Cranked Car Windows are going, going...

[Robert Hall]

Interesting little article..

USA Today article on cranked car windows

[Flybrian]

Being spoiled with power windows, that Corolla CE I rented was a pain in the ass, especially when someone forgot to roll up the rear windows. I never really gave it a thought before. And I also find it funny the Corolla XRS has cranks...isn't that the 'underground' peformance Corolla? Or not apparently?

[Drew Dowdell]

And I also find it funny the Corolla XRS has cranks...isn't that the 'underground' peformance Corolla? Or not apparently?

cranks are lighter weight....

[aaaantoine]

The one benefit I see to manual windows is that they can be rolled down without battery power, such as when the car is turned off.

Although I imagine many cars now continue to provide juice after the car is turned off, until someone opens a door.

[Flybrian]

cranks are lighter weight....

Yeah, but its a Corolla. Its not exactly the most stable car on the road.

[Sixty8panther]

F%&k power windows, to hell with AC being standard &

screw having no manual option: as in with THREE pedals

and a H-pattern shifter.

I wish American manufacturers would still let the

consumer decide what he wants or does not want instead

of showing one option down our throats (power windows)

while not giving us the options we DO want... 5/6 speed.

Some stupid focus group decides that only 8% of people

want a 6-speed in the XLR or STS so GM decides to offer

0.00% of those cars with a manual.

[Flybrian]

The fact is, few American consumers that buy new cars would willingly do without power windows and a/c. This is like saying "screw power-assisted brakes and power steering because I want choice." Its borderline retarded in today's market.

Besides, try shipping some cars south of the Mason-Dixon without a/c. See how many you sell.

[Sixty8panther]

This is like saying "screw power-assisted brakes and power steering because I want choice." Its borderline retarded in today's market.

That annalogy is retarded... power windows have no bearing

on safety or the ability to steer/stop/operate a car.

NO harm is giving the option for crank windows on cars where

it makes sense... I'd prefer crank windows on my Datsun if

given the chance since it's a beater and I hate slow power

windows. The 5th Camaro? Well... it's a hardtop so I'll take

power for ease of rolling down all four.

[aaaantoine]

You're right. That's not the best analogy.

It'd probably be more of the equivalent to "screw auto-seek features and digital tuners. I want an analog radio!!"

Because nothing beats trying to fine-tune your radio knob to try and get a weak signal...

People would rather have power windows than reach across the car to roll down the window on the other side. And what if it's a BIG CAR? People would also rather have power mirrors and door locks for the same reason.

[Ravenfreak13]

THe saturn seems so old now... It is an annoyance to have to twist and contort around the front seats just to open the back windows.

[CaddyXLR-V]

I hate crank windows. My 97 Grand Am had them. I put the passenger side window up, started driving home, got on the highway, and it started whistling because it wasn't all the way up. So then I had to do a balancing act trying to put it the rest of the way up while driving, and since the crank is low on the doors, it wasn't very easy to reach.

I like to drive with all the windows down, so they need to be power for me.

[samuel]

cranks are lighter weight....

No, they're not. Power windows weigh less. The manual crank assembly weighs more than its powered counterpart. Edited July 6, 2006 by samuel

[Cremazie]

Besides, try shipping some cars south of the Mason-Dixon without a/c. See how many you sell.

I don't see many people buying cars without A/C anywhere anymore. I know some dealers bring is some without a/c but they sit on the lot for a long time before someone comes in and is attracted to the low price without a/c.

Now in the meantime.. there maybe a market for cars that are bare bones.. no power brakes, steering, a/c, windows, stereo. Maybe only 1%.. even at that rate that could add up to 160,000 cars a year. My aunt is always complaining that you cannot get barebones anymore.. she drives 2000km a year. and keeps her car 15 years... her `95 neon was the first car she bought with power brakes and hates that she doesn't feel like she is physically slowing the car down.

[Sixty8panther]

A 5th gen. ZL1 Camaro with power windows would be lame...

I want a 5th gen. with the LS7 & a 6-speed manual.

AC, CD player & fog lights will be the only options I'll get.

[balthazar]

I was just pondering PW today while driving home.

I have no problem with either and yes: I would prefer a choice here. I know it goes against common perception, but not everyone wants PW.

My '94 F-150 has cranks (regular cab) and I prefer them there. My '04 2500HD has PW and they are a bit fussy what with the express down feature on the fronts and all. But that's a Crew Cab, so there is a bit more reason to have PW.

My '64 GP has PW and they are hot whether the key is in or not. That's a great feature that you don't get today.

I grew up with too many crank-window vehicles so I like those fine. Most people are far too lazy as it is. I know, I know: it's 'convinience', not laziness. Right.

[mustang84]

My 1990 Lumina Euro was a stripper model...no power windows or locks, AC Delco AM/FM radio only (no cassette), and no ABS. I can remember times where I'd start driving and want my passenger window down, so I'd lean over the bench seat and had long enough arms to actually crank it down...while driving. I never did it on busy/high speed streets...just usually on my residential street shortly after I'd pulled out of the driveway.

Strange to think that my kids someday probably won't know how to operate a crank window, either.

[Northstar]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but why would you not want PW? I can see not wanting them if you have to pay for them, but what's wrong with them if they're free?

[97regalGS]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but why would you not want PW? I can see not wanting them if you have to pay for them, but what's wrong with them if they're free?

163562[/snapback]

cause god intended all cars to be RWD, BOF, manual transmission, no A/C with crank windows. it says so in John 5:13.

and don't try to tell me I need snow tires neither. those are for wussies. why i remember driving my '68 back from a day at the track with racing slicks thru 6 feet of snow in the middle of the worst snowstorm/freezing rain the eastern seaborad has ever seen, and I was passing FWD, ricer pieces of $h! like they were standing still. in fact, i rolled down the passenger window just so I could spit at them as I drove past them..............................

[balthazar]

>>"what's wrong with them if they're free?"<<

- They break more often than manual windows, and when they do they're far more expensive to replace/repair.

- They do not work unless the key is in- requiring you to go get/dig out the key if it's not in your hand right then.

- IMO- The express feature demands more attention/time if you want the window anywhere other than all the way up or down.

- Some vehicles' PWs are too tempermental- audi's 'obstruction reverse' PWs get befuddled by cold weather (frost in the tracks?).

- Tho it's not a concern of mine, some will quote safety issues if the car is electrically-disabled.

The button-operated aspect of PW is not the problem for those who may prefer non-PW in particular vehicles, but some of the above may likely be.

[daves87rs]

You'll understand why not everyone wants power window....when...

You are TRAPPED in a car..

I was in a buddy's Plymouth(dodge?) Breeze during a nasty storm, we drove by a

power line that was struck by lightning.....and a the car just goes Dead! On the road! His car was loaded-it even had a power moonroof.

It fried everything in the car.

We were finally able to push the driver's side window down so we could get out.

Was it ever freaky...

My cars have cranks, but only because they're Cavaliers....

(didn't want to waste the extra money..)

But I agree there should be choice-though I am fine with PWs.....

But I'd Carry a glass breaking hammer just in case.....

[knightfan26917]

I admit I miss PW in my daily driver. Yet, I'm MUCH happier driving what I'm driving now ... than something that was advertising my evil twin being here.

Tally...

'72 MC ... manual windows

'76 MC Landau ... PW

'79 MC Landau ... PW

'81 MC SC ... manual

'87 MC LS ... manual

Former '97 malibu ... PW

Former '00 mc LS ... PW

Former '88 MC LS ... PW

Cort, "Mr MC" / "Mr Road Trip", 32swm/pig valve/pacemaker

MC:family.IL.guide.future = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort/

Models.HO = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort/trainroom.html

"Nothing's quite the same now" ... Vertical Horizon ... 'Best I Ever Had'

[scharmer05]

You'll understand why not everyone wants  power window....when...

You are TRAPPED in a car..

I was in a buddy's Plymouth(dodge?)  Breeze during a nasty storm, we drove by a

power line that was struck by lightning.....and a the car just goes Dead! On the road! His car was loaded-it even had a power moonroof.

It fried everything in the car.

We were finally able to push the driver's side window down so we could get out.

Was it ever freaky...

163613[/snapback]

I don't understand....why couldn't you open the doors?

[lakefire]

I don't mind my crank windows in my 2004 Dodge Dakota. You can actually roll them down faster than power windows and they should only break when my elbow breaks. Also, over time power windows really start to slow down to an annoying level.

The only downside to cranks is when you want to roll down any other windows in the car/truck.

[Robert Hall]

The fact is, few American consumers that buy new cars would willingly do without power windows and a/c. This is like saying "screw power-assisted brakes and power steering because I want choice." Its borderline retarded in today's market.

Besides, try shipping some cars south of the Mason-Dixon without a/c. See how many you sell.

163365[/snapback]

I couldn't imagine having a car w/o A/C anywhere in the US except maybe Alaska...everywhere I've lived (Fla, Oh, Mi, Ill, Co, Az) I've used the A/C.

I haven't had a car w/o A/C, power windows, power brakes, power steering for 20 years.

To me, cranked windows in modern cars seem like a feature from the automotive past--as out of place today as features like AM radios, carburators, live rear axles, BOF construction, etc. would be, IMHO...

[The O.C.]

The fact is, few American consumers that buy new cars would willingly do without power windows and a/c. This is like saying "screw power-assisted brakes and power steering because I want choice." Its borderline retarded in today's market.

Besides, try shipping some cars south of the Mason-Dixon without a/c. See how many you sell.

163365[/snapback]

And it's cheaper to engineer a vehicle with only one window system.....and since the majority of people want POWER windows, that's the system that the manufacturers are more likely to develop.

[The O.C.]

No, they're not. Power windows weigh less. The manual crank assembly weighs more than its powered counterpart.

163413[/snapback]

This is actually true.....

[The O.C.]

I don't understand....why couldn't you open the doors?

163685[/snapback]

[Ravenfreak13]

Yeah, the only good thing about cranks is that you can open the windows when the car is off.

Although I much prefer pw, lucky i have them in the PLYMOUTH breeze.

[thedriver]

I don't know if this is the case anymore, but there have been cars that have all power locks and windows WITHOUT interior pulls. There was a famous case of a friend of Frank Sinatra in the late '80's who burned to death in his Jaguar that when the power cut out due to the fire, couldn't get out. Seems like a big safety liability issue to me. .

[97regalGS]

I don't know if this is the case anymore, but there have been cars that have all power locks and windows WITHOUT interior pulls. There was a famous case of a friend of Frank Sinatra in the late '80's who burned to death in his Jaguar that when the power cut out due to the fire, couldn't get out. Seems like a big safety liability issue to me. .

163846[/snapback]

don't the XLR and Corvette use electronic systems to open the door from inside?

[Sixty8panther]

don't the XLR and Corvette use electronic systems to open the door from inside?

163849[/snapback]

yes... saddly.

[Backup7]

My 2001 optionless Alero has crank windows.

I do sometimes miss being able to roll down all the windows while driving home from work on summer nights..

[pow]

Most modern cars allow you to operate power windows a minute or two after the key is removed.

[trinacriabob]

I have MANUAL windows in my 1992 Regal coupe. I wanted it that way. (Kind of funny considering it has the buckets/console, gauge package and alloy wheels).

Reason I wanted it that way: didn't like paying to repair them in BOTH my previous Cutlass Supremes that had them.

In a GM car, everything except that compacts (Cobalt size) and smaller, come with power windows as standard. I'll live.

[balthazar]

Power windows weigh less. The manual crank assembly weighs more than its powered counterpart.

This is actually true.....

Never used to be. I've disassembled doors from both set-ups from the same year/make/model. Same glass, same tracks, yet one had a lightweight & simple crank & spring, the other had a heavy electrical motor and wiring/switches. PW's used to be much heavier, without question.

[97regalGS]

This is actually true.....

Never used to be. I've disassembled doors from both set-ups from the same year/make/model. Same glass, same tracks, yet one had a lightweight & simple crank & spring, the other had a heavy electrical motor and wiring/switches. PW's used to be much heavier, without question.

163995[/snapback]

while that may be true. times change.

[daves87rs]

I don't understand....why couldn't you open the doors?

163685[/snapback]

No-really-THAT was the strange part...

Trust me, I thought of the handle part....

It wasn't until we were already out of the car and messing qround with the handles

(outside) that we could open the doors up...

That's why I said it was freaky...

I'm not sure if the power surge had anything to do with it...

[balthazar]

while that may be true.  times change.

It absolutely was true, and yes, yes they do.

Now, have any insight as to how the inverse regarding power windows may be true today?

[Sixty8panther]

while that may be true.  times change.

It absolutely was true, and yes, yes they do.

Now, have any insight as to how the inverse regarding power windows may be true today?

164331[/snapback]

I'm also curious.

The math does not jive...

regulator + motor + window =/= less weight than JUST a regulator & window.

If this was the case I'm sure the Lotus Elise would not have been offered

with crank windows to save weight for so long.

[97regalGS]

while that may be true.  times change.

It absolutely was true, and yes, yes they do.

Now, have any insight as to how the inverse regarding power windows may be true today?

164331[/snapback]

i don't understand what you're asking for??????

[Sixty8panther]

It absolutely was true, and yes, yes they do.

Now, have any insight as to how the inverse regarding power windows may be true today?

164331[/snapback]

i don't understand what you're asking for??????

164476[/snapback]

*clears throat* if I may...

A power window is has all of the hardware off a crank window

PLUS ++++ a power window motor. So saying crank windows

weigh less than power seems silly. Perhaps this is possible

somehow but the burden of proof is not on me/us.

I stand by my theory:

crank window = regulator + glass + plastic crank

POWER window = regulator + glass + MOTOR + switch + wiring harness

so therefore, since we all know the weight of even the smallest

electric motor is NOT negligible, power windows CAN NOT weigh

LESS than crank. I'm 99% sure this is faulty logic... and even if

this is true it's due to $hitty engineering on the part of the crank

windows or VERY EXPENSIVE engineering in the power window.

Edited July 9, 2006 by Sixty8panther

[balthazar]

i don't understand what you're asking for??????

Have you seen anything factual or are you just agreeing that PWs are lighter because we're in 'modern times' where everything is 'better'?

[Mr.Krinkle]

you can always try to order the part online and see what the shipping weight is.

if anyone really cares that much.

i dont see how the hand crank weighs more but who knows they do wonderful things with technology now adays.

Now, have any insight as to how the inverse regarding power windows may be true today?

the only automotive insight i can offer at this time comes by way of ancient chinese proverb. "he who sticks d*ck into tailpipe have hot rod"

Edited July 10, 2006 by Mr.Krinkle

[97regalGS]

Have you seen anything factual or are you just agreeing that PWs are lighter because we're in 'modern times' where everything is 'better'?

164512[/snapback]

was away on vacation.

i'm not sure which one weighs more. your previous comment seemed to indicate that you accepted that PW weigh less, then went on to say, but they didn't used to.

i don't agree that just because we are in modern times, that things are better. however, i also don't agree that things were better in the good ole days either.

[balthazar]

What I stated was; PW used to be, without question, heavier than crank windows. This I know from direct experience (examining the 2 systems from the same year/make/model). The electric motors were heavy units.

Someone above claimed that today PW are lighter than cranks, which I doubt, but I would welcome more detail on how that could be the case.

[NOS2006]

A 5th gen. ZL1 Camaro with power windows would be lame...

I want a 5th gen. with the LS7 & a 6-speed manual.

AC, CD player & fog lights will be the only options I'll get.

163460[/snapback]

1. You won't get an LS7 because it won't be offered.

2. You just complained about A/C.

3. Why a CD player? CDs weigh more than no CDs. Plus, then you'll have to add the weight of a CD case.

4. Who wants to be cranking a window up/down while shifting through the 500+ HP of a ZL1 Camaro? That's ridiculous.

[NOS2006]

i don't understand what you're asking for??????

164476[/snapback]

*clears throat* if I may...

A power window is has all of the hardware off a crank window

PLUS ++++ a power window motor. So saying crank windows

weigh less than power seems silly. Perhaps this is possible

somehow but the burden of proof is not on me/us.

I stand by my theory:

crank window = regulator + glass + plastic crank

POWER window = regulator + glass + MOTOR + switch + wiring harness

so therefore, since we all know the weight of even the smallest

electric motor is NOT negligible, power windows CAN NOT weigh

LESS than crank. I'm 99% sure this is faulty logic... and even if

this is true it's due to $hitty engineering on the part of the crank

windows or VERY EXPENSIVE engineering in the power window.

164478[/snapback]

Seriously though.. each power window motor is probably not even 2 lbs.. they're light as hell. Might as well remove your back bumper, too, if you're worried about the MAYBE 5 added pounds of power windows.

[balthazar]

The one possibility is, if the crank window retains the large steel spring to help raise/lower the window and the PW version has none & a mostly plastic motor.

[2005 EquinoxLS]

I have grown to love my A/C and some of the power stuff. I miss power windows on the Bonneville when I would like both windows down. Power locks are also nice moreso on a 4-door when somebody needs to get in the back. Sometimes it needs to be said that the good old days werent always so good. As much as I liked my old B-bodies and still do, I can admit defeat and admit I liked my 2000 Monte Carlo and now my 2005 Equinox for everyday drivers far better than the old stuff. Especially in the winter. I can see the old versus new from both sides.

[Sixty8panther]

NOS:

Once AGAIN... just because I'd get an option (e.g. AC/P.W.) does not

mean that particular option should be STANDARD. It's about freedom

of choice. It's nice to have the option to choose.

When we are all driving around in Government Issued 2034 Toyota

Camrys with NO options I guess I'll have to deal with automatic trans.

& &#036;h&#33;ty four bangers but untill then I'd love the CHOICE to get a

feature or not.

This is why I live in the USA and not the Middle East or Red China.

P.S. PLenty of people shifted their 4-speeds just fine in their 1969

COPO/ZL1/Yenko Camaros w/ crank windows without the universe

collapsing in on itself in a giant super-nova. :wink: