Japan Mulls Legality of N. Korea Strike

[VenSeattle]

Japan Mulls Legality of N. Korea Strike

By MARI YAMAGUCHI

AP

TOKYO (AP) - Japan said Monday it was considering whether a pre-emptive strike on the North's missile bases would violate its constitution, signaling a hardening stance ahead of a possible U.N. Security Council vote on Tokyo's proposal for sanctions against the regime.

Japan was badly rattled by North Korea's missile tests last week, and several government officials openly discussed whether the country ought to take steps to better defend itself, including setting up the legal framework to allow Tokyo to launch a pre-emptive strike against Northern missile sites.

"If we accept that there is no other option to prevent an attack ... there is the view that attacking the launch base of the guided missiles is within the constitutional right of self-defense. We need to deepen discussion," Chief Cabinet Secretary Shinzo Abe said.

Japan's constitution bars the use of military force in settling international disputes and prohibits Japan from maintaining a military for warfare. Tokyo has interpreted that to mean it can have armed troops to protect itself, allowing the existence of its 240,000-strong Self-Defense Forces.

A Defense Agency spokeswoman, however, said Japan has no offensive weapons such as ballistic missiles that could reach North Korea. Its forces only have ground-to-air missiles and ground-to-vessel missiles, she said on condition of anonymity because of official policy.

Japanese fighter jets and pilots are not capable of carrying out such an attack, a military analyst said.

"Japan's air force is top class in defending the nation's airspace, but attacking another country is almost impossible," said analyst Kazuhisa Ogawa.

"Even if Japan's planes made it to North Korea, they wouldn't make it back ... it would be an act of suicide," he said. "Japan has no capacity to wage war."

Despite resistance from China and Russia, Japan has pushed for a U.N. Security Council resolution that would bar nations from buying or otherwise receiving missile-related items, materials goods and technology from North Korea. A vote was possible later Monday, but Japan said it would not insist on one.

"It's important for the international community to express a strong will in response to the North Korean missile launches," Abe said. "This resolution is an effective way of expressing that."

China and Russia, both nations with veto power on the council, have voiced opposition to the measure. Kyodo News agency reported Monday, citing unidentified Chinese diplomatic sources, that China may use its veto on the Security Council to block the resolution.

The United States, Britain and France have expressed support for the proposal, while Japanese Foreign Minister Taro Aso has said there is a possibility that Russia will abstain.

South Korea, not a council member, has not publicly taken a position on the resolution, but on Sunday Seoul rebuked Japan for its outspoken criticism of the tests.

"There is no reason to fuss over this from the break of dawn like Japan, but every reason to do the opposite," a statement from President Roh Moo-hyun's office said, suggesting that Tokyo was contributing to tensions on the Korean Peninsula.

Abe said Monday it was "regrettable" that South Korea had accused Japan of overreacting.

"There is no mistake that the missile launch ... is a threat to Japan and the region. It is only natural for Japan to take measures of risk management against such a threat," Abe said.

Meanwhile, a Chinese delegation including the country's top nuclear envoy - Vice Foreign Minister Wu Dawei - arrived Monday in North Korea, officially to attend celebrations marking the 45th anniversary of a friendship treaty between the North and China.

The U.S. is urging Beijing to push its communist ally back into six-party nuclear disarmament talks, but the Chinese government has not said whether Wu would bring up the negotiations. A ministry spokeswoman said last week that China was "making assiduous efforts" in pushing for the talks to resume.

Talks have been deadlocked since November because of a boycott by Pyongyang in protest of a crackdown by Washington on the regime's alleged money-laundering and other financial crimes.

Beijing has suggested an informal gathering of the six nations, which could allow the North to technically stand by its boycott, but at the same time meet with the other five parties - South Korea, China, the U.S., Japan and Russia. The U.S. has backed the idea and said Washington could meet with the North on the sidelines of such a meeting.

Still, U.S. Assistant Secretary of State Christopher Hill questioned just how influential Beijing was with the enigmatic regime.

"I must say the issue of China's influence on DPRK is one that concerns us," Hill told reporters in Tokyo. "China said to the DPRK, 'Don't fire those missiles,' but the DPRK fired them. So I think everybody, especially the Chinese, are a little bit worried about it."

The DPRK refers to the North's official name, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.

Hill is touring the region to coordinate strategy on North Korea. He has emphasized the need for countries involved to present a united front.

"We want to make it very clear that we all speak in one voice on this provocative action by the North Koreans to launch missiles in all shapes and sizes," Hill said. "We want to make it clear to North Korea that what it did was really unacceptable."

Associated Press writers Audra Ang in Beijing and Chisaki Watanabe in Tokyo contributed to this report.

Link to Article

[Flybrian]

A faction in Japan's government desperately wants to rearm in a serious fashion, even to the point of developing atomic weapons. Such would not be technically difficult for Japan because of their advanced breeder reactor technology; its said that they could field usable nuclear weapons in under a year, if they haven't secretly done so already. During the '60s and '70s the Japanese government all but made it known that becoming an offensive nuclear state is a matter of choice.

A North Korean attack against any outside nation would certainly result in total and complete devestation for what's left of their country. As insane as they are, they know this and its much more reasonable to saber-rattle to get their way in terms of monetary aid. Even the Russians and Chinese think DPRK is nuts. China has been sending them aid via rail and lately, the Koreans have been keeping the locomotives and all while sending the engineers back, claiming the equipment was part of the aid package. North Korean diplomats have been arrested in New Zealand or Australia for traffiking heroin. This stuff is completely off the wall for any normal country.

[loki]

there are even reports that the missles that failed from the test were aimed at hawaii. if N.K. keeps attempting these tests, things will not look good for them in the near future.

[76ChevyTrucker]

Well think about it, most of the farm land in North Korea is in the nothern parts of the country and that's where North Korea's major nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons testing sites are. Therefore, they can't grow their own crops except in the low lands which get flooded out every year during the rains. With that, they have to ask for help from everyone, although I believe that there is probably a substantial amount of food and other aid stockpiled in North Korean military bases so that even though the common people starve, the military and Party members can still live high on the hog. I really don't think that Japan should necessarily attack North Korea over the issue, although I can definitely see where they're coming from.

Really and truly we should have let McArthur do his job back in '52 and just nuke 'em...

[FAPTurbo]

Really and truly we should have let McArthur do his job back in '52 and just nuke 'em...

165080[/snapback]

Funny you say that, cause I say that almost on a bi-weekly basis!

I remember saying that in Grade 12 History a year ago, and all the self proclaimed "Doves" couldn't stop screaming at me.

And I figure it'll be China that'll get pissed off at them and strike, not Japan, U.S., or South Korea.

Edited July 11, 2006 by Captainbooyah

[76ChevyTrucker]

I'll say this. We shouldn't have stopped Patton in WWII when he reached Germany, we should have let him march right on and fight the Russians and we should have let MacArthur and Nimitz take care of the Japanese then move straight to the Chinese and Koreans. I say that they could have met in India and had tea with the British.

[Guest YellowJacket894]

North Korea really is a pathedic country. And because they just had to choose Communism over Freedom.

And, if anyone here thinks I'm "stupid" or "old-fashioned," please realize that Communism is a failed system.

The Korean countries, North Korea and South Korea, are vastly different places. North Korea is considered as either a Third World (Undeveloped) country. People there are usually poor or not on par with the Middle Class in the U.S. However, South Korea is a prosperous country and people have the chance to be very wealthy. And this is all on the same slab of land.

I see no threat in North Korea. Whatever $h! they try to pull will end in their demise and carry poor consequences for innocent South Korea. I'm happy we are on good terms with Japan; they by all means can bring a very near end to a possible war with N.K. because of how quick they can develop defensive weapons such as nuclear missiles, etc.

Edited July 11, 2006 by YellowJacket894

[76ChevyTrucker]

I agree with you YJ, I really do. Although this has gone on long enough both of my Grandfathers' served in Korea from 50-53 and seeing this really stirs up my only remaning Grandfather because he's been there once already....

[Flybrian]

Honestly, I feel bad for the North Korean populace. Remember, all these people know is what their government tells them. Even during the Cold War, many Soviets and Chinese either remember or began to see what the West was really like. In North Korea, the people are not afforded such opportunities. People live in a constant state of destitution while schoolchildren are paraded through museums proudly displaying half-century-old wreckage of American fighters as if this happened yesterday. They view the South as their brothers forced against their will into an evil alliance with the Americans, who are bloodthirsty and rape and pillage. The leadership knows the truth, but the people do not.

South Korea could easily defend themselves against any invasion by the North. They're equipped with variants of second-line American jets and a highly-trained and regimented military force.

The fear I would have for North Korean is their marketing of missile technology to other nations in the Middle East. Themselves, they are a hollow threat. Consider these recent launches of medium-range rockets to be demonstration flights for Syria, Iran, Pakistan, and Lybia.

[76ChevyTrucker]

Hey fly, I don't zactly call F-15s and F-16s "second-line" jets. Now some of their other planes, yes they are truly "second line" but the Eagle and Fighting Falcon are front-line combat-ready fighters. Another thing that the South Koreans have is the THAAD (Theatre High-Altitude Air Defense) variant of the Patriot missile, designed specifically to intercept ICBMs, SRBMs, and MRBMs.

[Flybrian]

Hey fly, I don't zactly call F-15s and F-16s "second-line" jets.  Now some of their other planes, yes they are truly "second line" but the Eagle and Fighting Falcon are front-line combat-ready fighters.  Another thing that the South Koreans have is the THAAD (Theatre High-Altitude Air Defense) variant of the Patriot missile, designed specifically to intercept ICBMs, SRBMs, and MRBMs.

165099[/snapback]

My mistake. I neglected the Block 60 F-16s and Strike Eagles they do have in addition to the F-5s and F-4s. Though, I think even the F-4s would fare well against the North's air force because they'd be fighting against the same jets they did in Vietnam!

[76ChevyTrucker]

You could say that again fly. The F-4 Phantom is a tough bird, sure it can't turn tighter than a modern fighter, but the only other plane that beats it in a vertical fight is the F-15 which was the plane to naturally replace it anyway. From what I've read most of North Korea's fighter forces consist of MiG-21s, MiG-23s and -27s, and and smattering of MiG-29s and Su-27s, nothing really to worry with. Of course there are still numerous MiG-19s and MiG-17s flying too.

[Flybrian]

You could say that again fly.  The F-4 Phantom is a tough bird, sure it can't turn tighter than a modern fighter, but the only other plane that beats it in a vertical fight is the F-15 which was the plane to naturally replace it anyway.  From what I've read most of North Korea's fighter forces consist of MiG-21s, MiG-23s and -27s, and and smattering of MiG-29s and Su-27s, nothing really to worry with.  Of course there are still numerous MiG-19s and MiG-17s flying too.

165113[/snapback]

Negative on the Sukhois, Ghostrider. That's right, the only new jets they've gotten as of late are the Chinese Chendgu variants of first-generation MiGs. Its a very pathetically-equipped force. Lord knows what percentage are combat-ready.

[76ChevyTrucker]

somewhere close to nill. probably have canabalized most of the aircraft so that they can mantain what few they DO have.

[sciguy_0504]

I fear NK giving its missile and nuclear technology to the Islamofacists. World War IV would become so bad even liberals would have to admit we are fighting for our lives.

Sorry, just a joke. Sort of.

I would not put it past the NK leader to use the technology himself.

[Drew Dowdell]

During the '60s and '70s the Japanese government all but made it known that becoming an offensive nuclear state is a matter of choice.

165010[/snapback]

I am interested in the history here fly... any place I can read more about this?

[Sixty8panther]

More evidence that it's the small guys you gotta watch out for.

NAPOLEON

HITLER

STALIN

KIM JONG IL

Perhaps the whole country of No. Korea has a Napoleon Complex.

[Flybrian]

I am interested in the history here fly... any place I can read more about this?

165186[/snapback]

Japanese Nuclear Weapons Program @ FAS.org

Also note the Japanese ISAS' (space program) M-5 rocket is strikingly modeled after our Peacekeeper ICBM. Its also one of the few space exploration rockets today that is solid-fueled, which provides the advantage of remaining dormant for longer periods of time and then launched in a moment's notice. Keep in mind that many of our early space rockets were derived from ballistic missiles, so the reverse is not out of the question at all.

[CARBIZ]

I've never understood the mood the current American administration is in. Why does the U.S. spend billions of dollars every year protecting South Korea and Japan? In the Grand Scheme of Things, who cares?

With all the billions spent, what is in it for America? If you talk to the students in South Korea, many of the protests are against the U.S., as if it is the Americans fault the Koreas are divided. I saw a quote in the "venerable" Toronto Star yesterday that had students saying they hope for reunification and would bomb America if she ever tried to invade. That's gratitude for ya!

Let the Asians figure out there own problems. They have nothing that we need anyway, not like oil, for example.

Or do we need cheap, imported cars that badly?

[the_yellow_dart]

I can see hostility directed towards North Korea here. Perfectly justified. However, what I don't get is the hint of anti-Japanese and anti-Chinese sentiments here. I'm not going to argue about Russia here, becuase I'm still not sure how real the threat of the Cold War really was. However, the war with Japan was so long ago - everything has changed since then.

What baffles me is that some people have forgiven Germany but not Japan - racism at its' worst.

I will be interested to see how the 2008 Beijing olympics go. Attitudes in China have changed DRASTICALLY over the last 30 or so years. China is no longer truly communism. They learned from the Soviet Union that hanging on to communism 'til the bitter end is suicide. Monetary freedom (capitalism) is slowly creeping in. Sure, there are still communist jobs for those who can't find capitalist jobs - but even the USA has welfare! At least these people are doing something (in the worst case, sweeping the streets), rather than just sitting there collecting a cheque. As this monetary freedom spreads and the average person becomes self-sufficient and buys cars, etc. freedom spreads. Political freedom will follow. In large cities you can already see the seeds of change. Falun Gong was a religion outlawed by the government in recent years. Even that is no longer 'taboo', there was a tent in Beijing when I was there handing out information. Nobody was hassling them, and there were soldiers from the Chinese Army right across the street. Those of you who remember Tienanmen Square as the site of the massacre would be shocked to see the state of politics in China now. Remember, that happened in 1989. For such a large country, they are changing shockingly fast.

I will be interested to see how they handle the 2008 olympics. It is a big opportunity for them to present the modern China to the world, and hope that it changes a few minds.

[the_yellow_dart]

I've never understood the mood the current American administration is in.  Why does the U.S. spend billions of dollars every year protecting South Korea and Japan?  In the Grand Scheme of Things, who cares?

  With all the billions spent, what is in it for America?  If you talk to the students in South Korea, many of the protests are against the U.S., as if it is the Americans fault the Koreas are divided.  I saw a quote in the "venerable" Toronto Star yesterday that had students saying they hope for reunification and would  bomb America if she ever tried to invade.  That's gratitude for ya!

  Let the Asians figure out there own problems.  They have nothing that we need anyway, not like oil, for example. 

  Or do we need cheap, imported cars that badly?

165261[/snapback]

You can't take the opinions of some as the opinions of the country, and more importantly, the government. I went to Ottawa a couple years ago when Bush made his first visit to Canada. Now let me make this clear. I hate George Bush but have no problem with the US in general. Some of the people there and what they were saying however, made it clear that there ARE Canadians who HATE the US with every ounce they have. That doesn't mean that Canadians in general have a problem with the US, or that the US should stop relations with Canada...

[Drew Dowdell]

Japanese Nuclear Weapons Program @ FAS.org

Also note the Japanese ISAS' (space program) M-5 rocket is strikingly modeled after our Peacekeeper ICBM. Its also one of the few space exploration rockets today that is solid-fueled, which provides the advantage of remaining dormant for longer periods of time and then launched in a moment's notice. Keep in mind that many of our early space rockets were derived from ballistic missiles, so the reverse is not out of the question at all.

165252[/snapback]

Thank you for that. Very interesting read.

[76ChevyTrucker]

Yeah, our first generation space vehicles were originally Red Stone and Atlas ICBM's, then came the Saturn V, the first, non-military-based booster system (too bad the plans were destroyed after all the V's were built). Then came the STS program that we have today.

[sciguy_0504]

I've never understood the mood the current American administration is in.  Why does the U.S. spend billions of dollars every year protecting South Korea and Japan?  In the Grand Scheme of Things, who cares?

  With all the billions spent, what is in it for America?  If you talk to the students in South Korea, many of the protests are against the U.S., as if it is the Americans fault the Koreas are divided.  I saw a quote in the "venerable" Toronto Star yesterday that had students saying they hope for reunification and would  bomb America if she ever tried to invade.  That's gratitude for ya!

  Let the Asians figure out there own problems.  They have nothing that we need anyway, not like oil, for example. 

  Or do we need cheap, imported cars that badly?

165261[/snapback]

It is not just the current administration, it has been every administration since the Korean War unofficially ended (technically, we are still at war). Previous administrations (minus Clinton and Bush 41) supported Japan and SK from the Commie threat posed by NK, China and Russia, plus the fall of countries in SE Asia to Communism. Democracy had to be present in that part of the world somehow.

After they were nuked, Japan completely renounced war. They barely have the ability to carry out a preemptive strike on NK let alone actively go to war with NK and fight on Korean soil. The Japanese Self-Defense Forces are well equipped to defend the homeland, not fight overseas. I suspect that will be changing in the near future, especially in light of Japan's problems with China and NK. It took a long time for Japan to organize and properly equip military and police forces so they signed a defense agreement with the U.S. That agreement covered external and internal threats. U.S. servicemen and women were actually used as a police force in Japan until the country could be rebuilt and demilitarized then somewhat remilitarized. Only the external threat part of that agreement exists now, I believe.

I have noticed many young South Koreans have an anti-U.S. attitude but middle-aged and older citizens are very thankful. The U.S. is pulling the majority of its troops out of South Korea, however. All it takes is a few NK missiles or tank shells and that attitude would be wiped away fairly quickly, though. Perhaps that is what needs to happen?

Like it has been mentioned before, NK has nuclear warheads but they do not have a proper delivery system (missile) for them. Iran, on the other hand, has a proper delivery system but does not have warheads. Both would not think twice about giving these weapons to Islamofacists, which have added another battlefield to their already long list: Mumbai, India. I would not put it past either to use them, as well. That is why neither can obtain the appropriate technology.

[Sixty8panther]

What baffles me is that some people have forgiven Germany but not Japan - racism at its' worst.

165263[/snapback]

Germany did not throw the first punch. They were a lot of things,

evil & ruled by a mad man who managed to get complete

absolution of all civilian firearms while building up the Third Reich

and manipulating the whole country into turning their frustration

at their poverty & anger over the injustices of WWI into hatred.

They were pretty transparent about their quest for world

dominance and all their nationalist propaganda. Japan on the

other hand is sending us fu$%ing peace metals & all kinds of B.S.

promises are made in terms of the USA & Japan not entering

into conflict and then they bomb Pearl Harbor with one of the

dirtiest sneak attacks in human history? We sustained all kinds of

civilian casualties and hundreds of sailors lost their lives in a most

undeserved way....

Now the Germans were pretty up-front about their intentions.

As far as human atrocities & civil rights violations I think the

Germans and Japanese were pretty well tied. The Germans in

their @nal retentive style had recorded every damn thing they

had done... every life that was lost was accounted for.

Stalin on the other hand would make Japan & Germany look almost

mild by comparison. There was no documentation &/or a clear

systematic order of documentation by Stalin. Thousands died and

nothing was done about it. Then millions died and no one cared...

still nothing was done about it.

History is much deeper than a 280 page textbook from H.S.

[Flybrian]

History is much deeper than a 280 page textbook from H.S. 

165380[/snapback]

And this is just as bad...

Germany did not throw the first punch.

Instead of saying you're retarded for not recognizing the invasions of over a half-dozen countries by allied German/Soviet/Italian forces, I'll say you're retarded for not realizing Germany declared war on the United States first on December 11, 1941 even though it didn't even have to under the Tripartite Pact.

They were a lot of things,

evil & ruled by a mad man who managed to get complete

absolution of all civilian firearms while building up the Third Reich

and manipulating the whole country into turning their frustration

at their poverty & anger over the injustices of WWI into hatred.

How exactly is this different from the Imperial Japanese government doing the exact same thing with its own citizenry, only instead of this perceived 'injustice'(??) from the First World War, it was racial hatred of the Chinese and Koreans mixed with fears of imperialistic US/UK expansion into East Asia?

They were pretty transparent about their quest for world

dominance and all their nationalist propaganda. Japan on the

other hand is sending us fu$%ing peace metals & all kinds of B.S.

promises are made in terms of the USA & Japan not entering

into conflict and then they bomb Pearl Harbor with one of the

dirtiest sneak attacks in human history? We sustained all kinds of

civilian casualties and hundreds of sailors lost their lives in a most

undeserved way....

I could write a book on how stupid this statement is. US-Japanese relations were deteriorating for years before the attack on Pearl, mainly due to a serious of oil and scrap embargos against the Japanese showing our protest for their invasion of Manchuria. Rather than and unprovoked attack, its more realistic to see Pearl Harbor as the result of a long line of low-level political and military conflicts between the US and Japan. Also remember that Pearl Harbor was one of a series of near simultaneous attacks by the Japanese that included the Phillippines and Wake Island.

As far as Pearl Harbor goes, we were stupid enough to ignore copious warning signs for hours, days, months, and years...even a full decade prior to the attack. Also, the entire Pacific Fleet was on general alert in the waning months of 1941 because we suspected there may be a Japanese attack coming. The Japanese never did formally declare war, but they broke off diplomatic negotiations with the US prior to the attack. And we all know you don't have to declare war to go to war.

Now the Germans were pretty up-front about their intentions.

As far as human atrocities & civil rights violations I think the

Germans and Japanese were pretty well tied. The Germans in

their @nal retentive style had recorded every damn thing they

had done... every life that was lost was accounted for.

Not every life lost was accounted for by any one nation. That's just impossible. However, it can be said that while Germany as a nation has more or less atoned for their sins, Japan hasn't. I've said this before in other threads and maintain that the Japanese goverment still needs to be more forthcoming in apologizing the to the victims of its own Asian holocaust

Stalin on the other hand would make Japan & Germany look almost

mild by comparison. There was no documentation &/or a clear

systematic order of documentation by Stalin. Thousands died and

nothing was done about it. Then millions died and no one cared...

still nothing was done about it.

The difference between Stalin and the Holocaust and Japanese 'rapes' of China is arguably the brutality involved. Stalin killed alot of people frequently and consistantly while the sheer nature of how the Germans and Japanese killed many of their internees was beyond compehension.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sure seems like you're trying to make Germany less culpable than Japan for its actions during WWII. If this is true, I can only shake my head.

As for Yellow Dart's original statement, its true (and sad) that Asians are the most foreign of foreigners and America's treatment of those of Asian descent is equally deplorable in many regards to the treatment of blacks, hispanics, and other minorities.