All New Toyota Tundra 2022 Model Ditches V8 for V6 and Hybrid

Gonna give it one more shot, eh?

11 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Gonna give it one more shot, eh?

Right, 3rd time is the charm compared to how many generations of Ford, GM or RAM trucks? I honestly cannot count how many generations they have been through. After reading through the full press release, I am honestly not surprised they decided to try one more time for the Toyota Loyalists.

I did find it interesting about the chassis, but wonder about some of the incorporated modules of braces with auto parts like the front brace with the steering box integrated into it. Makes me think you take it off road, hit the front brace hard enough to brake something and the steering is gone.

Did they make the lettering on the front and dash big enough?   The dash is very busy. 

8 hours ago, David said:

Right, 3rd time is the charm compared to how many generations of Ford, GM or RAM trucks? I honestly cannot count how many generations they have been through. After reading through the full press release, I am honestly not surprised they decided to try one more time for the Toyota Loyalists.

I did find it interesting about the chassis, but wonder about some of the incorporated modules of braces with auto parts like the front brace with the steering box integrated into it. Makes me think you take it off road, hit the front brace hard enough to brake something and the steering is gone.

For off road, I’d assume there would be skid plates to cover delicate parts.  

4 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

Did they make the lettering on the front and dash big enough?   The dash is very busy. 

For off road, I’d assume there would be skid plates to cover delicate parts.  

Yes, in the Photo Album I have listed in the story, you can see the skid plates in some of the photo's, all part of their TRD Protection package. Was just way too much info to cover from the dual press releases on this launch.

It’s about time they redesigned the Tundra, hopefully they don’t wait 15 years to do it again.

This truck looks very competitive, lot of power, especially the hybrid, engine a and transmission combo looks strong.  The different trims and off road stuff looks good. 
 

I think what is missing is a super cab version and a cheaper engine option, perhaps the regular corporate 3.5 V6 with 306 hp.  If your base truck starts on par with a quad cab Ecoboost 3.5 F150, I feel like you are missing an entry level model.

5 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

It’s about time they redesigned the Tundra, hopefully they don’t wait 15 years to do it again.

This truck looks very competitive, lot of power, especially the hybrid, engine a and transmission combo looks strong.  The different trims and off road stuff looks good. 
 

I think what is missing is a super cab version and a cheaper engine option, perhaps the regular corporate 3.5 V6 with 306 hp.  If your base truck starts on par with a quad cab Ecoboost 3.5 F150, I feel like you are missing an entry level model.

I would agree that they seem to be missing some of the traditional spaces in the Full Size Truck Lineup. I have to wonder if they really want to take market share or just to keep the roughly 100,000 truck sales going each year.

I am also surprised that they did not make a beefy version of the Hybrid system on the Prius line and instead went with a Hybrid system for performance and not really seems to gain MPG. 

Will be interesting to see how this goes and if they make any gains versus all the BEV Trucks that are coming. I can see Toyota missing out on this since they are Missing in Action on the BEV front. 

? Maybe they are lost in the Hydrogen waste land?

The Tundra’s engines are pretty inline with the Ford 3.5 Ecoboost and Hybrid F150, but even the base Tundra engine puts out more torque than the Ram 5.7 Hemi or the Silverado 6.2 V8 and those are upgrade engines.  Toyota could and should do an NA V6 base level to compete with the Ram V6, the Silverado and Ford 2.7 liter engines.

I think Toyota is looking for more than 100k sales, Toyota has beat Detroit in every market segment except full size pickup truck (and full size van which they don’t even make).  I am not saying Toyota is looking for a sales crown but you have to think they want 200k units a year out of the Tundra.

Why buy a “copy”, right, smk? 
Toyoter should just stick to their niche in the big pickup segment; lame, underpowered & uncompetitive afterthought trucks.

That’s what they’re known for, after all.

37 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Why buy a “copy”, right, smk? 
Toyoter should just stick to their niche in the big pickup segment; lame, underpowered & uncompetitive afterthought trucks.

That’s what they’re known for, after all.

Worldwide and in the USA, Toyota is the mid-size truck champion.  I don't see why they can't take on the full size segment.   Toyota knows reliability, they know resale value, they know how to build quality.  Their problem is leaving Tundras on market for 15 years without much improvement, and not having a lot of powertrain options or configurations.  I made a mistake before, I thought it was only crew cab, there is a double cab option like they have now, 3 bed lengths might be better than the current truck, and there are 6 trim levels.  So it seems like finally they have a variety of configurations they need.

Price is the question, how much are these going to cost with the turbo V6 as the base engine?  If they price it like a Pentastar V6 or GM 2.7 liter 4, that will deliver a big middle finger to the Detroit trucks, but if the Tundra is priced like a 6.2 V8 Silverado, I think Toyota prices a lot of people out.

13 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

So it seems like finally they have a variety of configurations they need.

They have six interior configurations, which is a plus. They have two cabs, two beds, and two engines, same as before though which is where they will continue to fall short when it comes to sales.

1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

They have six interior configurations, which is a plus. They have two cabs, two beds, and two engines, same as before though which is where they will continue to fall short when it comes to sales.

My Friend, you had me confused till I went back and reread the press release.

Double Cab and CrewMax.

Double Cab models will be offered with the choice of a 6.5-foot bed or an 8.1-foot bed.

CrewMax models will be offered with either a 5.5-foot bed or a new 6.5-foot bed.

I'm seeing press info saying there's an 8-ft bed also; for 3 bed lengths. It seems they benchmarked the segment leaders hard, spec-wise.

But it looks VERY 'glued together' from multiple parts from different trucks (inside & out), and I think the whole Transformers look played out over a decade ago. I suspect there's a LOT of corner cutting as usual, for instance; why doesn't the wheel well plastic trim extend down to the most vulnerable areas- at the rockers, to protect the paint?? Weird looking, and poor protection from damage.

Toyoter needed to leapfrog the competition and really shake up the playing field. So far from what I read, they failed to do that. 

They also need to make sure they come in well under the established price tiers- that remains to be revealed. If they do, that may buoy sales to some degree. But I don't see this gaining conquest sales to any measurable amount.

4 minutes ago, balthazar said:

I'm seeing press info saying there's an 8-ft bed also; for 3 bed lengths. It seems they benchmarked the segment leaders hard, spec-wise.

But it looks VERY 'glued together' from multiple parts from different trucks (inside & out), and I think the whole Transformers look played out over a decade ago. I suspect there's a LOT of corner cutting as usual, for instance; why doesn't the wheel well plastic trim extend down to the most vulnerable areas- at the rockers, to protect the paint?? Weird looking, and poor protection from damage.

Toyoter needed to leapfrog the competition and really shake up the playing field. So far from what I read, they failed to do that. 

They also need to make sure they come in well under the established price tiers- that remains to be revealed. If they do, that may buoy sales to some degree. But I don't see this gaining conquest sales to any measurable amount.

It is weird how they have the 3 beds and non are really any standard size especially the 8.1 ft length bed. Talk about weird sizing. 

Worst yet is rereading it, I see now that the Crewcab or Crewmax does not get the 8.1ft length bed, only the double cab which is in essence a king cab model.

Some very weird choices as most 8ft beds I see on Crewcab trucks.

17 minutes ago, David said:

My Friend, you had me confused till I went back and reread the press release.

Double Cab and CrewMax.

Double Cab models will be offered with the choice of a 6.5-foot bed or an 8.1-foot bed.

CrewMax models will be offered with either a 5.5-foot bed or a new 6.5-foot bed.

Sorry if my wording is confusing but basically both of those configurations have been available since 2007. There is no regular cab. This is no base V6 model (work truck models common with the D3). Also, no heavy duty models. While the 2022 is a nice step for them, it changes nothing regarding its place in the pick up world. 

37 minutes ago, David said:

most 8ft beds I see on Crewcab trucks

Not on 1/2-tons, not from GM or Ford (didn't check Ram).
I think you're only seeing this on 3/4- & 1-tonners.

22 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

While the 2022 is a nice step for them, it changes nothing regarding its place in the pick up world. 

100%. 

41 minutes ago, David said:

It is weird how they have the 3 beds and non are really any standard size especially the 8.1 ft length bed. Talk about weird sizing. 

Worst yet is rereading it, I see now that the Crewcab or Crewmax does not get the 8.1ft length bed, only the double cab which is in essence a king cab model.

Some very weird choices as most 8ft beds I see on Crewcab trucks.

I think double cab in Toyota speak is the extended or super cab, so it is like a half door in back, thus you can get the longer bed.  A Crew cab and an 8 foot bed would be a super long vehicle, I think most domestic trucks in that configuration are the 2500/3500 type trucks.  Ford doesn't make an F150 crew cab with an 8 foot bed for example.

25 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Sorry if my wording is confusing but basically both of those configurations have been available since 2007. There is no regular cab. This is no base V6 model (work truck models common with the D3). Also, no heavy duty models. While the 2022 is a nice step for them, it changes nothing regarding its place in the pick up world. 

I could see 2 door regular cab being a real small seller, so maybe that is why they didn't do it.  They probably looked at the percentage of Ford, Ram, GM trucks are are regular cab and didn't see enough volume.  They do have a base/SR trim, I guess that is like their work truck.  

I agree on a low price engine option, either the corporate V6, or a 4 cylinder hybrid, some sort of value option.  Unless they plan to start the Tundra under $35k and get aggressive on pricing, because if their 479 lb-ft engine is priced like a 290 lb-ft V6s from Ford and Ram, then the Tundra is going to make an impact.

Toyota's interior and exterior styling just does not do it for me.   At least when they first showed the Silverado LD my initial thought was that it was quite ungainly but that the styling might grow on me (it did).  This is more like when they first showed the Silverado HD and my initial thought was "that is ugly and I can't imagine it ever growing on me."  I still think it's ugly and it has been out for a couple of years and I think the same thing is going to happen here.

It is like after years of doing boring vanilla Toyota decided to be stylish and some how mistook ugly for stylish.  It started when the grilles on all their products started to get big.  What is even going on with that tailgate area?  Why is the interior so busy?  The exterior might look okay in dark colors without the chrome horseshoe mustache on the grille but otherwise ?

That grille reminds me of this:

48 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Not on 1/2-tons, not from GM or Ford (didn't check Ram).
I think you're only seeing this on 3/4- & 1-tonners.

100%. 

Thank you for pointing that out, with the lite rail construction so busy going on, there is a ton of trucks with 8ft beds around my area and I honestly have not bothered looking at the weight class as I see so many crew cabs with 8ft beds being used by Skanska construction on this massive job across 3 counties here. Makes sense that they are 3/4 or 1 ton trucks with single wheel in back.

Just checked and did not realize how big Skanska is as an international company and so many new GM white trucks in this area for the lite rail project.

Cool to see the live web cams on this project.

Mountlake Terrace where I live. TrueLook - SKANSKA | LYNNWOOD LINK EXTENSION L300 #1

Lynnwood where I used to catch the bus before becoming a permanent work from home person.

TrueLook - SKANSKA | LYNNWOOD LINK EXTENSION L300 #3

Lynnwood Link Extension | Project map and summary | Sound Transit

The picture gallery shows that Ford and GM won big time on all the trucks that Skanska has in use for this mega project.

The Platform - Fresh pics | Sound Transit

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

They probably looked at the percentage of Ford, Ram, GM trucks are are regular cab and didn't see enough volume.

No. They ignored the commercial market, where most regular can sales take place. Just saying that they offer no more options as a pick up than they did in 2007 (their last major redesign). They actually have one less engine than they offered in 2007 and one less cab as well (they did sell a regular cab model until the last refresh in 2014). Again, nice update for them but no real inroads made here. Just a fact. 

10 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I could see 2 door regular cab being a real small seller, so maybe that is why they didn't do it

Seeing as how you like to bring up Toyota domination with the Tacoma, it should be noted that they have always had a regular cab model for it. It makes no sense to exclude the Tundra unless it’s because of their refusal to expand into the work truck market. 

11 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

No. They ignored the commercial market, where most regular can sales take place. Just saying that they offer no more options as a pick up than they did in 2007 (their last major redesign). They actually have one less engine than they offered in 2007 and one less cab as well (they did sell a regular cab model until the last refresh in 2014). Again, nice update for them but no real inroads made here. Just a fact. 

I wanted to be sure and so went back and read the press release again and they are very clear that this 2022 Tundra is to be their Global Truck replacing all other full size trucks. I then went into their press site for the Tacoma and bingo, the 2022 Tacoma is to become a global truck also.

This makes me think Toyota is looking to simplify and reduce costs on their truck line without adding anything and as you pointed out, they have dropped the regular cab which is popular in the commercial segment. Though with that said, I do wonder if they might not offer a regular cab in other markets where they sell much more than here. We have seen this with GM, Ford and Ram where they sell versions not sold here in the U.S.

Either way, Toyota seems to be reducing their product mix with Global Auto's for a less cost  and what becomes a less regional vehicle as they move to just sell a global model everywhere.

? If memory serves me correct, GM did this when they were a true global brand before their big decline.

26 minutes ago, David said:

I wanted to be sure and so went back and read the press release again and they are very clear that this 2022 Tundra is to be their Global Truck replacing all other full size trucks. I then went into their press site for the Tacoma and bingo, the 2022 Tacoma is to become a global truck also.

This makes me think Toyota is looking to simplify and reduce costs on their truck line without adding anything and as you pointed out, they have dropped the regular cab which is popular in the commercial segment. Though with that said, I do wonder if they might not offer a regular cab in other markets where they sell much more than here. We have seen this with GM, Ford and Ram where they sell versions not sold here in the U.S.

Either way, Toyota seems to be reducing their product mix with Global Auto's for a less cost  and what becomes a less regional vehicle as they move to just sell a global model everywhere.

? If memory serves me correct, GM did this when they were a true global brand before their big decline.

The platform is where they went right. Say what you want about everything else that is “wrong” with the Tundra, using ANY platform from a Land Cruiser is good thing. It might give them a little edge in the off road game if they better utilized the TRD moniker. Worldwide off road cred there, is all I’m saying. 

14 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

The platform is where they went right. Say what you want about everything else that is “wrong” with the Tundra, using ANY platform from a Land Cruiser is good thing. It might give them a little edge in the off road game if they better utilized the TRD moniker. Worldwide off road cred there, is all I’m saying. 

I agree that they are using a better platform, but so many decades to get to a boxed High-Strength Steel Frame is sad and I am still not 100% sure I like having critical components built into said frame such as the Steering box they have in the frame cross member.

Hopefully it truly will be better in salty areas.

I do find it interesting that the press release is very clear about this global truck being designed, engineered and of course will be built in the US. Since the truck is designed, engineered and built by US folks, one would have thought they would have been more expansive in the options list to be more competitive with the US brands.

It is also year 1, maybe a 2 door regular cab will follow as they expand to more markets.  Toyota is biggest, richest car company on the planet, they have the resources to do anything they want.  Toyota typically does not like fleet sales though and that is what the commercial market is.

9 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

It is also year 1, maybe a 2 door regular cab will follow as they expand to more markets.  Toyota is biggest, richest car company on the planet, they have the resources to do anything they want.  Toyota typically does not like fleet sales though and that is what the commercial market is.

There is a difference between the Rental market and Commercial fleet market that companies like Skanska are or state, county or city governments that buy a bunch of trucks for use. 

Fleet is not focused on only Rental and when was the last time you saw a rental company with a huge fleet of trucks? I sure have not, yes a few trucks are in rental, but no fleet is so much more than Rental.

Fleet/commercial as a percentage of sales of trucks....I wonder how much it is for a typical full size like the Silverado, Ram 1500, F-150... 5% or 10% of sales?   And then mostly the work truck/base trims?   Not talking about the cab/chassis models. I know I've seen specific commercial-use dealers in places.    I know with vans like the Transit, Transit Connect, Express, etc commercial is it probably a high majority percentage of sales.

^ 10% commercial/fleet sales at GM equals the entire production run of tundras, tho.

With the Silverado, the only light duty fleet trim is the W/T; regular cab/8', double cab/6.5' and crew cab/6.5 or 5.5.

4 hours ago, smk4565 said:

It is also year 1, maybe a 2 door regular cab will follow as they expand to more markets.  Toyota is biggest, richest car company on the planet, they have the resources to do anything they want.  Toyota typically does not like fleet sales though and that is what the commercial market is.

Then that goes against every generation before them, making even less sense. Again, while ti doesn't seem like much, the D3 move enough regular cabs to justify their continued production. The fact Toyota won't even try, from the start, is very telling. I doubt there will be a regular cab with this generation at any point. 

And Toyota does like fleet sales. They have an entire page deviated to all of their fleet models.

https://www.toyota.com/fleet/

4 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Then that goes against every generation before them, making even less sense. Again, while ti doesn't seem like much, the D3 move enough regular cabs to justify their continued production. The fact Toyota won't even try, from the start, is very telling. I doubt there will be a regular cab with this generation at any point. 

Regular cabs have been a dead end for a while..and the D3 seem to only offer them in the low trims, nothing nice.

Someone in my neighborhood has a regular cab short box Tundra.  Every time I see it I marvel a bit because I don't know that I have ever seen another one.  Keep in mind I live in SE Michigan, though. ?

I saw a late model Ram 1500 regular cab shortbed 4x4 not too long ago, seemed like a unicorn, didn’t realize they built any like that over the last decade…

Fleet sales usually mean a discount, doesn't matter if it is Enterprise car rental or Verizon buying the vehicle.  Ford is probably the biggest fleet sale brand there is, I think they usually run like 25-30%.  Where as a Toyota or Honda usually are single digits.

The Tundra is obviously aimed at the middle of the truck market, less worry about the fringes. They have 2 cab sizes and 3 beds, I think that is good.  Cheaper and more fuel efficient engine I think would be the thing they could add to really round it out.

It’s likely problematic junk, if the past 20 years of quality issues is any indication.

3 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

Regular cabs have been a dead end for a while..and the D3 seem to only offer them in the low trims, nothing nice.

A few still trim out but they are few in numbers, for sure. However, those "nothing nice" sell in enough numbers for them to keep on selling them. That work truck market is where those go or for the home depot/U-Haul truck rental crowd. Nothing fancy because enface isn't needed for those. It's a bigger market than some folks realize and that is where Toyota has always missed out where the Tundra is concerned. 

37 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Fleet sales usually mean a discount, doesn't matter if it is Enterprise car rental or Verizon buying the vehicle.

They are still sold at profit, much how Mercedes fleet sells fair chunk of their E-Class rides to taxi companies all over Europe.

1 hour ago, Robert Hall said:

I saw a late model Ram 1500 regular cab shortbed 4x4 not too long ago, seemed like a unicorn, didn’t realize they built any like that over the last decade…

These are the regular cab shortbeds I see the most in my area.  I even knew a guy that leased one a number of years ago (a DS) and drag raced it a few times.  IIRC, it was running high 13's in the 1/4.  Ford F150's are probably second. They are getting popular with the racing crowd as people are buying them up with Coyotes in them and slapping Whipple superchargers on them.  It is very, very rare to see a regular cab short bed Silverado, though I have seen one or two.  Not as rare as the previously mentioned Tundra.  I didn't even know they made a regular cab until I saw the one in my 'hood.

I never thought that Toyota would end the V8 on BOTH the Lexus LS and the Tundra.  I wonder if they will end the V8 on the 4 Runner/Lexus LX.  That is possible and would be rather sad if they do.

So why can't FORD/GM/Dodge defeat Toyota in the midsize pickup segment, here or elsewhere?  I do not think that this new Tundra is as competitive as Toyota thinks it is.

The puppet master still pulls the strings.

1 hour ago, riviera74 said:

So why can't FORD/GM/Dodge defeat Toyota in the midsize pickup segment

Ranger has gobbled up a big chunk of the market in only 2 years. As of 2020, Ranger and the GM mid-sizers combined sell the same volume as the tacoma.

Of course- with '20 being the big slow-down, and '21 being The Year of the Few Chips, perhaps it won't be until Q3 of '22 before we see 'regular' sales numbers from everyone.

10 hours ago, riviera74 said:

I never thought that Toyota would end the V8 on BOTH the Lexus LS and the Tundra.  I wonder if they will end the V8 on the 4 Runner/Lexus LX.  That is possible and would be rather sad if they do.

 

4Runner doesn't have a V8 version...but the next LX probably won't have a V8, since the new Land Cruiser (that the US doesn't get but the LX is based on) doesn't have one..  

There is also the GX, which I didn't even realize was still being sold, it's based on the Land Cruiser Prado and offers a V8 for now...I'd assume it will get redesigned eventually, the current version dates to 2009.

I'd assume the Sequoia will get a redesign with the new Tundra dirty bits incl. the V6 soon..

1 hour ago, Robert Hall said:

4Runner doesn't have a V8 version...but the next LX probably won't have a V8, since the new Land Cruiser (that the US doesn't get but the LX is based on) doesn't have one..  

There is also the GX, which I didn't even realize was still being sold, it's based on the Land Cruiser Prado and offers a V8 for now...I'd assume it will get redesigned eventually, the current version dates to 2009.

I'd assume the Sequoia will get a redesign with the new Tundra dirty bits incl. the V6 soon..

 

Funny that Toyota is killing off the V8 when Lexus seems to be embracing it.

Auto Enthusiasts Take to the Track for the Ultimate Bragging Rights - Lexus USA Newsroom

Here they brag about the 472 HP Naturally aspirated V8 in the all new IS 500F performance car.

"License to Thrill" as they seem to have taken a page from James Bond 007!  

Honestly, not impressed with this performance sedan that is to compete with the V series from Cadillac, AMG from Mercedes, M series from BMW.

http://www.lexus.com/IS500

Interesting to read this story: Toyota CEO: Going All-EV Could Cost Japan Millions Of Jobs (insideevs.com)

Part of this is their Keiretsu approach to business which is illegal in Europe and the U.S.

A keiretsu (Japanese: 系列, literally system, series, grouping of enterprises, order of succession) is a set of companies with interlocking business relationships and shareholdings. In the legal sense, it is a type of informal business group that are loosely organized alliances within the social world of Japan's business community.

Toyota has sued California and is doing everything they can to stop EV adoption even while they slowly work to produce and role out EV's.

I also find this interesting considering that Japan is a country that allows NO IMMIGRATION! You can live there with your spouse or even take a job, but you can never become a citizen with legal rights. As such, Japan has one of the oldest senior populations in the world and is relying on more and more labor from Philippian's and other lower income Asian countries.

I find this understandable as Japan has been stagnant for the last couple of decades in creating new tech due to their society of everyone fitting in, no one going against the ruling class. Japan has in many ways fallen behind China and Korea. Another example is the Sony TV's as Sony stopped R&D after their flat TV Tube TV's and as such now purchase LCD screens from Samsung and resell them under a Sony Label.

Sad, but I actually see Japan falling farther behind US and Europe based companies as the world changes and Japan stays stagnant.