Will Competition Destroy Tesla?

Common @David

First, you talk about LED lights being burnt to which Ive seen plenty of 100 year old established OEMs that have that same problem on their recent automobiles.

Now...you find issues with leaks?

How many F-Body pony cars had leaky T-Tops in the 1970s and well into the early 2000s?  Chevrolet and GM at THAT point in time was close to 90 years old and Pontiac 80.  

Yes.  Tesla is lacking in quality control.  Not too long ago, so was GM, Ford.  

I dont like the bias arguments.  Lets keep that under wraps.  There is nothing really really wrong at Tesla with QC.  They need to improve. They will.  

In all honesty, nothing at Buick gives me any warm fuzzies of luxury.  Nor at Cadillac with their lower end offerings. Tesla fits in here perfectly with GM's offerings... 

Now I know you will say lets agree to disagree, but taking a stance like yours in this instance is disingenuous. 

  On 12/1/2021 at 4:25 PM, ccap41 said:

Even with the biggest of defects a vehicle could have in the Bolts? You trust that over a leaky taillight? 

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You do realize that he is just highlighting ONE of the many problems with Tesla right? We will skip the fact that the Model S had fire issues too. 
 

  On 12/1/2021 at 4:34 PM, oldshurst442 said:

There is nothing really really wrong at Tesla with QC.

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No offense but there are many, many things wrong with Teslas QC methods and standards. Any attempt to say otherwise is a bias comment itself because it ignores that very fact. 

  On 12/1/2021 at 5:20 PM, surreal1272 said:

You do realize that he is just highlighting ONE of the many problems with Tesla right? We will skip the fact that the Model S had fire issues too. 
 

 

No offense but there are many, many things wrong with Teslas QC methods and standards. Any attempt to say otherwise is a bias comment itself because it ignores that very fact. 

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Its a hit or miss with Tesla when buying a Tesla car. I understand that.   

What is NOT acceptable though when arguing this, is using superficial reasons to trash talk Tesla. 

Tesla is known to have shytty paint jobs.   Chalk this one up to QC.   But guess what?   GM also had shytty piant jobs just as recent as 5 years ago.

Tesla is also known to have inconsistent body gaps.  Its also known to have an inconsistency with that too. Some cars will have great finish all around while others will have horrendous body gaps.  Chalk that one up to shoddy production, let alone QC.

But...Chevrolet has had issues with their launch of their C8 Corvette in that car had some QC issues too...

Paint problems, faulty wheel castings for 2020 AND 2021..., a few electrical gremlins here and there...

Like I said, its disingenuous to ALWAYS shyte on Tesla... 

  On 12/1/2021 at 5:20 PM, surreal1272 said:

You do realize that he is just highlighting ONE of the many problems with Tesla right? We will skip the fact that the Model S had fire issues too. 

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NEVER to the extent of what the Bolt is going through. They were not spontaneously combusting in garages. 

@David

You laughing at this is exactly how OCNBLU handled discussions...

Dont laugh, David.    C8 production had to be shut down twice for problems for their wheels.  The C7 also had this problem. You could google to find out what the problem was.  And yes, problematic cars were delivered to customers only to be recalled back.  

The DCT also had some gremlins to it. 

The C8 also had engine valve springs go dead.   And yes, customers had to get them back to the dealers to fix.

Paint has ALWAYS been an issue for GM since the 1980s.   And the C8 is no different for paint defects.

ALL OEMs have their QC issues. its how the OEM decides to address the issues before, during and after delivery.

Now, if you wanna trash talk Tesla, you EASILY could by telling us that you wont buy a Tesla product because IF the car happens to have a production defect, Tesla probably will NOT address the issue but GM, MODERN GM, will fix ALL issues no problems. 

Old GM?  Well, lets not talk about old GM.  Wont fit the Tesla is crap, and only Tesla is crap tirade we wanna go on...

  On 12/1/2021 at 5:35 PM, oldshurst442 said:

Its a hit or miss with Tesla when buying a Tesla car. I understand that.

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According to every reliability study and survey, it is far more miss than hit. That is the point here and in no way does that indicate some kind of bias on Davids part. 

  On 12/1/2021 at 6:15 PM, oldshurst442 said:

Old GM?  Well, lets not talk about old GM.  Wont fit the Tesla is crap, and only Tesla is crap tirade we wanna go on...

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Well considering this is a thread about Tesla and their issues, then the criticisms are quite valid. We are also talking about the here and now so old GM doesn't have squat to do with this. Besides, there has been plenty of GM/Ford/Chrysler smack talk over the last forty years (and deservedly so) so I say "welcome to the s***show Tesla".

Never had any poor paint on GMs: '93, '98, '03, '04, '09', '16, '16, '21.
Not to say -like you say olds; it didn't happen.

- - - - -
RE quality, also correct that every OEM has problems (well, I would hope at the price point that Rolls' are perfect). IMO tho, certain things 'cross that line' and permanently damage that OEM's image in my book. An example from the 'HTF Did That Possibly Happen?!?' chapter is a photo I saw of a Tesla body in the assembly plant, with a huge gapped crack at the base of the A-pillar... which had also been painted over. Can't fathom how an unstressed body shell could crack like that while still on the assembly line... and NOT get caught before paint. Actually, I'm not entirely certain it didn't make it all the way out the plant door like that.

I think Tesla will survive long-term and one day become profitable overall. I'm not as sure that their quality will improve (and they definitely have real & numerous issues), but will give them the benefit of the doubt. Most customers seem OK, there are of course those that have been outraged; remember this international embarrassment? 

  On 12/1/2021 at 6:21 PM, surreal1272 said:

According to every reliability study and survey, it is far more miss than hit. That is the point here and in no way does that indicate some kind of bias on Davids part. 

Well considering this is a thread about Tesla and their issues, then the criticisms are quite valid. We are also talking about the here and now so old GM doesn't have squat to do with this. Besides, there has been plenty of GM/Ford/Chrysler smack talk over the last forty years (and deservedly so) so I say "welcome to the s***show Tesla".

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Yes it does.  Bitchin' about a burnt LED taillight is just stupid.  Especially when he doesnt know why that burnt taillight exists in the first place.  (Somebody hitting the Tesla at a parking lot for instance...but David claiming its Tesla's fault)

Welcome to the shyte show, Tesla?  So we choose to bitch and whine like children when we are all adults?  

No!  A burnt LED taillight is NOT valid to bitch about and start snowflaking around vowing never to buy a Tesla product....      Not for Old GM. Not for Tesla. Not for anybody. 

I repeat, keep the whiny bias at bay. 

  On 12/1/2021 at 6:31 PM, balthazar said:

Never had any poor paint on GMs: '93, '98, '03, '04, '09', '16, '16, '21.
Not to say -like you say olds; it didn't happen.

- - - - -
RE quality, also correct that every OEM has problems (well, I would hope at the price point that Rolls' are perfect). IMO tho, certain things 'cross that line' and permanently damage that OEM's image in my book. An example from the 'HTF Did That Possibly Happen?!?' chapter is a photo I saw of a Tesla body in the assembly plant, with a huge gapped crack at the base of the A-pillar... which had also been painted over. Can't fathom how an unstressed body shell could crack like that while still on the assembly line... and NOT get caught before paint. Actually, I'm not entirely certain it didn't make it all the way out the plant door like that.

I think Tesla will survive long-term and one day become profitable overall. I'm not as sure that their quality will improve (and they definitely have real & numerous issues), but will give them the benefit of the doubt. Most customers seem OK, there are of course those that have been outraged; remember this international embarrassment? 

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My dad's '86 Celebrity paint flaked at the wheel wells.

My dad's and my '94 Grand Am flaked at the wheel wells

My '99 Olds Alero's paint flaked at the wheel wells.

My '05 Impala SS' paint flaked at the wheel wells. 

Most GM cars I see on the road, from the 1980s-mid 2000s, all have paint flaiking at the wheel wells and the cars are rusted in that spot. 

But yeah.  Lets all sing kumbaya and believe GM is fault free...but Tesla is shyte JUST because we are all GM fangirls. 

  On 12/1/2021 at 6:32 PM, oldshurst442 said:

Yes it does.  Bitchin' about a burnt LED taillight is just stupid.  Especially when he doesnt know why that burnt taillight exists in the first place.  (Somebody hitting the Tesla at a parking lot for instance...but David claiming its Tesla's fault)

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Agreed and the temp tag doesn't mean it was new. You can get temp plates for used vehicles as well. For all we know this is the only issue on a vehicle with 100,000 miles. Or it's a 2021 with 5 miles on it. 

  On 12/1/2021 at 5:35 PM, oldshurst442 said:

 

Its a hit or miss with Tesla when buying a Tesla car. I understand that.   

What is NOT acceptable though when arguing this, is using superficial reasons to trash talk Tesla. 

Tesla is known to have shytty paint jobs.   Chalk this one up to QC.   But guess what?   GM also had shytty piant jobs just as recent as 5 years ago.

Tesla is also known to have inconsistent body gaps.  Its also known to have an inconsistency with that too. Some cars will have great finish all around while others will have horrendous body gaps.  Chalk that one up to shoddy production, let alone QC.

But...Chevrolet has had issues with their launch of their C8 Corvette in that car had some QC issues too...

Paint problems, faulty wheel castings for 2020 AND 2021..., a few electrical gremlins here and there...

Like I said, its disingenuous to ALWAYS shyte on Tesla... 

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I get what you and others are saying, yet leadership is where all things start and from day 1 I have not been a Musk Fan of his leadership. Yes, he has done wonders for Tesla marketing and selling and keeping the company afloat when it should have folded, but overall, the many QC problems on Tesla autos and the less than stellar support from the company is just a few of the many issues I have with Tesla including the less than impressive leadership.

Rivian I feel is a much better led company.

  On 12/1/2021 at 6:15 PM, oldshurst442 said:

@David

You laughing at this is exactly how OCNBLU handled discussions...

Dont laugh, David.    C8 production had to be shut down twice for problems for their wheels.  The C7 also had this problem. You could google to find out what the problem was.  And yes, problematic cars were delivered to customers only to be recalled back.  

The DCT also had some gremlins to it. 

The C8 also had engine valve springs go dead.   And yes, customers had to get them back to the dealers to fix.

Paint has ALWAYS been an issue for GM since the 1980s.   And the C8 is no different for paint defects.

ALL OEMs have their QC issues. its how the OEM decides to address the issues before, during and after delivery.

Now, if you wanna trash talk Tesla, you EASILY could by telling us that you wont buy a Tesla product because IF the car happens to have a production defect, Tesla probably will NOT address the issue but GM, MODERN GM, will fix ALL issues no problems. 

Old GM?  Well, lets not talk about old GM.  Wont fit the Tesla is crap, and only Tesla is crap tirade we wanna go on...

 

 

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I get what you are saying and how some members have handled things, but I do feel my laugh is deserved as I do remember the quality problems the OLD GM had as an owner of and still owner of my very first GMC Suburban that I have from 1993, a 1994 model I bought. I think I deserve the right to laugh about GM's quality issues as I have had to deal with them in the past.

I am sure there are still many issues today in the new GM that I have not seen or had to deal with due to the way I buy, service and use my auto's. Lucky me.

No Auto Company is perfect, Looking at Daimler to Toyota and GM. There will always be room for error, but currently Tesla is hitting more errors than quality and the global ramp up might have something to do with it along with the distractions of space, Semi trucks, etc.

  On 12/1/2021 at 6:32 PM, oldshurst442 said:

Yes it does.  Bitchin' about a burnt LED taillight is just stupid. 

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Well then maybe that’s a “you” problem more than a David problem because you are only looking at one thing when he has discussed many problems with Tesla. Just an overblown reaction if you ask me. 
 

  On 12/1/2021 at 6:32 PM, oldshurst442 said:

Yes it does.  Bitchin' about a burnt LED taillight is just stupid.  Especially when he doesnt know why that burnt taillight exists in the first place.  (Somebody hitting the Tesla at a parking lot for instance...but David claiming its Tesla's fault)

Welcome to the shyte show, Tesla?  So we choose to bitch and whine like children when we are all adults?  

No!  A burnt LED taillight is NOT valid to bitch about and start snowflaking around vowing never to buy a Tesla product....      Not for Old GM. Not for Tesla. Not for anybody. 

I repeat, keep the whiny bias at bay. 

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I will have to disagree with you as the non-functional taillight is on a NEW, just got it's temp paper license plate. 

This is the same thing I know we have all seen on the old GM where headlights and taillights had moisture in them and did not work on new autos. In today's age of QA, this kind of thing should not be showing up on a new off the showroom or parking lot. 

This is one thing I wonder about, while not liking how some dealerships sell their autos, many do a decent job on auto prep for new autos to be sold. Does Tesla have a prep job that should have caught this?

  On 12/1/2021 at 6:32 PM, oldshurst442 said:

Welcome to the shyte show, Tesla?  So we choose to bitch and whine like children when we are all adults?  

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Are you new here? Again, no offense but you’ve taken part in the s***show for years so to go after David is a bit hypocritical on your part. Again, just pure overreaction if you ask me. 


You said,

“A burnt LED taillight is NOT valid to bitch about and start snowflaking around vowing never to buy a Tesla product....”

It is when it’s one of MANY problems with them. How you don’t see that is beyond me.

And I am leaving it at that. 

  On 12/1/2021 at 6:53 PM, ccap41 said:

Agreed and the temp tag doesn't mean it was new. You can get temp plates for used vehicles as well. For all we know this is the only issue on a vehicle with 100,000 miles. Or it's a 2021 with 5 miles on it. 

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Thank you, I did not consider that this could be a used Tesla 3 that has been resold, but even then if it is resold from an existing old school dealership, they usually review the auto like this with the customer and if it is from a Tesla store, then why did it get sold with the taillight that way. 

Yes, we could say that it is an item on the owed list of things Tesla or the used auto dealership has to fix.

Yet I did state that I am seeing this on more and more Tesla autos. The amount of Semi trucks loaded with Tesla autos is very noticeable around here and I have to think that this is more a chance of it being new than used as I do not find very many used Tesla on the web for sale locally.

We have all seen pictures of the quality problems.

We have also seen plenty of images about the Model 3 rear bumpers coming off that Tesla had to address.

So in a 21st century why should I cut Tesla any slack when GM, Ford, Chrysler, etc. of American auto companies were taken to task for the same type of stuff in the past. Tesla should have learned from these companies to NOT make these same mistakes, but they seem to be reproducing the same QA issues.

Will be interesting to see how Rivian holds up as real world starts pounding on those trucks.

  On 12/1/2021 at 10:52 PM, David said:

but even then if it is resold from an existing old school dealership, they usually review the auto like this with the customer and if it is from a Tesla store, then why did it get sold with the taillight that way. 

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Common bro...

You know damn well that used vehicles at car dealerships are sold as is...

NO! A burnt LED taillight is NO indication of shoddy production or crappy QC. ESPECIALLY if one does NOT know what the history of the vehicle in question is all about...

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2020/04/youtuber-discusses-c8-corvette-build-quality-issues-video/

From a pro GM website. 

Yes. Yes. Tesla has issues...

Yes we know that.

Being a drama queen about a burnt LED taillight is disingenuous.

@surreal1272

And no!

Me pointing THAT out is not hypocritical of me. 

  On 12/1/2021 at 11:06 PM, oldshurst442 said:

Common bro...

You know damn well that used vehicles at car dealerships are sold as is...

NO! A burnt LED taillight is NO indication of shoddy production or crappy QC. ESPECIALLY if one does NOT know what the history of the vehicle in question is all about...

 

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2020/04/youtuber-discusses-c8-corvette-build-quality-issues-video/

From a pro GM website. 

Yes. Yes. Tesla has issues...

Yes we know that.

Being a drama queen about a burnt LED taillight is disingenuous.

@surreal1272

And no!

Me pointing THAT out is not hypocritical of me. 

 

 

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An enjoyable discussion, we will agree to disagree as I do not think I am a drama queen when I have seen so many New Tesla hitting the road and the number of QA issues seem to be glaring to me.

But then as one that is a voice of the customer for our UDS storage division at Dell, I do pay attention to all details even if it is not a big deal to you as the company needs to know when quality sucks especially in the unstructured data storage area.

We are after all in the Tesla thread. So bitch or praise away as we discuss Tesla.

  On 12/1/2021 at 10:34 PM, David said:

1 I have not been a Musk Fan of his leadership.

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Me neither.  And I wont be buying ANY of his vehicles EVER because I DESPISE what he represents and what he is envisioning and how he goes about it.

He wanted to sell 5% of Tesla stock all along. He slyly made a point to ask a question if 5 billion will solve poverty and if somebody proved it, he wouldnt sell Tesla stock to donate to the poor somehow...

Yet the phoquer does not need any proof.

Why isnt he a philanthropist and just donate 5 dollars to a cause.  Maybe he does donate. but he sure looked like an a$$h073 asking.

The thing is, Tesla's are built OK.  They are not death traps rolling out the production floor.  They are death traps on how Musk markets his self driving feature.  That THERE is another reason why I dont wanna buy any cars of his.

Like Balthy said, most people are OK with the quirks of Tesla production and QC woes.  Honestly, those woes are not that big of a deal.  Others, like that Chinese incident, wont accept it.

YOU, may not want to accept it either.  RIGHTFULLY so!

But where are YOU dissing on Chevrolet and GM when Chevrolet has launched SEVERAL HUNDRED C8s to the public that are subpar?     

If you want to tell me about Tesla's THOUSANDS of shytty cars.  I CAN find THOUSANDS of GM cars too...

I repeat, a burnt LED taillight is NOT a reason to whine about Tesla ESPECIALLY when we dont know the HISTORY of THAT Model 3...   

In any case, Tesla IS American. YOU are American...  You SHOULD be fanboying Tesla blindly JUST how other cultures fanboy blindly their very own car industry.

Wanting MORE from Tesla is what you SHOULD be saying.   Not bitching that you wont buy a Tesla just because of a burnt LED taillight that probably has been hit in a parking lot...

Just sayin'

  On 12/1/2021 at 11:12 PM, David said:

An enjoyable discussion, we will agree to disagree as I do not think I am a drama queen when I have seen so many New Tesla hitting the road and the number of QA issues seem to be glaring to me.

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yes its enjoyable.

Other than needless whining.

I too, have seen MANY GM products that are less than stellar condition prompting me to question if I will ever own another GM vehicle...

See how that works?

PS: The needless whining goes for my whining about your whining...

  On 12/1/2021 at 11:06 PM, oldshurst442 said:

Me pointing THAT out is not hypocritical of me

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Agree to disagree. Just seems like you are (yet again) making a mountain out of a mole hole, is all. 
 

Carry on. 

  On 12/1/2021 at 11:38 PM, surreal1272 said:

Agree to disagree. Just seems like you are (yet again) making a mountain out of a mole hole, is all. 
 

Carry on. 

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You can agree to disagree all you want.  You and Dave are BOTH wrong...

  On 12/1/2021 at 11:39 PM, oldshurst442 said:

You can agree to disagree all you want.  You and Dave are BOTH wrong...

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Down voted for the sheer ignorance and bitchiness. 
 

By all means though, just take up another page over this mole hill. 

  On 12/1/2021 at 11:58 PM, surreal1272 said:

Down voted for the sheer ignorance and bitchiness. 

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Also downvoted for the sheer ignorance and bitchiness

By all means though, just take up another page over this mole hill as well

Well you sure showed me @oldshurst442</sarcasm>. Just remember. Just because you don’t understand context (the fact that almost all of David’s complaints about Tesla have been backed with sources and facts and never been about one damn taillight as you are implying on here) and would rather cherry pick something to death doesn’t mean everyone else here has to subscribe to the same thinking. This thread was about Tesla until you made it about David. Think about it before continuing on this pointless crusade of yours. 
 

Not a crusade, buddy.   Whining about a burnt LED taillight, even on a Tesla, is no reason to whine about it especially when one does not know the history of that Tesla.

And THAT has been the message all along.  

  On 12/1/2021 at 11:39 PM, oldshurst442 said:

You can agree to disagree all you want.  You and Dave are BOTH wrong...

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We are not wrong; we just see it differently than you and disagree with you. 

While GM even now makes product with questionable decisions, and I will not cover for those either, this thread is focused on Tesla and competition or issues that could destroy or hurt Tesla. 

Example of what I hate about GM is some of the shortcuts they make on their engine design. Currently is the Tick Tick Tick noise the V8's make on startup till oil is up through everything and then it goes away. I had the Tick Tick Tick on my Escalade till I changed to synthetic, and it went away.  GM says this is OK and normal, I disagree, no reason an engine should make noise that go away once oil is flowing. They did not do this in the past and yet now it is acceptable to some, yet not to me. Just another reason I have decided to not buy any ICE auto from GM or any other company but wait it out for EVs.

So agree to disagree is where we are at.

  On 12/2/2021 at 12:13 AM, oldshurst442 said:

Not a crusade, buddy.   Whining about a burnt LED taillight, even on a Tesla, is no reason to whine about it especially when one does not know the history of that Tesla.

And THAT has been the message all along.  

 

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No Whining but pointing out that Tesla says they are better quality and a luxury auto company and yet you find clear issues of subpar construction.

End of Line!

  On 12/1/2021 at 11:20 PM, oldshurst442 said:

He wanted to sell 5% of Tesla stock all along. He slyly made a point to ask a question if 5 billion will solve poverty and if somebody proved it, he wouldnt sell Tesla stock to donate to the poor somehow...

Yet the phoquer does not need any proof.

Why isnt he a philanthropist and just donate 5 dollars to a cause.  Maybe he does donate. but he sure looked like an a$$h073 asking.

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Personally, I LOVED this of him. 

Somebody called him out for how much money he has and how he could "solve world hunger" with 5 or 6 billion dollars. All he said was to show him how exactly that will solve world hunger and he would sell his stock and do it. To the best of my knowledge, there wasn't a proposal sent to him for exactly how this would solve world hunger. 

  On 12/2/2021 at 4:48 AM, David said:

While GM even now makes product with questionable decisions, and I will not cover for those either, this thread is focused on Tesla and competition or issues that could destroy or hurt Tesla. 

Example of what I hate about GM is some of the shortcuts they make on their engine design. Currently is the Tick Tick Tick noise the V8's make on startup till oil is up through everything and then it goes away. I had the Tick Tick Tick on my Escalade till I changed to synthetic, and it went away.  GM says this is OK and normal, I disagree, no reason an engine should make noise that go away once oil is flowing. They did not do this in the past and yet now it is acceptable to some, yet not to me. Just another reason I have decided to not buy any ICE auto from GM or any other company but wait it out for EVs.

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A ticking sound in the engine of your Escalade when you start it up?  It is pathetic that GM would claim that is normal!  The 3800 in my Lucerne has NEVER done that.  What are they doing?  Why the weak excuses?

  On 12/2/2021 at 2:04 PM, ccap41 said:

Personally, I LOVED this of him. 

Somebody called him out for how much money he has and how he could "solve world hunger" with 5 or 6 billion dollars. All he said was to show him how exactly that will solve world hunger and he would sell his stock and do it. To the best of my knowledge, there wasn't a proposal sent to him for exactly how this would solve world hunger. 

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Maybe there isn't one that can be had for such an affordable price.  Relatively speaking.

  On 12/2/2021 at 4:48 AM, David said:

 

Example of what I hate about GM is some of the shortcuts they make on their engine design. Currently is the Tick Tick Tick noise the V8's make on startup till oil is up through everything and then it goes away. I had the Tick Tick Tick on my Escalade till I changed to synthetic, and it went away.  GM says this is OK and normal, I disagree, no reason an engine should make noise that go away once oil is flowing. They did not do this in the past and yet now it is acceptable to some, yet not to me. Just another reason I have decided to not buy any ICE auto from GM or any other company but wait it out for EVs.

 

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Your Escalade is 15 years old, isn't it?  Stuff GM was doing then is in no way relevant to what they are doing now..isn't even the same company....that's as lame as me criticizing modern Stellantis for something that Daimler Chrysler did 20 years ago...

  On 12/4/2021 at 5:26 PM, Robert Hall said:

Your Escalade is 15 years old, isn't it?  Stuff GM was doing then is in no way relevant to what they are doing now..isn't even the same company....that's as lame as me criticizing modern Stellantis for something that Daimler Chrysler did 20 years ago...

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Actually Robert, I will have to disagree with you as I feel the V8's then had certain designs that were better than the dry sump design they are using now and especially with all the stories you see on the web by unhappy GM Full Size Truck/SUV owners about their engines ticking and noisy till they drive them a bit and the failures that seem to have happened for some.

Old GM as a Company was poorly run by executives compared to today's GM, but technology in certain cases seems to have been better than now.

  On 12/4/2021 at 5:22 PM, riviera74 said:

A ticking sound in the engine of your Escalade when you start it up?  It is pathetic that GM would claim that is normal!  The 3800 in my Lucerne has NEVER done that.  What are they doing?  Why the weak excuses?

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All I know is the lifter noises have gone away since I switched to Synthetic after my first oil change was regular and it was noisy. Since then I have no complaints about my Escalade. Yet with newer GM V8's you can find plenty of unhappy customers on the web posting about their Tick Tick Tick V8's. Makes one wonder why the dry sump design is supposedly better. I get it from a racing standpoint but then those engines rarely see the service life our engines see.

Non-Corvette V8’s are wet sump.

Dry-sump systems are for high lateral loading (high performance acceleration / handling).

  On 12/4/2021 at 7:33 PM, balthazar said:

Non-Corvette V8’s are wet sump.

Dry-sump systems are for high lateral loading (high performance acceleration / handling).

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Thanks, I thought GM has gone to that due to the way the latest engines seem to tick before it goes away from cold. Either way, it would seem GM feels you can wear the engine a bit more before oil gets back over everything from a cold start unless your using synthetic which seems to address this issue.

I hear all sorts of brands ticking & clunking & whirring walking thru parking lots. 

The GM V8 thing seems to have more than 1 theorized cause, but the bottom line on both my statements here is- complexity is up 10-fold, and some minor noises are the compromise in order to deliver 'X' on other fronts. The ticking in & of itself isn't impacting functionality in any way.

Your Escalade is 'old school', so to a degree was my 2500HD 6.6L. 

  On 12/4/2021 at 9:35 PM, balthazar said:

I hear all sorts of brands ticking & clunking & whirring walking thru parking lots. 

The GM V8 thing seems to have more than 1 theorized cause, but the bottom line on both my statements here is- complexity is up 10-fold, and some minor noises are the compromise in order to deliver 'X' on other fronts. The ticking in & of itself isn't impacting functionality in any way.

Your Escalade is 'old school', so to a degree was my 2500HD 6.6L. 

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Yes, this engine does say MAX on it which was also sold on the Chevrolet and GMC Trucks. Been Solid and very quiet using Synthetic. Saw a brand-new Tahoe at the Business Costco and boy was it noisy which was very weird to me.

  On 12/4/2021 at 5:22 PM, riviera74 said:

Maybe there isn't one that can be had for such an affordable price.  Relatively speaking.

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I think that was his point and that there also isn't a clear way to do it. He gets flack for how much money he has and how he could "solve world hunger" yet they cannot form an actual plan that would "solve" world hunger. There's a difference between feeding everybody for a week and solving the issues and I believe that is his point in asking for the business plan on how it will solve the issue. 

  On 12/4/2021 at 6:35 PM, David said:

Actually Robert, I will have to disagree with you as I feel the V8's then had certain designs that were better than the dry sump design they are using now and especially with all the stories you see on the web by unhappy GM Full Size Truck/SUV owners about their engines ticking and noisy till they drive them a bit and the failures that seem to have happened for some.

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They only use a dry sump sysem in the Z06/ZR1's. This has never been implemented into a truck/SUV and I don't believe the high performance Camaros ever got it either. 

  On 12/4/2021 at 9:08 PM, David said:

Thanks, I thought GM has gone to that due to the way the latest engines seem to tick before it goes away from cold.

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There’s no connection between dry-sump oiling systems and ticking sounds from an engine.

  On 12/6/2021 at 2:02 PM, ccap41 said:

He gets flack for how much money he has and how he could "solve world hunger" yet they cannot form an actual plan that would "solve" world hunger.

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I wanted to reply to you about that last week, but shyte happened at work and so time went by and so I forgot but here we are today.

OK.

For me, its not about giving him flak for not giving away HIS money regardless of what reason.

For me, its the HYPOCRISY of Musk QUESTIONING what that 5 or 6 billion COULD do for humanity...

For poverty or whatever reason, humanitarian aid requires NO proof of what could or could not help.  ANY amount of help with money or time does MIRACLES for the HUMAN cause.

He wants to go to another planet so we could colonize it so we as a species could survive an extinction event here on earth...  He believes this is our species next big step...

So spending billions upon billions upon billions of dollars POLLUTING along the way...because rocket fuel aint exactly great for THIS planet we are CURRENTLY living on...  tryint to get to Mars, knowing DAMN WELL we cant as a species LIVE on Mars without polluting Mars WORSE than we have planet earth because as a species, we need water, and food to survive and a certain median temperature that Mars does not have to support us as a species therefore the amount of technology required to invent all that shyte will require tons of money more with tons of pollution more and to make all that work in Mars will require that we will pollute THAT planet worse that Earth...   

Oh...as we all know...us humans have ALREADY polluted space with our junk

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/03/world/iss-space-debris-russia-intl/index.html

And we have not even BEGUN the colonization process...but we have spent billions and billions of dollars JUST getting to we are now with space exploration...

yet this phoquer names Musk wants a blue print on how 5 or 6 billion could save hunger?

Well, as we all know, we wont be able to solve ALL human poverty, but isnt it worth while to at least TRY and help a few people?  5 or 6 billion dollars worth of human help? In the  right here right now and NOT spend HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS of dollars on a dream that we all know is not possible trying to colonize Mars sometime if the future that will NEVER arrive? 

Also...how about we NOT destroy THIS planet by having shytty ideas colonizing other planets?

If our destiny is going extinct because of an asteroid hitting planet earth, so be it, but if we take care of our shyte and NOT pollute this planet, this planet will do alright... 

But I guess helping a few souls with 5 or 6 billion dollars worth of money is not worth it for him...

Phoque him I say! 

  On 12/6/2021 at 4:13 PM, oldshurst442 said:

For me, its not about giving him flak for not giving away HIS money regardless of what reason.

For me, its the HYPOCRISY of Musk QUESTIONING what that 5 or 6 billion COULD do for humanity...

For poverty or whatever reason, humanitarian aid requires NO proof of what could or could not help.  ANY amount of help with money or time does MIRACLES for the HUMAN cause.

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If you have somebody telling you you can "SOLVE WORLD HUNGER" by giving away billions of dollars YOU earned, wouldn't you want to know how this is SOLVING the issue and not just feeding people for a couple weeks and then everybody is in the same exact situation as before? 

I don't know for a fact but I think it's safe to assume he does donate a ton of money already. Most with his net worth and public image are already donating for causes. 

Personally, I applaud him for calling the UN out and asking exactly how the money would be spent. My personal assumption is he knows how corrupt organizations are and how much of the money would go to people in charge rather than the causes themselves. He just wants to know exactly how the money will be spent and I don't think that's an unreasonable request. 

" “If WFP can describe on this Twitter thread exactly how $6B will solve world hunger, I will sell Tesla stock right now,” 

In a follow-up tweet, Musk added that the UN’s plan must include “open source accounting, so the public sees precisely how the money is spent.”

Beasley responded to Musk’s tweet a few hours later, offering to “be on the next flight to you” and saying that the executive can “throw me out if you don’t like what you hear.”

Beasley also said that while the $6 billion figure wouldn’t solve world hunger, it “WILL prevent global political instability, mass migration and save 42 million people on the brink of starvation.” (CNN had erroneously reported that the money would “solve” world hunger, but later corrected its headline to say 2% of Musk’s fortune could “help solve” world hunger.) "

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/01/elon-musk-tells-un-food-chief-hell-spend-6-billion-to-fight-hunger.html

  On 12/6/2021 at 4:37 PM, ccap41 said:

If you have somebody telling you you can "SOLVE WORLD HUNGER" by giving away billions of dollars YOU earned, wouldn't you want to know how this is SOLVING the issue and not just feeding people for a couple weeks and then everybody is in the same exact situation as before? 

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Nope...

You just do it.

Its not about GIVING 5 billion dollars away.

Its about building an infrastructure so that money could go a long way helping many people for as long as that money or infrastructure could survive.  

Its like this.

There is a program that my restaurant is involved with.  Its a government program (infrastructure that Im kinda talking about) that involves a high school close to the restaurant and the local businesses around it.  It caters to the kids that are not into school and are a danger in becoming drop outs. Not every child wants to go the distance with higher education.  Sometimes these kids do not want to invest the time for trade schools either.  So, the businesses around this high school, be it a hot dog joint like mine, or McDonald's (I dont know if the owner of the McDonald's wants to be a part of this program) or the hairdresser place or the auto mechanics shop etc, we accept these kids and teach them what the business requires them to do as a job.  I as an owner/manager mentor these kids.  I shape their work ethics. I teach them what the job requires...   We (the businesses) dont pay them, the government pays educators to follow up on their studies and their "job" that they do for me or other businesses.  I do get a tax cash back for the time I take to teach them...

Well, that takes money. And because its a government program, its tax payer money.  

I and other managers/owners dont save all kids, but we do are darndest to help them. Our time and effort trying to help our community as much as we can.   Because of Covid, this program is on hiatus.   

What I just said, hopefully shines a light on some questions asked:

1. Does money solve ALL problems?  

No. It does not. Problems will always exist. Some help with some money helps some people sometimes. And THAT should be the goal.  

2. Is it a permanent solution?

No. it is not. But any help, no matter how much time and money it took, helping as many humans as we can  be helped SHOULD be the goal. 

3. A one time deal?

No!  Try to develop a program so it could sustain itself as long as it can.  Covid putting a stop to this program temporarily is an example that nothing lasts forever.

But...

What if Musk could give a small share of Tesla shares to some sort program that HE has concocted to help a few poor souls in a city or town HE chooses to which the Tesla shares pay DIVIDENDS and that program gets that money revenue to pay for people to run a program...

I dunno.

That program buys a small location with a big enough kitchen and some 50 rooms or so.  As small motel or mid sized hotel.  The program hires staff to cook and wait on the rooms.  Its a homeless shelter...  financed by Tesla stock.  Tesla stock that pays Tesla dividends to keep open to help homeless people in a small part of a city or town somewhere in this world.   5 billion dollars worth of Tesla stock keeps a place like that open at least a decade. A decade's worth of human help.  And Musk doesnt even have to get his hands dirty...  Maybe if he chooses, he could always foresee the funds and how those are used.  Just a minor time of the day and the week for him.  

But then again... Tesla stock dont pay dividends. 

Space X does however rely on US government money, ie  tax payer money (not all of Space X's funds is from Musk's money)

Like I said. He is a phoquing hypocrite! 

If he has a solution to colonize Mars, surely he could forge a plan for his 5 billion to help a few souls for an x amount of time during his stay on planet earth...

  On 12/6/2021 at 5:10 PM, oldshurst442 said:

1. Does money solve ALL problems?  

No. It does not. Problems will always exist. Some help with some money helps some people sometimes. And THAT should be the goal.  

2. Is it a permanent solution?

No. it is not. But any help, no matter how much time and money it took, helping as many humans as we can  be helped SHOULD be the goal. 

3. A one time deal?

No!  Try to develop a program so it could sustain itself as long as it can.  Covid putting a stop to this program temporarily is an example that nothing lasts forever.

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They said SOLVE. That is a permanent resolution to fixing world hunger. 

Also, he does donate so it isn't like he isn't making charitable donations already.  

He's just asking exactly how the money will be spend. If it's truly solving the issue, there's no doubt it would be programs of some sort. I don't see how it could be unreasonable to want to know how the money is spent so "solve world hunger". 

  On 12/6/2021 at 4:37 PM, ccap41 said:

If you have somebody telling you you can "SOLVE WORLD HUNGER" by giving away billions of dollars YOU earned, wouldn't you want to know how this is SOLVING the issue and not just feeding people for a couple weeks and then everybody is in the same exact situation as before? 

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Part Two:

I told you that I have helped some kids along the way with this program. Surely this program is not unique to my area only...

Anyway, if I had this attitude that my time just doesnt help ALL kids in ALL of the world, then its just useless to help ANY kids because ALL kids wont be helped then I will just NOT participate in this program at all.

Well, helping some kids for a short period of time is STILL worth it...

Same for this Musk thing.  Saving a few souls even for a few days IS worth it...

But that wasnt the issue either.  NOBODY was saying that 5 billion WILL end poverty and forever...

THAT was HIS words.  Kinda like Aaron Rodgers saying that he had Covid Toe and saying people were accusing him of having Covid Toe and then HE proceeds to prove that he does NOT have Covid Toe.

NOBODY said to Musk that 5 billion will save world hunger. HE came to that defense by responding that way

Your quote by the way.  And thanx for posting it as I didnt have to search for it...  

Beasley also said that while the $6 billion figure wouldn’t solve world hunger, it “WILL prevent global political instability, mass migration and save 42 million people on the brink of starvation.” (CNN had erroneously reported that the money would “solve” world hunger, but later corrected its headline to say 2% of Musk’s fortune could “help solve” world hunger.) "

And that would be MY take on this situation as well.  Although my vision is not as grand by saying 5 billion will prevent political instability and mass migration.  That to me is just stupid to think that way.  Because political instability has NOTHING to do with Musk's money.  But 5 billion goes a looooong way in helping a few human souls and if done the right way, could help those souls and many more for quite a long time. And for as long as it can, we should not question it.   

  On 12/6/2021 at 5:36 PM, ccap41 said:

They said SOLVE. That is a permanent resolution to fixing world hunger. 

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Didnt say solve. Re-read your own quote.

But regardless...

YOU didnt even read MY point of view. 

It really is NOT about solving ALL poverty. Its about helping. 

Spending hundreds of billions of dollars going to MArs in helping humanity hundreds of years from now on a fairly tale extinction scenario that is actually helping out that fairly tale to come true versus helping humans in the here and now...

You dont see the hypocrisy? 

We can just agree to disagree. I don't think it is unfair to ask exactly how the money would be spent, considering you're (David Beasley) telling me (Musk) I need to be spending it in the first place. 

  On 12/6/2021 at 5:57 PM, ccap41 said:

We can just agree to disagree. I don't think it is unfair to ask exactly how the money would be spent, considering you're (David Beasley) telling me (Musk) I need to be spending it in the first place. 

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NOT about that.

its about Musk telling ME that I need to be saved from a fairy tale extinction scenario where hundreds of billion of dollars are spent but 5 or 6 billion for a few souls save in the here and now is a no go because we cant save all humans.  Yet spending hundreds of billions saving all humans from a fairy tale hundreds of years from now is the right way to spend. 

 I never asked you to agree with me. Just told you how I feel about Musk. And I think he is a hypocrite... 

PS: I dont care how he spends his money. I just think he is a...hypocrite. 

There's no reason you couldn't have taken the lead and continued the program you were working for or created your own. Don't let politics stop you from your charitable donations. 

IE:  his words dont fool me. I see through him.  I see his...hypocrisy 

  On 12/6/2021 at 6:05 PM, ccap41 said:

There's no reason you couldn't have taken the lead and continued the program you were working for or created your own. Don't let politics stop you from your charitable donations. 

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Who said I didnt continue on?

I said the government program stopped.  Who told you I stopped helping people in my community? 

  On 12/6/2021 at 6:06 PM, oldshurst442 said:

Who said I didnt continue on?

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You. 

  On 12/6/2021 at 5:10 PM, oldshurst442 said:

I and other managers/owners dont save all kids, but we do are darndest to help them. Our time and effort trying to help our community as much as we can.   Because of Covid, this program is on hiatus. 

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@ccap41

You have a reading comprehension problem?

I said the program is on hiatus.

Where does it say that I stopped helping people in my community?

I hope you realize that you do not have a 'gotcha' moment.  THAT is how you operate.  Yoy troll with 'gotcha' monents.

Grow up! 

  On 12/6/2021 at 5:10 PM, oldshurst442 said:

to which the Tesla shares pay DIVIDENDS

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Tesla stock pays no dividends.

  On 12/6/2021 at 10:27 PM, balthazar said:

Tesla stock pays no dividends.

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I know. Read further...

Tesla delivered nearly 1 million cars in 2021.

They also recalled nearly half-a-million due to some major safety flubs regarding cameras and their sensors of their Model 3 and S that, over time due to wear and tear, the cables of the camera harness might damage over time and hinder the functionality of, causing accidents.  As we know, electronics today play a wildly huge percentage of our accident avoidance awareness and that seems like an expensive fix for Tesla, due to the fact that there is a chip shortage and all.  Wires and cables and chips involved in this recall.  500 000 cars...   They have a hard time producing these things to begin with, now they are laced with repairing half-a-million of them ON TOP of trying to produce the same amount cars sold...

Ive said this before in this thread.  Tesla is mostly Tesla's biggest threat for survival...

The Hyundai Ioniq 5 is just about Tesla Model Y money. Just about the same size too, Im guessing. Dont really care too much for either vehicle so Im not about to compare their sizes.  But no matter how shytty I think Hyundai is, I think its safe to say that Hyundai has got its shyte together well enough NOT to be recalling half-a-million EV vehicles barely a decade in from now...  Besides, Hyundai CAN mass produce more efficiently and more quickly than Tesla can.   Even though Hyundai was utter garbage JUST 15 years ago.   The rabid-ness of these Tesla fanbois might just wane off when  others start producing better EVs?   GM had the same rabid-ness going for them.  It disappeared faster for GM for less shyte it seems...