Volkswagen Board Member Says It Would Be "Suicide" For Skoda To Enter U.S.

Skoda does not have the baggage VW does, this might actually make sense...

38 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Skoda does not have the baggage VW does, this might actually make sense...

Agree with this, right now VW name is MUD to most consumers and except for hard core fans, their current product line up is not winning any conquest buyers and they are currently I bet loosing existing ones over Dieselgate!

Depending on what they do in the next 12-18 months, they just might need to replace the VW dealers as rebadged Skoda Dealers or at least add Skoda specific models to the VW dealers. Have both in the same place.

10 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Agree with this, right now VW name is MUD to most consumers and except for hard core fans, their current product line up is not winning any conquest buyers and they are currently I bet loosing existing ones over Dieselgate!

Depending on what they do in the next 12-18 months, they just might need to replace the VW dealers as rebadged Skoda Dealers or at least add Skoda specific models to the VW dealers. Have both in the same place.

Or at least some sort of rational recovery plan in place...VW reminds me of Air France 447, where the pilots through simple errors took a perfectly flyable plane and made basic aviation errors, killing everyone on board.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_447

VW is not even making basic changes that would rationally ensure their survival. I really love the Golf Alltrack, but one model plus the GTI is not enough to carry the US market.

Local dealer where I bought the Jetta was down 25-30 cars a month over where they were ten or fifteen years ago before diesel gate, things have obviously not improved since.

An additional good link on Air France 447....

http://www.flyingmag.com/technique/accidents/air-france-447-crash-final-report-points-pilot-error-confusion

12 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Agree with this, right now VW name is MUD to most consumers and except for hard core fans, their current product line up is not winning any conquest buyers and they are currently I bet loosing existing ones over Dieselgate!

Depending on what they do in the next 12-18 months, they just might need to replace the VW dealers as rebadged Skoda Dealers or at least add Skoda specific models to the VW dealers. Have both in the same place.

 

This absolutely totally untrue, and you have nothing to back it up. VW sales are UP, and that is with existing models netting sales gains. With new products about to drop in the coming months- and in critical segments- they will only continue to see growth. VW isn't closing up shop and suggesting they do so is absurd.

 

Bringing Skoda here was only going to happen as a last resort if VW had to exit the US market. That is obviously not going to happen. Skoda cannot coexist with VW here. There would be far too much overlap. VW is already hampered by VAG not wanting to step on Audi's toes. Throwing another brand into the mix would be disastrous. Especially one with no equity among US buyers. 

VW just needs to stay the course and focus on marketing their current models and continuing to bring new products to market. The TDI deal will soon be water under the bridge, and though they may have burnt some of their loyal buyers, and lost some sales due to lack of TDi offerings, it is totally possible to bounce back from this. Hell, look at Toyota and GM.

6 minutes ago, Frisky Dingo said:

 

This absolutely totally untrue, and you have nothing to back it up. VW sales are UP, and that is with existing models netting sales gains. With new products about to drop in the coming months- and in critical segments- they will only continue to see growth. VW isn't closing up shop and suggesting they do so is absurd.

 

Bringing Skoda here was only going to happen as a last resort if VW had to exit the US market. That is obviously not going to happen. Skoda cannot coexist with VW here. There would be far too much overlap. VW is already hampered by VAG not wanting to step on Audi's toes. Throwing another brand into the mix would be disastrous. Especially one with no equity among US buyers. 

VW just needs to stay the course and focus on marketing their current models and continuing to bring new products to market. The TDI deal will soon be water under the bridge, and though they may have burnt some of their loyal buyers, and lost some sales due to lack of TDi offerings, it is totally possible to bounce back from this. Hell, look at Toyota and GM.

They are also not currently selling small crossovers, the whole SUV lineup is dated and unappealing, they have clung to the beetle and CC far to long, and they are selling cars at fire sale prices.

While I do not expect them to die tomorrow, they are by no means doing what they should to pull ahead in the US auto market.

They are still thinking too much like Germans, and trying to force a German way of thinking on the US auto market.  They need to act like they are serious about the US auto market if they are going to make a dent.

Yes, sales are up, but up over a year ago when we were two months past diesel gate...

Really serious work and a change in attitude need to happen at VW if they ever want to be more than one or two percent of the domestic US auto market.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-38247779

The mess in Europe is getting deeper also, not getting shallower....

Just now, A Horse With No Name said:

They are also not currently selling small crossovers, the whole SUV lineup is dated and unappealing, they have clung to the beetle and CC far to long, and they are selling cars at fire sale prices.

While I do not expect them to die tomorrow, they are by no means doing what they should to pull ahead in the US auto market.

They are still thinking too much like Germans, and trying to force a German way of thinking on the US auto market.  They need to act like they are serious about the US auto market if they are going to make a dent.

Yes, sales are up, but up over a year ago when we were two months past diesel gate...

Really serious work and a change in attitude need to happen at VW if they ever want to be more than one or two percent of the domestic US auto market.

Despite being the oldest CUV on the market, the Tiguan is actually a competitive product and is still selling well. And it's replacement will be here within 6 months. That is in addition to the Atlas. The CC makes up a fraction of VW sales, and is not vital to the brand's sales numbers. It is getting a replacement sometime next year, anyway. The Beetle is a niche product that will never do large numbers. There will continue to be special models here and there. The Beetle is nothing but a money maker at this point. It costs very little to build them. It doesn't need huge sales numbers. Passat numbers are up, GTI and Golf R sales numbers continue to increase, and Golf SportWagen sales are increasing, too.

In addition to the Tiguan and Atlas, the E Golf is on the way, there will be a smaller CUV to slot below the new Tiguan, and the Jetta and Passat are both due for replacement in the near future. If VW continues with their plans moving forward, they will be fine. A new van in the vein of the Bus would really be a wise move that would bolster sales, as well. Something is in the works, but Idk how close it is, or exactly what form it will take. 

5 minutes ago, Frisky Dingo said:

Despite being the oldest CUV on the market, the Tiguan is actually a competitive product and is still selling well. And it's replacement will be here within 6 months. That is in addition to the Atlas. The CC makes up a fraction of VW sales, and is not vital to the brand's sales numbers. It is getting a replacement sometime next year, anyway. The Beetle is a niche product that will never do large numbers. There will continue to be special models here and there. The Beetle is nothing but a money maker at this point. It costs very little to build them. It doesn't need huge sales numbers. Passat numbers are up, GTI and Golf R sales numbers continue to increase, and Golf SportWagen sales are increasing, too.

In addition to the Tiguan and Atlas, the E Golf is on the way, there will be a smaller CUV to slot below the new Tiguan, and the Jetta and Passat are both due for replacement in the near future. If VW continues with their plans moving forward, they will be fine. A new van in the vein of the Bus would really be a wise move that would bolster sales, as well. Something is in the works, but Idk how close it is, or exactly what form it will take. 

Do you sell VW's at work?

E golf has technical issues, would find VW battery tech suspect.

I hope like crazy VW survives, I love their products. One positive is that they are not at this time offering zero percent to move iron...

Sales might indicate up against last year, but off from before that. At least here in Washington state VW is hurting compared to what they did before. Every auto has zero down, zero first month payment and .9% interest for 60 months when you look at specials via www.vw.com. 0% for 60 months on Golf and Tiguan. Yet then if you go out to the local dealer web sites, it gets even more interesting with thousands off each model, oil changes for life, maintenance covered free during warranty period. 

I get the feeling that VW is hurting far more than the sales numbers indicate. Talking to people about what they think, one does not get a rosey feeling when you ask a person, "What do you think of VW auto's?"

Dear FCA,

Take note.

Sincerely, Everybody

30 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Dear FCA,

Take note.

Sincerely, Everybody

Thank you, captain obvious.....! 

(Not meant with the sound of sarcasm that reads with.....but FCA is not just neglecting new product they are actively working towards their own demise....)

Edited December 8, 2016 by A Horse With No Name

2 hours ago, dfelt said:

Sales might indicate up against last year, but off from before that. At least here in Washington state VW is hurting compared to what they did before. Every auto has zero down, zero first month payment and .9% interest for 60 months when you look at specials via www.vw.com. 0% for 60 months on Golf and Tiguan. Yet then if you go out to the local dealer web sites, it gets even more interesting with thousands off each model, oil changes for life, maintenance covered free during warranty period. 

I get the feeling that VW is hurting far more than the sales numbers indicate. Talking to people about what they think, one does not get a rosey feeling when you ask a person, "What do you think of VW auto's?"

 

Well, considering there are no TDI's to sell, of course the numbers are going to be down from before Dieselgate. That's obvious.

Incentives are strong across the entire market, that's nothing new or anything to put much stock in.

Dealers the nation over, regardless of brand, advertise stupid prices everyday. You may or may not qualify for them. Again, nothing of merit there. 

It would seem a lot of people think they are worth buying seeing as in how they are still posting projected or increased sales in most of their models. What people may or may not think about a brand they may or may not ever have intentions to purchase from don't count for much. It'd be like me asking you what you thought about Ferrari. It doesn't matter, because you're not buying a Ferrari regardless of what your thoughts on them are. The blue collar Midwest worker who has a union job wasn't buying a VW anyway. What he thinks of the brand means about as much as what he thinks of evolution.

 

 

2 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Do you sell VW's at work?

E golf has technical issues, would find VW battery tech suspect.

I hope like crazy VW survives, I love their products. One positive is that they are not at this time offering zero percent to move iron...

 

I do now, yes. I went back to my old dealer. 

Incentives across the board at VW are really no heavier or lighter than usual. Some models are considerably less incentivized they have been in the recent past.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Frisky Dingo

1 minute ago, Frisky Dingo said:

 

Well, considering there are no TDI's to sell, of course the numbers are going to be down from before Dieselgate. That's obvious.

Incentives are strong across the entire market, that's nothing new or anything to put much stock in.

Dealers the nation over, regardless of brand, advertise stupid prices everyday. You may or may not qualify for them. Again, nothing of merit there. 

It would seem a lot of people think they are worth buying seeing as in how they are still posting projected or increased sales in most of their models. What people may or may not think about a brand they may or may not ever have intentions to purchase from don't count for much. It'd be like me asking you what you thought about Ferrari. It doesn't matter, because you're not buying a Ferrari regardless of what your thoughts on them are. The blue collar Midwest worker who has a union job wasn't buying a VW anyway. What he thinks of the brand means about as much as what he thinks of evolution.

An absolute metric crap ton of truth here....

2 minutes ago, Frisky Dingo said:

 

Well, considering there are no TDI's to sell, of course the numbers are going to be down from before Dieselgate. That's obvious.

Incentives are strong across the entire market, that's nothing new or anything to put much stock in.

Dealers the nation over, regardless of brand, advertise stupid prices everyday. You may or may not qualify for them. Again, nothing of merit there. 

It would seem a lot of people think they are worth buying seeing as in how they are still posting projected or increased sales in most of their models. What people may or may not think about a brand they may or may not ever have intentions to purchase from don't count for much. It'd be like me asking you what you thought about Ferrari. It doesn't matter, because you're not buying a Ferrari regardless of what your thoughts on them are. The blue collar Midwest worker who has a union job wasn't buying a VW anyway. What he thinks of the brand means about as much as what he thinks of evolution.

 

 

 

I do now, yes. I went back to my old dealer. 

Incentives across the board at VW are really no heavier or lighter than usual. Some models are considerably less incentivized they have been in the recent past.

The guys at my local VW dealership actually seem a little bit encouraged.  I really, really hope the Sportwgon/Alltrack does well for them, would love to own them.

Powering the Alltrack with a TDI from the GTD  would be the best of all worlds, but we will never see that here....

GTI really is the best car under 30K in many ways....

Golf R is absolutely lust worthy also.  Last time I was in the VW dealership a very affluent lesbian couple was in the midst of purchasing one...seems like the R buyers are a very diverse lot, which is a good thing.

Be interesting to see what happens with the TDI buy back....

20 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

An absolute metric crap ton of truth here....

The guys at my local VW dealership actually seem a little bit encouraged.  I really, really hope the Sportwgon/Alltrack does well for them, would love to own them.

Powering the Alltrack with a TDI from the GTD  would be the best of all worlds, but we will never see that here....

GTI really is the best car under 30K in many ways....

Golf R is absolutely lust worthy also.  Last time I was in the VW dealership a very affluent lesbian couple was in the midst of purchasing one...seems like the R buyers are a very diverse lot, which is a good thing.

Be interesting to see what happens with the TDI buy back....

 

It is a more diverse buyer pool that buys GTI's and the like than I have ever seen. Everyone from young kids, to old retirees and everything in between. It's nuts, and also very cool.

1 minute ago, Frisky Dingo said:

 

It is a more diverse buyer pool that buys GTI's and the like than I have ever seen. Everyone from young kids, to old retirees and everything in between. It's nuts, and also very cool.

...maybe I will be part of that pool soon...who knows?

4 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

...maybe I will be part of that pool soon...who knows?

Can't go wrong with the GTI or the Alltrack either one. Both phenomenal little cars.

Just now, Frisky Dingo said:

Can't go wrong with the GTI or the Alltrack either one. Both phenomenal little cars.

Yeah, hoping VW has a very good 2017...they could use something to break right for them....

Time will tell.

20 minutes ago, Frisky Dingo said:

Can't go wrong with the GTI or the Alltrack either one. Both phenomenal little cars.

That's kind of their problem is that is all they REALLY have going for them right now. The GTI/Jetta platform are exactly that, phenominal, but the rest of their lineup is very "meh".

3 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

That's kind of their problem is that is all they REALLY have going for them right now. The GTI/Jetta platform are exactly that, phenominal, but the rest of their lineup is very "meh".

The Passat and Tiguan still find plenty of buyers. And again, they have 2 new vehicles due out in just months. They have nothing but good things coming.

Anddddddddd in that lays the problem. VW clearly markets to the quirky customer and seems to miss the rest of the country. They come across as a very generic, blah way too conservative auto company with nothing that stirs the passion in me.  

In fact the only thing that comes to mind is that VW I associate with the Make Love, Not War Drug using Hippies of the 60's. Auto's that are always clogging up the roads and going slow.

Where is the  "Fahrvergnügen" ? I remember my parents checking out VW in the 90's and both were Meh, just did not resonate other than a cool commercial, but the actual auto's just missed everything that the rest of the auto companies seem to hit.

Here is where I think VW has failed to realize that their German marketing program does not really work in the US. What fly's elsewhere in their larger markets seems to be what really holds them back here.

They're just last year's VWs anyway....  bringing them over would be like VW trying to rebuild the Mercury brand in the US. 

2 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

They're just last year's VWs anyway....  bringing them over would be like VW trying to rebuild the Mercury brand in the US. 

Outstanding analogy that makes perfect sense.

1 hour ago, A Horse With No Name said:

...maybe I will be part of that pool soon...who knows?

Ya sure about that?

VeeDub sure made caca out of certain things in dat pool!

Seriously though:

The Golf GTI is one incredible machine. The only reason why I cant see myself in one is because back in the day in my 20s, some of my friends at that point in time drove Golf GTIs. VR6s. Corrados too with that same engine.  I made fun of them since I was an American gung ho car guy with the pony car scene. Yeah, they in turn made fun of me for V8s and all....This was the 1990s when the Tuner car craze was hot.

In other words, I cant bring myself to own cars I made fun of back then...

 

 

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

Anddddddddd in that lays the problem. VW clearly markets to the quirky customer and seems to miss the rest of the country. They come across as a very generic, blah way too conservative auto company with nothing that stirs the passion in me.  

In fact the only thing that comes to mind is that VW I associate with the Make Love, Not War Drug using Hippies of the 60's. Auto's that are always clogging up the roads and going slow.

Where is the  "Fahrvergnügen" ? I remember my parents checking out VW in the 90's and both were Meh, just did not resonate other than a cool commercial, but the actual auto's just missed everything that the rest of the auto companies seem to hit.

Here is where I think VW has failed to realize that their German marketing program does not really work in the US. What fly's elsewhere in their larger markets seems to be what really holds them back here.

 

You mean they market to their demograph?? Who would have thought?

That's exactly the appeal of VW. Their cars aren't like the others on the market. They do things differently. That's why the people that like them like them. Why should they try to emulate everyone else?? 

Anyone know where VW is in the pecking order of 1 to 10 of the top ten auto sales companies off the top of your head?

I would think sure market those auto's you want to your loyal quirky fan base, but you also need to market to those you want to win over from the competition and I see nothing that would give VW conquest sales.

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

They're just last year's VWs anyway....  bringing them over would be like VW trying to rebuild the Mercury brand in the US. 

...which will never happen...

33 minutes ago, Frisky Dingo said:

 

You mean they market to their demograph?? Who would have thought?

That's exactly the appeal of VW. Their cars aren't like the others on the market. They do things differently. That's why the people that like them like them. Why should they try to emulate everyone else?? 

They should not....they fail because they try to conform too much, not too little. A lot of untapped potential in the brand...

7 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Anyone know where VW is in the pecking order of 1 to 10 of the top ten auto sales companies off the top of your head?

I would think sure market those auto's you want to your loyal quirky fan base, but you also need to market to those you want to win over from the competition and I see nothing that would give VW conquest sales.

 

A massive percentage of Alltrack buyers thus far are conquest buyers. As are Golf R and GTI. Touareg buyers have pretty much always been.

7 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

...which will never happen...

They should not....they fail because they try to conform too much, not too little. A lot of untapped potential in the brand...

 

Exactly. VW is at their best marching to the beat of their own drum. When they jump in line and follow everyone else is when they hit trouble.

Golf All-Track is for people bored with their Subarus or downsizing out of crossovers but can't go to Subaru for pre-conceived notions about masculinity. 

...aaaand Volkswagen is all about the butch

38 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Golf All-Track is for people bored with their Subarus or downsizing out of crossovers but can't go to Subaru for pre-conceived notions about masculinity. 

...right...because nothing bleeds testosterone like a slightly lifted Golf wagon with body cladding and 5k added to the sticker.

11 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

...right...because nothing bleeds testosterone like a slightly lifted Golf wagon with body cladding and 5k added to the sticker.

It was more the lesbian angle I was implying.... 

Look, VW may have TDI gone forever, but regular folks really aren't upset that much with VW, especially those folks that had much interest in VW, that wasn't solely tied to TDI.

 

Existing customers of the affected vehicles must be angry. But fairly recently Toyota recovered from unintended acceleration, GM recovered from ignition switch, and VW can and will recover from Dieselgate.

I mean was VW cheating, yeah. But their gasoline vehicles are to my knowledge, compliant with the regulations, and their cars are really good cars to drive and the European models brought here are also having pleasing interiors. But they do have other downsides, but that was there anyways.

Quote

It was more the lesbian angle I was implying.... 

I LOVE Lesbians.

But then again, Im just a narcissistic man-whore who thinks lesbians exist just to please MY male hetero sexual fantasies...

Kinda ironic and sooooooo not reality!

Edited December 9, 2016 by oldshurst442

2 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

I LOVE Lesbians.

But then again, Im just a narcissistic man-whore who thinks lesbians exist just to please MY male hetero sexual fantasies...

Kinda ironic and sooooooo not reality!

My daughter is a lesbian...she is wildly uninterested in male fantasies.

13 minutes ago, Suaviloquent said:

Look, VW may have TDI gone forever, but regular folks really aren't upset that much with VW, especially those folks that had much interest in VW, that wasn't solely tied to TDI.

 

Existing customers of the affected vehicles must be angry. But fairly recently Toyota recovered from unintended acceleration, GM recovered from ignition switch, and VW can and will recover from Dieselgate.

I mean was VW cheating, yeah. But their gasoline vehicles are to my knowledge, compliant with the regulations, and their cars are really good cars to drive and the European models brought here are also having pleasing interiors. But they do have other downsides, but that was there anyways.

My co-workers with the TDI have decided to keep it till the very last second and drive the snot out of it and then take the payout towards a new Jetta.

11 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

My co-workers with the TDI have decided to keep it till the very last second and drive the snot out of it and then take the payout towards a new Jetta.

Makes sense...no real advantage to turning it in early.

VW will be scraping a ton of cars though...

Here is the Skoda problem. 

#1 it is unknown to most Americans and would have to be established. 

#2 It would be joining a very very difficult segment of the market that lives on Volume and it would not see that for a while. 

#3 They are not really see as great cars even in their home markets. Decent for the money cars but not great cars. 

#4 The VW thing is not going to impact them as long or hard here in the states as some would like to think. Also the deals they are offering present owners on their Diesels are pretty good and most will remain. My boss is going to come out ahead and may go from a Passat to a CC just based on the deals. 

#5 They for the first few years would only under cut VW market more than any other brand. Also the ATP per car would be even less. 

#6 if it fails then you have the cost of eliminating a whole dealer network at great cost after setting one up at great cost. This would be like a Saturn was to GM. Duplication of resources at a higher cost over all. 

Now if you wanted to sell them though a VW dealer as a optional model or two that would be fine. If you wanted to expand it you could and if you wanted to kill it the cost would be low. 

Just study the cost of Hummer to GM and the dealers vs. what it would have been if it had just been made a GMC model. 

Skoda would be the Scion of VW and we all know how well that worked.

25 minutes ago, hyperv6 said:

Skoda would be the Scion of VW and we all know how well that worked.

No Truer Words Spoken!