UAW Local 31 goes on strike against the Malibu and Aura at the Fairfax plant

[Toyota.vs.GM]

This is stupid Edited May 5, 2008 by Toyota.vs.GM

[IfICouldWouldYou?]

There, I feel better now.

[A Horse With No Name]

This is one reason that I am proud of being non-union.

Chris

[toesuf94]

G.M. - hold on and break the Union this time. Lock them out. I bet there will be a line around the block for the jobs these people do not seem to want any more. These guys have it pretty good for what they do for a living, and the conditions on the line are safer and better than they ever were. This is a GLOBAL workforce now, to compete GLOBALLY, you have to be competitive in all aspects. Steel is steel, rubber is rubber - EVERYWHERE IT COSTS THE SAME. The only variable is labor. If these guys do not wake up to this fact soon, then there will not even be a job to strike from - then let's see what the Union does. They going to hire you and pay you? Show me one Union that ever took over a company it killed and ran it successfully and profitably after they forced management out. Show me! It has never happened and never will. Get over it or the jobs will be gone forever.

Has anyone ever wondered why U.S. companies manufacture OUTSIDE the U.S.A.?

[enzl]

And the sound you hear is the other shoe dropping.

Again, I beg of you--how can this management team be allowed to continue?

You receive a record setting break from the Union in wages, benefits and buy-outs...then you leave a Peterbuilt-sized hole in the agreement by allowing the Locals to separately negotiate rules and other details.

It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

[Blake Noble]

G.M. - hold on and break the Union this time. Lock them out. I bet there will be a line around the block for the jobs these people do not seem to want any more.

Bring on the Scabs!

[A Horse With No Name]

Bring on the Scabs!

It isn't that easy...these people can't be replaced overnight and they know it.

This is one of the reasons that I bought a Toyota for my last new car purchase. I can't stomach the thought of my money going to UAW workers.

Chris

[Blake Noble]

It isn't that easy...these people can't be replaced overnight and they know it.

Indeed, it is not an easy task, given that Unions do possess bigger muscle than they did way back when.

But it could be done.

The UAW are overstepping their limits. I would understand such actions if they were underpaid, overworked, and placed into very dangerous conditions on the basis that they work at their jobs. They should be taught to not take their well-paid, well-compensated jobs for granted. There are plenty of people out there who would enjoy to have the opportunities they have been given.

It is time that someone kicks the UAW, and the other greedy unions like them, down a notch and puts them back into their place.

Edited May 5, 2008 by YellowJacket894

[Oracle of Delphi]

It's about time GM started to promise new models to only UAW Locals who are willing to play ball with GM. There are Locals that are very hostile to GM and there are Locals that go the extra mile for GM, those that play ball, should be rewarded for their loyalty and their plants kept open. Those that don't, well those plants should be shut down. :twocents:

[Camino LS6]

This year is going to be one bumpy ride.

The locals must be nuts to do this now.

[A Horse With No Name]

It's about time GM started to promise new models to only UAW Locals who are willing to play ball with GM. There are Locals that are very hostile to GM and there are Locals that go the extra mile for GM, those that play ball, should be rewarded for their loyalty and their plants kept open. Those that don't, well those plants should be shut down. :twocents:

Agreed 100 percent

[poly]

It's about time GM started to promise new models to only UAW Locals who are willing to play ball with GM. There are Locals that are very hostile to GM and there are Locals that go the extra mile for GM, those that play ball, should be rewarded for their loyalty and their plants kept open. Those that don't, well those plants should be shut down. :twocents:

I hear you. And guess what plant should be at the top of the list for their cooperation and givebacks?

WILMINGTON!

[Oracle of Delphi]

I hear you. And guess what plant should be at the top of the list for their cooperation and givebacks?

WILMINGTON!

Lou, you know my heart will always be with you and the people of the Wilmington Assembly plant, if I can change something for you I will! :AH-HA_wink:

Edited May 5, 2008 by Pontiac Custom-S

[poly]

Lou, you know my heart will always be with you and the people of the Wilmington Assembly plant, if I can change something for you I will! :AH-HA_wink:

Well, by all means, change something for us! new product would be sweet

[ToniCipriani]

What about Orion?

[Oracle of Delphi]

What about Orion?

Wilmington is family to me!

[regfootball]

fusion - made in mexico. not ideal, but it seems to be working. because there is no strike. LOL

[CARBIZ]

You know, I wouldn't be so anti-union if it was just simply about the wages. Everyone wants better wages - who wouldn't? Back when trade unions (and I am talking hundreds of years ago) first formed, they were all about pride in their work and passing their arts down, often to their own sons. When did that all stop? Where did "I won't do that because it is unsafe" give way to "I won't do that because it isn't in my contract?"

Personally, I hate the idea of trying to pigeon-hole people. Labor is, after all, about people. In this globalized economy, however, labor is being treated as just another commodity. I don't like it and I don't agree with it, but as long as Free Trade and world trade are the mantra of the moment, we all have to abide by that reality. The UAW has to accept this reality. If they were offering something like better productivity, more efficiency, better skills - anything, I would say they were worth it. They do not. It is all about me, me, me. Entitlement. Squeezing more in compensation from their employers, while all the while offering less in return.

Let's face it: it is human nature. There isn't one of us who wouldn't try to get away with coming in late, leaving early, taking more vacations, doing less at work while getting away with exorbitant pay hikes. The UAW (and unions in general) got away with that in the '70s and '80s. Has anyone told the UAW that their employers now have half the market share and 1/4 of the market capitalization that they once did?

It is times like this when I wonder why anyone would want to try and run any of the Big 2.5. Seriously. The tale wagged the dog for so many years can it ever change? How many jobs do GM and Ford have to send to Mexico, India, Korea or whever, until the UAW gets it. I feel for them, I really do. However, I don't know anyone (including me!) who is making what they were 5 years ago.

None of us like it, but suck it up! Let's work together to get our employers (our countries?) healthy again, then demand our due.

[2QuickZ's]

"It is in our favor that we make the Malibu," said C.J. Griffin, 50, of Gladstone, as other strikers nodded in agreement. "It's the company's number one car and I don't think GM can keep us idle for too long."

"Oooh! GM is finally making something people want to buy again. Now is the time for us to strike so we can ruin it for them and blame the failure on management!" says the ignorant UAW worker. "But at least our seniority rights will be protected until we force them to file bankruptcy!" shouts another.

Am I the only one that thinks its quite possible their turnaround would be further along had they filed for bankruptcy?

I'm not anti-union at all. The unions have improved safety for all as well as pulled up wages for everybody. I am becoming more and more anti-UAW, though. The sense of entitlement is disgusting. The more generations you get into it, the worse it gets, too. You'll get third generation workers that have been on the job for less than 5 years that already feel GM/Ford/Chrysler owes them. Owes them for what? Doing a half assed, careless job on the days they actually manage to show up?

Edited May 6, 2008 by 2QuickZ's

[enzl]

I think management & labor share this turkey equally.

The UAW Local is flexing its muscle, perhaps inappropriately, but many locals felt the national leadership sold them out...

But you have to also ask the GM management how controlling these 'back-door' work actions weren't negotiated into the landmark labor agreement they struck?

[gm4life]

Why did they do it at Fairfax? Is the new 'Bu made anywhere else? Damn-it do it to a hot-seller too you bastards.

[enzl]

Why did they do it at Fairfax? Is the new 'Bu made anywhere else? Damn-it do it to a hot-seller too you bastards.

The 'bu is made elsewhere (Lake Orion, MI), but they were having trouble keeping up with demand before this happened...This strike action is partially because the 'bu is built there.

[2QuickZ's]

I think management & labor share this turkey equally.

The UAW Local is flexing its muscle, perhaps inappropriately, but many locals felt the national leadership sold them out...

Then they should have voted against the national contract if they feel they were sold out on it.

But you have to also ask the GM management how controlling these 'back-door' work actions weren't negotiated into the landmark labor agreement they struck?

This is only my opinion but I would guess they decided that working certain items into the national contract would not fly with the UAW membership and could therefore result in a potentially long national strike. They know certain locals are more amenable to change than others and that they would rather deal with having a few of the more radical plants go on strike here and there rather than risk shutting down all of their U.S. production. Just a guess, though. It's just too bad Fairfax is one of the plants that chose to strike. It's like they want to cut off their nose to spite their face.

[IfICouldWouldYou?]

I think we may be heading for a summer of discontent all across America. With many unions there is a growing disconnect between the lifers who have a ton of seniority and feel they are untouchables, versus the newer recruits who realize how scary the real world is.

The unions are getting desperate, but rather than being part of the solution, they are becoming, more than ever, part of the problem.

Sort of like a cancer patient defiantly smoking MORE because they don't believe cancer is caused by cigarette smoking.

[Toyota.vs.GM]

If a UAW Local try's to pull the same $h! with the Epsilon II Malibu, GM will simply be able to import them from Europe or South Korea with Epsilon II .

[enzl]

Then they should have voted against the national contract if they feel they were sold out on it.

This is only my opinion but I would guess they decided that working certain items into the national contract would not fly with the UAW membership and could therefore result in a potentially long national strike. They know certain locals are more amenable to change than others and that they would rather deal with having a few of the more radical plants go on strike here and there rather than risk shutting down all of their U.S. production. Just a guess, though. It's just too bad Fairfax is one of the plants that chose to strike. It's like they want to cut off their nose to spite their face.

The Locals can do what they like...there are rumors of some chicanery regarding the more radical plants' votes (keep in mind that Union Leadership get to sit on the multi-Billion $ VEBA and milk it for all it's worth, so their interest is vastly different from the guy on the line.)

MORE IMPORTANTLY GM should have anticipated the backlash and contracted against it--the strike threat was a joke and everyone knew it--instead, we have yet another example of how poorly GM management functions. The one hot product in a volume segment and they're blowing it!

[CARBIZ]

Enzl, please explain what you mean by these contracts. I always understood that the contracts were supposed to be nation-wide. Is that not the case? How is a huge company supposed to plan, let alone function if any old shop steward gets a bug up his/her ass? I've met some of these guys, and they are all universally nuts!

The CAW is making threatening noises about the Oshawa plant already. Since the replacement for the Impala is up in the air and the pick up truck market is tanking, the CAW is rattling its cage about replacements. Frankly, there rattle is getting a little weak, considering our dollar has been at par for about a year now. The huge cost benefit that Oshawa once enjoyed is now largely gone. Ford settled quickly, with a promise of new jobs in Oakville, but then what Ford plants to build here has a brighter future outlook than the Oshawa plant.

This is becoming an alarming trend around here. Our transit system was paralysed for 2 days a week ago, due to a walkout. I think a lot of unions are getting scared (as they should be), but they aren't helping things, IMO. This is not the coal mines in Virginia of 100 years ago, for Gawd's Sake!

[enzl]

Enzl, please explain what you mean by these contracts. I always understood that the contracts were supposed to be nation-wide. Is that not the case? How is a huge company supposed to plan, let alone function if any old shop steward gets a bug up his/her ass? I've met some of these guys, and they are all universally nuts!

Basically, National Contract is set by the UAW at large, the local Unions have a say on the specifics of shop-rules at their plant and other immediate issues concerning their membership uniquely. These 'set asides' are exactly that, the local specifics are left to post-national negotiations. In other words, GM mgmt. left the door open for the 'crazies' to monkey-wrench the entire company. Please note that Ford & Chrysler are not similarly afflicted, so someone at GM's negotiating team screwed up.

My understanding of the situation is that there are elements within the Fairfax (& other) plants that felt they were bamboozled by National and that these strikes are 'payback'---but these are rumors, not facts, and I haven't studied the grievances that closely, so I'm not sure if there are legitimate reasons...

Here's the local's website with its list of issues...

http://uawlocal31.org/

feel free to cast your vote with them!

Edited May 7, 2008 by enzl

[BuddyP]

Here's a dumb question... why can't GM just completely dump the unions? Obvioulsy there's a reason they can't, but why is that and if they did what are the concequences?

[Robert Hall]

Here's a dumb question... why can't GM just completely dump the unions? Obvioulsy there's a reason they can't, but why is that and if they did what are the concequences?

Probably the contracts w/ the unions are such that they can't layoff everyone and then turn around and hire nonunion labour for the same positions...i.e. massive cost and lawsuit potential..

[daves87rs]

It's about time GM started to promise new models to only UAW Locals who are willing to play ball with GM. There are Locals that are very hostile to GM and there are Locals that go the extra mile for GM, those that play ball, should be rewarded for their loyalty and their plants kept open. Those that don't, well those plants should be shut down. :twocents:

Agreed.

Of course, ridding themselves of those people at the problem plants might help too......

[daves87rs]

The 'bu is made elsewhere (Lake Orion, MI), but they were having trouble keeping up with demand before this happened...This strike action is partially because the 'bu is built there.

Good, they can build all of them at LO....Screw the G6.....

[MyerShift]

If a UAW Local try's to pull the same $h! with the Epsilon II Malibu, GM will simply be able to import them from Europe or South Korea with Epsilon II .

There ya go!

You know, I have noticed that some people here are complaining about American cars that are imported here from other countries because "we need to keep the profits in the U.S." or something like that AND I have noticed that others complain of foreign cars being assembled in the U.S. because "they aren't really American cars and the profits go over seas".

Uh-oh! You know what that means and what I have pointed out?

It doesn't matter where the American cars are made, just so long as they are American and profitable for U.S. companies.

[BuddyP]

Probably the contracts w/ the unions are such that they can't layoff everyone and then turn around and hire nonunion labour for the same positions...i.e. massive cost and lawsuit potential..

So what happens with the contract runs out? I guess I'm just curious what exactly does the UAW have ahold of that they can picket once contracts are up and continue to keep thier jobs. I'd like to hear the whole detailed reason. Just from a learning standpoint.

Edited May 7, 2008 by BuddyP

[G. David Felt]

There ya go!

You know, I have noticed that some people here are complaining about American cars that are imported here from other countries because "we need to keep the profits in the U.S." or something like that AND I have noticed that others complain of foreign cars being assembled in the U.S. because "they aren't really American cars and the profits go over seas".

Uh-oh! You know what that means and what I have pointed out?

It doesn't matter where the American cars are made, just so long as they are American and profitable for U.S. companies.

I totally agree, it really does not matter where the product is assembled. The end result is supporting an American Company that brings the profits back to this Country and spends them here. An American company that builds products overseas and imports them here and sells them still has a large support base, offices, etc. The profits are here allowing that company to diversify into other segments with their profits.

Toyota has done this, for everyone that bought their auto's, they took the profits back to Japan and has expanded with jobs in Japan. Yes they also expanded here in the US and elsewere, but the end result is the profits go back to the corporate HQ Country and they usually get spent there.

End result, if you want America to grow and be competitive, then support your American Company.

In regards to Unions, they have only screwed my dad over and for the few years I worked at a company that was unionized, the issues I brought up were always swept under the table for the more important self politics of the entrenched senior workers who actually work less and care less about their jobs, but know they will still have their job even when things slow down.

SCREW THE UNIONS, Shut them all out and bring in Non-Union work forces. People do NOT need to pay a lazy SOB to represent themselves and get a good package.

[pow]

I totally agree, it really does not matter where the product is assembled. The end result is supporting an American Company that brings the profits back to this Country and spends them here. An American company that builds products overseas and imports them here and sells them still has a large support base, offices, etc. The profits are here allowing that company to diversify into other segments with their profits.

Toyota has done this, for everyone that bought their auto's, they took the profits back to Japan and has expanded with jobs in Japan. Yes they also expanded here in the US and elsewere, but the end result is the profits go back to the corporate HQ Country and they usually get spent there.

End result, if you want America to grow and be competitive, then support your American Company.

In regards to Unions, they have only screwed my dad over and for the few years I worked at a company that was unionized, the issues I brought up were always swept under the table for the more important self politics of the entrenched senior workers who actually work less and care less about their jobs, but know they will still have their job even when things slow down.

SCREW THE UNIONS, Shut them all out and bring in Non-Union work forces. People do NOT need to pay a lazy SOB to represent themselves and get a good package.

Multinationals owe no allegiance to any particular country... US-based corporations break US trade sanctions all the time, selling goods and services to "hostile" and "anti-American" countries. The sole purpose of the modern corporation is to make money for its shareholders, not serve the public trust, and if that means GM needs to abandon the US market in favor of the Chinese market, they will. How much reinvestment into the US economy do you think there is when someone buys a South Korean made Aveo, Australian made G8, or Belgian made ASTRA? The money goes back GMDAT, Holden, and GME, spent for their respective workers, plants, R&D facilities, and communities (taxes).

Edited May 7, 2008 by empowah

[MyerShift]

But is it not GMNA (the main GM) that ultimately decides such things? I was reading in an auto mag that Holden was once doing so poorly that GM was going to shut it down.

[Robert Hall]

Latest news on the American Axle strike is that GM is looking to conceed $200 million to them...(might as well flush it down the toilet).

[longtooth]

This is one reason that I am proud of being non-union.

Chris

One reason that I am proud of being Union is the knee-jerk reactions of outrage it solicits from those outside of our cozy little loop. Carry on. Building, Sky, Solstice and friends in DE.

[longtooth]

Latest news on the American Axle strike is that GM is looking to conceed $200 million to them...(might as well flush it down the toilet).

GM's being financed by the Chinese. GM'll be okay. Just have to put on a good show.

[longtooth]

If a UAW Local try's to pull the same $h! with the Epsilon II Malibu, GM will simply be able to import them from Europe or South Korea with Epsilon II .

The oldtimers don't care! Even then at the end, they'll throw more money at us!

[CARBIZ]

Well, it is that attitude that is carrying both our nations down the toilet. Me, me, me. Our adversaries have smartened up and know how to use that mentality of selfishness against us. Good work, UAW.

[longtooth]

Well, it is that attitude that is carrying both our nations down the toilet. Me, me, me. Our adversaries have smartened up and know how to use that mentality of selfishness against us. Good work, UAW.

Listen closely since I'll only address this one more time. This site is to honor the 'car culture'. Few people beyond the members posting here have any interest in knowing of how their shiny car/truck in which they just drove of the lot came into being. Like Otto von Bismarck said: "Laws are like sausages, it is better not to see them being made". Apply that notion to auto-assembly. There are fewer GM, Ford and Chrysler UAW represented autoworkers toiling today than at any time in recent and long memory. We're an insular group. We'll stay or go on our own terms. GM is going to have to pay us for either choice. The cost of doing business. When dinosaurs such as we are finished and done with, perhaps the idyllic, responsive GM which everyone here seems to want can finally exist unfettered. But until that time arrives, we'll still be on the job, business as usual, earning our pay and benefits.

[The O.C.]

We'll stay or go on our own terms. GM is going to have to pay us for either choice. The cost of doing business. When dinosaurs such as we are finished and done with, perhaps the idyllic, responsive GM which everyone here seems to want can finally exist unfettered. But until that time arrives, we'll still be on the job, business as usual, earning our pay and benefits.

"....stay or go on our own terms." "....business as usual, earning our pay and benefits."

Beautiful......just beautiful.

:rotflmao:

Your post is a typical example of why so many people look upon unions (especially the UAW) with such disdain. Do you not realize that?

[longtooth]

"....stay or go on our own terms." "....business as usual, earning our pay and benefits."

Beautiful......just beautiful.

:rotflmao:

Your post is a typical example of why so many people look upon unions (especially the UAW) with such disdain. Do you not realize that?

Do you realize that people comment on the 'autoworkers', their pay, their benefits without ever having put in a full shift in an assembly plant? I've been in GM's employ 33 years and counting. People comment and make their judgements of us out of ignorance. Only those who have been 'there and back' can make an informed appraisal of us and our lives. I enjoy being an anachronism, well versed and well paid. So, who is laughing now? :AH-HA_wink:

Edited May 10, 2008 by longtooth

[The O.C.]

Do you realize that people comment on the 'autoworkers', their pay, their benefits without ever having put in a full shift in an assembly plant? I've been in GM's employ 33 years and counting. People comment and make their judgements of us out of ignorance. Only those who have been 'there and back' can make an informed appraisal of us and our lives. I enjoy being an anachronism, well versed and well paid. So, who is laughing now? :AH-HA_wink:

I spent 11 years "there."

I've also spent almost 10 years (post-GM) working in other sectors of the auto industry.....and I've NEVER, ever encountered anything like the UAW.

Nothing against you, because I know nothing about you....other than what you may post on here. But while in my 11 years I never "worked a full shift at an assembly plant" alot of my time at GM in Michigan put me hand-in-hand with the UAW in many different situations....and it's simply scary the detrimental effect the union had on the overall culture of the company.

Your last post, that I quoted, brought back WAY too many bad memories for me......and makes me wonder if GM will EVER overcome their challenges while this kind of mindset remains in a vast majority of their workers.

I could give many examples....but don't feel dredging up all that again on here.....

I just think (as many people have stated) that a dramatic shift in the "relationship" (if you will) between GM and it's workers is going to have to take place before the company will ever fully recover. The industry today is just a minor shadow of what it used to be 20, 30, even 40 years ago......but GM's relationship with the union hasn't matured at the same level (if at all.)

[longtooth]

I spent 11 years "there."

I've also spent almost 10 years (post-GM) working in other sectors of the auto industry.....and I've NEVER, ever encountered anything like the UAW.

Nothing against you, because I know nothing about you....other than what you may post on here. But while in my 11 years I never "worked a full shift at an assembly plant" alot of my time at GM in Michigan put me hand-in-hand with the UAW in many different situations....and it's simply scary the detrimental effect the union had on the overall culture of the company.

Your last post, that I quoted, brought back WAY too many bad memories for me......and makes me wonder if GM will EVER overcome their challenges while this kind of mindset remains in a vast majority of their workers.

I could give many examples....but don't feel dredging up all that again on here.....

I just think (as many people have stated) that a dramatic shift in the "relationship" (if you will) between GM and it's workers is going to have to take place before the company will ever fully recover. The industry today is just a minor shadow of what it used to be 20, 30, even 40 years ago......but GM's relationship with the union hasn't matured at the same level (if at all.)

GM will get past people like me. They have carte blanche to hire plenty of new workers starting at $14 an hour, minimal benefits. The deck is being cleared. We call the new hires 'the people who aren't there'. An semi-ambitious new 'workers-class' who'll likely burn out before their first decade. We'll see. Such are the vagaries of time.

[The O.C.]

GM will get past people like me. They have carte blanche to hire plenty of new workers starting at $14 an hour, minimal benefits. The deck is being cleared. We call the new hires 'the people who aren't there'. An semi-ambitious new 'workers-class' who'll likely burn out before their first decade. We'll see. Such are the vagaries of time.

It really begs the question, though, of how the Transplants are seemingly doing so well......without unionized workers......

[longtooth]

It really begs the question, though, of how the Transplants are seemingly doing so well......without unionized workers......

Why would I need be involved with that? Or you? Are you just preternaturally disposed to be inquisitive of the affairs of others? The wage scale for the foreign branded transplants has been thus far buoyed by the prevailing rate at unionized shops. As the changeover proceeds within the ranks of GM hourly, wages, benefits and the 'happy Keebler Elves' work ethic of the transplants'll no doubt follow suit in line with the current paradigm at the Domestics.

Edited May 10, 2008 by longtooth

[IfICouldWouldYou?]

No, but some of us are genuinely concerned about the future of our country, and the auto industry has long been the backbone of industry in this country.

Thirty years ago when the Big 3 controlled 85% of the market, the UAW's power at least was evenly distributed and probably did not hurt any one company more than the other, since all 3 were tied to the same rules. As Iaccoca said in his first book, the only time he ever met anyone from GM or Chrysler (when he was at Ford) was during union negotiations.

What the UAW does not understand (or at least the common folk don't seem to) is that now the Big 2.5 only have 50% of the market - and that number is still dropping. So now when the UAW extorts its unreasonable 'compensations' from their employers, it is hurting their employers because now HALF the vehicles sold in this country are sourced from non- union shops who do not abide by the same union contracts.

But this isn't just limited to the UAW. Anyone who has worked at one company for 30 years, in one place, let alone in a union shop, has no idea what the real world is like. In reality, that is the challenge: these people feel they are 'entitled,' regardless of how it hurts their employer. In fact, I venture to say that in many cases, it is BECAUSE it hurts their employer that these workers are so intransigent. Revenge for some past perceived insults? I am not speaking about any one particular person, just unionized employees in general that I have met over the years.

Darwin must be rolling in his grave. If evolution was subject to union rules, we would probably be tadpoles somewhere in a swamp, arguing over which tadpole gets to grow appendages first.