The car connection goes ape on Wagoner

[haypops]

click here

A bit of warning: The car Connection sometimes goes a little silly when they leave the nuts and bolts of autos.

[Guest Josh]

What you are seeing is not an online magazine going ape $h! on somebody. It's the entire automotive society going ape $h! on Wagoner.

He's done before the summer, I said it before. He will not be there come fall '06. I've known for 3, 4 months now that he's been on the way out. I dont think that Nissan/Ghosn is the way to go at all. No way, no how!

But, Wagoner is on his way out.

Hey Dollinger, wanna meet up for that cold brew and chat?!?

Edited July 5, 2006 by Josh

[Guest Josh]

And after reading that, I feel bad for Lutz. The man supports Wagoner and he's far too old to be considered CEO at all. That's just ludacris.

[Igor2]

click here

A bit of warning: The car Connection sometimes goes a little silly when they leave the nuts and bolts of autos.

The only sad truth in the editorial is the revelation that GM is still controlled by the Board (of course comprised of fat Cats and Beancounters)...

I think this is where and why DCX and GM fall (will fall) flat... and this is where I see so much potential in Ford's restructuring - not only is Bill Ford not revokable as the chair, since he is Ford, he managed to force the Board to step back from managing Ford North America. As a Family member he had the power, and took the power to take on allthe responsibility for the future of Ford. He put in place an al new management, exactly to his liking, and without the oversight and hindrances from the Board, the new team has completely free hands in doing anything necesary, changing anything neccessary - just to save the company. The board has no control over them - the new management answers to a single man - Bill Ford Jr. - and he is happy with them - this is his dream team.

This is why I have so much more belief in the Ford restructuring than in GM - Ford is chaging from inside ... GM is simply benefiting from having a good CEO (Wagoner) and a very focused Product Czar (Lutz), but once they are gone - and they will be - it is the same old GM as before - as vulnerable to bad moves as before - and this recent rebellion against the person that has brought GM on the edge of profitability just shows the old ways taking over again in GM, derailing all the hard work put into GM recently

Igor

[evok]

What you are seeing is not an online magazine going ape $h! on somebody. It's the entire automotive society going ape $h! on Wagoner.

He's done before the summer, I said it before. He will not be there come fall '06. I've known for 3, 4 months now that he's been on the way out. I dont think that Nissan/Ghosn is the way to go at all. No way, no how!

But, Wagoner is on his way out.

Hey Dollinger, wanna meet up for that cold brew and chat?!?

You have said many things before that have not come true. That you can take to the bank.

But, be careful what you wish for. No matter how this turns out there may not be a happy ending.

[evok]

And after reading that, I feel bad for Lutz. The man supports Wagoner and he's far too old to be considered CEO at all. That's just ludacris.

No I feel bad for people that lack education.

That is the real travesity of our society.

[haypops]

Lets not forget that this is the same on line publication that droned on and on why the Humvee shouldn't be armoured even though it was in the balkans ten years ago and even now is starting to be prepared for excellent protection. Just a sample of the Car Connection's lack luster performance.

Most respindents here fear Goshen more than respect him. Time and agin Wagoner has proved himself more able than the leadership at Ford. Chrysler just came out with all sorts of new SUVs in a diminshing market. I am not sure that Wagoner hasn't done an excellent job. Since I don't drink with spiteful, aluminum foil hat wearing conspiracy trollls, what do I know?

Edited July 5, 2006 by haypops

[sciguy_0504]

Chrysler just came out with all sorts of new SUVs in a diminshing market.

Didn't GM just come out with all sorts of new SUVs in a diminishing market, too?

[Mr.Krinkle]

thats the beauty of the internet. any jackass with an opinion can have it published and broadcast within seconds for the world to see. regardless of fact or reference beyond google and people will believe it. thats also the beauty of people like jim follinger and jim jones. or heavens gate and david koresh in waco. or was it wacko?

how do you think they came up with expression dont drink the kool aid .

He's done before the summer, I said it before. He will not be there come fall '06. I've known for 3, 4 months now that he's been on the way out.

you dont know sh*t so stop pretending you do, and if you go out for that frosty one ya better watch out.

this is like the 21st century version of hanging out with thr guy with long hair and those radicsl ideas. i think he drove the blue car.

time to get the led out.

Edited July 5, 2006 by Mr.Krinkle

[Flybrian]

Didn't GM just come out with all sorts of new SUVs in a diminishing market, too?

Yeah, but people will actually buy GM's SUVs.

[Satty]

"GM will be bankrupt by '06 and you can take that to the bank."

"Wagoner wont be around in fall of '06"

"The earth is flat"

"Read my lips, no new taxes"

"I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky"

[Newbiewar]

Didn't GM just come out with all sorts of new SUVs in a diminishing market, too?

and GM's market share is growing in a diminishing market...

because GM is making a vehicle that people want... the market is getting old, and so are the vehicles, but unlike every other sector GM has kept the best vehicles in it... and are now making them the better

[Shantanu]

You have said many things before that have not come true.  That you can take to the bank.

But, be careful what you wish for.  No matter how this turns out there may not be a happy ending.

Well, you act like you have inside knowledge, but you also predict a lot of stuff that never comes to pass.

Edited July 5, 2006 by Shantanu

[motownr]

Unlike Nissan, GM has not forgotten how much it relies on its dealer body to sell product. And, to a large degree, the dealers like and respect Wagoner.

Ask any dealer that sells both Nissan and GM if they'd like to see Ghosn take over--bet you'd have a hard time finding many. The dealers hate Ghosn like you wouldn't believe.....

York may be instigating change, but I doubt that Ghosn is really the guy anyone wants heading GM.

[haypops]

Unlike Nissan, GM has not forgotten how much it relies on its dealer body to sell product.  And, to a large degree, the dealers like and respect Wagoner.

Ask any dealer that sells both Nissan and GM if they'd like to see Ghosn take over--bet you'd have a hard time finding many.  The dealers hate Ghosn like you wouldn't believe.....

York may be instigating change, but I doubt that Ghosn is really the guy anyone wants heading GM.

I never considered that, although around here a GM dealer is a lot nicer place to hang out than many other brands (nissan) included.

[haypops]

Didn't GM just come out with all sorts of new SUVs in a diminishing market, too?

Sorry. I should have been more specific and more accurate. Chrysler corporation has introduced new SUV nameplates/models. There is the Chrylser version of the Durango and the Jeep Commander for instances. GM in the mean time is dropping SUV nameplates left and right. Envoy XL, Buick Ranier, a handful of Isuzu no starters :), maybe even the short wheelbase Chevy TB and GMC envoy, H1 Hummer, and the blazer twins come to mind. GM's entries were segment leading and they had no other choice in my opinion. Chrysler and Ford have acted much less quickly to the situation than GM.

[ellives]

The article is nothing but conjecture and supposition. Typical "stir the pot and see what happens" stuff.

It's clear the author likes Ghosn and conveniently skips over Nissan's current problems while he's singing Ghosn's praises.

Oh and Josh, are you going to be resigning if Wagoner isn't gone this fall? Maybe Buickman will hire you to sell real estate.

[Guest buickman]

What you are seeing is not an online magazine going ape $h! on somebody. It's the entire automotive society going ape $h! on Wagoner.

He's done before the summer, I said it before. He will not be there come fall '06. I've known for 3, 4 months now that he's been on the way out. I dont think that Nissan/Ghosn is the way to go at all. No way, no how!

But, Wagoner is on his way out.

Hey Dollinger, wanna meet up for that cold brew and chat?!?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ready.

[Satty]

Remember what happened last time Josh offered to chat with you. How did that interview go?

[evok]

Well, you act like you have inside knowledge, but you also predict a lot of stuff that never comes to pass.

Please educate me. Particularly where I talk in absolute.

So what is it Shantanu, you finished your first year of University and think you are a big boy now?

The one absolute I do have is, BM's Plan will not and can not do as it suggest.

Edited July 5, 2006 by evok

[sciguy_0504]

Please educate me.  Particularly where I talk in absolute.

So what is it Shantanu, you finished your first year of University and think you are a big boy now?

The one absolute I do have is, BM's Plan will not and can not do as it suggest.

I don't talk for Shantanu but it seems you have been churning out that big boy attitude a little more quickly during the past few weeks.

[Drew Dowdell]

I don't talk for Shantanu but it seems you have been churning out that big boy attitude a little more quickly during the past few weeks.

It's because Buickman has been around a lot more than normal recently.

[Guest YellowJacket894]

Well, you act like you have inside knowledge, but you also predict a lot of stuff that never comes to pass.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly. Read Camaro. Read Rear-Drive Platform For North America.

Evok said those things wouldn't come but look at what we're getting in the future.

I don't care if it's Josh, Evok, or the TCC, don't believe everything you hear from an insider. Their predictions are the same as mine or yours: hit or miss (although the insiders probably have just a few more hits than I do).

Edited July 5, 2006 by YellowJacket894

[evok]

It's because Buickman has been around a lot more than normal recently.

LOL - I have noticed that correlation also.

[evok]

Exactly. Read Camaro. Read Rear-Drive Platform For North America.

I don't care if it's Josh, Evok, or the TCC, don't believe everything you hear from an insider. Their predictions are the same as mine or yours: hit or miss (although the insiders probably have just a few more hits than I do).

I agree 100%.

The internet is a big place and there is a lot to find out there without ever having to talk to a supplier or OEM.

But be mindfull, that there are still a few of us around here that can easily verify what is BS and what is not if reported here or else where.

As for program info that I share - well, if I do share, well you better believe that I am very certain it is accurate. If it was not I would not share it.

Personally it is more fun to debunk the myths that are spread around as facts. Some of it is so absurd.

[97regalGS]

Ready.

can the two of you take it to PM. or better yet, to Flint or Lou Patsy or really, anywhere but here.

[Guest buickman]

can the two of you take it to PM.  or better yet, to Flint or Lou Patsy or really, anywhere but here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good idea.

[sciguy_0504]

It's because Buickman has been around a lot more than normal recently.

Sorry, evok. :AH-HA_wink:

[evok]

Sorry, evok.   :AH-HA_wink:

Ha ha - Some people have a negative reaction to a full moon.

Mine is a recurrent case of BM.

Edited July 5, 2006 by evok

[deftonesfan867]

Ha ha - Some people have a negative reaction to a full moon.

Mine is a recurrent case of BM.

Then I feel bad for your toilet. Damn mexican food huh?

[Guest buickman]

Ha ha - Some people have a negative reaction to a full moon.

Mine is a recurrent case of BM.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mine is a recurrent case of billion dollar losses and market share tanking accompanied by deepening junk credit ratings exhibited by the world's once mightiest corporation driven into the ground by incompetent management too egotistical to admit failure, assign responsibility, or hold absolutely anyone accountable, yet well versed in spinning the blame on every other possibility on the planet earth, all the while ignoring the plainly obvious to most reasonable individuals, rational way out of the downslide that has continued virtually unabated for decades.

Buickman

Edited July 5, 2006 by buickman

[Camino LS6]

[The O.C.]

Unlike Nissan, GM has not forgotten how much it relies on its dealer body to sell product.  And, to a large degree, the dealers like and respect Wagoner.

Ask any dealer that sells both Nissan and GM if they'd like to see Ghosn take over--bet you'd have a hard time finding many.  The dealers hate Ghosn like you wouldn't believe.....

York may be instigating change, but I doubt that Ghosn is really the guy anyone wants heading GM.

Have you ever thought about the fact that maybe the dealers LIKING Wagoner is NOT a good thing?

Have you ever considered the Nissan dealers NOT liking Ghosn is for a VERY good reason and maybe why Nissan is still around today?

[The O.C.]

Sorry.  I should have been more specific and more accurate.  Chrysler corporation has introduced new SUV nameplates/models.  There is the Chrylser version of the Durango and the Jeep Commander for instances.  GM in the mean time is dropping SUV nameplates left and right.  Envoy XL, Buick Ranier, a handful of Isuzu no starters :), maybe even the short wheelbase Chevy TB and GMC envoy, H1 Hummer,  and the blazer twins come to mind.  GM's entries were segment leading and they had no other choice in my opinion. Chrysler and Ford have acted much less quickly to the situation than GM.

....but they are filling parts of the segment that they haven't been playing in before....how long has GMC and Cadillac had a large SUV and Chrysler hasn't?

How long has GM and Ford offered a compact-to-midsize SUV (Equinox, Escape) before DCX is finally bringing out the Nitro?

[The O.C.]

LOL - I have noticed that correlation also.

AND.....look at the post in the Lounge.....BM STILL refuses to discuss my rebuttals to his 20 Points....point-for-point.

He says he simply disagrees with me.

Well, if that's the case, then tell me WHERE and HOW you disagree with me....and WHY.

I've made my attempts at debating the 20 Points as easy for him as I possibly can....but I'm really starting to see that I'm.......

[Intrepidation]

I thinkRick just seems to blow a lot of smoke, Lutz actually seems to get things done.

Ghosen turned around an entire company, he's got skill, that can't be argued, GM could certainly use a guy like that.