MOTOR TREND BLOWS CHUNKS

[regfootball]

MT is all gushing for themselves over their latest issue, they have a minivan comparo. But get this, Sedona, Quest, Caravan, Odyssey.

WHERE'S THE SIENNA? I'm no Toyota banger, but its clear the Sienna is one of the segment leaders.

To top it off, they tested a Quest with a list price of over 40 grand. They could have just as easily tested an S model in the high twenties because they tested a Sedona with an MSRP of about 25 grand. "And its such a great value". Damn thing didn't even have power doors!

Yet the Sedona takes 2nd even though the Quest has the nicer interior and handle the best of the bunch. The Sedonas second row doesn't even fold flat. The Odyssey takes first, no biggie that was to be expected.

MT has lost it. They compare 4 vehicles, don't include the segment leader and there is a 15 thousand dollar spread in a price sensitive segment.

What a bunch of dumbphux. Another case of pandering to the Koreans.

Edited July 4, 2006 by regfootball

[Igor2]

MT is all gushing for themselves over their latest issue, they have a minivan comparo.  But get this, Sedona, Quest, Caravan, Odyssey.

WHERE'S THE SIENNA?  I'm no Toyota banger, but its clear the Sienna is one of the segment leaders.

To top it off, they tested a Quest with a list price of over 40 grand.  They could have just as easily tested an S model in the high twenties because they tested a Sedona with an MSRP of about 25 grand.  "And its such a great value".  Damn thing didn't even have power doors!

Yet the Sedona takes 2nd even though the Quest has the nicer interior and handle the best of the bunch.  The Sedonas second row doesn't even fold flat.  The Odyssey takes first, no biggie that was to be expected.

MT has lost it.  They compare 4 vehicles, don't include the segment leader and there is a 15 thousand dollar spread in a price sensitive segment.

What a bunch of dumbphux.  Another case of pandering to the Koreans.

I wouldn't call it pandering to koreans but MT lost it when they named the Ridgeline the truck of the year....

in any rate .... I have hard time finding nay professional or semi professional auto rags that have any cred in my eyes because of the glaring omissions in their articles and lack of accountability..

For comparos .. people finally need to get this straight - either price match (all cars are close to each other on price, and you compare features) or feature match (get each car with perfectly identical features/options and then compare prices)... anything else is alchemy or whicraft (pick one)

Igor

[regfootball]

I wouldn't call it pandering to koreans but MT lost it when they named the Ridgeline the truck of the year....

in any rate .... I have hard time finding nay professional or semi professional auto rags that have any cred in my eyes because of the glaring omissions in their articles and lack of accountability..

For comparos .. people finally need to get this straight - either price match (all cars are close to each other on price, and you compare features) or feature match (get each car with perfectly identical features/options and then compare prices)... anything else is alchemy or whicraft (pick one)

Igor

exactly

[siegen]

WHERE'S THE SIENNA?

First the Yaris evangelizing, and now this? You do work for Toyota marketting don't you?

[regfootball]

not a yaris fan anymore

[Flybrian]

The Sedona is like what would happen if the Odyssey went to the fair and had its picture drawn by a $h!ty sketch artist.

[Mr.Krinkle]

why include the sienna? thats like the default anyway.

[regfootball]

odyssey vs. sienna would decide the winner

[Moto_08]

Yea it's pitiful they put the Quest in rather than Sienna I mean come on Odyssey, Sienna, and Grand Caravans are the best sellers with Sedona newcomer with all the features you need. Maybe if the Sienna was in the comparsion it would win!!! Just a thought but yea I find motor trend or car and driver always giving all the glory to Honda on everything they make so this is no surprise... which annoys me very much.

[siegen]

Maybe if the Sienna was in the comparsion it would win!!!

Nah, the Odyssey beats the Sienna on so many different levels. Although the Sienna would probably beat the rest of the pack.

[Bimmer325]

Where's the Uplander?

[Cremazie]

My opinion is the heading of the thread!

[Moto_08]

Yea siegen Odyssey would win but sometimes its so close there are other comparsions where the Sienna wins like this one...

http://www.ifcar.net/reviews.comparisons.minivans.htm

Every minivan in the market is included in this one and the Sedona beat the Odyssey shockingly but I wouldnt really call this a real comparison though.

[Moto_08]

I don't think the Uplander is really competitive against the other minivans though some of its parts are from the Venture like the doorhandles and the seat design is very similar to the Venture its really outdated although I did read an article a while ago about GM's next minivans in 2009 or something with spaceship design as their next inspiration for design.

From Autoweek:

GM hopes new sport vans will revive sales in minivan segment

JASON STEIN | Automotive News

Posted Date: 7/20/05

DETROIT -- General Motors is developing a new line of minivans with a radically different look in an effort to revive its sales in the segment.

GM will launch at least three new minivans for the 2009 model year on the automaker's Lambda architecture, a platform designed for front-wheel-drive and all-wheel-drive minivans and sport wagons.

Current Chevrolet, Saturn and Pontiac minivans, known internally as U vans, will move to the Lambda architecture. GM may not replace the Buick Terraza minivan, supplier and company sources say.

Production will begin in 2008. GM hasn't announced a location. A year later, GM will offer extended-wheelbase versions of its minivans.

GM began building its crossover sport vans - vehicles based on GM's existing minivan architecture but with SUV-like front ends - last year at its Doraville, Ga., plant. GM's Lambda architecture will debut early in 2007 with sport wagons built at a new plant in Lansing, Mich.

Sources say the new minivans will offer fold-flat seating similar to the minivans offered by the Chrysler group, along with a radical, rounded exterior design.

A GM insider says the GM minivans "look like spaceships."

GM could use a minivan sales boost. It sold more than 300,000 minivans a year from 1997 to 2000, but sales have declined steadily ever since. Last year GM sold 157,169 minivans.

Through the first six months of this year, GM sold 87,524 minivans and held 14.8 percent of the minivan market, down from 15.3 percent a year earlier. Through June, segment leader Chrysler sold 226,908 units and held 38.4 percent, up from 34.0 percent.

The Buick Terraza, Chevrolet Uplander, Pontiac Montana SV6 and Saturn Relay are new for the 2005 model year. But GM hasn't gained any ground with the new minivans.

GM uses the term "architecture" to signify a common set of components, performance characteristics, a common manufacturing process, a range of dimensions and connecting points for key component systems.

Link: http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=102800

Edited July 6, 2006 by Moto_08

[torobud]

MT has lost it.  They compare 4 vehicles, don't include the segment leader and there is a 15 thousand dollar spread in a price sensitive segment.

Who is THE segment leader? Not the Toyota...

I agree with what you are saying about not including the Sienna but it is also quite unfair to include the Caravan being how old the design is at this point (also with a new one in the wings)

[Igor2]

Who is THE segment leader?  Not the Toyota...

I agree with what you are saying about not including the Sienna but it is also quite unfair to include the Caravan being how old the design is at this point (also with a new one in the wings)

163888[/snapback]

what is "coming next fall" never matters in comparos - it deserves a mention in the text, but if it is a 2006 Minivan comparo, it is a 2006 minivan comparo... period...

and Sienna is the segment leader, because it was over previous gen Odyssey, and since then no one has pitted them against each other to see how they measure up..

Actually this is true of many other segments.. no comparos of Compacts has Corola in it, I have seen very few comparos with the trucks, the SUV's etc ...

This lets Toyota keep the image of the leader, because no one has a chance to challenge it ... can you imagine the embarrassment, should the Corolla end behind the like of Kia Spectra i na compact comparo? and well behind Civic and Mazda3?

given my above post, I think this was deliberate move by Toyota - but if it was, MT etc should explicitly say it - "Toyota refused to give us a comparo vehicle - you readers can think why they would do it.

Igor

[regfootball]

Who is THE segment leader?  Not the Toyota...

I agree with what you are saying about not including the Sienna but it is also quite unfair to include the Caravan being how old the design is at this point (also with a new one in the wings)

163888[/snapback]

the odyssey and sienna are co segment leaders. what have you been smoking?

the caravan is included because it is the ICON, it still sells like hotcakes, and it can be had for a lot less money.

[regfootball]

what is "coming next fall" never matters in comparos - it deserves a mention in the text, but if it is a 2006 Minivan comparo, it is a 2006 minivan comparo... period...

and Sienna is the segment leader, because it was over previous gen Odyssey, and since then no one has pitted them against each other to see how they measure up..

Actually this is true of many other segments.. no comparos of Compacts has Corola in it, I have seen very few comparos with the trucks, the SUV's etc ...

This lets Toyota keep the image of the leader, because no one has a chance to challenge it ... can you imagine the embarrassment, should the Corolla end behind the like of Kia Spectra i na compact comparo? and well behind Civic and Mazda3?

given my above post, I think this was deliberate move by Toyota - but if it was, MT etc should explicitly say it - "Toyota refused to give us a comparo vehicle - you readers can think why they would do it.

Igor

163900[/snapback]

did the article even mention the Sienna? I don't think it did!

[Angry Dad]

what is "coming next fall" never matters in comparos - it deserves a mention in the text, but if it is a 2006 Minivan comparo, it is a 2006 minivan comparo... period...

and Sienna is the segment leader, because it was over previous gen Odyssey, and since then no one has pitted them against each other to see how they measure up..

Actually this is true of many other segments.. no comparos of Compacts has Corola in it, I have seen very few comparos with the trucks, the SUV's etc ...

This lets Toyota keep the image of the leader, because no one has a chance to challenge it ... can you imagine the embarrassment, should the Corolla end behind the like of Kia Spectra i na compact comparo? and well behind Civic and Mazda3?

given my above post, I think this was deliberate move by Toyota - but if it was, MT etc should explicitly say it - "Toyota refused to give us a comparo vehicle - you readers can think why they would do it.

Igor

163900[/snapback]

Wow somebody else that has figured out anything in Motor Trend is based on highest bidder. Let's face it, the car companies could teach the record companies a little bit about payola. As if nothing ever shows up for any test without being "juiced", either the writer or the car.

BTW, who invented the word "comparo"? This person would be a good example for public execution. Crime being the spreading of stupidity by example.

Edited July 7, 2006 by Angry Dad

[siegen]

what is "coming next fall" never matters in comparos - it deserves a mention in the text, but if it is a 2006 Minivan comparo, it is a 2006 minivan comparo... period...

and Sienna is the segment leader, because it was over previous gen Odyssey, and since then no one has pitted them against each other to see how they measure up..

Actually this is true of many other segments.. no comparos of Compacts has Corola in it, I have seen very few comparos with the trucks, the SUV's etc ...

This lets Toyota keep the image of the leader, because no one has a chance to challenge it ... can you imagine the embarrassment, should the Corolla end behind the like of Kia Spectra i na compact comparo? and well behind Civic and Mazda3?

given my above post, I think this was deliberate move by Toyota - but if it was, MT etc should explicitly say it - "Toyota refused to give us a comparo vehicle - you readers can think why they would do it.

Igor

163900[/snapback]

Good point. The Sienna just had a face-lift for 2006, I'm surprised they wouldn't want to try their luck against the Odyssey.

I did my own comparison through Edmunds (and Honda/Toyota websites to fill in the holes). The Odyssey definately beats the Sienna in many areas. HP, MPG, features, technology.

[regfootball]

Wow somebody else that has figured out anything in Motor Trend is based on highest bidder. Let's face it, the car companies could teach the record companies a little bit about payola. As if nothing ever shows up for any test without being "juiced", either the writer or the car.

BTW, who invented the word "comparo"? This person would be a good example for public execution. Crime being the spreading of stupidity by example.

163948[/snapback]

car and driver i think founded that word

[regfootball]

Good point. The Sienna just had a face-lift for 2006, I'm surprised they wouldn't want to try their luck against the Odyssey.

I did my own comparison through Edmunds (and Honda/Toyota websites to fill in the holes). The Odyssey definately beats the Sienna in many areas. HP, MPG, features, technology.

163964[/snapback]

don't foget ugly. the odyssey is defintely more ugly

[Cadillacfan]

Actually, I would have to disagree with you on that statement. The Odyssey is much more attractive then the Sienna.

[siegen]

Actually, I would have to disagree with you on that statement.  The Odyssey is much more attractive then the Sienna.

164024[/snapback]

+1

[Camino LS6]

It will be a cold day in the nether regions when I'd buy a minvan... any minivan.

With that said, what struck me most in this thread wasn't the missing competitors in M/T's comparison, but the fact that one of these things topped 40K!

Who in the hell pays 40K for a minivan?

[pow]

'07 Siennas will be available with the 3.5L 270 hp V6 and six-speed auto. M/T should do a follow-up comparo with the two leaders.

[regfootball]

the odyssey is much fuglier than the sienna and even the sedona. damn that new odyssey is frickin hideous

[andy82471]

the odyssey is much fuglier than the sienna and even the sedona.  damn that new odyssey is frickin hideous

164157[/snapback]

Agreed. Although the previous version looked pretty nice, IMO.

[Igor2]

Agreed. Although the previous version looked pretty nice, IMO.

164193[/snapback]

I would not even say that ... I will say thing Show me a minivan that is not ugly

seriosly.. I know one day I will be driving one, and I do not make fun of anyone that drives one, because they are incredibly versatile, but they all are F-U-G-L-E-Y....

maybe with a couple exceptions like Mazda5 and Ford SMax and next gen Mazda MPV/Premacy) .. but Mazda5 is hlardly a minivan and the other two are not coming to US .

Igor

[Moto_08]

The Sienna is way better looking than the Odyssey because it's design is more simple and the Odyssey is just like the Accord the front doesn't match the rear like Odyssey's front is nice then the rear just doesn't fit the way the vehicle looks just like the 06 Accord oh and those hideous lines along the rearmost window camoflauge those door tracks gosh!!!

[regfootball]

the current odyssey is so frickin slab sided and bloated and its front is overbearing, the sides are too busy and the whole form is too blocky. its got a fat ass. D-

the sienna at least looks normal and inoffensive and proportioned just right. too bad the grille and lights are so bad.

the caravan is a nice design, but the whole vehicle is so dated now.

the new sedona is selling like hot cakes around here. the outside is nice to look at but the interior is still third world korean cheap, even if its laid out nice.

for me it comes down to, the quest is the sportiest and now they fixed the interior. it still lakcs the split 3rd row. GLARING oversight on their part.

[siegen]

The Sienna is way better looking than the Odyssey because it's design is more simple and the Odyssey is just like the Accord the front doesn't match the rear like Odyssey's front is nice then the rear just doesn't fit the way the vehicle looks just like the 06 Accord oh and those hideous lines along the rearmost window camoflauge those door tracks gosh!!!

164582[/snapback]

Now there's a run-on sentence if I ever saw one.

[editted for spelling]

Edited July 11, 2006 by siegen

[Moto_08]

My bad i'm to lazy to type well, but you should try using spell check next time.

Edited July 11, 2006 by Moto_08

[MyerShift]

Chryslers previous generation minivans weren't ugly. They were quite attractive, really.

Thank you.

[torobud]

the odyssey and sienna are co segment leaders.  what have you been smoking?

the caravan is included because it is the ICON, it still sells like hotcakes, and it can be had for a lot less money.

163936[/snapback]

So the segment leader is who you like? Not who is selling the most?

Take a look at this article: (January 2005) http://www.thecarconnection.com/Industry/D...S192.A8022.html

"2004 Minivan Sales Numbers:

Chrysler/Dodge 384,832

Toyota Sienna 159,119

Honda Odyssey 154,238"

Ok - that one was too old - how about a newer one? (February 2006)http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11256369/from/RSS

"In 2005, the Dodge Caravan had a 20.4 percent U.S. market share and the Chrysler Town & Country 16.3 percent, according to Power Information Network, a J.D. Power and Associates division. The Honda Odyssey held 15.7 percent of U.S. minivan sales, the Toyota Sienna about 14.5 percent and the Nissan Quest about 3.6 percent, according to PIN."

Sounds to me DCX=36.7% Market Share while Honda=15.7% and Toyota=14.5%

So now I ask my question again...

Who is THE segment leader?  Not the Toyota...

163888[/snapback]

So what have YOU been smoking? Edited July 11, 2006 by torobud

[regfootball]

i don't think segment leader is always defined by biggest sales. best product is more appropriate...i.e. the cobalt sells more than the mazda3 but the mazda3 is a better car

Edited July 12, 2006 by regfootball

[torobud]

i don't think segment leader is always defined by biggest sales.  best product is more appropriate...i.e. the cobalt sells more than the mazda3 but the mazda3 is a better car

165536[/snapback]

While I respect your opinoin I don't think you can go by feelings (ie you feel that one car is better than another) I believe you have to go by sales because it all boils down to it being part of the Auto BUSINESS where the almighty $$$ rules...

[cardood]

I wouldn't call it pandering to koreans but MT lost it when they named the Ridgeline the truck of the year....

Igor

162329[/snapback]

MT lost it when they named the 1991 Chevy Caprice Classic as the Car of the Year.

[regfootball]

MT lost it when they named the 1991 Chevy Caprice Classic as the Car of the Year.

166381[/snapback]

that ONE made me really scratch my head at the time

[regfootball]

While I respect your opinoin I don't think you can go by feelings (ie you feel that one car is better than another) I believe you have to go by sales because it all boils down to it being part of the Auto BUSINESS where the almighty $$$ rules...

165726[/snapback]

then the corolla is better than the cobalt too and the camry is the best car EVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

lots of people watch that whore Oprah every day but that doesn't make her a very good / or any sort of real journalist.

Edited July 14, 2006 by regfootball

[torobud]

then the corolla is better than the cobalt too and the camry is the best car EVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

lots of people watch that whore Oprah every day but that doesn't make her a very good / or any sort of real journalist.

166659[/snapback]

I would never try to say I like Oprah or think she is the best - but she IS the segment leader which is what we were discussing...

I hate Corrolas and Camrys but I know they are segment leaders too...

[Polish_Kris]

not a yaris fan anymore

162436[/snapback]

True, the prev gen Yaris hatch (Echo hatch) was nice, the current one looks like pikachu

[c6z07]

The Sedona is like what would happen if the Odyssey went to the fair and had its picture drawn by a $h!ty sketch artist.

162502[/snapback]

I think not....considering that the last one sucked, lexus always copuies bmw,

and the odyessy is a good minivan, a copy is a good thing, plus the interior and satey features are better.

[Guest YellowJacket894]

MT lost it when they named the 1991 Chevy Caprice Classic as the Car of the Year.

166381[/snapback]

At first I didn't get it, but I pondered "What's so bad about the Caprice getting that honor?" The Cap' was one of last real American cars in construction and MT awarding it that honor was kind of like a three gun salute at a funeral.

The Ridge-Fire and Cricket getting the honor was a shame and probably Honda's PR and Advertising Department's money at work.

Edited July 23, 2006 by YellowJacket894

[FAPTurbo]

True, the prev gen Yaris hatch (Echo hatch) was nice, the current one looks like pikachu

169730[/snapback]

Christ I hate that little bastard... and that pokemon too.

[zhawk]

Thanks Captain, I have just about weaned my kids off of that annoying show and was hoping to never see that creature again.

The Yaris does look more depressed though...