Tesla Decides Model S Isn't Fast Enough, Announces P100D

That is amazingly fast.  A Formula 1 car does 0-60 in 1.9 seconds, a Ferrari LaFerrari does it in 2.4.  This is a 4 door sedan road car doing it in 2.5, that's incredible.

Im impressed. 21/2 seconds. Wow.

But there is another number that Im even more impressed with.

315.

With all perfect conditions I imagine, but 315 non-the-less.

That would be practically a non-stop drive from Montreal to Boston in an all electric vehicle. A tad short from what a fossil fuel car does.

Well folk, get this range on a family car price and say good-bye to the fossil fuel automobile even with the current charging infrastructure system in place...at least in the States and Provinces that are electric car tolerant...

The real issue here is Tesla keeps fixing things that are not an issue. The car has had more than enough 0-60 than any one owner will ever need in this type car. 

The things that need addressed like more charigng stations and faster charge times to where you do not have to go kill time while it charges on a trip is what they really need. 

Until they get a Full Charge time that can be done just about anywhere in the time it takes to pump 18 gallons 0-60 means little. 

Also they need to work on price. The 3 is far from a car just anyone can afford. By the time options are added it will be pushing $55-60K

Chevy at least with the Bolt will be pretty much optioned out accept for Leather and a few options and will come no where near $60K. 

One other thing Tesla needs to address is bringing new product not just faster to market but at least on time. They have failed repeatedly here and if it were not for their disciples they would not be given the free pass they have been given. 

The lower 0-60 times make for great web hype but it like many other things Musk does distracts from the real issues. 

The truth be said any Electric motored powered car can  be very fast as that is the nature of the electric motor. The torque is instant and flat. I am shocked no one has taken a Volt and played with the programming to make it launch like a bastard too. I assume we will see this at some point when the hot rod crowd starts to play with them. GM has not done it as they have not needed the cheap publicity. 

You're not forced to add 20-25k in options on the Tesla. 

They're still expanding their charge network and improving the technology for reduced charge times. 

If it keeps the rich people lusting for the more expensive Tesla, we may just see the Model 3 arrive according to YOUR timetable hyper, and priced aggressively.

The Bolt has zero anything yet. No pre-orders, and no brand equity. It'll probably make the Volt redundant. But it's still a start, and I like the range it offers and the practicality, but little else.

10 hours ago, hyperv6 said:

The real issue here is Tesla keeps fixing things that are not an issue. The car has had more than enough 0-60 than any one owner will ever need in this type car. 

hahaha okay, and i'm sure your opinion applies equally to each and every other automaker. I bet you're popular with Hellcat owners.

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The things that need addressed like more charigng stations and faster charge times to where you do not have to go kill time while it charges on a trip is what they really need. 

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Until they get a Full Charge time that can be done just about anywhere in the time it takes to pump 18 gallons 0-60 means little. 

yeah and people buying superfast tesla's helps fuel the development

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Also they need to work on price. The 3 is far from a car just anyone can afford. By the time options are added it will be pushing $55-60K

 

wow! a luxury car that costs money! shocking! 

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Chevy at least with the Bolt will be pretty much optioned out accept for Leather and a few options and will come no where near $60K. 

 

the Bolt competes against the Leaf, not the Model 3 and isn't a RWD, performance oriented car. do you compare the Honda Fit against a 3 Series? because that'd be dumb. 

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One other thing Tesla needs to address is bringing new product not just faster to market but at least on time. They have failed repeatedly here and if it were not for their disciples they would not be given the free pass they have been given. 

 

tesla doesn't have disciples, it has fans and satisfied customers. you're just unfamiliar these concepts because GM doesn't have much of either lol!

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I assume we will see this at some point when the hot rod crowd starts to play with them. GM has not done it as they have not needed the cheap publicity. 

no they HAVEN'T done it because they GM has ZERO comparable vehicles right now.

The Model S gets just more and popular as it ages...

That is kinda the reverse flow of how it is in the fossil fuel automobile world. The people buying the Model S seem to be relishing at the fact that it is indeed getting faster. While getting more range. Funny Mr. Fapturbo that you mentioned the Hellcat as muscle car fans, enthusiasts, is exactly what they are expecting of their muscle cars. Vette, Mustang and Camaro owner/fans too.

Faster, better, more efficient all the while still having a passion for the car, the brand and the nameplate.  That is what is happening at Tesla with the Model S. The Tesla Model S has become an Impala SS, a Pontiac GTO, A Ford Mustang, a BMW M3...It is an icon.

The Model S HAS to keep on achieving ludicrous speed in order to dominate the sales charts of cars costing $100 000, which in turn will fuel sales of the Model3 and  advance the charging infrastructure...

GM once had that from the 1950s all the way to the 1970s, even the 1980s.

Let us not be pissy just because Tesla found their groove and is emulating GM in that regard. (to have a loyal following that EXPECT their beloved GM cars to keep on blowing their minds each and every new generation!) GM is the one to fumble the ball.

Tesla was not even the one to pick it up. Tesla is a brand new team. An expansion team that so far, has made all the right draft choices and trades and is kicking ass in the standings, awaiting their first championship.

Fans are in the stands, the team itself still has to pay off its high falutin stadium, and yes, the stadium used city funds to be built, but dividends will eventually show. Anyway, the city prides itself with Tesla's colours and Tesla  is a fabric of the city and vice versa  Sure, not quite the Dallas Cowboys with 5 Superbowl vistories or New York Yankees 27 World Series or Montreal Canadiens 24 Stanley Cups being proudly flaunted but they certainly are a contender to win their first.

19 hours ago, FAPTurbo said:

hahaha okay, and i'm sure your opinion applies equally to each and every other automaker. I bet you're popular with Hellcat owners.

 

yeah and people buying superfast tesla's helps fuel the development

wow! a luxury car that costs money! shocking! 

the Bolt competes against the Leaf, not the Model 3 and isn't a RWD, performance oriented car. do you compare the Honda Fit against a 3 Series? because that'd be dumb. 

tesla doesn't have disciples, it has fans and satisfied customers. you're just unfamiliar these concepts because GM doesn't have much of either lol!

no they HAVEN'T done it because they GM has ZERO comparable vehicles right now.

The real issue here is Tesla keeps fixing things that are not an issue. The car has had more than enough 0-60 than any one owner will ever need in this type car. 

The things that need addressed like more charigng stations and faster charge times to where you do not have to go kill time while it charges on a trip is what they really need. 

Until they get a Full Charge time that can be done just about anywhere in the time it takes to pump 18 gallons 0-60 means little. 

Also they need to work on price. The 3 is far from a car just anyone can afford. By the time options are added it will be pushing $55-60K

Chevy at least with the Bolt will be pretty much optioned out accept for Leather and a few options and will come no where near $60K. 

One other thing Tesla needs to address is bringing new product not just faster to market but at least on time. They have failed repeatedly here and if it were not for their disciples they would not be given the free pass they have been given. 

The lower 0-60 times make for great web hype but it like many other things Musk does distracts from the real issues. 

The truth be said any Electric motored powered car can  be very fast as that is the nature of the electric motor. The torque is instant and flat. I am shocked no one has taken a Volt and played with the programming to make it launch like a bastard too. I assume we will see this at some point when the hot rod crowd starts to play with them. GM has not done it as they have not needed the cheap publicity. 

Cut the crap and answer in a complete thought. 

Yes my opinion applies to any and every electric car out there. The damn thing is not a sports car and it is a car to appeal to those who are anti gas. It is more than fast enough for now and has other needs like better range and faster charge times. Just tweaking the software to apply more power faster is not really a big deal unless you want cheap headlines. 

Sure it may be faster than a 488 Ferrari but it is still not a Ferrari and you are missing the best part the sound. Hey the Hellcat is just buying time for Chrysler with a very old outdated car no one even used in comparisons anymore. At least it sound cool. 

Luxury cars cost money but the MFG generally try not to tell you they are only $35K and 60K when they really cost twice as much. Tesla has for years told us yes you can have one for $60-70K on the S model but if you want the goods it will be twice that or more. They are doing the same thing on the 3 Model. They treat this like Flemmings Steak house with ala  cart on everything. That may work there but not at the car dealer. 

I know what the Bolt competes with but Musk has tried to direct the 3 toward it. Many people think they compete now and they are not even in the same class. Even Musk has admitted he lied about the $35K. 

Tesla has disciples that would ca-strait themselves if Musk asked them to. Most love to argue the car but odds are most will never even own one because they can not afford it. As of now we have a great example of a disciple right here thanks to you. 

The bottom line is Tesla is short money behind on sales and slow with new product. They have been late on every car. They are behind on production and are now offering deals to play catch up. If they were selling like Musk likes to claim they would not be making cheaper models and offering discounted leases. He also would not presale a car with no announced production date if he did not need the money. the X model was late and so far has under performances and been a warranty nightmare. The S quality issues are greater now too as they have tried to speed things up. Don't believe it read their web forums.  

The bottom line is Tesla needed the 3 last year and the X 3 years before. The body of the S is growing old and as tired as a Chrysler 300. Yet all they could do is put some face on it from an Alien. 

You can shovel all the crap you like on this but we see the truth as we are not blinded followers. My greatest worry is as much as Tesla has helped promote the acceptance of the Electric car if it fails it will do more damage than it did good in the general public eye. We do not need another Tucker here. 

What great difference is a 4 second 0-60 than a 2.5 one in a family sedan. How often is it really needed compared to a 8 min  full charge or another 100 mile range? I think you will find true advancements like these are more of what it will take to attract new converts. The car is already damn fast now fix the thing really in need. 

If Tesla could just lower the cost of a model for the average buyer and fix the charge times and add more range they could even make a profit. Profits are good for longevity as it stands now time is ticking and they are living hand to mouth to survive with their cash flow. 

I suspect when the other expensive sedans hit the market the S will struggle. Tesla needs to get the rest of their lines out of Musks head and in the customers hands.  Once the Porsche and others are hear the market will shrink for them in a very significant way. The key is the others do not live only on electric products so the pressure is off. Tesla will struggle with only one type of car and with customers that will have many other interesting choices. 

You don't think a Porsche electric sedan? Who ever thought they would sell a 6,000 SUV in the numbers they are selling? 

On 8/28/2016 at 4:26 PM, ccap41 said:

You're not forced to add 20-25k in options on the Tesla. 

They're still expanding their charge network and improving the technology for reduced charge times. 

No one is forced but if you want anything good in the car you are forced to add many options that normally are standard on most other luxury cars. It is the same game Benz plays in Europe. They low ball the price and ala carte the options. In the end it adds up fast. 

Network expansion still has a long way to go and it has slowed. The Battery Swap fantasy has gone away. As for technology they all are working on it but yet no major gains have been made. Small but they all have yet to strike the big hit. Cost and charging times are the biggest hurtles to all makers and the one who cracks the code will gain the largest share gain. 

16 minutes ago, hyperv6 said:

No one is forced but if you want anything good in the car you are forced to add many options that normally are standard on most other luxury cars. It is the same game Benz plays in Europe. They low ball the price and ala carte the options. In the end it adds up fast. 

Network expansion still has a long way to go and it has slowed. The Battery Swap fantasy has gone away. As for technology they all are working on it but yet no major gains have been made. Small but they all have yet to strike the big hit. Cost and charging times are the biggest hurtles to all makers and the one who cracks the code will gain the largest share gain. 

The Germans, like you said, play that game, same with Ferrari.

It is a game plan that works well for high priced, high profile brands. Not so much for the Chevys and Toyotas of this world. Tesla knows its customer base well and it serves their price strategy just right as there is a high demand for their cars. Cadillac on the other hand, needs to package their trim levels better so they dont get stuck with unsold cars on the lot and then discounting them.

Hyper, you make it see like this pricing strategy that Tesla is going with is a bad thing. It is only a bad thing if customers are not willing to spend their money on all the little things...I figure you see this as nickel and dime-ing people. Well, it could very well be that, but people are WILLING to be nickel and dimed. That is how powerful the Tesla, Porsche, Ferrari brand is....and a few others of course.

The network is slowing down?

Whatever....it wont be too necessary in the near future....Bob Lutz had this to say in a Corvette question/answer period of all things at RoadandTrack:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a29598/bob-lutz-mid-engine-vette/

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Will world governments and the automobile sector ever reach an agreement on creating an actual infrastructure of hydrogen and electric stations for those who wish to embrace these environmentally friendly technologies?

Rick Trnka Winnipeg, Manitoba

 

BOB LUTZ ANSWER:

Probably not in our lifetime. Hydrogen is especially tough to transport and prevent boil-off. Electric vehicles will eventually be charged through embedded inductive rails in the freeway. Affordable EVs will have ranges of 400 to 500 miles in 10 years, obviating the need for a dense network of charging stations. Even with "quick charge" times of 25 to 30 minutes, several EVs showing up at once means someone will have to wait a few hours. That's hard to overcome. (I hear stories of Volt owners in charging queues being told to "buzz off; you've got gas" by the pure-EV owners.)

He raises another problem though regarding Chevy Volt owners that may help you on your side of the argument though...

The swapping battery fantasy has come and gone...well....the flying car fantasy has also become a myth...such is life with the automobile world. Many promises come and go in this domain.

Who said that Tesla is fixing the quarter mile times that dont need to be fixed?

THAT is YOUR take on it....

REALITY is that Tesla IMPROVING their performance aspects of their sports sedan is no different from any other car manufacturer making their sports sedans or coupes faster. I guess Corvette fans should not have expected their C4 Vette to gain a LT5 or LT1 let alone all the performance advances 3 generations later!!! They should have been happy when the Crossfire V8 hitting 250HP....HEY! that was a helluva lot more horses than the smog era C3 right?  And the 1979 C3 if I remember correctly hit some sales milestones...

PLUS....315 miles on the P100. That is also an improvement...

The Model S WONT struggle to sell....

WHY?

Because the Model S has ALWAYS improved. Speed and range...

315 miles.

0-60 in 2.9 seconds...

PORSCHE, M-B, BMW all have a HELLUVA LOOOOOONG WAY TO GO BEFORE THEY EVEN REACH 3-4 year old Tesla Model S P60s let alone the P100...

2 hours ago, hyperv6 said:

words

12 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Who said that Tesla is fixing the quarter mile times that dont need to be fixed?

THAT is YOUR take on it....

REALITY is that Tesla IMPROVING their performance aspects of their sports sedan is no different from any other car manufacturer making their sports sedans or coupes faster. I guess Corvette fans should not have expected their C4 Vette to gain a LT5 or LT1 let alone all the performance advances 3 generations later!!! They should have been happy when the Crossfire V8 hitting 250HP....HEY! that was a helluva lot more horses than the smog era C3 right?  And the 1979 C3 if I remember correctly hit some sales milestones...

PLUS....315 miles on the P100. That is also an improvement...

The Model S WONT struggle to sell....

WHY?

Because the Model S has ALWAYS improved. Speed and range...

315 miles.

0-60 in 2.9 seconds...

 

PORSCHE, M-B, BMW all have a HELLUVA LOOOOOONG WAY TO GO BEFORE THEY EVEN REACH 3-4 year old Tesla Model S P60s let alone the P100...

Here is the deal. the Corvette is a Sports car and is expected to increase performance. It is not built to save the world and it is not tethered to a system of charging stations that are far from everywhere.  it has a sole purpose to go fast and handle nothing more.

the S sedan is a sedan it is not a race car, It handles ok but is limited to even how many laps it could make with out depleting the power.

It's soul intent it to change the way people see and use electric cars. It matter little what sedan it is but do you really need a 2.5 0-60 in any sedan? It is not like you really need it in daily driving. 3.5-4.0 will do about anything you need. Most electric cars with some software changes could do the same as this is the nature of electric motors.

What is really needed is to fix the issues on the electric car that limits sales and appeal to the average buyer. That is the recharging times, locations and price.

Selling a high priced electric car is not really a challenge anymore Musk did prove there was a segment for it when many did not believe. Now that it is there he has still failed to address where it is difficult to go. He talks about it a lot but just never gets there. GM has moved on the Volt to make it cheaper and better. The Bolt will see the same as will the products from other makers soon.

2.5 is great but there are much more important things that are needed at Tesla and they have yet to address it.

Just because some of the folks like to be distracted with don't look at my right hand but watch what I have in my left mentality Musk will continue to have his way with some folks playing them. He is a master at showmanship and distraction. We have not see this as well done since PT Barnum.

At some point this will catch up to him or he will sell out before it crashes. The business plan he has now is just not sustainable as it is. At some point the money is just not going to be there to continue the rate of development he needs to keep things alive. Government funding will also run out too.

12 hours ago, hyperv6 said:

No one is forced but if you want anything good in the car you are forced to add many options that normally are standard on most other luxury cars. It is the same game Benz plays in Europe. They low ball the price and ala carte the options. In the end it adds up fast. 

Network expansion still has a long way to go and it has slowed. The Battery Swap fantasy has gone away. As for technology they all are working on it but yet no major gains have been made. Small but they all have yet to strike the big hit. Cost and charging times are the biggest hurtles to all makers and the one who cracks the code will gain the largest share gain. 

Do you already know their packaging for the Model 3? It might not be as bad as you think. We know larger batteries and all wheel drive will quickly drive the price up(and driving range). The jumps from battery packs and AWD alone are massive on the Model S.

60kWh -> 75kWh = $8500

60kWh RWD -> AWD = $5000

Base model -> 75kWh AWD = $13,500

There aren't a whole ton of options that jack the price sky high other than batteries and AWD. Yes, there are cold weather packages, their nifty air suspension, and then their Premium package but other than that Autopilot has been said it will be standard on the Model 3.

Premium Package= $3000(most of this is junk like HEPA air filtration, LED interior lighting, lighted door handles...)

Air Suspension= $2500

Cold Weather= $1000

Point being... They don't come stripped down and there isn't really a reason one must assume a 20-25k option list is a must on a Model 3.

Lets take the prices CCAP has listed, 

Tesla 3 - $35,000

Battery Option - $8,500

AWD Option - $5,000

Premium Package $3,000

Air Suspension $2,500

Cold Weather Package $1,000

Total Tesla Price - $55,000 for an AWD Electric with 300 mile range and the rest of the goodies.

It will sell if this is what they offer, but it will also be put up against the Bolt and VW 225 mile range EV they are showing at Paris auto show.

Interesting is that VW is saying a 15 min charge time for their new EV. Based on their 800 volt charging system that is going into the Porsche Mission E.

To quote:

" Speaking to German newspaper WirtschaftWoche (Industry and Economy Week) recently, Volkswagen chairman Herbert Diess said the car would have the outside dimensions of the Golf but offer the interior space of the larger Passat. It will be the first car built on the company’s latest MEB chassis, specifically designed for all electric cars like the BUDD-e concept that appeared at the Consumer Electronics Show last January. Diess says it should be market ready in late 2018 or early 2019. "

Full story here: VW electric story

Interesting is the Autocar story that is saying VW is realigning their whole company to focus on alternative energy auto's and will allow them to focus on Hybrids and EVs having the most of any company by 2020.

Autocar Story

I probably should have clarified as well that each battery jump is NOT equal.

60kWh -> 75kWh = $8500

75kWh -> 90kWh = $15,000

90kWh -> 100kWh = $43,000(But this also gives no RWD option, only AWD)

On 8/28/2016 at 11:06 PM, Suaviloquent said:

If it keeps the rich people lusting for the more expensive Tesla, we may just see the Model 3 arrive according to YOUR timetable hyper, and priced aggressively.

 

The Bolt has zero anything yet. No pre-orders, and no brand equity. It'll probably make the Volt redundant. But it's still a start, and I like the range it offers and the practicality, but little else.

It will do just fine I think. GM is giving it good range, and the automotive market is changing rapidly.

9 hours ago, ccap41 said:

I probably should have clarified as well that each battery jump is NOT equal.

60kWh -> 75kWh = $8500

75kWh -> 90kWh = $15,000

90kWh -> 100kWh = $43,000(But this also gives no RWD option, only AWD)

Would love to spend forty three grand this way.

1 hour ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Would love to spend forty three grand this way.

Hahaha right?! Pretty absurd price jump if you ask me.. But they must know people are willing to pay the difference.

10 hours ago, ccap41 said:

Hahaha right?! Pretty absurd price jump if you ask me.. But they must know people are willing to pay the difference.

Those customers are the ones with little itty bitty wee wee and so need to make up for it by being able to go 0-60 in 2.5 seconds. After all once they shoot their electric load they are done, nothing more.

1 minute ago, dfelt said:

Those customers are the ones with little itty bitty wee wee and so need to make up for it by being able to go 0-60 in 2.5 seconds. After all once they shoot their electric load they are done, nothing more.

I'm curious what kind of range depletion there is when you go balls out for just 1 0-60 run or 1/4 mile pass in a car like this.

2 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I'm curious what kind of range depletion there is when you go balls out for just 1 0-60 run or 1/4 mile pass in a car like this.

Agreed, I would also love to know just how much of a hit the Ludicrous mode takes on the battery.

16 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I'm curious what kind of range depletion there is when you go balls out for just 1 0-60 run or 1/4 mile pass in a car like this.

OK, Had to go find this and sure enough on their Forum about Ludicrous mode they do chat about battery hit. If I am reading the forum right, each 0-60 Ludicrous mode run take 13% of the battery.

https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/ludicrous-mode-there-more-room-improve-acceleration

So that means you get 7 runs at 0-60 before you have 9% battery left to limp over to the Supercharger and recharge.

Also found this how the Tesla stands up against the other supercars in price and performance. Pretty Sweet, great Bang for the Buck!

Just realized that BMW made it on the list but not MB. Guess the AMG label is not able to break 4 seconds in a 0-60 run in a 4 door sedan.

Interesting to know that, great find!

I wonder if that 13% includes the regeneration from getting back down to pedestrian speeds. I know it's kind of splitting hairs at that point.. but not really as it's an electric vehicle that you can't just go to the gas station just outside of the track to fill up for the drive home.

I also think that scale should say "hundred thousands" not just "thousands" at the bottom. It's a misleading graph as-is.

What if the owners/operators of the speed tracks get a Tesla supercharger two at the track itself?

Food for thought..

You know....charging a Tesla after ludicrous quarter mile passes aint that big of a deal when some cars use the same amount of time to cool off...

I couldnt find a better pic, but it is common for turbo cars to sit out a couple of runs with ice bags on the intercooler to cool off to have better runs...

So....In my personal opinion, battery loss is a non-issue when in ludicrous mode at a race track.

It may be an issue on the open road and your foot is heavier than usual and your anticipated and calculated  range  falls short...

On 8/30/2016 at 9:43 AM, ccap41 said:

Do you already know their packaging for the Model 3? It might not be as bad as you think. We know larger batteries and all wheel drive will quickly drive the price up(and driving range). The jumps from battery packs and AWD alone are massive on the Model S.

60kWh -> 75kWh = $8500

60kWh RWD -> AWD = $5000

Base model -> 75kWh AWD = $13,500

There aren't a whole ton of options that jack the price sky high other than batteries and AWD. Yes, there are cold weather packages, their nifty air suspension, and then their Premium package but other than that Autopilot has been said it will be standard on the Model 3.

Premium Package= $3000(most of this is junk like HEPA air filtration, LED interior lighting, lighted door handles...)

Air Suspension= $2500

Cold Weather= $1000

Point being... They don't come stripped down and there isn't really a reason one must assume a 20-25k option list is a must on a Model 3.

Pricing percentage increases will be along the lines of the S. 

No one knows the pricing as they have yet to finish the car and even Musk stated the base price he said was not going to hold. He alreasy has stated it would be over $40k to start. 

Then you have to factor in what year is begins production. Is it next year? The year after? 

As for pricing it is not my opinion but most market people have already outlined what is to be expected. Tesla has a record of never coming in under prices or on time so you can see where it coming from. 

Most of their cars sold are top models not stripped down models. Most are AWD and most people opt for the best battery and would you not? 

The S is more of a status symbol for most buyers and they load them up just as if they were buying a Bentley or Ferrari. Not many average buyers are in the fold and while the 3 may move the bar down it will only reach upper middle class at best. 

Tesla really needs volume and to complete Musk promise of an affordable car to the average buyer. As it is now  he just can not do it as he is barely hanging on to what he has. S sales will go down if he does not change the car. The X is under performing and will need to be addressed soon. They faster they lose the doors the better. But I am not sure how easy that would be. Lets face it he has gotten off easy here as If GM has done these doors the media would have crucified them. Same for being late on the X and 3 models too. 

He has done a hell of a marketing job and proved there is a segment in the higher range. The question is when the others arrive will he last as he has nothing else to fall back on as volume decline. Many in these clique markets move on once things become old and tired. A Porsche or other high end electric can replace this pretty fast and they do not have to show a profit on the car as they make it up on the SUV that has doors that work and an even larger image with their friends. 

$1000 for cold weather? That should be standard to any car. 

Hell now they even going to start charging for the Super Chargers here and I expect the other cars will follow at some point in the future. 

50 minutes ago, hyperv6 said:

Pricing percentage increases will be along the lines of the S. 

No one knows the pricing as they have yet to finish the car and even Musk stated the base price he said was not going to hold. He alreasy has stated it would be over $40k to start. 

Then you have to factor in what year is begins production. Is it next year? The year after? 

As for pricing it is not my opinion but most market people have already outlined what is to be expected. Tesla has a record of never coming in under prices or on time so you can see where it coming from. 

Most of their cars sold are top models not stripped down models. Most are AWD and most people opt for the best battery and would you not? 

The S is more of a status symbol for most buyers and they load them up just as if they were buying a Bentley or Ferrari. Not many average buyers are in the fold and while the 3 may move the bar down it will only reach upper middle class at best. 

Tesla really needs volume and to complete Musk promise of an affordable car to the average buyer. As it is now  he just can not do it as he is barely hanging on to what he has. S sales will go down if he does not change the car. The X is under performing and will need to be addressed soon. They faster they lose the doors the better. But I am not sure how easy that would be. Lets face it he has gotten off easy here as If GM has done these doors the media would have crucified them. Same for being late on the X and 3 models too. 

He has done a hell of a marketing job and proved there is a segment in the higher range. The question is when the others arrive will he last as he has nothing else to fall back on as volume decline. Many in these clique markets move on once things become old and tired. A Porsche or other high end electric can replace this pretty fast and they do not have to show a profit on the car as they make it up on the SUV that has doors that work and an even larger image with their friends. 

 

$1000 for cold weather? That should be standard to any car. 

Hell now they even going to start charging for the Super Chargers here and I expect the other cars will follow at some point in the future. 

 

I think they're getting away with it because of what the are, EV. There really isn't competition out yet(Bolt VERY shortly but still no S competitor). So that gives them the leeway on the delays and delays and delays oh and the quirky doors. I'd definitely want to go with AWD here because it adds some range as well. 8 miles to the 60kWh battery and10 miles to the 75kWhr battery. It isn't much but between snow and performance I'd want it. Worth 5k..? Doubtful.

I'm curious what the cost is to buy the 60kWh battery and upgrade to the 75kWh battery because it says, "upgrade to the 75kWh battery at any time" on their page when building the 60kWh.

$1000 for a cold weather package isn't anything new because not every car comes with heated seats, heated steering wheel, wiper blade defroster, and heated washer fluid jets. That doesn't come standard on any car, even the S Class. Heck it's $645 for a Focus to add heated seats, steering wheel, mirrors, and floor mats.

Yeah they're charging for the Supercharging stations on the 3 unless you buy the package. No word on the package's price yet, as far as I know. Depending on the price I don't see a problem with either charging them at the station or paying upfront for it. I would likely not pay for it unless I was a traveler. I'd just charge at home.  

10 hours ago, ccap41 said:

I think they're getting away with it because of what the are, EV. There really isn't competition out yet(Bolt VERY shortly but still no S competitor). So that gives them the leeway on the delays and delays and delays oh and the quirky doors. I'd definitely want to go with AWD here because it adds some range as well. 8 miles to the 60kWh battery and10 miles to the 75kWhr battery. It isn't much but between snow and performance I'd want it. Worth 5k..? Doubtful.

I'm curious what the cost is to buy the 60kWh battery and upgrade to the 75kWh battery because it says, "upgrade to the 75kWh battery at any time" on their page when building the 60kWh.

$1000 for a cold weather package isn't anything new because not every car comes with heated seats, heated steering wheel, wiper blade defroster, and heated washer fluid jets. That doesn't come standard on any car, even the S Class. Heck it's $645 for a Focus to add heated seats, steering wheel, mirrors, and floor mats.

Yeah they're charging for the Supercharging stations on the 3 unless you buy the package. No word on the package's price yet, as far as I know. Depending on the price I don't see a problem with either charging them at the station or paying upfront for it. I would likely not pay for it unless I was a traveler. I'd just charge at home.  

Tesla just has a lot to still do to get to where they are going to be stable. The cash flow issues will remain a problem for a good while as they need the income from the 3 and it will take them a while to get it up and in production as well get caught up on order they will still have left after the delay. 

Could be worse they could be SpaceX. 

How would you like to be told you will be in a SpaceX rocket going to the space station? 

Time for Elon now to talk/deflect  Hypertube again. 

 HyperTube, the ultimate stage left move to distract peeps!

25 minutes ago, dfelt said:

 HyperTube, the ultimate stage left move to distract peeps!

 

HyperTube? The ultimate stage left move to distract peeps?

What does have to do with distracting peeps? He is quite the informed poster most of the time. And Ive read his posts, he is far from having left moves. He is as right as one could get...

OH!!!!

HyperTube!!!!

Not hyperv6!!!