GMX386

[Hogans_Heroes]

I'm hearing increasing chatter regarding the 2008MY GMX386 on Global Epsilon. Backroom channels, scrawling on the walls of secret passages, notes between homeroom and first period, smoke signals, that sort of thing. Internal GM plans (as recently as September 2005) were showing a very green October 2007 launch. Hands on the wheel. Eyes on the road. It seems the eternal footman was recently spotted in the area of this bedrock program. No coat was seen in hand. Not the hint of a snicker. Yet, there he was, inexplicably peering in its darkened windows, fogging up the front passenger window, kicking tires, tracing his fingers along the sheetmetal. What WAS he doing?

[Northstar]

Please don't tell me it's delayed...

[Cadillacfan]

Okay.. that makes no sense to me. What does the third paragraph have to do with the Epsilon?

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Okay, I'm confused. :blink: So, if this is delayed and GMT361 is delayed, both of which are VOLUME products for GM's VOLUME division, then what the hell is GM planning on producing? Seriously... This cancellation and postponement dance is getting old and GM's fate is being sealed by the day. The domestics have finally been debilitated almost entirely.

[Cory Wolfe]

Um... what? :blink:

[evok]

I think we need a little Bob Dylan in here Mama, take this badge off of me I can't use it anymore. It's gettin' dark, too dark for me to see I feel like ..........................................

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I think we need a little Bob Dylan in here

Mama, take this badge off of me
I can't use it anymore.
It's gettin' dark, too dark for me to see
I feel like ..........................................

[post="55314"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Still confused...

Quote some KoRn or Dry Kill Logic and I'll comprehend :D

[Northstar]

I'm having a hard time thinking that it's delayed, because I found a document in early Nov that was dated Oct 26 2005 and it still had the 386 as an '08 MY.

[Ghost Dog]

I Thought the next Malibu was supposed to be a stunner?

[Ghost Dog]

Its Knockin on Heavens door? EEk Eternal footmen = Time ? Edited December 8, 2005 by Ghost Dog

[GMan]

GM killed the Malibu? :o :unsure:

[wildcat]

< Stan or Kyle > "You b*******!"

Maliboom? :P Maybe they saw that hideous Popular Mechanics rendering. Edited December 8, 2005 by wildcat

[CSpec]

Are they just waiting for the Epsilon II vesion to come out? Is that still in 2010?

[Mike The Canadian]

hell..why are they killing every thing they have! god damnit

[wildcat]

Now wait... kidding aside, nobody said they killed it. But it's evidently under review. Maybe it'll just be delayed.

AFTERTHOUGHT: Personally, I keep repeating Dylan's lyrics used by Evok about the badge; can't get the word badge out of my mind. Could this mean Buick would be knockin' on Heaven's door (by having so few models) if they consider the Epsilon II LaCrosse to be a rebadge of the Malibu and put off doing it? Or maybe I'm reading too deeply into the words. Edited December 8, 2005 by wildcat

[bowtie_dude]

Still confused...

Quote some KoRn or Dry Kill Logic and I'll comprehend :D

[post="55315"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Nevermind, he didn't even mention the Malibu in particular. Let me postulate and I'll come back to this thread. Edited December 8, 2005 by bowtie_dude

[z28luvr01]

Wonder if this news has anything to do with this.

[Ghost Dog]

Wonder if this news has anything to do with this.

[post="55388"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I think a delay would be all about the the money.Everything takes money. Next gen Trailblazer and Envoy just got put on hold right?

[SingleStylish]

I'm hearing increasing chatter regarding the 2008MY GMX386 on Global Epsilon.  Backroom channels, scrawling on the walls of secret passages, notes between homeroom and first period, smoke signals, that sort of thing.

Internal GM plans (as recently as September 2005) were showing a very green October 2007 launch.  Hands on the wheel.  Eyes on the road.
It seems the eternal footman was recently spotted in the area of this bedrock program.  No coat was seen in hand.  Not the hint of a snicker.  Yet, there he was, inexplicably peering in its darkened windows, fogging up the front passenger window, kicking tires, tracing his fingers along the sheetmetal.

What WAS he doing?

[post="55288"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Checking out a new Malibu/Aura in Europe in warmer weather testing. The eternal footman is Maximum Bob right? The place was??? Edited December 8, 2005 by SingleStylish

[VenSeattle]

Now wait... kidding aside, nobody said they killed it.  But it's evidently under review.  Maybe it'll just be delayed.

AFTERTHOUGHT: Personally, I keep repeating Dylan's lyrics used by Evok   about the badge; can't get the word badge out of my mind.  Could this mean Buick would be knockin' on Heaven's door (by having so few models) if they consider the Epsilon II LaCrosse to be a rebadge of the Malibu and put off doing it?  Or maybe I'm reading too deeply into the words.

[post="55363"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

How about one step further... make the next gen Malibu the planned Buick LaCrosse on EPII and just kill Buick.

[Hogans_Heroes]

Okay, sorry - didn't mean to jog a collective mind trip back to an 8 o'clock English 102 or anything! It was my attempt to humorously refer to Prufrock: http://www.bartleby.com/198/1.html

As for the 386, I'm still trying to sort it out myself. But some important suppliers have very recently been handed "stop-work" orders associated with the NG Malibu's code. It sounds improbable, I know. But how many improbable things have happened at GM in the past year? Or the past month for that matter.

Anyone else hearing rumblings on this? Edited December 9, 2005 by Hogans_Heroes

[Croc]

That would be so retarded...GM needs the Malibu or a car in the same segment as the Malibu to be competitive! What's Chevy gonna do? For real?

[4gm]

I think we need a little Bob Dylan in here

Mama, take this badge off of me
I can't use it anymore.
It's gettin' dark, too dark for me to see
I feel like ..........................................

[post="55314"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Suzuki? as in the upcoming Verona replacement? Edited December 9, 2005 by 4gm

[turbo200]

If GM has canceled the Malibu that everyone left and right has been gushing over, they're F*in stupid.

[El Scorcho]

I really have to know more. AH-HA, evok? Bob Lutz?

[Guest Josh]

If GM has canceled the Malibu that everyone left and right has been gushing over, they're F*in stupid.

[post="55462"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

They've been doing a lot of things lately that nobody hears about that makes me ponder why certain people are still in charge.

I sit back, shake my head and write another paragraph in my book lol.

[thegriffon]

Wonder if this news has anything to do with this.

[post="55388"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Err, yes, but probably not the way you are thinking.

[thegriffon]

As I said in another post, don't get too upset. There will be replacements for both sedans, probably looking pretty much like those shown to analysts. But why build two sedans that look like the Ion, one based on the Astra and one on Delta just for North America. Why build two midsize Chevrolet sedans, one on Epsilon for NA and one on Epsilon II for everyone else? GM isn't imploding, this is the result of GM getting really serious and making smart, if painful, decisions. Of course this also means it may be more difficult to find out as much about the replacement programs. With engineering being done all over the world and GM Europe in charge of the Compact and Midsize programs, suppliers and staff in NA may not even know the vehicles they are working on are the Ion and Malibu replacements. It may be like Vue/Antara: "Oh, by the way, that's the Malibu." Edited December 9, 2005 by thegriffon

[turbo200]

If this is the case, then fine by me, more commonality saves money, then all the better. BUT, similar to how the trucks have been fast-tracked, sedans need to be fast-tracked. It's very good to hear it won't be canceled, instead probably just moved to another platform. Malibu is a lameduck already though, so fast-tracking the successor so it can be at least on the same schedule as the 286 is much better. GM needs all the new cars it can churn out.

[Croc]

I just hope that we no longer have the big discrepancies between Vectra/Malibu like we have with this generation.

[thegriffon]

It will be Vectra/Aura this time, remember? I'd like to think GM will give some reassurance on the Malibu and Ion replacement as both were shown to media and analysts, but we may not hear anything until the international versions are revealed in two or three years.

[Croc]

No I remember, but I was referring more to the massive difference is quality of materials and quality of design. The Vectra has tighter proportions and a much higher-quality interior.

[SimonDavid]

If this means GM is getting serious about global product development then it's great news. But I have a sneaking suspicion that it's really about money - the board is saying "everything that is not going to hit the market in 06 / 07 is under review, until we find out if we are going to avoid ch11" Like Winston Churchill in 1940 "Stop work on any ship that will not launch before 1942 - otherwise they will end up in the German navy anyway"

[Hogans_Heroes]

Ok, more triangulating of sources has taken place in just the last 18 hours. While I can't go into detail here, suffice it to say the GMX386 has turned out to be just the tip of a very large iceberg.

[turbo200]

that doesn't sound good

[sciguy_0504]

No, it doesn't. Tissue, anyone?

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

As long as Malibu offers substantial passenger and cargo room over the competition and equipment, comfort, etc. per dollar value (all things the current model cannot claim), then I will be happy. If it is narrow, bland, and too small for its own good like the current Vectra or Malibu, then that will be bad. For a dynamite mid-size, front-drive car stylistically, the Malibu should look like the 2003 SS concept car. It needs the most variety, and while they may be long shots to many GM management and others, I;d like to see available 6-passenger seating and coupe (partially to replace current Monte Carlo) and station wagon body styles to return, and redesign and separate the Malibu Maxx-call it Traverse or something. GM needs to get its stuff together, and after college, I'd like to help them do that.

[z28luvr01]

Ok, more triangulating of sources has taken place in just the last 18 hours.

While I can't go into detail here, suffice it to say the GMX386 has turned out to be just the tip of a very large iceberg.

[post="55713"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

So should we get used to the lineup that GM has now, since t'll be around for a long time?

This news really sucks.

[nzr]

They've been doing a lot of things lately that nobody hears about that makes me ponder why certain people are still in charge.

I sit back, shake my head and write another paragraph in my book lol.

[post="55588"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

haha well said.

[SimonDavid]

Ok, more triangulating of sources has taken place in just the last 18 hours.

While I can't go into detail here, suffice it to say the GMX386 has turned out to be just the tip of a very large iceberg.

[post="55713"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Is this anything to do with Jerry York now being on the board?

There could be a perfect storm here :

- GM takes 10 billion pension hit from Delphi?
- Delphi going on strike?
- Kerkorian and York put everything under scrutiny?

[cmattson]

I look at this as a necessary setback. Like Giff stated, GM didn't need to have an Astra and a Delta-based small car platform. If GM needs to take a step back, bunker down and make the necessary needed changes to be profitable, then so be it. We've had far, far, far too many years of incremental, half-assed changes that result in mediocrity. Take the drastic measures, make the necessary changes -- and if that means new GM models are delayed - then so be it. I'd rather have the next Malibu be late, have strong sales AND strong profit than another having an on-time piece of mediocrity.

[SingleStylish]

Maybe... just maybe... they feel the wind changing with the release of the new Camry and have decided to readjust the product. Don't get me wrong, the product they showed to the press was probably impressive but, maybe GM finally thinks its own product isn't strong enough! With Zeta in some form on and the lambda's being pushed ahead along with the trucks... I am REALLY not that worried about marginal product like the out of place Malibu/G6--Epsillon II.

[Cortazzo]

This being the tip of the iceberg sounds quite ominous to me, now i'm really curious. If GM finally consolidates it's 8 million platforms to a few like Nissan with fewer better engines and transmissions maybe they can be the turnaround story of the decade too.

[Northstar]

Here's what I'm thinking now: 1) GM doesn't want to spend big bucks on more Epsilon I cars, so it's delaying the Malibu for 2 years (or re-doing it completely) and delaying the G6 1 year. Rather than having them have very short lifecycles, it will simply let them wither for an extra 1-2 years and in the end be financially better because of it. 2) GM figures the Aura can carry the bulk of sales for now and will just upgrade the Malibu and G6 to be as good as the Aura until they're replaced. I think GM doesn't feel like spending the money on a brand-new Malibu for 2008 when they already had planned for a Epsilon II Malibu in 2010. Same goes for the G6. Why would GM put the G6 on Epsilon I for 2009 if it could wait a year and save big development costs by putting it on Epsilon II a year later? When does the first Epsilon II debut in Europe? Anyone know? This could help us figure out when the timetable is for North American Epsilon II's.

[CSpec]

When does the first Epsilon II debut in Europe? Anyone know? This could help us figure out when the timetable is for North American Epsilon II's.

[post="55771"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

The Vectra will be the first Epsilon II and as far as I know is a 2009 model.

[Northstar]

The Vectra will be the first Epsilon II and as far as I know is a 2009 model.

[post="55772"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Ok, then it would seem halfway possible that GM has cancelled GMX386 on Epsilon I, and has sped up the Epsilon II Malibu (don't know the code) a year from 2010MY to 2009MY?

[Polish_Kris]

hell..why are they killing every thing they have! god damnit

[post="55357"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

to save money...

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

Still confused...

Quote some KoRn or Dry Kill Logic and I'll comprehend :D

[post="55315"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

According to that 1973 Bob Dylan original and circa 1989 Guns N' Roses remake of Knock, Knock, Knockin' on Heaven's Door, I think evok is saying things are getting dark and Evok's not happy about it-its really taking a toll-AH-HA's said something similar in the past week, and after seeing those Cobalt, G6, Lucerne, etc. turkeys, I haven't been fully encouraged about GM since the Impala and Equinox.

[Cory Wolfe]

2) GM figures the Aura can carry the bulk of sales for now and will just upgrade the Malibu and G6 to be as good as the Aura until they're replaced.

This just keeps catching me off-gaurd... I realize that the Aura is going to be a much better vehicle than the G6 and the Malibu, but can we honestly expect it to overtake the other two in sales with it's limited dealer network? It is just a midsize sedan and I can't see people going out of their way just for it. That and the better car doesn't always equal better sales. Look at the G6, I think most people here would say it is a better car than the Malibu...

[red]

Wow, this and the Kings are doing terrible. When things looked so bright reality crashed back in...Dark times indeed... The next Malibu, in my mind, was GM's last real chance to prove itself and "save the company." Big thanks to Hogans Heroes et al for keeping us posted....wish the news was better though!