assumptions that follow the exotics around, which seem to primarily rely on 'it costs more because it's better'. Blech.

The protoype engineer on the Ford GT gave a nice 'dis' to ferrari & lamorghini, subtly insulting their chassis/design work. I would be very interested to inspect both.

Nice to see you around again, razor.

167388[/snapback]

Half a second per lap is a huge gap and would be a laped car in no time, especially after the Pontiac driver became fatigued, in a 12 or 24 hour race the gap would be huge..........but then Im sure this "2+2" went on to great glory

GT40 became sucessful when it was overseen by one of the few men and crew that could build road course cars in America. He used European sports car chassis design and thought, same as Duntov did (or at least tried to).It was not successful in 64 at 4.2 litres. Not until it went 7 litres, 40% larger than its competition did it gain success. Pontiac would look foolish on a track against a GT40.

Go to a Vintage race and watch the old Euros walk the Vettes, Stangs and Camaros..... These cars actually needed a new groupe or class to compete in because they were cumbersome messes. Im sure this would not happen to a vintage Pontiac however.......

There is no more "assumption" that follows European sports cars around than there is "muscle car" or brass era.

Theres a guy building a 69 or 70 Electra road course car. He has spent a sizeable fortune and is way off performance target. It is a noble effort on a cool car and I applaud him.......however......... He is going to get his butt kicked if he ever does really place it in competitions.......Im sure the car will do a great job jamin up the brake zone and corner at the end of the long straights

[Sixty8panther]

'Look foolish'? IMO if a 40-yr old 'family sedan' is matching the performance of ferraris & the like, it is they that, in comparison, look foolish.

167388[/snapback]

So very true.

I wish I had saved that copy of DuPont Registry w/ the ~240 mph

street legal 3rd Camaro in al white. The guy surpassed everything

except for the McLaren F1 in most performance categories. And in

the grand scheme of thins the 3rd gen. F-body is not a great

starting point for something like that.

Nice to see you around again, razor.

167388[/snapback]

Agreed.... stick around Razor.

[razoredge]

So very true.     

167412[/snapback]

so very untrue, no American family sedan ever "matched" the total performance or engineering level of high end European sports cars. Year for year, decade for decade no match including today. Drag racing and "turn left" is not the domestic strong suit because of road savy, g force denying BOF land yahts. If so the Ford GT40 would have been the Ford Galaxy24LM and Ford could have saved your same fortune in R&D and still won the 66-69 LeMans. Corvette would be an Impala and still going head to head with the worlds best.

Hard to believe the engineers and designers at GM and Ford never realized they could save a fortune on R&D by simply changing rotors and springs on their big sellers and still clean house on the various road circuits.

Edited July 17, 2006 by razoredge

[Sixty8panther]

Razor:

Look, I love drag racing and respect it as a completely different kind

of motorsport than Formula 1 or American LeMans. As far as this

so called "NASCAR" goes I agree... it sucks. It's not a real

motorsport as most of the focus is more on the driver than the car.

The term "STOCK CAR" is the icing on top of the proverbial cake of

hilarity. I'd rather see gutted & roll caged Crown Vics, Chargers &

Impalas duking it out on a circuit or roadcourse any day. Production

based race cars are the kind I like to watch the most, plus it ensures

that I get some cool technology in the trickle down method.

That having been said a 2007 Corvette Z06 can and will kick a LOT

of ass, cars that cost three times as much get their asses handed

in production guise and on the track the C6R does pretty damn well

against your beloved Ferrari, Jaguar & Aston Martin... or whoever.

I think you need to read up on Max Balchowsky & "Old Yeller" if you

don't beleive that a lone Ameriacn car built with junkyard $hit can

embarass the best Europe has to offer.

The Old Yeller cars (at least one & two) were built using junkyard parts

and hand fabricated chassis laid out in chalk on the concrete shop floor

and then driven TO and FROM racing events after the embarassed

Jaguars & MGs at the track. They were powered by Buick V8s... like 401

nailheads no DOHC bull$hit.

---------------

[mjdecker]

No Saleen S7?

Designwise, I've always seen the Saleen S7 as a rip off on the McLaren F1

[razoredge]

Razor:

a 2007 Corvette Z06 can and will kick a LOT

of ass, cars that cost three times as much get their asses handed

in production guise and on the track the C6R does pretty damn well

against your beloved Ferrari, Jaguar & Aston Martin... or whoever.

I think you need to read up on Max Balchowsky & "Old Yeller" if you

don't beleive that a lone Ameriacn car built with junkyard $hit can

embarass the best Europe has to offer.

The Old Yeller cars (at least one & two) were built using junkyard parts

and hand fabricated chassis laid out in chalk on the concrete shop floor

and then driven TO and FROM racing events after the embarassed

Jaguars & MGs at the track. They were powered by Buick V8s... like 401

nailheads no DOHC bull$hit.

---------------

167485[/snapback]

Seems like Im the guy that posts the info regarding GM's recent track endeavers but thanks for the recap. I never called the C4,C5 or C6 Corvette a "crap box". To bad that no one races the Enzo but its more like a street legal Prototype than a GT1 car. Some SPEED program on the Enzo had footage of Schumacher "drifting" at insane speeds, nothing like you see in "drifting" competitions. Then as we all know drifting was invented in Japan............... Wonder what that was we were doing in the 70's..............

Im not crazy about the Enzo from a styling standpoint, I like the little 360 myself which has had limited wins in GT2 but Porsche has primarily dominated that arena since the 70's.......with a car that has the engine in the wrong place......remember. Now at least we have GTO giving Porsche a workout with a much larger engine however, but they handle/brake nearly as good.

Its interesting to hear a 401 nailhead could stomp its way down a straight and jam up the corners against formidable competition as Jaguars DOHC 210 ci I6's and especially the 1.5 litre pushrod cast iron MG's in club races...............I wonder what Ali would have done to Sugar Ray had they gone head to head Max Balchowsky should have hooked up with Duntov.

Hey I get it all, I just wonder if everyone else does

Heres a link to a fairly well know good old days race car builder, Eric Broadley. The cars called Lola :AH-HA_wink: from Britian, mostly used Chevrolet engines and had varied success. Broadley had much to do with GT40 which was fabricated in England too. This is a large page with awsome period pictures. Scroll down until you hit the photos and begin reading the history there, not at the top. It looks like its translated from another language. Its quite interesting to me but I remember many of the names and such. I just read the early years, its alot of Lola info, a complete history it seems.

Notice these cars dont look like American family sedans or two door hardtops either and surely took thousands of man hours and some good coin to build for success. todays "supercars" are far more detailed and complex than these old timers but obvious evolved from the same family of automobiles. This stuff does not come cheap.

Enjoy !

http://www.imca-slotracing.com/Lola%20T70%20Mk3B.htm

Edited July 17, 2006 by razoredge

[balthazar]

Half a second per lap is a huge gap and would be a laped car in no time

A half second per lap advantage on a 2-minute course would require 240 laps for the quicker car to pass the slower one. That's EIGHT HOURS of driving (240 laps x 2 minutes). Hardly "huge".

Sure, in a 24-hour scenario, that's something to contend with. In a one-to-one comparison (in other words: one lengthy & varied lap on a road course) of handling, braking & acceleration, it's virtually nothing.

Edited July 17, 2006 by balthazar

[razoredge]

it's virtually nothing.

167697[/snapback]

Until the guy wrestling the "LeMans" begins to become fatigued and his speed starts falling off. Like I said its not like GM could not have built more complex supercars and sold them at inflated prices to help advance the technology but they choose not to. Duntov had to fight to get fuel injection. According to the reading Ive done Corvette was barely all they could handle and the first Corvette came in over the price of a Jag. Mustabeen an exotic in its day.

[balthazar]

'Fatigue' is a component of the driver, not the car. It's an unknown and unpredictable factor, if any factor at all. Immaterial.

Point was, the (domestic) 'family-sedan'-based car was able to virtually match the performance of a 'pedigreed' car costing many times more the price. That is certainly not an embarassment to the 'family sedan'...

I don't wish to get knee-deep in a heated argument here. Mutual respect would be an excellent 'white flag': both 'camps' have had formidable, successful machines that greatly advanced their street products. You know what you know and I know what I know. Can we leave it at that?

[razoredge]

Designwise, I've always seen the Saleen S7 as a rip off on the McLaren F1

167669[/snapback]

I dont think its to close, thats how that family of cars is shaped and formated, just like looking at most family cars since the 70's.

Its to bad Saleen is not doing better in endurance racing, I would hate to see them fail and throw in the hat. Thats some expensive venture building that kind of car.

[razoredge]

'Fatigue' is a component of the driver, not the car. It's an unknown and unpredictable factor, if any factor at all. Immaterial.

167715[/snapback]

fatigue is a component of the handling and drivablity characteristics of the car as the driver presses closer to the edge trying to keep up with that which is walking away from him, then next thing you know someone is flying off the track, now your loosing seconds or even minutes or out. You can see it happen especially with the production based cars. Thats what was happening to the Vipers for a few seasons against the Factory LS6 C5R Vettes, next thing you know theres a Viper flyin off the track, until they gave up ALMS. They still do alright againt the LS2 based private Corvettes in other series that are more sprint orientated.

Like I said "I get it", Im just not sure everyone else does. Well....... I dont get that Brass era thing

Edited July 18, 2006 by razoredge

[Sixty8panther]

Enjoy !

http://www.imca-slotracing.com/Lola%20T70%20Mk3B.htm

167694[/snapback]

Great link. I love vintage photography.

Love the "Switzerland Racing" Suburban.

I barelly knew the meat & potatos of the

Lola story but their cars were often

more beautiful than Ferraris' or Jaguars'.

Now as far as this exotic thing, in trashing

the price of the blue-flame powered Vette

just remember GM is best at one thing:

Making the every day mortal feel like he's

not driving a $hitbox. That's their greatest

acomplishment really... great cars for the

masses at decent prices. Once in a while

they build some "exotic" stuff...

1930s: V16 Caddys

1950s: Eldorado Brougham

1960s: ZL1 cars

1990s: ZR1 Vettes

You get the point.

At any rate I'd MUCH ratehr see them

concentrate on building a $26,000 base

V8 Camaro that's super-close to the 06

Concept than making some pie in the

sky V12 powered supercar... thay're a

dime a dozen (in terms of numbers)

The only exotic GM raelly MUST build is

the SIXTEEN. This car needs to show

the world that GM is serious about

sticking around for many years to come.

Decka:

I can't even look at a Saleen S7 emblem

without thinking how baddly the car ripped

off the lines, doors, rear, front, design

language & so much more cosmetically off

the McLaren F1. Plus for half a million $$$

there's no excise for all the Mustang

bits on the car, like interiro trim, door

handles & other cosmetic stuff.

To me the S7 has always looked like a

retarded fat cousin of the F1.... with 78

extra gills.

To each his own.

[razoredge]

I dont see it. The Saleen looks no more like the McLaren than it does the old 917 shorttail or those Lolas. This is what a midengine supercar looks like. Low short angled hood lower than the wheels, Humps to accomodate wheels and headlights. seriously raked and rounded windshield, 2 doors, aerodynamic roof, long lead into rear wheel due to engine location, nice pipes exiting stage rear, 4 wheels & tires, topped with sheet metal loaded with more air vents than your average chicken farm.

Voila !